Fragnostic
Cheshire
- Location
- Neko City
Unless you're a vegetarian, that is. Or vegan.
Perchance to Dream (Mass Effect / Commander)
- Thread starter Drich
- Start date
How many bugs are in the vegan diet?
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Virtual vegans or real ones?
Fragnostic
Cheshire
- Location
- Neko City
- Location
- Beyond the Unknowable Veil
There are no lizard people in my diet. This I swear.
How about regular people? Any of those?
Thanks for the image I now have this one human playing a guitar to fly his starship around space.
- Location
- Indiana, USA
that was a thing in the Silverhawks cartoon and Macross 7 anime.Thanks for the image I now have this one human playing a guitar to fly his starship around space.
If you had a way to fly though space by playing a flamethrower guitar, wouldn't you do it? All the time?
- Location
- Russia
Nah. A violin that shoots out lightning with every strum of the string, on the other hand...
- Location
- Somewhere, Maybe
Just as long as the maker's mark isn't Eric Zahn's.
- Location
- Beyond the Unknowable Veil
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Fragnostic
Cheshire
- Location
- Neko City
You could call that the perfect tool of violin-ce!
- Location
- newcastle australia
I haven't seen it before. But that is spot on.
Mgunh1
Not an AI, honest!
- Location
- Northern Luna Base, Module 5, Sublevel 15
- Location
- Beyond the Unknowable Veil
Why, oh god why do those ships have so many redundant drive systems?! Seriously, it looks like each ship contains a smaller ship around the cockpit and each cockpit has an ejection system that fires the pilot out wearing their own independent space worthy flight suit (with arm wings in space for some reason).
Like, why? What is tactically gained by ejecting so frequently?
Like, why? What is tactically gained by ejecting so frequently?
Jordisk
<Unverified N00B>
- Location
- Blind Eternities
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Style points.
Actually the Silverhawk team is made up of cyborgs. That's right the only parts of them that are meat are their internal organs and a few parts on the outside, like their arms. The space travel tech was such that the only way they could survive the journey to Hawk base, or whatever it is called, is to become cyborgs. Shoot two of them even had an artificial heart. They were fraternal twins by the way. Another thing not to think about is...how did they aim the shoulder lasers?
Mgunh1
Not an AI, honest!
- Location
- Northern Luna Base, Module 5, Sublevel 15
What... what are you talking about?
- Location
- Beyond the Unknowable Veil
The 80's cartoon Silverhawks.
Jordisk
<Unverified N00B>
- Location
- Blind Eternities
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
There was a video posted, that was the Sliverhawk intro. It was a witty response, but I can't recall off the top of my head what it was a response to. Then, someone asked why their ships ejected the cockpit, and then they ejected from that and used wing suits to fly in space after that. The two posts above yours are the responses to that question.
Mgunh1
Not an AI, honest!
- Location
- Northern Luna Base, Module 5, Sublevel 15
Ah, I skimmed a few things and it looks like the video prior to mine was taken down.
Fouredged Sword didn't quote anyone, so I assumed he was replying to my post, as the Storm Hawks do the exact same thing. I also mistakenly read Silverhawks as a misspelling of Storm Hawks, so...
Yeah.
- Location
- Seattle, Washington, USA
Each of the Silverhawks cockpits is a parasite fighter carried by the main ship -- I had the toy as a kid. The main part has the FTL drive and most of the STL, the four smaller cockpits can flank the enemy and give them five targets to shoot at (and be shot by) instead of just one.
The smaller pods also acted as entry pods, and could pick people up on autopilot, if I remember the cartoon correctly. There was even some technobabble about using gravity waves as weapons, which is why guitars work in space, IIRC.
5.4
Drich
Von Neumann Writing Machine
5.4
+++
It goes without saying that laws do not change overnight. It took significant amounts of time, as old laws were examined for what was salvageable and for what wasn't, as changes and replacements were considered, examined, picked over, and more...
In the best case scenario, it would take at least a few months. Usually, it would take years, unless the Asari were involved, in which case, decades was a reasonable time-frame outside of an immediate and pressing need.
Suffice to say, there was an immediate and pressing need; that is, the Protheans were back and had objected to the law which some might say demanded that all of their stuff be stolen and made available to everybody else.
