Path of the Immeasurable Swarm [Worm/Cradle]

All of this leads me to believe that while the Dreadgods have been around for a long, long time, they have not been around forever on Cradle. When taken with just how different they are from basically everything else on Cradle, this leads me to think that they are not naturally occurring on Cradle and/or they did not come from Cradle.

The Dreadgods are 100% artificial given what we've seen as of Bloodline. Sacred Valley has 4 mountains that are all eerily similar to the 4 Dreadgods and it is described as their home. Further the ancestral tombs on top of the four mountains have depictions of all four Dreadgods and Elder Whisper knows how to kill them (plus probably how they were created).

I'm also like 95% certain that they were created by Ozriel before his ascension and that they are the reason he created Penance, theres several hints towards this conclusion. We know Ozriel was the founder of the Aurelius family and that he created Penance after his ascension for some sin on Cradle, we also know that Penance can one hit kill anything on Cradle (probably including the Dreadgods), finally the Aurelius Monarch had multiple keys to the place where it seems the Dreadgods were created. Another interesting tidbit that may or may not be intentional is that Elder Whisper's clan, the Wei Clan, as well as the Silent King, focus on dream and light madra in order to create illusions, and could be connected to how the Aurelius family originally got their bloodline ability given how they would likely focus to develop their spiritual senses significantly after gold.
 
So Taylor is an Underlord now. I wonder what her realization was.
Hasn't been responded to for at least one page, so:

With the hint that Underlord realization is never something clean and wonderful, I will go with what I know about our favourite control freak and consider how she viewed Charity's generosity.

I want to never be powerless again.

Taylor refused to be content living in the gilded cage that was existence without being a cultivator in this world. Thus, she wished for power.

She told herself she wished to be able to trust people again, but everything Taylor became, would reject being permanently at the mercy of others. To be able to trust, she has to be strong enough that she she can feel in control, to feel comfortable actually putting her trust in others.
 
Hasn't been responded to for at least one page, so:

With the hint that Underlord realization is never something clean and wonderful, I will go with what I know about our favourite control freak and consider how she viewed Charity's generosity.

I want to never be powerless again.

Taylor refused to be content living in the gilded cage that was existence without being a cultivator in this world. Thus, she wished for power.

She told herself she wished to be able to trust people again, but everything Taylor became, would reject being permanently at the mercy of others. To be able to trust, she has to be strong enough that she she can feel in control, to feel comfortable actually putting her trust in others.

Authorpost a couple pages ago states her Underlord revelation is that she has no concept of how to live a peaceful lifestyle.

DarianAmell Post(Path of the Immeasurable Swarm [Worm/Cradle] Crossover):
It's probably something like "because it's the only thing I know how to do"

which is both super depressing (she can never go back to just a normal girl)
and scary (since Taylor is an utilitarian idealist : believe in the Greater Good and will do anything to achieve it, self-sacrfice include and expect).

derivativeofLife Response(Path of the Immeasurable Swarm [Worm/Cradle] Crossover):
That's basically it. It was mentioned in a previous chapter (while Mercy was trying to figure out hers), it's probably not going to come up again.

edit: I lied, it is gonna come up again.
 
Hasn't been responded to for at least one page, so:

With the hint that Underlord realization is never something clean and wonderful, I will go with what I know about our favourite control freak and consider how she viewed Charity's generosity.

I want to never be powerless again.

Taylor refused to be content living in the gilded cage that was existence without being a cultivator in this world. Thus, she wished for power.

She told herself she wished to be able to trust people again, but everything Taylor became, would reject being permanently at the mercy of others. To be able to trust, she has to be strong enough that she she can feel in control, to feel comfortable actually putting her trust in others.

Just a note - being a non-cultivator isn't a gilded cage. It's not really even an option; if you're lower than Gold, you're literally considered a child, and you're also so vulnerable that it's the equivalent of having a near-fatal autoimmune disease. It would very definitely be a punishment, more than anything.

The gilded cage equivalent would be being allowed to cultivate and grow without ever being exposed to conflict, but no-one would do that to someone they cared about, in Cradle, because without conflict your cultivation will have a shaky foundation and you're unlikely to advance far.

But yeah, Taylor is pathologically incapable of trust with anyone she's not very very familiar with, and even then it's pretty tentative most of the time. If you're powerful enough to crush someone like a bug, you don't have to trust them, and I'd argue that you definitionally can't trust someone who has no ability to hurt you.
 
