Overlady: Attack of the Minions (Thread II)

[Void spirit]

That explains so much.

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Dragons look like western ones... who are associated with devil at settings time even without seeing them in Abyss?

Rule of thumb is probably that if dragon is animal level of intelligence... it is bit of trouble stealing your sheep and cows... but might be of use if not having Leonardo da Vinchi's/dwarfs flying planes in fantasy setting.

if it is sentient... never make deal with one, you will end worse... and you will likely end up making one or three anyway...

.... so... Familiar of zero had Brimir able to transform Void familiar into some kind of magical nuke? Was it specially made to be dragon killer? Only way to be sure? Easier to have thief sneak into dragon's lair and wait for dragon to return... than kill to it with some sword... too much risk in using enchanted sword...

I guess there are no dragons of eastern kind in emperor Lee's land?

 

[grimallq]

It's really unfair that Evil knows for certain what is a sin and Good doesn't.
Invent Detect Evil spell and make a long series of tests, going through every possible sin and seeing if it makes a person more Evil.

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Consider these few facts:
1. Abyss, as the local counterpart of our modern world, needs a lot of the local equivalent of electricity to run their magical non-technology. Which they get by ...
2. Burning the souls of sinners.
3. Abyss is also chock full of accountants, bureaucrats and all manner of penpushers. Mortal or otherwise.

You can bet your knickers the Abyss corporations refined quantification of sin into an art form. There's no way in Hell they'll allow their main fuel source be redefined each time some fat (and likely utterly insane [or female], judging from the chapter quotes) Good shmuck in a fancy frock has a brain fart.

 

[Epic Reader]

Consider these few facts:
1. Abyss, as the local counterpart of our modern world, needs a lot of the local equivalent of electricity to run their magical non-technology. Which they get by ...
2. Burning the souls of sinners.
3. Abyss is also chock full of accountants, bureaucrats and all manner of penpushers. Mortal or otherwise.

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Naturally! After all, my ice scream maker is rated at 150 kSin(Venal)/hour, though it actually runs at 163 when I add Dark chocolate bars. If I were to suddenly run out of power before the ice scream was finished, it would be an incredibly Good day, and we know we can't have that.

 

[illhousen]

Abyss is also chock full of accountants, bureaucrats and all manner of penpushers. Mortal or otherwise.

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You know, that line made me realize that dead accountants and bureaucrats spend their time in Abyss handling matters of their own burning. Which is, of course, one of the reasons why the bureaucratic system works so slowly when it works at all.

 

[grimallq]

You know, that line made me realize that dead accountants and bureaucrats spend their time in Abyss handling matters of their own burning. Which is, of course, one of the reasons why the bureaucratic system works so slowly when it works at all.

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Unless you're an Evil immortal abomination. In which case you can actually enjoy the work.

As Gnarl can attest.

EDIT:
But going back to the sin bit for a bit:
The Good god of the Brimiric faith is sort of ill defined here. The overworld definition of what's Evil is less divine revelation and more church dogma (plus the occasional demon providing hands-on examples). The church upper echelons appears to be filled in equal parts with complete kooks (various popes) or politicians* (the cardinal from the regency council). With some notable exceptions (Amstreldamme bishop).

The actually intelligent good Good people mostly realized long ago that direct involvement with the church is ... best to be avoided. And instead gravitate to more practical occupations. Like heroing. Just look at Monmon.

You might get the scholarly types to work out a practical definition of sin. But that probably has a much greater chance of getting them excommunicated for messing up someone's political agenda, or summoning Evil horrors in their labs. I'd bet not all of Amstreldamme's demonic incursions are the result of actual Evil cultist.

Eleanore is a perfect example here. She actually combines her Heroic attitude with the Scientific approach. The kind of rare person who might be able to study the nature of Evil to be better able to thwart it. And she ended up in prison the first chance some bigger plot rolled through the city. Even if she didn't just happen to be on Athe's shitlist she'd trip something else.

*Which explains how all the (likely easily manipulated) kooks end up on the papal throne.

 

[TheLastOne]

Yes. This is a canon, established thing from both ZnT and Overlord - most dragons are stupid beasts.