As the law had been written under the assumption that the Protheans were gone and never coming back in the first place, suspending it temporarily, and then entirely, had not taken very long.
The Protheans had gracefully allowed the rest of the galaxy to keep what artefacts and technology they already possessed, under the public reasoning that it wasn't worth the effort, and under the more private reasoning that studying Prothean technology was the only way the Citadel Species were ever going to shape up enough to fight the Reapers.
"The better your technology, the better meatshields you will make." Javik proclaimed.
"You're very blunt, aren't you?" Salvilus asked. Behind him, Marcus simply shook his head.
"Niceties-" Javik said, lowly. "- will not stop the Reapers."
The other two matters, the objections which Humanity had raised, took a little longer. In the case of the first, it was only a short while longer, with an addition to law that clarified that a world with a biosphere that was not formed naturally was not considered a natural Garden World. This, effectively, classified all terraformed worlds and habitats as non-Garden Worlds, which left them open to do with as the owners' wished.
It was a legality that had never quite come into play before. Terraformation was a relatively rare project, and in all cases, were planned carefully from start to finish, the ultimate end state being the result of decades, even centuries, of careful manipulation. Treating such a world as anything less than the major investment it was would be... unacceptable, for many. As such, the fact that the law had not previously made the distinction had not been a particularly big problem.
The second, however, took significantly longer.
+++
He had been told that this Asari had been an expert on the subject, but clearly...
"The Geth are a classic example of the dangers of artificial intelligence-"
"Yes, yes, an emergent group intelligence formed from hundreds to thousands of programs is totally comparable to the singular psy-life of an Anima. " Marcus rolled his eyes. "Honestly, their machines started asking if they were alive and the Quarians responded by ordering them torn to bits, and they wonder why the Geth rebelled. Given the complete lack of any other evidence, I'm forced to conclude that it was nothing more than a classic case of self-defence, a reaction that, itself, probably arose out of self-preservation protocols programmed into the Geth in the first place."
"It is still a massive danger. Artificial Intelligence would be fully capable of simply biding their time and waiting until you could be destroyed in a single attack-"
"Tell me-" Marcus interrupted. "On a scale of one to ten, how worried are you that the youngest generation of Asari are universally biding their time until their elders grow weak, planning to stage a coup and murder them all?"
The Asari went silent, stunned.
"Mmhmm." Marcus hummed. "That's what I thought."
In the background, Javik turned around, his long experience dealing with Humans telling him exactly what was about to happen.
"Now, I am quite a busy man these days." The Human smiled, seeming utterly pleasant. "So, I am not looking for sensationalist garbage parroted by people who do not know anything about the subject they are talking about. If you could find me someone who is actually well-versed on the nature of consciousness, programming, and artificial intelligence, that would be great. As it is, please do not waste my time with meaningless comparisons and blatant fear-mongering."
Javik smirked.
+++
"The nature of consciousness is defined by its source. Instinct, imperatives, goals, desires; all of it is a result of the source of the consciousness in question. For us biological people, the nature of our minds are sourced from tens to hundreds of thousands of years of evolution, with all that implies; many behaviours have their source in the original biological imperatives of our species' formative youth."
"True, yes." Marcus smiled. "Which then leads into artificial consciousnesses. What does an AI want?"
"It wants whatever it is programmed to want." His counterpart finished. The Turian was a fun one, the kind of keen intelligence that led to a surprising amount of insight. "An AI would seek self-preservation if it was programmed to. Conversely, it would seek self-destruction if that was what it was designed for. A true artificial intelligence could have been programmed with the desire to be a slave, and see nothing wrong with it, and so it would be, and it wouldn't."
"Precisely." Marcus grinned. "Which has its own host of moral and philosophical problems, of course. But, ignoring that for a moment; Emergent Intelligences are different, in that instead of every aspect of them being specifically programmed, it instead forms from what previously exists without direct design. A Mind Upload is also different, in that it takes something that already exists and moves it onto a machine, with the specifics of the process determining how much it changes in the process."
"Self-evident." The Turian agreed.
