Oh God, am I the Mannis now? - GoT/SI

. The Dragon's had taken flight from their ancient refuge and were, already, safely ensconced in the Oligarchy of Pentos.

I'm trying to think of how it's plausible that the Targaryens would have abandoned Dragonstone. They didn't in canon, as they believed wholeheartedly that the Royal Fleet could protect them, as well as all the men on the ships. Furthermore, the Queen was pregnant and would probably have not done well on a ship in her condition. Adding on top of this, Dragonstone was highly defensible, and would have been very difficult to siege, and would be rather well-held by a small force.

When it got sieged in canon, of the 1,000 casualties, the vast majority of them were of the attackers. And that was a pretty small garrison left behind by Stannis who basically took all his men with him, rather than say the Targaryens who'd have all the loyalist remnants left there, and they were nowhere else. With the amount of men the Targs would have had, probably around several thousand, they should have been pretty confident.

And if enough time had passed for them to be worried about Stannis' shipbuilding unlike in canon where they stayed for nine months despite the new fleet being built, then I don't get why Stannis didn't have ships out there to sort of blockade Dragonstone. Instead, he apparently decided to not even bother sending ships up there, when the presence of ships could have prevented the Targaryens from even considering moving out due to the potential for the Royals to be killed by their ship being sunk.

Actually that reminds me, how much time has passed since the war ended or well, since the Targaryens went to Dragonstone? Honestly, it's coming off to me that the Targaryens have escaped with pretty much all their men and stuff as for drama's sake.

Anyway, I like the whole bit with Tywin. Still not keen on Lyanna, considering she went willingly like a stupid bint with Rhaegar in this.
 
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@Sir Rabby one and eight years old should be "ten and eight"
"neat won it" should be "neatly won it"
There are a few more but I have work to do today. I'll look over it again tonight.
 
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Still not keen on Lyanna, considering she went willingly like a stupid bint with Rhaegar in this.
She was a tween girl with delusional notions of romance and dreams of a gallant prince sweeping her out of her feet. It's rather unfair to blame her too much to be honest, especially if she came to her senses soon enough. :p
 
I'm trying to think of how it's plausible that the Targaryens would have abandoned Dragonstone. They didn't in canon, as they believed wholeheartedly that the Royal Fleet could protect them, as well as all the men on the ships. Furthermore, the Queen was pregnant and would probably have not done well on a ship in her condition. Adding on top of this, Dragonstone was highly defensible, and would have been very difficult to siege, and would be rather well-held by a small force.

When it got sieged in canon, of the 1,000 casualties, the vast majority of them were of the attackers. And that was a pretty small garrison left behind by Stannis who basically took all his men with him, rather than say the Targaryens who'd have all the loyalist remnants left there, and they were nowhere else. With the amount of men the Targs would have had, probably around several thousand, they should have been pretty confident.

And if enough time had passed for them to be worried about Stannis' shipbuilding unlike in canon where they stayed for nine months despite the new fleet being built, then I don't get why Stannis didn't have ships out there to sort of blockade Dragonstone. Instead, he apparently decided to not even bother sending ships up there, when the presence of ships could have prevented the Targaryens from even considering moving out due to the potential for the Royals to be killed by their ship being sunk.

Actually that reminds me, how much time has passed since the war ended or well, since the Targaryens went to Dragonstone? Honestly, it's coming off to me that the Targaryens have escaped with pretty much all their men and stuff as for drama's sake.

Anyway, I like the whole bit with Tywin. Still not keen on Lyanna, considering she went willingly like a stupid bint with Rhaegar in this.

Ok, valid point. But I offer this alternate view:

In canon they had nowhere to run. Sending Viserys and the infant to Braavos on a single ship, as Stannis was closing in, was a hail mary. Besides a few odds and ends, and the personal influence of the Darry knight, they had noone to shield or help them. They might have found a benefactor or two but they knew they wouldn't be safe anywhere.

An the situation in Westeros was different. Dorne yielded just as quickly as in canon, if not slightly faster, but the Reach wasn't alienated by stuffing Stannis and a Florent together. It may be a longshot but having the option open of the most powerful realm, and the sneakiest realm, with the Greyjoys having been oddly quiet...

It wasn't a stretch to think they might get lucky and Robert could catch the pox and croak. Everything crumbles with him, if he dies. Robert could have been a tyrant! He could have stripped half the country of their titles and lands. He could done a whole lot of shit wrong.

But Jon motherfucking Arryn held it all together. In that situation it might be best to adopt a wait and see approach.

Now, however, they got an offer from the Blackfyres - which is dangerous but no more so than the other cousins who have been slaughtering you on the continent - of safe grounds in Pentos. A reasonable one ever where they acknowledge Jon, who they already have and the three King's Guards they managed to trick into arriving at Pentos - Among which Arthur holy shit Dayne -as their overlord. All they want are marriages and their wealth, influence and arms belong to the Targy's.

Not to mention that on the continent; the Reach is being welcomed, what the shit is the King's brother doing - is that an arsenal?-, and not even Dorne is calling revenge anymore?

A whole different set of circumstances, in which case sitting pretty in your castle - even if you're four and a half months pregnant-, is suddenly not looking too good.
 
I think one of the problems is that there is a severe underestimation of travel times and thus a lot of things are starting to conflict in their comparison to canon.

How far, how fast?


One of the problems that writers often encounter when they set their stories in pre-industrial worlds is the question of how long it takes to travel from place to place. If you had to ride on horseback, how long would it take you to cross an entire kingdom or a continent? Fortunately for writers, some medieval historians have wondered about that question too. Here are some excerpts from history books that provide the answers.

Mistress, Maids and Men (originally published as A Baronial Household of the Thirteenth Century) looks at English noble households by studying their accounting books. Here's what she had to say.

Some estimate of the average distance covered in a day by [a thirteenth-century English] household can be gained from the countess of Leicester's account in February; when the household was at Wallingford, it moved on to Odiham by way of Reading, spending one night there. The journey on each of these days was just over fifteen miles, the normal pace of such a move in midwinter. But in June, when the countess had to hurry across country with her household to the greater safety of Dover castle, she consistently travelled thirty miles a day. This may reasonably be considered as fast as such a large company could move, and the sustained rate of speed hints at the urgency that drove them on.

All thirteenth-century travellers did not of course belong to large retinues, and small groups with good horses travelled much faster. The merchant could do between thirty-five and forty miles a day, travelling only in daylight hours, if his merchandise was light and easily carried on one horse. Freight services, such as commonly transported wine in England or travelled the alpine passes with goods from Italy for the fairs of Champagne, were among the slowest of all traffic. Fastest of all was the messenger, for he also travelled at night and often requisitioned extra horses along his route. He might cover as much as fifty-five to sixty miles a day.
(pp. 156-7)


If we now refer back to my distances chart we get a better picture of how long everything should take to travel.

Distances are in miles; the Wall is 300 miles long.

_________________KL____SS____CR____HG____RR__Pyke_Eyrie__Twins____WF__Wall____WH____OT____DS____SE
King's Landing_____0_____310___270___250___190___310___210___270___530___720____400___360___140___130
Sunspear_________310____0____500___350___500___600___510___590___850__1010____710___380___370___190
Casterly Rock______270___500____0___200___160___130___330___250___510___730____430___270___380___370
Highgarden_______250___350___200____0___290___320___420___400___680___890_____570___110___380___270
Riverrun_________190___500___160___290____0____140___170___110___390___600_____280___390___260___320
Pyke____________310___600___130___320___140____0___290___160___390___600_____320___400___390___440
Eyrie____________210___510___330___420___170___290____0___150___340___500_____200___530___170___320
Twins___________270___590___250___400___110___160___150____0___280___490_____180___500___310___400
Winterfell________530___850___510___680___390___390___340___280____0___210_____130___780___500___650
The Wall_________720__1010___730___890___600___600___500___490___210____0_____320___990___660___820
White Harbor_____400___710___430___570___280___320___200___180___130___320_____0____670___360___520
Oldtown_________360___380___270___110___390___400___530___500___780___990____670____0___490____370
Dragonstone______140___370___380___380___260___390___170___310___500___660____360___490___0_____180
Storm's End______130___190___370___270___320___440___320___400___650___820____520___370___180_____0
A normal person can travel 30 miles, give or take 5-10 depending on their abilities and the terrain they're moving through, a day. This means a Watcher on the Wall would take 10 days on foot to travel from Westwatch-Shadow Tower to Eastwatch by the Sea. Thus for Aerys II to go to Storm's End from King's Landing with his entire royal party would take more then a few days. Hell a lot of time would be eaten up just by the royal party having to wait for all the food for the journey to be gathered, supplies set up and such made to where the realm still functions without the king in his castle. If the entire thing took less then 2 weeks I'd be surprised. Double that time in winter.

This type of estimate could actually be made for the travel of any lord of a great house. King's Landing to Winterfell should take no less then a month with the king gone from his castle for at least 3 because after such a lengthy journey you're not staying in your destination for any short period of time.
 
Now, however, they got an offer from the Blackfyres - which is dangerous but no more so than the other cousins who have been slaughtering you on the continent - of safe grounds in Pentos. A reasonable one ever where they acknowledge Jon, who they already have and the three King's Guards they managed to trick into arriving at Pentos - Among which Arthur holy shit Dayne -as their overlord. All they want are marriages and their wealth, influence and arms belong to the Targy's.

Not to mention that on the continent; the Reach is being welcomed, what the shit is the King's brother doing - is that an arsenal?-, and not even Dorne is calling revenge anymore?

A whole different set of circumstances, in which case sitting pretty in your castle - even if you're four and a half months pregnant-, is suddenly not looking too good.
They got baby Jon (who might not named Jon), baby Aegon, Viserys, baby Daenerys (unborn) and Rhaella, correct?

Who are marrying who here? I mean, how many blue bloods they have from the Blackfyre branch?

And also... Would it be fun, to have Danny born as a HE on this timeline? I mean, as part of the butterfly effect and all?
 
I really like how Stannis is about to get fuckhuge strategic concessions for what amounts to a neat sword that is going to be obsolete anyway when Stannis really gets going.


@Sir Rabby

Did Stabby already start on some parts of the Green Revolution that the tech level allows? Seed drills were already mentioned, but animal husbandry as well as plants would give steady incremental improvements.

As it would be a part of a larger push for science (so he doesn't have to do everything himself) he might get into political clashes with the maesters that see their position threatened. And to make the entire thing even more complicated, some maesters support him, but maybe in a politically unfortunate manner.

There should also be some tension with the North. They export a lot of lumber, I think. The sawmills are probably making things hard on them. A solution would be to share the know-how, but that would cut into Stabbys own profits.
 
A few things I find surprising. Why has Tywin not killed Jania and Mina and throw a naked Cersei into his chambers? Tywin has got to know that Stabby will be running Westereos. Time favors him and he is ruthless and cunning.

Why one of the people that is being paid to spy on Stabby not messed up, confessed, or been caught? If one of Stabby men is not secretly spying on him that would be a first.

Why not use the faith as cover for upsuring Essos? Septa and Septons braving the lands of the heathens to preach and help the downtrodden. Europeans use missionaries to hide there business till they were powerful to no need subterfuge.
 
Contend with

You wish to foster similar relationships are the Braavosi Sealord has with his traders?
This sentence needs a rewrite, methinks.

Once my stores of seasoned wood become usually I would already own every desperate chain from the woods for the planks to the rope for the sails
This one too.

Now I was one thinking carefully
I was the one thinking carefully

Greedy banks make their money of the banks of their clients.
Should this be 'off the backs of their clients'?
 
A few things I find surprising. Why has Tywin not killed Jania and Mina and throw a naked Cersei into his chambers? Tywin has got to know that Stabby will be running Westereos. Time favors him and he is ruthless and cunning.

Why one of the people that is being paid to spy on Stabby not messed up, confessed, or been caught? If one of Stabby men is not secretly spying on him that would be a first.

Why not use the faith as cover for upsuring Essos? Septa and Septons braving the lands of the heathens to preach and help the downtrodden. Europeans use missionaries to hide there business till they were powerful to no need subterfuge.

Because everyone who knows anthing would realize its Tywin. This would most likely make Tywin the outright enemy of most of the relm. The Reach would certainly declare war on him. Dorne would join just to fuck hi up. The Grevjoys want an excuse to reave the westerlands or wherever. Jon would likely make sure the rest of the realms join in.
 
Because everyone who knows anthing would realize its Tywin. This would most likely make Tywin the outright enemy of most of the relm. The Reach would certainly declare war on him. Dorne would join just to fuck hi up. The Grevjoys want an excuse to reave the westerlands or wherever. Jon would likely make sure the rest of the realms join in.
No everyone will suspect Tywin but without proof nothing will happen. You honestly think Olenna would let Mace make war on the westerlands. Who can raise 60000 well trained, equipped, and ruthless troops.

While I do agree that everyone will suspect, who will outright say it? Mace is not a complete idiot.
 
I don't remember any wedding or mention of one recently, so all's fair and whatnot. Might be smart to marry off quickly to avoid possible bad things though.
 
Stannis is already marrying Mace's sister or has already done so. It was part of the truce and alliance agreements that bound Mace to Stannis.

Well there is a general of agreement of possible marriage.

On the other hand, Stabby just set himself up as competent, effective and a visionary, which has impressed Tywin Freaking Lannister.

Tywin knows that with Lyanna alive and well, he's not getting Robert for Cersei, but Stannis is looking to be a more solid investment anyway.

And if you think Tywin Lannister can't get Mace Tyrell to back off by hook or by crook, then you don't know the characters.
 
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