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Overlady: Attack of the Minions (Thread II)

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illhousen said:
It's more that a high opinion of Karin as a hero overshadows it.

Louise is currently in the process of assembling Evil forces and striking against Good (if currently a bit corrupted and doing some bad things) country. She uses Evil magic, her eyes glow with Evil pink fire and she has Gnarl as her adviser. Overlords complete with the Gauntlet and the Tower are as Evil as it gets, so striking against them is unquestionably Good if technically blasphemous. So that's what Karin would do, daughter or no. From her perspective, letting Louise roam freely is letting the forces of Evil to take over her homeland, which is not something any respectable hero would allow.

And sure, Louise may try to reveal her "true plan," but, well, you can't trust Evil people. I mean, they object to the speeches of various Popes, for one thing.

I would note that normally it would be a completely reasonable course of action. Louise is rather unique among Evil Overlords for aiming at something else than world domination or absolute power, or other classic goals. I am sure Valliere Duke can cite plenty of examples of various family members going Evil and turning against their parents without it being some kind of secret Good plan. Mostly people corrupted by his family, I would wager.

There is, of course, also always an option of redemption, but it doesn't always work and redeemed big bads tend to die in their last heroic act anyway. Plus, social combat is crap, and with her stats Karin wouldn't be able to win it anyway.
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Louise isn't that unique as Gnarl does have a category for what she is, which is delusional evil. Which is a category that Louise is fitting into less and less as time goes on. I'll be honest that I'm not expecting the "true plan" to survive much past her birthday and/or potential relationship upgrade with the princess.
 
xeivous said:
Louise isn't that unique as Gnarl does have a category for what she is, which is delusional evil. Which is a category that Louise is fitting into less and less as time goes on. I'll be honest that I'm not expecting the "true plan" to survive much past her birthday and/or potential relationship upgrade with the princess.
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A valid point. All the more reasons for the forces of Good to kill her, though.
 
Enjou said:
All I know is that however Karin reacts should she find out that Louise is the Overlady it will be hilariously amusing.
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Louise: Mom! Thank Meep your here, if any body can talk Henrietta out of surrendering her kingdom to me it's you.
 
The question is, is Karrin more lenient towards delusional Evil? By lenient I mean "That's not Good, this is Good," and only murderlizing them AFTER they reject the correction.
 
Of course killing of close relatives like offspring, siblings or parents is generally to be considered a special sort of evil even if they deserve it that generally invites divine punishment and some legal systems even had special unusual punishments for such crimes.
 
I'm sure a world where Evil (step)parents/children/siblings are relatively common has different rules about such things.
 
iemand said:
I'm sure a world where Evil (step)parents/children/siblings are relatively common has different rules about such things.
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Yeah. It's probably still a bad tone to kill your relatives rather than imprison them in the dungeons/highest tower/Abyss/monastery or turn to stone, but what else could you expect from someone with such a... vulgar ancestry as Karin?
 
Well, Obviously Evil can easily be proven in court as extenuating circumstances, especially if it is such an uncompromisingly good force as Karin.
 
Here's my two cents on Louise being outed to Karin.

Karin is Good, with a capital G. Louise, her daughter, is (delusional) Evil, with a capital E. Despite this, I don't see Karin wiping Louise off the face of the planet upon finding out her youngest has fallen to Evil. Sure, you could expect that to be the result should Karin come across any other Evil forces, but the fact remains that Louise is her daughter. She's likely to at least talk to Louise before murderizing her, giving Louise a chance to try and fail to explain herself, at which point Karin will drag her home, kicking and screaming, to lock her in her room for being naughty.

This is, of course, my own personal expectation of how such an encounter might turn out that I'm basing upon my understanding of Louise and Karin's characters. ES may have a different view of things.

In any case, I find a confrontation between the two of them unlikely to happen until much later. Unless Louise grows strong enough to stand up to (or at least escape) Karin, the story as we know it will be over, because Louise will dead and/or grounded.
 
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Sasha said:
Here's my two cents on Louise being outed to Karin.

Karin is Good, with a capital G. Louise, her daughter, is (delusional) Evil, with a capital E. Despite this, I don't see Karin wiping Louise off the face of the planet upon finding out her youngest has fallen to Evil. Sure, you could expect that to be the result should Karin come across any other Evil forces, but the fact remains that Louise is her daughter. She's likely to at least talk to Louise before murderizing her, giving Louise a chance to try and fail to explain herself, at which point Karin will drag her home, kicking and screaming, to lock her in her room for being naughty.

This is, of course, my own personal expectation of how such an encounter might turn out that I'm basing upon my understanding of Louise and Karin's characters. ES may have a different view of things.

In any case, I find a confrontation between the two of them unlikely to happen until much later. Unless Louise grows strong enough to stand up to (or at least escape) Karin, the story as we know it will be over, because Louise will dead and/or grounded.
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Personally I don't' believe that Karin and Louise will cross paths until after Louise drops the delusional part.
 
Gonna be honest, now that we've had a section from her POV I really can't see Louise recruiting Eleanor successfully without Eleanor having a total mental break. Which might just happen if she keeps dealing with her emotions like that, no Eleanor punching will not solve the underlying cause of your emotional distress!

1) Not a ditz like Catt, so unlikely to accept the delusional evil logic.
2) The Eldest Sister, so inherent dominance issue- Louise would need to convert her AND get her to accept being subordinate to the Youngest Sister.
3) Based on Karin's quote (karin you are an enormous ass for saying that to her) from the beginning and her internal monologue, she probably has a lot of her self worth tied up in being Good and defying her Evil nature.
4) She knows Kung Fu.
 
