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Oh God, am I the Mannis now? - GoT/SI

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How are people going to view this? I mean Mace seems to come out of this better than Stannis from a purely PR perspective.

Stannis "Defeated" an army that out numbers him greatly, after being starved to near death while being young and untested. He captured mace unintentionally aided by a treacherous plot by said person's underlings.

Mace got captured because of a Treacherous plot by some of his men, somehow survived AND engineered his surrender in such a way that not only did he come out of it smelling like roses in the eyes of the New Government that he fought, but he also secured the support and hand of the King's brother via marriage.

I don't know about Military powers, but a LOT of people are definitely going to comment about his political skills. At least they will if they don't know him. This is OFC assuming things about Stannis's youth and largely unknown political skills even if his military ones are without question.

Is this accurate/possible?
 
Yzarc said:
How are people going to view this? I mean Mace seems to come out of this better than Stannis from a purely PR perspective.

Stannis "Defeated" an army that out numbers him greatly, after being starved to near death while being young and untested. He captured mace unintentionally aided by a treacherous plot by said person's underlings.

Mace got captured because of a Treacherous plot by some of his men, somehow survived AND engineered his surrender in such a way that not only did he come out of it smelling like roses in the eyes of the New Government that he fought, but he also secured the support and hand of the King's brother via marriage.

I don't know about Military powers, but a LOT of people are definitely going to comment about his political skills. At least they will if they don't know him. This is OFC assuming things about Stannis's youth and largely unknown political skills even if his military ones are without question.

Is this accurate/possible?
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Nope, not at all.

Mace got captured after a broken parley. Then agreed to stuff that elevated Stannis. After Stannis captured more highborn following Mace. Stannis may look like a no-good oath-breaker, but there is no way Mace comes out of this looking better than Stannis
 
Hopper said:
Nope, not at all.

Mace got captured after a broken parley. Then agreed to stuff that elevated Stannis. After Stannis captured more highborn following Mace. Stannis may look like a no-good oath-breaker, but there is no way Mace comes out of this looking better than Stannis
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What oath-breaking? Mace says it was all those treasonous Hightowers.

Are you implying that such a paragon of chivalry is lying?;)
 
Hopper said:
Nope, not at all.

Mace got captured after a broken parley. Then agreed to stuff that elevated Stannis. After Stannis captured more highborn following Mace. Stannis may look like a no-good oath-breaker, but there is no way Mace comes out of this looking better than Stannis
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Mace himself says that some one broke the Parley. Mace himself supports Stannis. Then there is the fact that his men did not stop attacking till the Hightower people were caught. Add to that the fact that the Hightower commanders sent Mace's people to die while holding their own people back.......

Well that does paint a rather interesting picture.
Yzarc threw 5 10-faced dice. Total: 29
7 7 9 9 2 2 9 9 2 2
 
Sorry, but this is flimsy cover. Anybody actually in the know sees through this. Which is bad news for both. But especially Mace, since he isn't the king's brother.
 
Hopper said:
Which is why Doran was total bros with Tywin and Robert. And Ned totally didn't go back to the north to sulk for 15 years.
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There's a massive difference between iffy dealings on the battlefield that get worked out among the principals and the cold blooded murder/rape of a much beloved Princess and her children. And when it gets out, because of course it will, even in the scenario that everyone overreacts...then what?

You say that as if those things are insurmountable. Ned fucks off to the North but comes running back when Robert calls. The Dornishmen plotted, prodded and poked for a good decade or two. Nothing much came from it. In fact...didn't they marry Robert's 'daughter'?

Politics trumps 'moral outrage' any god damn day of the week.

EDIT: They aren't out to fool anyone. Perhaps I haven't been clear enough on this. Nobody is trying to fool anyone. Mace and Stabby worked out a narrative both will be pushing. Who the fuck is going to go counter to that?

Who would benefit from it?
 
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Sir Rabby said:
There's a massive difference between iffy dealings on the battlefield that get worked out among the principals and the cold blooded murder/rape of a much beloved Princess and her children. And when it gets out, because of course it will, even in the scenario that everyone overreacts...then what?

You say that as if those things are insurmountable. Ned fucks off to the North but comes running back when Robert calls. The Dornishmen plotted, prodded and poked for a good decade or two. Nothing much came from it. In fact...didn't they marry Robert's 'daughter'?

Politics trumps 'moral outrage' any god damn day of the week.

EDIT: They aren't out to fool anyone. Perhaps I haven't been clear enough on this. Nobody is trying to fool anyone. Mace and Stabby worked out a narrative both will be pushing. Who the fuck is going to go counter to that?

Who would benefit from it?
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Varys, Littlefinger, Arryn, Blackfyres, Martells, Tywin. Those are the people that would undermine this little thing, In various ways.

At no point do I say its insurmountable. Just that it causes problems. And you asked for where damage to reputation might come from.
 
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Hopper said:
Varys, Littlefinger, Arryn, Blackfyres, Martells, Tywin. Those are the people that would undermine this little thing, In various ways.
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Littlefinger is a fifteen year old child now. Arryn is not going to cause more troubles, don't be preposterous. Tywin is marrying into the family but I can see him quietly spreading the word to be wary of Stabby. The Blackfyres...

Varys, yes, he's the scariest of the bunch. Incidentally...also one of the easiest to stab in the gut. The Martells, who have cause to despise the Baratheons, aren't going to be taken very seriously. Whining about the brother of the king when the king himself found no issue with the broken bodies of their relations.

Stabby broke a rule of conduct. For WAR. War with rules. A guideline for the rules of engagement. He didn't bathe in the blood of Tyrell virgins ffs.
 
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Sir Rabby said:
Littlefinger is a fifteen year old child now. Arryn is not going to cause more troubles, don't be preposterous. Tywin is marrying into the family but I can see him quietly spreading the word to be wary of Stabby. The Blackfyres...

Varys, yes, he's the scariest of the bunch. Incidentally...also one of the easiest to stab in the gut.
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Arryn, who engineered this rebellion, not seeing a power block forming against Robert, yes, he totes ignore Stannis' power block.
 
Which acts as a counter to Tywin, preventing him from doing whatever he wants like in the books.
 
Hopper said:
Different times, different politics. Unless you assume that Arryn in his late age knew Renly was buggering Loras.
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Now you're just being deliberately difficult. Arryn knows full well Roberts legitimacy hangs by a thread. He'll back this scheme so hard it's not even funny. Tying another powerful region to the Baratheon dynasty, giving them a stake, and having them as a decent bulwark against Tywin. (Whose grand children will be king).

Come on dude.
 
One thing, Stannis hasn't made ANY acts against Robert. Jon has no reason to think that Stannis is anything BUT loyal. This deal not only secures the realm and also helps not only keep a rebellious house in check but also acts as a block against Tywin.

Really, you are assuming that jon will think of Stannis as the enemy and react accordingly. until proven otherwise, he will be cautious and watchful but not much else.
 
Sir Rabby said:
Now you're just being deliberately difficult. Arryn knows full well Roberts legitimacy hangs by a thread. He'll back this scheme so hard it's not even funny. Tying another powerful region to the Baratheon dynasty, giving them a stake, and having them as a decent bulwark against Tywin. (Whose grand children will be king).

Come on dude.
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Unless you look at what Stannis is doing, and genuinely start to wonder. The enmity between Stannis and Robert before wasn't faked. You underestimate paranoia.
 
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Hopper said:
Unless you look at what Stannis is doing, and genuinely start to wonder. The enmity between Stannis and Robert before wasn't faked. You underestimate paranoia.
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Ok, this I might be willing to concede. Could you paint a picture for us how Robert/Jon would be put off by recent developments? I can see them worrying about Stannis pushing for the Stormlands but that's it.
 
Sir Rabby said:
Ok, this I might be willing to concede. Could you paint a picture for us how Robert/Jon would be put off by recent developments? I can see them worrying about Stannis pushing for the Stormlands but that's it.
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Stannis contrary to everything everybody knows suddenly starts acting sneaky in a civil war. Makes a secret deal with Mace regarding stormlands (which nobody (tm) snitches on). Talks about Tywin marrying his daughter to Robert being a threat. Totally tries to bury the Hightowers, who have Oldtown (Maegor the cool flashbacks). Varys who is still spymaster feeding rumours. Ned doesn't get his glory relieveing the seige of Storm's end. etc.
 
Hopper said:
Stannis contrary to everything everybody knows suddenly starts acting sneaky in a civil war. Makes a secret deal with Mace regarding stormlands (which nobody (tm) snitches on). Talks about Tywin marrying his daughter to Robert being a threat. Totally tries to bury the Hightowers, who have Oldtown (Maegor the cool flashbacks). Varys who is still spymaster feeding rumours. Ned doesn't get his glory relieveing the seige of Storm's end. etc.
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....and they know this how? We as the readers see it happening but Jon and Robert? Only know what happens through word of mouth.
 
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