(Obviously the Emperor has to maintain a group of spymasters to stop rhyme dragon infiltration of his dragon corps. Because rhyme dragons are lazy assholes with a fondness for pretending to be the destined special mount of specialness for various heroes and villains and then taking over once someone else has done all the hard work)

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Is the head spymaster a rhyme dragon itself, following the old 'to catch a thief' principle?

Or, you know, the even older principle of of ultimate irony? Because hunting your own kinds seems like it could really play into the whole 'lazy asshole' shtick, and if you have peons doing the hard work of actually chasing off the infiltrators you get the 'someone else does all the hard work' part.

 

[crazyself00]

Louise's mind whirred. "And then she changed. When you were sixteen, yes? Perhaps after the summer holidays?"

"You remember that?" Magdalene's glasses caught the light. "Or have you realised something? Or both?"

"I think it's linked to how Jean-Jacques ended up engaged to me," Louise said slowly.

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Do we know why Wardes became Louise fiances? Was it perhaps after Eleanore freed his vampire ancestor?

 

[EarthScorpion]

Is the head spymaster a rhyme dragon itself, following the old 'to catch a thief' principle?

Or, you know, the even older principle of of ultimate irony? Because hunting your own kinds seems like it could really play into the whole 'lazy asshole' shtick, and if you have peons doing the hard work of actually chasing off the infiltrators you get the 'someone else does all the hard work' part.

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His previous spymaster was.

Alas, the old "set a thief to catch a thief" principle ran into the problem that you are still keeping a thief around and so have not, as such, solved your thievery issue. Plus, dragons just can't be trusted. So Emperor Lee invited his spymaster dragon to a great feast, and then had a large number of cannons pointed at where the dragon was going to sit, with a paper wall between the cannons and the dragon.

(Emperor Lee also cannot be trusted, it should be noted)

 

[Void spirit]

Hmm Reminds me of one novel where crime lord (who ruled over all criminals in city) had carpet he really liked. If he was going to torture someone, he hid carpet to not be stained with blood, otherwise it stayed. It lasted few months, so once he called every gang boss to visit, even his enemies came, since carpet was rolled out.... room was surrounded with hidden crossbowmans...

Maybe do above on dragons birthday or other celebration, cakes with tiny roman candles... or lazy lizard might hear burning fuse on cannons through those paper walls? Can't be too paranoid.

... with Tabitha's dragon not minding "sampling" Guiche... also better check if current spymaster is fully human or... "You killed my Father/Mother!"?

 

[Alane1]

I sort wonder if there would be secret organizations devoted to trying to prevent Overlord Louise and Emperor Lee from getting together and having children if they found out they were meeting each other.

 

[Void spirit]

I sort wonder if there would be secret organizations devoted to trying to prevent Overlord Louise and Emperor Lee from getting together and having children if they found out they were meeting each other.

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Subtle as nuke in shape of Louise's mother?

Hmm With coming new elections in Abyss for Oscar awards...
Would Tiffany, Dark Elven Queen be best newcomer of this year?

Also... last year's winner of Best Halkeginian villain... was some Shafeela, the Marked, who killed prince of Wales? Louise was mistaken for quest giver while in Charming fairies inn and has sent party of heroes to cut off her head. Something like Shafeela has to die or some mask with invisibility power will not work...

will mask be real on Louise's surprise, angry heroes come to attack Louise because cake reward was a lie or will Shafeela survive and candidate again for Best Halkeginian villain?

 

[xeivous]

Subtle as nuke in shape of Louise's mother?

Hmm With coming new elections in Abyss for Oscar awards...
Would Tiffany, Dark Elven Queen be best newcomer of this year?

Also... last year's winner of Best Halkeginian villain... was some Shafeela, the Marked, who killed prince of Wales? Louise was mistaken for quest giver while in Charming fairies inn and has sent party of heroes to cut off her head. Something like Shafeela has to die or some mask with invisibility power will not work...

will mask be real on Louise's surprise, angry heroes come to attack Louise because cake reward was a lie or will Shafeela survive and candidate again for Best Halkeginian villain?

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I'm doubtful that those heroes could even track her down, or even know that they met her should they meet her again.

 

[grimallq]

I'm doubtful that those heroes could even track her down, or even know that they met her should they meet her again.

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Realistically? Maybe. But you have to remember that the world of Overlady runs on Narrative Causality*.