Shade 2.1
I considered the unconscious girl in front of me. She was a couple of years younger than me, but her hair was grey. Her clothes were grey too, which would have given her a rather drab appearance if it weren't for the colorful flower Goldsigns in her hair.

I knew she was one of Charity's second choices for the Uncrowned King tournament, in case either of Eithan's apprentices failed to advance. She was a powerful sacred artist, but Charity had said there were other issues which made her less suitable. I was beginning to have an idea of what those other issues might be.

"I want to be there when she wakes," I said. "Can you take her somewhere safe until I finish here?" There was no response, but a black portal opened underneath her, and she sunk through. "Thank you. I'll be back soon."

I shook my head. Seishen Dakata really was an idiot. She was easily the most powerful Underlord in his kingdom. I could've even understood concerns that she would advance to Overlord and displace him, except for the way she was fanatically loyal to his son. With a little effort and a little kindness, she could've been an incredibly valuable asset. Well, his loss was our gain.

I shook my head and rose. I had one more thing I needed to do before I left. A burst from my wings sent me into the air. Now that I'd advanced to Underlord, I could finally fly properly, instead of just hovering. As always, I couldn't help but spend a few seconds just zooming around before I got down to business.

There were still small pockets of fighting here and there, but the wider battle was essentially over. Honestly, it hadn't been much of a battle. There'd been a dozen Seishen Underlords in the camp, but that hadn't mattered much when the Blackflame attack was being led by an Overlord. As soon as they'd realized their fixed defenses had been sabotaged, most of them had retreated to wait for reinforcements. Unfortunately for them, their reinforcements had been forced to surrender the moment they'd arrived.

Unsurprisingly, Yerin had jumped straight into the thick of things. I'd kept an eye on her while she and a young man I assumed was Lindon easily defeated half a dozen Seishen Truegolds. Now they stood watching as their fallen opponents were loaded onto thousand mile clouds for transportation back to the Seishens' portal. Well, Yerin was watching, idly spinning her sword in a rather unsubtle manner. Lindon was seated in a cycling position with his eyes closed. I tried to decide if it was a display to show how little he thought of the Seishens, or if he really didn't consider them a threat.

Smiling slightly, I wrapped myself in the Umbral Mantle as I approached. I landed behind them and let it drop, but kept my spirit veiled to avoid announcing my presence. It was Lindon who reacted first; obviously he'd been paying more attention than he'd let on. He rose smoothly to his feet and turned. "Apologies, but I don't think we've been introduced."

Yerin turned as well at the sound of his voice and broke into a grin. "About time you stopped skulking around and came to say hello," she said, reaching out. I clasped her hand with a smile. "Heard we've got you to thank for putting some spine back in the Skysworn."

"They just needed the right nudge."

Yerin stepped back. "Lindon, Taylor. Taylor, Lindon."

He pressed his fists together and bowed. "It's an honor to finally meet you."

I considered him. He was tall, taller than I was, and I was unusually tall by the standards of Cradle. He was broad across the shoulders, too, and his face was drawn in a way that made it look like he was permanently scowling. Definitely an intimidating figure. He reminded me a bit of Brian. I quickly cut off that train of thought before it could take me anywhere I didn't want to go. "I've heard quite a lot about you," I said, nodding back to him.

"Likewise. Gratitude for all the help you gave Yerin while I was in Ghostwater."

She smacked him on the arm. "I can thank her myself, can't I?" she said. I noticed she didn't. "You've got a different look about you. You advance?"

"I did," I said, partially unveiling my spirit. Maybe it was a bit vain, but after the horrible relationship I'd had with my appearance growing up, I couldn't help but enjoy the way advancing to Underlord had airbrushed my body.

She nodded. "Don't s'pose you've got any tips for it, do you? Could say I'm on a bit of a deadline, here."

I scanned her spirit and scowled. Her lifeline was barely a wisp; she probably only had a couple of weeks left to live unless she advanced, a month at the longest. She'd taken a lot more damage during her fight with Meira than I'd realized. I would've had a very hard time forgiving Charity if she'd died. Aside from that, though, she was clearly at the peak of Truegold.

I scanned Lindon's spirit as well to be thorough, and because I was curious. Like she'd told me, he'd somehow managed to split his core in two. One core was filled with the raging power of the Path of Black Flame, while the other was a cool pond of pure madra. A clever way to counteract the flaw of that Path. That would be Eithan's doing, no doubt. Like Yerin, he was at the peak of Truegold and ready to advance.

"What advice has Eithan given you?" I asked.

"He's all mysterious about it, as usual."

I nodded, unsurprised. "Pride is the most common flaw in sacred artists," I told them. "A lot of sacred artists spend years stuck on what they think their Underlord revelation should be, phrasing it in different ways. That's a trap. If a revelation doesn't resonate with your spirit, changing the wording slightly won't help. The Overlord revelation is about who you are, and the Archlord revelation is about who you want to be, but the Underlord revelation is about who you used to be. Where you came from. It's no shame if that's not something you're proud of."

"Can… I ask what yours was?" said Yerin.

That was a fairly bold request, but I considered her a friend. And like I'd said, it wasn't something I was ashamed of. "I practice the Sacred Arts because I wouldn't know what to do with myself, otherwise."

Yerin hmmed. Lindon pressed his fists together and bowed again. "Gratitude for the advice."

I nodded. "I'm glad to help, but I didn't come here just for that. I believe you have something of ours, Lindon. An axe."

The nervous expression on his face was actually kind of funny compared to how he usually looked. "Yes. Of course." He opened a void key and pulled an evil looking red great-axe out of it. "I offer my sincerest-"

I held up my hand to stop him. "Thank you for retrieving this after Harmony's… unfortunate accident in Ghostwater. You have my personal gratitude." I wasn't lying; there was no way putting me and Mercy on a team with Harmony would have ended well.

It took him only a moment to figure out what I meant. "I understand. I… regret how things turned out."

"The lesson Harmony needed to learn had nothing to do with the Sacred Arts," I said. "What happened was his fault and no one else's." I took the axe and put it away in my own void key.

"You gonna stay for the rest of the competition?" asked Yerin.

I shook my head. "I wish I could, but something's come up that I need to deal with. I expect to see you at the tournament."

"We'll be there," she promised.

"If you still have trouble advancing, bother Eithan until he gives you some real help." Honestly, he probably already knew both of their revelations. What was it with insufferable know-it-all blondes? "It was a pleasure meeting you at last, Lindon."

"Hang on," said Yerin, holding up her hand. I looked over and quirked an eyebrow. I was pretty sure she was blushing. She opened her void key and pulled out the novel I'd given her. "I finished this."

"Did you like it?"

"S'pose it was alright." She shifted around, not meeting my eye. "Can I have another one?"

I smirked. Personally, I hadn't liked it all that much. Cradle literature reminded me of the cheesiest of 80's fantasy, although at least it was more egalitarian. You were as likely to find a woman with a male harem as the other way around. But I wasn't surprised that Yerin would enjoy that sort of thing. I opened my void key again and pulled out another novel. "You can buy these yourself, you know," I said as I handed it to her.

"Might be I'll do that," she said, still not meeting my eye. Honestly, you would've thought she was talking about visiting a sex shop, not a bookstore.

Once we'd said our goodbyes, I took off towards Charity's castle. It was a monstrous construction, covering an entire small mountain, with crenelated walls decorated with arrow slits rising in successive levels. All of that was completely aesthetic, of course; the script circles were the only defense that actually mattered. I wondered what it said about me that I'd kind of come to enjoy the Akura aesthetic. Nothing my original "hero" costume hadn't already told me, honestly.

The boundary field around the castle recognized me as I passed through with a small shiver. I flew straight for the central tower, guided by my scarabs, and landed on the cloudship dock. Inside, I didn't head for Charity's office. First, I wanted to get a better feel for our unexpected guest.

The bedroom where Charity had stashed Meira was near the top, for easy access. She lay on the bed, still fast asleep. She still had the halfsilver collar on, too. I spent a minute considering whether or not I should take it off. She was a powerful sacred artist, and dangerously unstable. Tight quarters like this bedroom weren't exactly my preferred battleground, either. But it would be hard enough to gain trust without making her feel like a prisoner right off the bat. Besides, Charity was just upstairs, and one of her owls sat in the corner. I stepped over and removed the collar, tossing it into my void key, before settling down in a chair on the other side of the room.

It took less than a minute for Meira to wake, presumably because Charity had lifted whatever technique was keeping her asleep. She sat up slowly, looking around in confusion. Her eyes quickly fixed on me. "You!" she snarled. "You're the one who hurt him! It's all your fault!"

I sighed. Not the most auspicious start. "Is it really?" I didn't ready any techniques. If she turned hostile, I'd rely on my Swordhand Iron Body to give me the edge.

Instead, she crumpled. "No," she whispered. "It's my fault. I… I failed again. I couldn't protect him."

I took a moment to wonder if anyone on Cradle followed a therapy Path. This one might be a little out of my league. Well, nothing to do but the best I could. "You love him, don't you?" I asked rhetorically. She didn't respond. "Does he feel the same way?"

"He gave me everything, even when his father didn't want him to. He… He deserves someone better than me. Someone who won't fail him when he needs them."

There was probably a more sensitive way to go about this, but I'd never really been a sensitive person. "So you think you know better than him, then?"

"What? No!"

"You were just talking about what he deserves. Have you ever actually asked him what he wanted, or did you just assume?"

"Stop twisting my words!" she said, glaring at me. "He's the Prince, and I'm just a gardener. I'm not naive enough to think there could ever be anything more than that between us."

I couldn't help but roll my eyes. "If you're just a gardener, then I'm just a beekeeper."

"Don't patronize me! I came from nowhere. I'd be nothing without him. You're the Sage's disciple! We're nothing alike."

"And do you think I was born the Sage's disciple? My father was… the foreman for a gang of laborers. I spent years being told I was worthless, over and over again. If I'd listened, I'd be dead. Instead, here I am. No one out here in the wider world knows where you come from. The only thing that matters is what you can do."

She stared at me for several moments. "Why are you telling me all this?" she asked eventually. "I failed. I couldn't defeat the Blackflame boy or his companion. I couldn't even protect Kiro. What use am I to you?"

"You were misled. Your true purpose was to push them, which you succeeded at. Ideally, they would have pushed you forwards as well. But I think a different approach is needed with you." I tapped my fingers on the chair's armrest for a moment. "What would you do to see Kiro again?"

Her gaze was so intense it actually managed to make me slightly uncomfortable. "Anything."

"That can happen. But it depends on you, and on him to some extent as well."

"Tell me what I need to do. Please."

"First, you'll need patience. It will likely be at least a couple of years." Mainly because spending a couple of years on her own would hopefully do her mental state some good. "Are you willing to wait that long?"

"As long as I need to."

I nodded. "Seishen Dakata is a vassal of the Akura Clan. If we order him to take you back, he'll have no choice but to obey. You'll have a chance to perform a service for us in exchange, if that's what you want. But there's also another way."

"What?"

"Become more powerful than Seishen Dakata yourself."

She stared at me for a moment. Then the glare came back. "You're taunting me. I could never hope to rise to his level."

"Why not? Don't you expect Kiro to succeed his father one day?"

"Of course, but-"

I cut her off. "And how strong are you compared to Kiro right now?" I could almost see her struggling with the question. She was significantly stronger than him. She knew she was. If he could advance to Overlord, it stood to reason that she could do it first. I pressed the advantage. "Your being able to stay with Kiro relies on his father not being able to stop you."

She was silent for several seconds. "Kiro wouldn't forgive me if I hurt his father," she said eventually.

"You won't need to. He's happy to get rid of you as long as it costs him nothing, but picking a fight with another Overlord is something else entirely. He'll put up with you as long as you don't try to undermine his authority."

Again, she was silent for a long time. Finally, she whispered, "What if I want to?"

I couldn't help but smirk slightly. "To undermine his authority?"

"He… He isn't a good king." She was still whispering, like a child saying a naughty word for the first time. "He's too ambitious. He cares about his sons, but no one else. Kiro would be a better king than him."

"If you think the world should be a certain way, the only things you can do are sit there hoping someone else changes it, or gain the power to change it yourself."

Her eyes focused back on me. "You still haven't told me what you want from me."

I shrugged. "Powerful life artists are always in high demand. There are many ways the Akura Clan could benefit from your service. Some would bring you greater benefits than others. But it has to be your choice. You aren't a prisoner. If you want to walk out of here right now, no one will stop you. You could go through the portal to the Blackflame Empire, or even back to the Seishen Kingdom, although I wouldn't recommend it."

"And if I stay?"

"Then you'll come back to Moongrave with me. There will be more opportunities for you there, even if you decide to leave after that. Or you could stay with the Clan, in which case you'll spend the next few months training until you're up the standards we expect. How well you do will determine what we do with you. After that, you'll be expected to spend some amount of time in our service. But we'll be happy to... smooth things over with Dakata once you're done, and I guarantee you'll advance faster than you would on your own."

"How long do I have to decide?"

"We definitely won't be going anywhere tonight. Sleep on it. We'll talk again in the morning."

I turned and left the room, closing the door behind me. Unsurprisingly, she didn't lay down right away after I left, instead sitting on the bed as she'd been before, staring at nothing. I was pretty sure I'd at least managed to rattle her worldview. I hoped she'd be able to put the pieces back together in a slightly healthier way, and not just because she was potentially a powerful ally.

Charity's office was naturally at the top of the tower. I knocked out of habit, although it felt a bit silly when we could both already see each other. "Welcome back," she said as I entered. "You'll be happy to know that Wei Shi Lindon and Yerin Aurelius have already advanced to Underlord."

"Good," I said, smiling. "I'm sure they would have gotten there without my help, but I'm glad to have it dealt with."

She nodded. "I'd like your opinion of Riyusai Meira."

I paused for a moment to gather my thoughts. "She's more confrontational than I would have expected based on the way she acts around the Seishen Prince. The confidence is good, as long as it can be separated from her obsession with him. In terms of the Sacred Arts, she's too reliant on the overwhelming power of her techniques. She's never bothered to develop any real sense for tactics, because she's never had to face an opponent on her level before now. On the plus side, that means she still has plenty of room for growth."

"It was well done taking the opportunity to preempt her from the Seishens. You plan to take her back to Moongrave tomorrow?"

"Hopefully. Best to put her in a new environment as quickly as possible. I'm sure Mercy will take to her instantly."

"Quite likely," she agreed with a small smile. "But take care not to become overly attached. Talented or not, she'll have an uphill battle attracting my father's eye, and we already have strong contenders for the third place. Until the the tournament is finished, everything else is a secondary priority. Don't let her training distract from your own."

"I understand." I paused for a moment. "I retrieved Harmony's axe for you."

"Yes," she said, allowing herself a wistful sigh. "Foolish boy. Such a waste of potential. It is a bitter thing, to feel relieved at the death of my own nephew." She shook her head. "Take it back to Moongrave with you. Put it in the Underlord level vault in my palace. Perhaps in a decade or two, I'll find someone to carry it again."

"Of course."

She stared at nothing for a moment, then focused back on me. "Once this competition is complete, I will make time to instruct you personally for at least a few days. Now that you've entered the Lord realm, many new options have opened for your techniques. It's time you pushed your Path forwards."

I smiled. Usually, Charity could only afford to train me for a few hours at a time, but those few hours were always invaluable. "I'm looking forward to it."

"And I, as well. It will have to wait, though." She gestured to the papers covering her desk. I grimaced in sympathy. Only the most important decisions ever rose to Charity's level, but when you were responsible for literally tens of billions of people, that was still a lot. She couldn't pass any of it up the chain, either, because Fury didn't care and Malice spent most of her time playing what amounted to an extremely high-stakes game of chicken with the other Monarchs.

"I'll leave you to it, then."
 
Glad to see Meira potentially getting some help (the lack of therapists in fiction strikes again). Not surprised that Eithan reminds Taylor of Lisa (guilt for a past failure included) though I doubt she will explain to either Lindon or Yerin why. Looking at the similarities between Taylor and Yerin, one wonders how many of those similarities are common to Sage's desciples (inasmuch as they have them) and how much is just me drawing conclusions from an overly small sample size. Taylor's analysis of Charity's work (and why she can't pass it up the chain) is interesting and certainly explains why Fury seemed so willing to ascend once he had to hit Monarch (and why he was willing to stay at Herald for so long).
 
and Malice spent most of her time playing what amounted to an extremely high-stakes game of chicken with the other Monarchs.

I just wanted to spend a moment appreciating this.

Eh, unions are closer to guilds, if the Cradle world has such (books have been on my too read pile for years, just haven't gotten to them yet.)

For Cultivation purposes, they're all Mortals, so they might as well be a gang of laborers.

For Cradle purposes, things of that level seem to be handled either by Successful Individuals or by Clans dedicated to that particular task.

Eithan was joking with the absolute truth when he said he was the highest ranked Janitor in the Sky Sworn.

He's the Highest Ranked Janitor in the entire Blackflame Empire after all.
 
I really liked that chapter. Glad to see Meira potentially getting some help, as well as Taylor's talk with Charity.

That being said, I kind of get the feeling that the timeline is a bit strange in this chapter. Specifically when Taylor advanced, and then how fast Lindon and Yerin advanced to Underlord. (I know that with the right set of prompting in Underlord they were just as fast but it seems strange that by the time Taylor talks with Charity, they had both done it.)

EDIT: (The Taylor's confusion advancement is mostly to do with the fact that Charity is congratulating her on advancing, and mentioning that this is the first time she got a chance to talk to Taylor since then.)

Still, that's secondary to a really enjoyable chapter.
 
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nice chapter thx for writing it
good to see taylor getting more lessons now that she has advanced wonder how many more bugs she can generate after that ^^
nice to see the potential new minion/friend showing abit of fight in her wonder what her goals will be once's she taste's freedom and gains some confidence
 
I lament the soon to be loss of her zooming when starting to fly. She'll have to train that weakness (joy) out 😕
 
Why not Taylor write her own books? Hell, plagiarize lotr and other classics and sell the books. She needs a hobby.

Besides, it would be good for immortals to read from the prespective of mortals and their struggles.
 
Why not Taylor write her own books? Hell, plagiarize lotr and other classics and sell the books. She needs a hobby.

Besides, it would be good for immortals to read from the prespective of mortals and their struggles.
Pretty sure something like knitting would be less of a time sink hole and wouldn't depend on her complete memorization of multiple novels.

Also, she could make Hope mittens!
 
If she ever get to monarch, the picture of a monarch knitting like an old grandma is very amusing.

I mean, technically speaking Malice is an old grandma, given that she has grandchildren and is hundreds of years old.

... Just don't say that to her face (or, you know, anywhere on the same continent as her) if you value your continued existence.
 
What the hell is the point of expanded lifespan if you have alzheimer for being too old? I thought such power increases your mind, as well?
 
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What the hell is the point of expanded lifespan if you have alzheimer for being too old? I thought such power increases your mind, as well?

It does. Madra in general makes you 'better', and then each of the three Lord Realms brings about its own reforging your body in soul fire to make it even better. You're not going to go senile or suffer mental issues from age.

Besides, it would be good for immortals to read from the prespective of mortals and their struggles.

...what mortals? People on Cradle have finite life-spans, but unless you are spiritually crippled line Lindon was, most people are going to be at least on the level of Aragon or most of the Elves. Not saying it isn't worthwhile but Middle Earth would be entirely alien to the people of Cradle. Even the philosophy of Power that underlies Eru, Morgoth etc (in that using your power weakens it) would be baffling.
 
It does. Madra in general makes you 'better', and then each of the three Lord Realms brings about its own reforging your body in soul fire to make it even better. You're not going to go senile or suffer mental issues from age.



...what mortals? People on Cradle have finite life-spans, but unless you are spiritually crippled line Lindon was, most people are going to be at least on the level of Aragon or most of the Elves. Not saying it isn't worthwhile but Middle Earth would be entirely alien to the people of Cradle. Even the philosophy of Power that underlies Eru, Morgoth etc (in that using your power weakens it) would be baffling.

You make it sound like the novels are catered to super soldiers, rather than nomal, if captain americas of world standard...

But my point stands. Romeo and Juliet, Macbeth, and other classical shit. Hell, Sun Tzu would basically be state secret.
 

IIRC my Lore correctly, there is in fact a supermajority of Mortals within Cradle, but the perspectives we see make it so that they are always significantly below notice, even from the very beginning when Lindon is practically a Mortal himself.

I might be wrong, but that's what I remember what the WoG on the topic basically was.
 
IIRC my Lore correctly, there is in fact a supermajority of Mortals within Cradle, but the perspectives we see make it so that they are always significantly below notice, even from the very beginning when Lindon is practically a Mortal himself.

I might be wrong, but that's what I remember what the WoG on the topic basically was.
I think gold is where you are no longer considered a child.
 
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