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Oh God, am I the Mannis now? - GoT/SI

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Ok that was a fairly poor showing from Stabby. I don't know how strong opponents trouble him, given his constant spars with Robert, whom outskills and outstrenght's him considerably.

He should be far better than Ser Apple here, not to mention close in strenght, Stannis is a tall guy IIRC, and pretty damn fit.
 
...

The sentiment keeps popping up but after the Apple gets lucky once, Stabby steamrolls him in four hits.

I was worried I made Stabby unrealistically skilled.
 
Sir Rabby said:
...

The sentiment keeps popping up but after the Apple gets lucky once, Stabby steamrolls him in four hits.

I was worried I made Stabby unrealistically skilled.
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I suppose it's because it looks like Stabby just tanked those hits and proceed to shank the guy, he didn't really feel domineering.

And his wounds sounds pretty damn serious. That's the worst part, I believe. He had to pay an arm to defeat the guy, even if it's "just" broken, it sounds bad.
 
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o_O
D-did Stabby, with just one arm, tear trough an armoured knight that had a shield and a sword? Dat be almost some Arthur Dayne shit.

We as readers know that it was mostly !RAGE! but that must have seen mighty impressive for other people not inside Stabbys head. Like giving him a sporting chance before dismantling him.

Overall a very enjoyable read.

Sir Rabby said:
283 AC – King's Landing – Nation Building and Errors of Judgment
Until, again, something snapped within me and the world beyond my immediate surroundings came back into focus. When the crowd screamed themselves hoarse I wondered...'I only have one working arm. How do I take his tongue?'
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Do a Khal Drogo but with a knee on sir apples chest! Although going by how all around banged up he is he will probably just end up making a mess of the body and in his delirium just give Janna an ear or a fistfull of hair before stumbling out of the ring.
 
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Daniel14541 said:
Your undervaluing him to the reader way to much dude. All we see is just incompetence so far.
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@Sir Rabby at this point seeing things from the perspective of an onlooker, perhaps Janna would make things clearer.

Also don't actually cut out his tongue. You killed him, he can't speak (Barring any Acts of Red God). Mutilating the dead body outside of battle would probably be taking things too far.
 
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Sometimes shit occurs that you don't expect, I liked how you wrote the fight Sir Rabby felt visceral. If I were Stabby I would definitely work on more mental discipline because that rage shit can get you killed, better to think clearly even when wounded and in lots of pain.
 
Sir Rabby said:
Alright: I edited the chapter to change Fossoway dodging, to him stumbling. Now I'm worried this just turned into a caricature of a fight. :(
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It's a bit more believable actually.

It doesn't feel like it was an easy fight by any means.

What I feel might be relevant to comment on future chapters is how short it was. It's usually pretty hard to kill someone in fullplate. In fact, most knights IRL didn't expect to die on the battlefield, but to be taken hostage and then ramsoned.
Sir Rabby said:
I lunges forward
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Lunged.
 
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Bold choice, @Sir Rabby. I wonder whether this will continue to have a long-lasting impact.

Better be really prepared to write a crippled character in a warrior society, though. That's the reason why Tyrion get so little (heh) respect, after all.
 
Fernandel said:
Bold choice, @Sir Rabby. I wonder whether this will continue to have a long-lasting impact.

Better be really prepared to write a crippled character in a warrior society, though. That's the reason why Tyrion get so little (heh) respect, after all.
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We don't know he lost an arm. It could be broken or dislocated.
The real issue with him actually losing the limb is that he is wearing full plate armour, I mean yea there are gaps, but its unlikely for him to have someone crippled from a sword cutting through plate armour. Stannis is the one with the magic sword not Fossoway, so its probably a temporary injury that might last an annoyingly long time but long term he should recover use of his arm.
 
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Terribly disappointed. That was no sword fight. Stamos should just use a mace... Seriously that's no way to use a sword, I should know I've done Chinese swordfighting, HEMA, Eskrima and fencing...
 
Sir Rabby said:
I'd prefer some straight up feedback though.
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Well you got the time of a bout right, it was as fast as any other sword fight normally is.

My issue is the description. From what I can tell you circled each other and then you lunged in, your tower shield was tight to your chest and angled so that his horizontal sweep lost its power And kept sweeping on. Thats where I get lost and maybe I'm just confused but it seems his sword is now across his body and he's try to flick it into your face.
That should be Stannis opening. If I'm getting his style right his aim then would be to stop his weak flick with his shorts word and then power through with his shield into his opponents torso.
If he put the opponent on his back it would be a simple matter to stab through his visor, if his opponent however didn't falk he'd still be back-pedalling. In which case Stannis should keep his shield tight and then go for that stab you've described him doing,

Now I'm unsure what the fossoway is using but it sounds like a buckler with a bastard sword so Stannis at this point would be stopped as you described. However when Stannis comes rushing in the smart move on Gossoways part and one he'd have trained to do a thousand times is twist his torso and have his buckler deflect your lunge, then his pommel into your helmet or shoulder and a crunching blow down. You've lost.

Of course you have your shield ready in which case his buckler turns into a fist of steel in your face. Then you'd fall back and game over. If I was harsh.

However I'd say at this point you could stumble back and your blade could catch his elbow and leave hi unable to use his buckler at which point your rage can switch on and you bash him to pieces as you described.

I dunno.it just didn't read like an intelligent bout on either parties side and Fossoway can be a terrible knight but even he would know his drills.
 
Louis Dabout said:
Well you got the time of a bout right, it was as fast as any other sword fight normally is.

My issue is the description. From what I can tell you circled each other and then you lunged in, your tower shield was tight to your chest and angled so that his horizontal sweep lost its power And kept sweeping on. Thats where I get lost and maybe I'm just confused but it seems his sword is now across his body and he's try to flick it into your face.
That should be Stannis opening. If I'm getting his style right his aim then would be to stop his weak flick with his shorts word and then power through with his shield into his opponents torso.
If he put the opponent on his back it would be a simple matter to stab through his visor, if his opponent however didn't falk he'd still be back-pedalling. In which case Stannis should keep his shield tight and then go for that stab you've described him doing,

Now I'm unsure what the fossoway is using but it sounds like a buckler with a bastard sword so Stannis at this point would be stopped as you described. However when Stannis comes rushing in the smart move on Gossoways part and one he'd have trained to do a thousand times is twist his torso and have his buckler deflect your lunge, then his pommel into your helmet or shoulder and a crunching blow down. You've lost.

Of course you have your shield ready in which case his buckler turns into a fist of steel in your face. Then you'd fall back and game over. If I was harsh.

However I'd say at this point you could stumble back and your blade could catch his elbow and leave hi unable to use his buckler at which point your rage can switch on and you bash him to pieces as you described.

I dunno.it just didn't read like an intelligent bout on either parties side and Fossoway can be a terrible knight but even he would know his drills.
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Alright, this is far more helpful. Thank you ;)
 
Louis Dabout said:
Well you got the time of a bout right, it was as fast as any other sword fight normally is.

My issue is the description. From what I can tell you circled each other and then you lunged in, your tower shield was tight to your chest and angled so that his horizontal sweep lost its power And kept sweeping on. Thats where I get lost and maybe I'm just confused but it seems his sword is now across his body and he's try to flick it into your face.
That should be Stannis opening. If I'm getting his style right his aim then would be to stop his weak flick with his shorts word and then power through with his shield into his opponents torso.
If he put the opponent on his back it would be a simple matter to stab through his visor, if his opponent however didn't falk he'd still be back-pedalling. In which case Stannis should keep his shield tight and then go for that stab you've described him doing,

Now I'm unsure what the fossoway is using but it sounds like a buckler with a bastard sword so Stannis at this point would be stopped as you described. However when Stannis comes rushing in the smart move on Gossoways part and one he'd have trained to do a thousand times is twist his torso and have his buckler deflect your lunge, then his pommel into your helmet or shoulder and a crunching blow down. You've lost.

Of course you have your shield ready in which case his buckler turns into a fist of steel in your face. Then you'd fall back and game over. If I was harsh.

However I'd say at this point you could stumble back and your blade could catch his elbow and leave hi unable to use his buckler at which point your rage can switch on and you bash him to pieces as you described.

I dunno.it just didn't read like an intelligent bout on either parties side and Fossoway can be a terrible knight but even he would know his drills.
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This. Stannis Should have Done a Shield Bash the Second Fossoway's Sword skipped off his shield and crossed his center line, a bull rush with a tower shield while Fossoway's blade was out of position would have landed the Apple on his back, at which point a quick thrust through the visor would have finished things.

Alternately, he could go the Roman Style of Fighting that he seems to prefer for his storm bringers and tank everything with the shield and go for short stabbing thrusts to the body with his blade. The Gladius would be much quicker than Fossoway's Longsword, and eventually the Blade would either punch through the plate or buckle it enough with repeated strikes that it would dent inwards and tear open fossoway's squishy bits. That's how you win with a mace or a warhammer after all.

For reference, I used to be a re-enactor and have trained in multiple schools of Swordsmanship including Floss Duelatorum, and Lichtenauer so I too can provide feedback if needed
 
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KnightofTempest said:
This. Stannis Should have Done a Shield Bash the Second Fossoway's Sword skipped off his shield and crossed his center line, a bull rush with a tower shield while Fossoway's blade was out of position would have landed the Apple on his back, at which point a quick thrust through the visor would have finished things.

Alternately, he could go the Roman Style of Fighting that he seems to prefer for his storm bringers and tank everything with the shield and go for short stabbing thrusts to the body with his blade. The Gladius would be much quicker than Fossoway's Longsword, and eventually the Blade would either punch through the plate or buckle it enough with repeated strikes that it would dent inwards and tear open fossoway's squishy bits. That's how you win with a mace or a warhammer after all.

For reference, I used to be a re-enactor and have trained in multiple schools of Swordsmanship including Floss Duelatorum, and Lichtenauer so I too can provide feedback if needed
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Yep that's a sure way to go about things.
 
@Sir Rabby I'm curious but why does Stannis use this style of sword fighting as his preferred form in a duel? It would seem more fitting to utilise a sword with more reach and a smaller shield as per norm at the time.

If you noticed in my description of how the fight could've gone Fossoway had far more advantages. Stannis' style is limited whereas Fossoway's is far more flexible. The Gladius is a good stabbing weapon and in a melee most likely highly capable much like the Falchion was. However in a one on one duel the limited reach of his blade is an instant issue. Any knight who knows what he's doing is at an advantage, the long sword he's using has all the functions of a gladius and longer reach. In a duel, reach and speed are the deciding factors. Along with the terrain, but that's in most cases (and in this one) a well swept and flat floor. I know that Stannis will win this but I hope Rabby you use this duel to teach Stabby that he needs to learn to use a proper bastard sword if he wants to be on an equal footing with his opponents.

I'd also point out that Stannis should definitely never attempt to fight on horseback, he and his gladius are literally screwed at that point. There's no way that he'll ever hit his opponent unless he dived from his saddle.

Furthermore I spent some time writing out permutations of how the duel could've gone... Sorry I love sword fighting and I couldn't help it. I'm just going to share it.

1)
Fossoway vs Stabby

Fossoway powers in, one straight thrust forward onto Stabbys shield. He follows the lunge, his blade pushed up into the air. Stabby is pushed back by thrust but blade pushes forward. Fossoway's buckler slaps it away, he brings pommel down stop Stabbys head.

Stabby is sent reeling back. Fossoway follows through, buckler punches at Stabbys chest, his swords hilt bashing at Stabbys shield. Stabbys attempt to sweep at Fossoway with his gladius is to weak, he's far too distracted and hurt to really put anything into it.

Fossoway continues the offensive and slaps Stabbys shield away from his chest with his swords crossguard catching the rim of the shield. Buckler punches Stabbys helmet again.

Stabby falls, Fossoway wins.

2)
Stabby powers in, blade stabs. Fossoway steps to bring the blade on his swords side. He uses his blades flat to guide Stabbys away and belts his buckler into Stabbys helmet and sends him to the ground. Fight ends.

3) Fossoway attacks with a cut down, Stabby deflects it into the ground and stomps on the blade. Wrenches sword from Fossoway and then with a series of powerful jabs and cuts breaks Fossoway and wins.

4) Stabby steps forward and Fossoway attacks with a powerful horizontal slash. Stabby adsorbs it on his shield and then spins to wrap his sword arm around Fossoway's and then follows through to bring his shield's rim into Fossoway's face. Letting go of Fossoway's sword arm Stabby turns fully and thrusts into Fossoway's face and catches his helmet first with the sword and then with the shield. Then as Fossoway stumbles back, Stabby catches his knee and breaks his armor with the magical valyrian sword to hack into it and send Fossoway crumpling to the ground.

5) Stabby uses the tower shield to guard his lower torso and legs, his sword covers the rest of the upper portion. Fossoway attacks with a straight thrust. Stabby twists his torso and uses his swords flat to deflect it past. Stabbys dominant foot is planted forward facing Fossoway and as Fossoway moves forward Stabby puts his weight into it and raise his swords arm elbow that is now towards Fossoway. The elbow is pushed into Foosways shield and Fossoway falls back a bit. Stabby uses his momentum to spin his body around and hit Fossoway with his shield. Fossoway is pushed to the side and as he moves that way his concentration breaks and his shield lowers. Stabby then catches him from the side he's stumbling towards on the helmet. Meanwhile Stabbys shield pushes down on Fossoways weak flick up with his sword and punches it from his grasp. Stabby wins.


Anyway Danke Rabby for writing this amazing fanfic. I wish I could even be half as good as you. Sorry for being a pain about all this
 
Okey truthfully I am rather dissapointed with this chapter. Why? Here I will crosspost from SB ;
Tasoli said:
I think the problem is not the fight itself but how it was written, especially before the fight. Because holy shit, Stannis went to fight with a defeatist attidute about losing support among people, he lost his shield and get injured and acted with so little self confidance entire thing reads like big pile of self doubt. In other words Stannis lost this before he went to fight and him wining was not really like a win at all.

If you hadn't spoiled the mood by the start of the episode and skipped that part with an angry Stabby coming to field nobody would complain about it.

And more importantly that cliffhanger is so out of place it is not even funny. You don't put a downer cliffhanger if you want people to get pumped about something. Give a real answer to how injured Stabby is and don't be coy about it because it is not the place. This episode is supposed to resolve things as it is the end of an subplot you are not trying to develop it further therefore the right thing to do is resolve it fully. Not allude to more complications.

Long story short I am displased with this episode, Not because the fight but because how out of the place the emotions are.
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Tasoli said:
Yes I think it is bad idea. Stories more specifically plots has an ebb and flow during their arcs, In this case it was build up for big finish as it were. Instead we got a cold shower and literary blue balls.

Mini cliffhanger does not help.

I never thought it was actually a permanent injury since it is totally at odds with what was promised so to speak. Rocky does not get career ending injury at the middle of the movie so to speak, he gets it at the start -so he can overcome it- or at the very end -so it leads to happy end-.
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Tasoli said:
It is about flash and substance. SB in general is more likely to talk about flash but it is generally substance that causes big problems like this episode. To be fair it is easy to miss since we are generally more interested in flash -in this case a sword fight- but the real problem is how at odds the emotionel content of this episode is with what was promised.


I am not saying it can't happen but it has to treated as its own subplot. In canon we have perfect example of it in Jaime losing his hand. It ends Jaimes imprisonment subplot and starts his character growth arc.

Here it is just cheap drama, unnecessary one at that.
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Tasoli said:
English is my second language so writing long posts or technical ones are kinda hard. But what I was driving is actually what you learn at high school. Introduction, complication and resolving it(??)

Cliffhangers are very much tool to make complications or highlight them.

Also at the start of the chapter Stabby thinks about his reputation but it is wrong place to introduce that sub plot since it takes us away from the one resolution we were waiting for. Better place would be at the end after the fight Stabby goes to tent and talks to his cousen while taking his armor off introducing new subplot after last one resolved.
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Daydree said:
o_O
D-did Stabby, with just one arm, tear trough an armoured knight that had a shield and a sword? Dat be almost some Arthur Dayne shit.

We as readers know that it was mostly !RAGE! but that must have seen mighty impressive for other people not inside Stabbys head. Like giving him a sporting chance before dismantling him.

Overall a very enjoyable read.

Do a Khal Drogo but with a knee on sir apples chest! Although going by how all around banged up he is he will probably just end up making a mess of the body and in his delirium just give Janna an ear or a fistfull of hair before stumbling out of the ring.
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Arthur Dayne dual wielding swords mopped up a large group of armored men taking no damage. This Stannis went incompetent berserker and let himself get injured to take the enemy. He suddenly became a novice fighter in thi duel. Was his drink drugged?

Arthur Dayne is alive he was even wearing the old Kingsguard armor, of the Mad King era.
Then again it could be the show's directors fucking with us
 
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Louis Dabout said:
@Sir Rabby I'm curious but why does Stannis use this style of sword fighting as his preferred form in a duel? It would seem more fitting to utilise a sword with more reach and a smaller shield as per norm at the time.

If you noticed in my description of how the fight could've gone Fossoway had far more advantages. Stannis' style is limited whereas Fossoway's is far more flexible. The Gladius is a good stabbing weapon and in a melee most likely highly capable much like the Falchion was. However in a one on one duel the limited reach of his blade is an instant issue. Any knight who knows what he's doing is at an advantage, the long sword he's using has all the functions of a gladius and longer reach. In a duel, reach and speed are the deciding factors. Along with the terrain, but that's in most cases (and in this one) a well swept and flat floor. I know that Stannis will win this but I hope Rabby you use this duel to teach Stabby that he needs to learn to use a proper bastard sword if he wants to be on an equal footing with his opponents.

I'd also point out that Stannis should definitely never attempt to fight on horseback, he and his gladius are literally screwed at that point. There's no way that he'll ever hit his opponent unless he dived from his saddle.

Furthermore I spent some time writing out permutations of how the duel could've gone... Sorry I love sword fighting and I couldn't help it. I'm just going to share it.

1)
Fossoway vs Stabby

Fossoway powers in, one straight thrust forward onto Stabbys shield. He follows the lunge, his blade pushed up into the air. Stabby is pushed back by thrust but blade pushes forward. Fossoway's buckler slaps it away, he brings pommel down stop Stabbys head.

Stabby is sent reeling back. Fossoway follows through, buckler punches at Stabbys chest, his swords hilt bashing at Stabbys shield. Stabbys attempt to sweep at Fossoway with his gladius is to weak, he's far too distracted and hurt to really put anything into it.

Fossoway continues the offensive and slaps Stabbys shield away from his chest with his swords crossguard catching the rim of the shield. Buckler punches Stabbys helmet again.

Stabby falls, Fossoway wins.

2)
Stabby powers in, blade stabs. Fossoway steps to bring the blade on his swords side. He uses his blades flat to guide Stabbys away and belts his buckler into Stabbys helmet and sends him to the ground. Fight ends.

3) Fossoway attacks with a cut down, Stabby deflects it into the ground and stomps on the blade. Wrenches sword from Fossoway and then with a series of powerful jabs and cuts breaks Fossoway and wins.

4) Stabby steps forward and Fossoway attacks with a powerful horizontal slash. Stabby adsorbs it on his shield and then spins to wrap his sword arm around Fossoway's and then follows through to bring his shield's rim into Fossoway's face. Letting go of Fossoway's sword arm Stabby turns fully and thrusts into Fossoway's face and catches his helmet first with the sword and then with the shield. Then as Fossoway stumbles back, Stabby catches his knee and breaks his armor with the magical valyrian sword to hack into it and send Fossoway crumpling to the ground.

5) Stabby uses the tower shield to guard his lower torso and legs, his sword covers the rest of the upper portion. Fossoway attacks with a straight thrust. Stabby twists his torso and uses his swords flat to deflect it past. Stabbys dominant foot is planted forward facing Fossoway and as Fossoway moves forward Stabby puts his weight into it and raise his swords arm elbow that is now towards Fossoway. The elbow is pushed into Foosways shield and Fossoway falls back a bit. Stabby uses his momentum to spin his body around and hit Fossoway with his shield. Fossoway is pushed to the side and as he moves that way his concentration breaks and his shield lowers. Stabby then catches him from the side he's stumbling towards on the helmet. Meanwhile Stabbys shield pushes down on Fossoways weak flick up with his sword and punches it from his grasp. Stabby wins.


Anyway Danke Rabby for writing this amazing fanfic. I wish I could even be half as good as you. Sorry for being a pain about all this
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Thank you :D, I'm cribbing one of these ;)
 
@Louis Dabout one thing you are forgetting. A competent scutum user has a nigh impregnable defense a longsword wielder cannot penetrate.

@Sir Rabby how in the hell was your elbow sticking out? Unless Stannis has mutant long arms a scutum or tower shield is 1.5 times the width of the user's shoulders. So unless Stannis has abnormally long arms or the shield was made for a smaller man Stannis losing his arm is bullshit. Along with chopping through the metal shield.

In cannon it took a dozen full powered swings of a Valerian steel bastard sword on the same spot to penetrate steel plate. Even then the blade was nicked, cracked and damn near broke. A gladius doing the same with less blows. Blows landing on different areas of the shield at that, it is impossible for Stannis to have cleaved the shield. He does not have the Mountain's strength nor the leverage to do it.

Edited to correct auto-incorrect.
 
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Okay just had my farmhand put on a spare set of pauldron, vambrace, and gauntlets and holding a medieval European tower shield. Posing everywhich way you can hold the thing the shield juts out two inches past his elbow. My farmhand is 6 foot 2 inches tall. I'm getting weird looks from my crew and my grandkids lol.
 
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