That one-off joke has a better then even chance of cropping up again. Likely during Henrietta's future subplot to raise Prince Wales as an undead infiltrate hostile foreign power/pay respect to her dead finance.

*And game mechanics. Classic "PC faces consequences of a random minor event" example here.

 

[xeivous]

I sort wonder if there would be secret organizations devoted to trying to prevent Overlord Louise and Emperor Lee from getting together and having children if they found out they were meeting each other.

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I'm doubtful of plate armor's effectiveness in permitting breeding, much less having enough give for any pregnancies that may occur. As neither side is likely to be willing to part with their protective garments in the other's presence and neither would they allow for their partner to run off possibly bearing children that mustn't have any chance to favor the one bearing them over their other parent.

Overall breeding seems objectively suboptimal.

 

[illhousen]

Overall breeding seems objectively suboptimal.

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That's what alchemy is for.

 

[Black Noise]

That's what alchemy is for.

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Blood magic adoption rituals as well. That adorable pure-of-heart child currently subsuming Albion would be a good candidate.

 

[Void spirit]

Blood magic adoption rituals as well. That adorable pure-of-heart child currently subsuming Albion would be a good candidate.

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Yeah... just remember that child is pure evil (maybe more of "evil" kind, instead of fashion and cool obsessed kind of "Evil")...

As goes on Evil overlord's list:

19. I will not have a daughter. She would be as beautiful as she was evil, but one look at the hero's rugged countenance and she'd betray her own father.

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Or she gets impatient for parents to die and leave her to rule, so she helps them pass to Abyss... "permanently". Child has already found nice beautiful house with pond full piranhas for parent to thrown unwelcome visitors there or feed them bread crumbs.

good/Good children would be helping parent instead of aiming knife into theirs back...

 

[grimallq]

Yeah... just remember that child is pure evil (maybe more of "evil" kind, instead of fashion and cool obsessed kind of "Evil")...
good/Good children would be helping parent instead of aiming knife into theirs back...

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"good"? Possibly. "Good"?

One Centurion la Valierre certainly proves literally opposite worldviews give a noticeable amount of spice to Parent/Child relations.

As the Bloody Duke can attest. Or would, if he recently wasn't re-deaded. By the Evil offspring of his Good offspring ... Yeah, eugenics are a crapshot.

Obligatory Good =/= good nitpick.

 

[Void spirit]

One Centurion la Valierre certainly proves literally opposite worldviews give a noticeable amount of spice to Parent/Child relations.

As the Bloody Duke can attest. Or would, if he recently wasn't re-deaded. By the Evil offspring of his Good offspring ... Yeah, eugenics are a crapshot.

Obligatory Good =/= good rant.

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Louise: I can explain! Self-defense!

Cattleya: He started it first! Years ago made me a creature of night, forever cursed to feed on blood of living, never feeling gentle light of Su... *get mouth stuffed*

Luouse: Yeah, yeah. And he tried to kill me... Anyway... why were we supposed to respect grandpa and let him kill us or worse? And I'm Good one from Good parents! ... As are my sisters? They surely are?

edit: and Louise's father did not kill his mother. She willingly went into monastery to calm nerves...

edit: Guess this story is wrong one to be searched for examples of good families. Oh well, here's a shoe and here are fork and knife.

 

[grimallq]

edit: and Louise's father did not kill his mother. She willingly went into monastery to calm nerves...

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And that's supposed to be preferable? A good scion might have been manageable. But no. He had to both good and Good. Go off to become a Hero. Marry another Hero to boot.

And look at the results. An actual La Valliere Evil Overlordlady ... with delusions of heroism!!
Centuries of selective breeding down the drain. Perfect Evil and not excessively intelligent* lineage gone in a single generation. A (un)lifetime plot of taking over the Kingdom ruined.**

*Easily controlled.

**Let's ignore the fact Luise will likely secretly take over the Kingdom ... for Henrietta

edit: Guess this story is wrong one to be searched for examples of good families. Oh well, here's a shoe and here are fork and knife.

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"good" families? Yeah, kinda lacking in those.

Traditional "Good" families? Look no further then the Gallian royalty ...

 

[BadRoad]

Traditional "Good" families? Look no further then the Gallian royalty ...