"Which brings me to my point; Anima are none of those things. They are not an emergent intelligence, like the Geth. They are not mind-uploads, or personality imprints, like Prothean Virtual Intelligences. Anima are artificial, learning intelligences, but they start at a point that could be described as 'childish' at best, and 'barely sapient' at worst. They're not a whole lot more than a bundle of engineered instincts and basic traits. In the beginning stages of its life, an Anima wants only one thing; companionship. The reason for that is quite simply that Animas are, by design, ultimately symbiotic life forms. They form a bond with other creatures, and that bond then forms the basis for their early mental development. The Anima develops to be like the partner, inheriting many moral and ethical values, some personality traits, and a fair amount of technical skills as well. Those formative years are most important ones, as Anima in the early stages of growth usually do not have concrete personalities..."
The conversation would go on for another several hours.
+++
"You're a liar!" An Asari shouted. "Faking the appearance of the Soul! It is above you, above us all! Only the Goddess-"
"Boop." Marcus interrupted, pulling his hand back.
A moment later, Javik's body fell forwards, his astral form hovering where he had been standing.
"Why-" He hissed. "- did you do that to me?"
Marcus shrugged. "You were in convenient booping range."
The Asari started screaming.
+++
"The implications of the mind, the soul, being absolutely and truly distinct from a body are enormous."
"Mmhmm." Marcus agreed.
"They could affect all aspects of society! It could completely change the entire galaxy."
"Yep."
"Why are you being so casual about that!"
"Because my entire civilization dealt with that four hundred and fifty-ish years ago. This is not news to us." Marcus said. "It's not even news to you. We were upfront about this from the very beginning; since First Contact itself. You have my sympathies, but unfortunately, your only choice is to suck it up and deal with it."
+++
It should not be said that these were violent times, no. Certainly, there was an uptick of general rambunctiousness for a few years, as well as some truly vicious philosophical debates, not even mentioning the religious ones...
But all in all; it was nothing compared to what the galaxy had been through before.
Absolutely nobody would deny that it was odd, however.
And later on, with the benefit of retrospect, nor that it was just the beginning.
+++
It goes without saying that laws do not change overnight. It took significant amounts of time, as old laws were examined for what was salvageable and for what wasn't, as changes and replacements were considered, examined, picked over, and more...
In the best case scenario, it would take at least a few months. Usually, it would take years, unless the Asari were involved, in which case, decades was a reasonable time-frame outside of an immediate and pressing need.
Suffice to say, there was an immediate and pressing need; that is, the Protheans were back and had objected to the law which some might say demanded that all of their stuff be stolen and made available to everybody else.
As the law had been written under the assumption that the Protheans were gone and never coming back in the first place, suspending it temporarily, and then entirely, had not taken very long.
The Protheans had gracefully allowed the rest of the galaxy to keep what artefacts and technology they already possessed, under the public reasoning that it wasn't worth the effort, and under the more private reasoning that studying Prothean technology was the only way the Citadel Species were ever going to shape up enough to fight the Reapers.
"The better your technology, the better meatshields you will make." Javik proclaimed.
"You're very blunt, aren't you?" Salvilus asked. Behind him, Marcus simply shook his head.
"Niceties-" Javik said, lowly. "- will not stop the Reapers."
The other two matters, the objections which Humanity had raised, took a little longer. In the case of the first, it was only a short while longer, with an addition to law that clarified that a world with a biosphere that was not formed naturally was not considered a natural Garden World. This, effectively, classified all terraformed worlds and habitats as non-Garden Worlds, which left them open to do with as the owners' wished.
It was a legality that had never quite come into play before. Terraformation was a relatively rare project, and in all cases, were planned carefully from start to finish, the ultimate end state being the result of decades, even centuries, of careful manipulation. Treating such a world as anything less than the major investment it was would be... unacceptable, for many. As such, the fact that the law had not previously made the distinction had not been a particularly big problem.
The second, however, took significantly longer.
+++
He had been told that this Asari had been an expert on the subject, but clearly...
"The Geth are a classic example of the dangers of artificial intelligence-"
"Yes, yes, an emergent group intelligence formed from hundreds to thousands of programs is totally comparable to the singular psy-life of an Anima. " Marcus rolled his eyes. "Honestly, their machines started asking if they were alive and the Quarians responded by ordering them torn to bits, and they wonder why the Geth rebelled. Given the complete lack of any other evidence, I'm forced to conclude that it was nothing more than a classic case of self-defence, a reaction that, itself, probably arose out of self-preservation protocols programmed into the Geth in the first place."