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MinorGryph said:
Gonna be honest, now that we've had a section from her POV I really can't see Louise recruiting Eleanor successfully without Eleanor having a total mental break. Which might just happen if she keeps dealing with her emotions like that, no Eleanor punching will not solve the underlying cause of your emotional distress!

1) Not a ditz like Catt, so unlikely to accept the delusional evil logic.
2) The Eldest Sister, so inherent dominance issue- Louise would need to convert her AND get her to accept being subordinate to the Youngest Sister.
3) Based on Karin's quote (karin you are an enormous ass for saying that to her) from the beginning and her internal monologue, she probably has a lot of her self worth tied up in being Good and defying her Evil nature.
4) She knows Kung Fu.
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She may not have an *option* if Montespan truly wants to kill her. Though if I remember correctly Catt left a note saying the Overlady had Louise before she went off and joined Louise.

Still Eleanor being MIA after the public accusations by Montespan would result in political fallout for the Vallieres along with them have no available heir for the family.

So... umm tricky
 
greensun said:
So that's how you get rid of unwanted familiy memebers! I'll have to try that when my brother comes to visit.
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Treatment like this is reserved for Good siblings, especially if you're the middle one as this generally means you have to be Evil. Alternatively it is also for Evil family members who are in the way of your ambition and hinder the family in acquiring even greater power.

Normal siblings are easily taken care of with a spiked pitfall trap or a claymore mine. Far easier, too. Souldrinking rituals tend to take some time when you don't belong to the Cursed Undead.
 
EarthScorpion said:
Louise (and Eleanore) are a wonderful examples of hybrid vigour. The kick of fresh, outbred Hero blood is enough to kick things up a gear and get two potential overladies in a single generation, even at the cost of some undesirable traits muddying Louis' breeding lines.

... Cattleya is a bit of a dud.
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Even then, I'd imagine her bodily proportion is pretty much everything all the Dark Queen and all manners of Evil Temptress archetype would murder and sacrifice countless innocents for, and Catt has this naturally, and not even (un)death does anything to subtract from it. If anything, it added to it, literally if Louise had to say anything about it.

Eleanore and Louise may have the mental part of being Evil, but Cattleya probably had more of physical aspect of it than both of them combined
 
arsdraconis said:
Even then, I'd imagine her bodily proportion is pretty much everything all the Dark Queen and all manners of Evil Temptress archetype would murder and sacrifice countless innocents for, and Catt has this naturally, and not even (un)death does anything to subtract from it. If anything, it added to it, literally if Louise had to say anything about it.

Eleanore and Louise may have the mental part of being Evil, but Cattleya probably had more of physical aspect of it than both of them combined
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It might just be my reading of it, but didn't Catt have to improvise her own puberty since she got vamped as a kid?

One suspects certain artistic liberties may have been taken.
 
arsdraconis said:
Even then, I'd imagine her bodily proportion is pretty much everything all the Dark Queen and all manners of Evil Temptress archetype would murder and sacrifice countless innocents for, and Catt has this naturally, and not even (un)death does anything to subtract from it. If anything, it added to it, literally if Louise had to say anything about it.

Eleanore and Louise may have the mental part of being Evil, but Cattleya probably had more of physical aspect of it than both of them combined
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Overladies tend towards magic rather than brute force for their evil, with martial prowess being secondary. Overlords, as seen in the games, tend towards martial might first with magic as a support. Plus Catt is cheating because she's a vampire.
 
On Topic:
If, somehow, Louise does manage to convert Elanor to her side what do people think Karin's reaction would be if all three of her daughters have fallen to Evil? I'd imagine she'd at least blue-screen for a few moments before the raging begins.

Also, what would her reaction likely be if she finds out Princess Henrita supports this operation? Possibly something like:
"The crown supports it, ergo Louise is Good. But she's performing Evil deeds and using Evil magic, therefore she is Evil. But royalty! No, Evil!" etc.

Off Topic:
Apart from 'A Green Sun Illuminates the Void', are there any other long non-Saito focused FoZ stories? (Apart from Famailar's of Zero as that's just lots of snips). If so, could I please request a link? (I have trouble navigating Spacebattles archive)
 
Major Session said:
If, somehow, Louise does manage to convert Elanor to her side what do people think Karin's reaction would be if all three of her daughters have fallen to Evil? I'd imagine she'd at least blue-screen for a few moments before the raging begins.
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I imagine she'd blame the Valliere blood, resign herself that she and her husband are exceptions, and try to, ah, dissolve the bloodline.
Also, what would her reaction likely be if she finds out Princess Henrita supports this operation? Possibly something like:
"The crown supports it, ergo Louise is Good. But she's performing Evil deeds and using Evil magic, therefore she is Evil. But royalty! No, Evil!" etc.
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More likely she'd assume the new queen is one of those Evil Queens, and so the realm has fallen to darkness and needs a jolly good scrub.

And by 'scrub' I mean 'cleansing with righteous fire'.
 
Major Session said:
Also, what would her reaction likely be if she finds out Princess Henrita supports this operation? Possibly something like:
"The crown supports it, ergo Louise is Good. But she's performing Evil deeds and using Evil magic, therefore she is Evil. But royalty! No, Evil!" etc.
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I'm pretty sure Karin would draw a distinction between royalty and Good - that is, simply because Henrietta supports Louise's actions, it doesn't make them Good.
 
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