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The Gallian royal family is well aware that their progeny swing between Good and Evil like a pendulum and have made allowances for that. Unfortunately they don't appear very talented at telling Good and Evil progeny apart...

 

[Void spirit]

Centuries of selective breeding down the drain.

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Hmm likely wrong reference and similarity, but makes me think of Dune. Bene Gesserith there were breeding for centuries to make some person who can see future... who appeared generation earlier and went against their plans?

Valliere family was breeded for talent with channelling evil energy... Louise is prodigy, Cattleya is useless, Elenora unknown? Duke Louis got eaten???

not excessively intelligent*

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Now, now... if they were too stupid they would die to, for examples, Evil is not a toy (technically after Elanore broke into grandpa's tomb, her sister died and became vampire) or having too many enemies. Here is something on their neighbours Zerbst:

They were disgustingly heroic, all in all. Not only did they have hundreds of years of experience at thwarting the dark plans of the de la Vallière family and also stealing their lovers, but in between warring with one of the most evil families in Halkeginia and continually failing to die, they also found the time to run around the place slaying dragons, demons, and generally being walking disaster areas to the forces of Evil. There were a few werewolves and the like in the family tree, often due to de la Vallière conniving, but they were usually cured by… urgh, the power of love. Dark gods, the past few generations seemed to recover from lycanthropy after a few weeks' bed rest!

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Probably a funny bit is that Zerbst familiy is sometimes stealing Valliere's lovers...

Better keep Kirche and Emperor Lee separated or... lots of pinkish fire will probably be involved in whatever happens. Louise already had one fiance switching to another women a bit too fast and look what she plans to do! With Marcipan supposed to look somewhat as Louise and Wardes has sent some Griffin knights to find and/or kill Overlady of North... ouch...

 

[grimallq]

Now, now... if they were too stupid they would die to, for examples, Evil is not a toy (technically after Elanore broke into grandpa's tomb, her sister died and became vampire) or having too many enemies. Here is something on their neighbours Zerbst:

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I did say "excessively" ...

It all maps to what I call the sliding scale of henchman* competence.
- On the low end you've got the ones so stupid they become an obvious liability.**
- On the other end you've got ones that are too smart to be useful since:
a) they'd resist being properly manipulated, or
b) pose an actual credible threat during their inevitable betrayal

For the long term manpower pool (IMO what the Valliere family was supposed to be for the Duke) you'll want to aim somewhere in the middle, leaning towards the top. Competent enough to not be easily thwarted, but not bright enough to get "ideas". Or a least not bright enough to actually be able to pull off these ideas.

*Minions are exempt from this rule since they're not henchmen. They're Minions, and hence superior in all regards.
**You don't want the expandable ones to be too witless either. Spanner in the works principle applies.

 

[Void spirit]

Since Louis breeded Valliere for gift with evil magic... Did he wish for good henchman or though of transferring own soul into person with great gift, so that he would end up having it?

However... Second is not possible since Louis is a vampire, making his soul tied too strongly to body and I guess it is not that often in fiction that is magic tied to body, instead of soul/mind. Just two works on top of mind. In one work there is in back story a mage mentioned that looses gift completely after getting soul transferred into common boy with no gift (Lies of Locke Lamora) and there might be case where one mage got weaker after transfer (Dresden files).

Any other ideas how Louis could profit with access to peoples with gift for evil magic beside henchmens and possessing them?

 

[Alane1]

Since Louis breeded Valliere for gift with evil magic... Did he wish for good henchman or though of transferring own soul into person with great gift, so that he would end up having it?

However... Second is not possible since Louis is a vampire, making his soul tied too strongly to body and I guess it is not that often in fiction that is magic tied to body, instead of soul/mind. Just two works on top of mind. In one work there is in back story a mage mentioned that looses gift completely after getting soul transferred into common boy with no gift (Lies of Locke Lamora) and there might be case where one mage got weaker after transfer (Dresden files).

Any other ideas how Louis could profit with access to peoples with gift for evil magic beside henchmens and possessing them?

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Hmm, rather than henchmen, servants? Medieval noble households were drawn from the noble class including the servants after all. Everyone from the Steward to the huntsman, from the pages to the maids would all be from the noble class.