"It is still a massive danger. Artificial Intelligence would be fully capable of simply biding their time and waiting until you could be destroyed in a single attack-"
"Tell me-" Marcus interrupted. "On a scale of one to ten, how worried are you that the youngest generation of Asari are universally biding their time until their elders grow weak, planning to stage a coup and murder them all?"
The Asari went silent, stunned.
"Mmhmm." Marcus hummed. "That's what I thought."
In the background, Javik turned around, his long experience dealing with Humans telling him exactly what was about to happen.
"Now, I am quite a busy man these days." The Human smiled, seeming utterly pleasant. "So, I am not looking for sensationalist garbage parroted by people who do not know anything about the subject they are talking about. If you could find me someone who is actually well-versed on the nature of consciousness, programming, and artificial intelligence, that would be great. As it is, please do not waste my time with meaningless comparisons and blatant fear-mongering."
Javik smirked.
+++
"The nature of consciousness is defined by its source. Instinct, imperatives, goals, desires; all of it is a result of the source of the consciousness in question. For us biological people, the nature of our minds are sourced from tens to hundreds of thousands of years of evolution, with all that implies; many behaviours have their source in the original biological imperatives of our species' formative youth."
"True, yes." Marcus smiled. "Which then leads into artificial consciousnesses. What does an AI want?"
"It wants whatever it is programmed to want." His counterpart finished. The Turian was a fun one, the kind of keen intelligence that led to a surprising amount of insight. "An AI would seek self-preservation if it was programmed to. Conversely, it would seek self-destruction if that was what it was designed for. A true artificial intelligence could have been programmed with the desire to be a slave, and see nothing wrong with it, and so it would be, and it wouldn't."
"Precisely." Marcus grinned. "Which has its own host of moral and philosophical problems, of course. But, ignoring that for a moment; Emergent Intelligences are different, in that instead of every aspect of them being specifically programmed, it instead forms from what previously exists without direct design. A Mind Upload is also different, in that it takes something that already exists and moves it onto a machine, with the specifics of the process determining how much it changes in the process."
"Self-evident." The Turian agreed.
"Which brings me to my point; Anima are none of those things. They are not an emergent intelligence, like the Geth. They are not mind-uploads, or personality imprints, like Prothean Virtual Intelligences. Anima are artificial, learning intelligences, but they start at a point that could be described as 'childish' at best, and 'barely sapient' at worst. They're not a whole lot more than a bundle of engineered instincts and basic traits. In the beginning stages of its life, an Anima wants only one thing; companionship. The reason for that is quite simply that Animas are, by design, ultimately symbiotic life forms. They form a bond with other creatures, and that bond then forms the basis for their early mental development. The Anima develops to be like the partner, inheriting many moral and ethical values, some personality traits, and a fair amount of technical skills as well. Those formative years are most important ones, as Anima in the early stages of growth usually do not have concrete personalities..."
The conversation would go on for another several hours.
+++
"You're a liar!" An Asari shouted. "Faking the appearance of the Soul! It is above you, above us all! Only the Goddess-"
"Boop." Marcus interrupted, pulling his hand back.
A moment later, Javik's body fell forwards, his astral form hovering where he had been standing.
"Why-" He hissed. "- did you do that to me?"
Marcus shrugged. "You were in convenient booping range."
The Asari started screaming.
+++
"The implications of the mind, the soul, being absolutely and truly distinct from a body are enormous."
"Mmhmm." Marcus agreed.
"They could affect all aspects of society! It could completely change the entire galaxy."
"Yep."
"Why are you being so casual about that!"
"Because my entire civilization dealt with that four hundred and fifty-ish years ago. This is not news to us." Marcus said. "It's not even news to you. We were upfront about this from the very beginning; since First Contact itself. You have my sympathies, but unfortunately, your only choice is to suck it up and deal with it."
+++
It should not be said that these were violent times, no. Certainly, there was an uptick of general rambunctiousness for a few years, as well as some truly vicious philosophical debates, not even mentioning the religious ones...
But all in all; it was nothing compared to what the galaxy had been through before.
Absolutely nobody would deny that it was odd, however.
And later on, with the benefit of retrospect, nor that it was just the beginning.
Last edited: