- Location
- The Usual Room
- Pronouns
- He/Him
...alright, if anyone can make the meme with Alice replacing Jesus, I will answer a Minor OOC Question.
Of Fists and Faith - A 5th Edition D&D Quest
- Thread starter Novus Ordo Mundi
- Start date
...alright, if anyone can make the meme with Alice replacing Jesus, I will answer a Minor OOC Question.
- Location
- Indonesia
That... can potentially offend someone, and they will consider that as blasphemy. Is that really okay?
- Location
- The Usual Room
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I think so. It's a meme based on a page from a Jack Chick tract, so it not exactly blasphemy. And while I am an ex-Christian myself, if you had asked me back when I was, I'd probably still have been okay with it. Mainly because I despised Jack Chick, so I'll admit bias.
That being said, I can check with a mod just to be on the safe side. Though technically speaking, Alice has already committed blasphemy by declaring Selune a God, and doubling down by taking By The Light of Her Moon.
LucidProp
Pocky Eating MafiaDoka
Fate gets away with depicting Christian saints as scantily clad women who fall for young Japanese boys all the time, and no one's calling it blasphemous. Same goes for shows like Lucifer where Lucifer is someone you root for and empathize with, or in Helltaker where you woo demon girls in sharp suits to form a harem.
Speaking as a Christian, replacing a meme with Jesus on it with Alice is like, really low on the totem pole of things a Christian should be offended by, considering said meme has been edited to replace Jesus with a bunch of other characters before.
Sadly, I have no photoshop skills so much as I want to inquire if Sharess really is Bastet from the Egyptian pantheon, I can't make the edit myself.
Speaking as a Christian, replacing a meme with Jesus on it with Alice is like, really low on the totem pole of things a Christian should be offended by, considering said meme has been edited to replace Jesus with a bunch of other characters before.
Sadly, I have no photoshop skills so much as I want to inquire if Sharess really is Bastet from the Egyptian pantheon, I can't make the edit myself.
- Location
- The Usual Room
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Alright, so I'm splitting the intended update into two parts. Mainly because I want to wait to perform the D&D section until I can get a hold of the new Player's Handbook, which is suppose to have an early drop for game stores on the 3rd. At the very least, I'm hoping that we can see bits of it other then just the classes/species/backgrounds/ect. However, the Bible section is almost done, so I can put that up soon with a vote that can shift Alice's perspective on a certain question regarding God. It may be done as soon as tonight, but I'll probably leave it for a tomorrow morning update.
- Location
- Indonesia
I see. I heard the new 2024 handbook is just an extensive addendum to the 5th edition of Dungeons And Dragons. Is that correct?
- Location
- The Usual Room
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's a revised addition. However, I'm hoping that there will be some info on Faerun beyond that. Specifically, the religions. Though admittedly, that may be in the DMG, or the new Sword Coast books coming out Fall 2025. And I don't want to delay the quest that long.
Archeo Lumiere
The Prince's Archivist
- Location
- Lumiose City, Kalos
- Pronouns
- He/Him/They/Them
Don't get your hopes up, from what I've heard, it's almost completely incompatible with the pre-2024 5e, and much more compatible with 3.5 and Pathfinder. Also, unless they can get Doug Niles to come out of retirement again, they're going to get sued into the ground if they try to publish new Forgotten Realms content. Most of the setting info is going to be Oerth instead.It's a revised addition. However, I'm hoping that there will be some info on Faerun beyond that. Specifically, the religions. Though admittedly, that may be in the DMG, or the new Sword Coast books coming out Fall 2025. And I don't want to delay the quest that long.
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- Location
- The Usual Room
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Fuck it, it's ready. Going to give it a last pass, then it goes live, and what happens happens
- Location
- Indonesia
You can always just edit it, after all.
The Crisis of Alice, Chapter 1, Verse 2
- Location
- The Usual Room
- Pronouns
- He/Him
For a moment, you're tempted to just try and forget everything that's happened. Just hide under the cover, and shut out the world.
But you can't do that. You know all that will do is just delay the problem. You'll still be disowned, Goodfellow will still have stabbed you in the back, and you'll still have the same crisis of faith you have now. The only thing that will have changed is the time.
No, if you're going to actually deal with your problems, you actually have to deal with your problems. You can't just wait on the roof as you're sent two boats and a helicopter now, can you? And while you can't fix all of them right now - and realistically, you don't think you can fix all of them - you can at least start looking at the leads you've got and work from there.
(Problem Solving: Direct. You do not put off for tomorrow what you could do today. If there is an issue, you are more likely then not to face it head on, rather then let it linger and fester.)
Swiftly pushing the covers off the bed, you head over to your open suitcase, and immediately pull out the three objects the portal dropped off.
A copy of the Holy Bible. A copy of the Dungeons and Dragons Playbook. A Raven's Mask.
(Otherworldly Touched)
(Passive Perception:15 30)
You can smell the scent of the Abyss on them. You can see the wisps of the void between realities coming off the items.
(Otherworldly Touched partially revealed - You can sense items that have made a trip through the Abyss. Passive Perception is doubled on sensing them. ???)
Now you don't remember picking these up from the floor of the church. You weren't really in any shape to remember to pick them up. But they were there when you got home. You'd just assumed someone thought they were yours and brought them over.
You also don't remember packing them in the suitcase, in the haste of leaving your home amidst all the yelling and accusations and tears. Especially since you'd hidden them deep in your closet so they wouldn't be found. But they were there when you opened your suitcase at the hotel.
Which means these things are bound to you. No matter where you go, they will always find their way back to you. And deep down, you know this. You can feel a link. No, more like an attunement. You know these objects are yours and yours alone.
You quickly place the items on the desk, before taking a seat. Your stomach growls a little bit, but you ignore it. You need answers more than you need food. If it gets too bad, you still have ice cream you bought from last night.
And though you don't want to admit it, you're afraid you'll run into someone from your… well, there's no other way to say it, then your former church. You don't know if you have the strength to deal with them right now. Or ever, really.
You grab the Bible first, and look over the cover. You barely notice yourself whispering the word "Religion" and waving your left hand in a circle as you do. At first glance, you don't see anything too out of the ordinary. It's a gold leather cover, with the words "Holy Bible" and "New King James Version" on it.
It's when you open it to the Table of Contents that the strangeness starts.
(Religion Test (With Advantage). Roll: 8, 18. Guidance: 4) Total: 25. DCs: 10, 15, 20, 25. DC 25 Passed)
Right. These are not the books of the Bible Or more specifically, not canon ones.
As you look through the books, you recognize many of them. Standard Apocrypha books, such as Tobit, Judith, and the books on the Maccabees. But it has some other ones you have read once or twice. Like the Apocalypse of Abraham, or The Life of Adam and Eve.
But it's the New Testament where things get really wild. Oh, there's the Gospel of Thomas and the Gospel of Mary.. Then there's the Acts of Xanthippe, Polyxena, and Rebecca. That's one that if you asked anyone about, they'd probably thought you made two of those three names up!
In theory, you shouldn't know these at all. Or read them. They aren't biblical… well, they're not canon to any Evangelical church. Your father would have told you these weren't good for her to read. They'd only confuse her on what the truth is, just like when he caught you reading The Da Vinci Code. False teachings of Satan. Your mother would have just suggested not bothering at all, and let her father and future husband lead her in learning what the Bible had to say.
But as an assistant at Grace and Love's library, you had access to all sorts of books most wouldn't have even bothered to look at. Like the Apocryphal books almost no one ever even thought to look at. And you had a lot of free time.
You keep looking through the Table of Contents, as you see book after book. The Gospel of Philip. The Apocalypse of Peter, The Shepherd of Hermas. The Gospel of Be...
(Perception Test: 15. Total: 20. DC: 20. Pass)
You almost miss it, but you see the words writing themselves in. The Gospel of Bethany. Along with the page number.
For a moment, you are stunned by what you saw. Then, as soon as the thought crosses your mind, you flip the pages until you find what you are looking for: The Gospel of Bethany, fluffing writing itself into existence.
The Gospel of Bethany, The Last Scion. As told by Her prophets J…
More and more text fills itself in, as if typed by an invisible hand. Page replaces page in the Bible, and whatever had been there simply isn't anymore, replaced by a story you had never heard before. It's going at a pretty fast pace too.
Right, you wanted answers. You think to yourself, as the page turns again on it's own, as it weaves a tale about how Bethany had to stop two fallen angels from entering a church in New Jersey which would cause God to be wrong and unmake the world. Which means this gospel is probably also apocryphal, because God can not be wrong.
Right?
But doesn't Selune's existence mean there is another God besides God? Which would make Him wrong?
And that's the million dollar question you've been wrestling with since the whole thing got kicked off. Especially with what you know about Selune thanks to that portal. But that's the thing: Everything you know about Selune comes directly from the nearby presence of the portal. A portal you know only certain things about, and was actively dangerous.
But you cannot deny that what you know is true. You felt comfort last night while you looked at the moon. It was the same as when you prayed to God. Her tenets still stick in your mind. Love and acceptance, everchange yet the same. See all others as equal. She's actually real easy going. And one of many, though you have no knowledge on the other gods. And isn't the knowledge you've gained, along with the items here, more proof?
But you can't just accept God being wrong, can you? You've lived your entire life guided by His Word. When you pray, you can feel His love and grace wash over you. You are happiest when you serve the homeless at the soup kitchen, or watch the library and guide others to truth. Sure, there's some things you have questions about. But you have to trust He has the answer. If He's wrong, what does that mean for everyone who believes?
Your mind swirls as you consider everything. But eventually, after considering everything, you come to a decision.
–
Crisis Point: Can Yahweh be wrong? (This is a Crisis Point. While whatever decision you make won't solve the Crisis of Faith, it will affect how things play out.)
[] Yes, He can be wrong. However, that doesn't mean everything He said was wrong. You still believe the tenets of salvation. You will figure this out.
[] You are unsure. But parts of the Bible could be the writings of men, and not the words of Yahweh. People have been arguing about it for centuries, after all.
[] No. Yahweh can not be wrong, under any reason. You do not know how Selune fits into this, but you will figure it out.
[] There are other worlds than these. There are other timelines than these. While you are unsure everything that entails, you could make a logical guess: There is more than one Yahweh.
[] Delay answering this. You do not have enough to make a decision in any direction. You need more information.
[] Other (Write In. Subject to Heavy QM check, and possible Veto.)
--
You close the Bible, and look at the cover again. You quickly notice the words on the cover have changed. In bright red letters, it identifies itself as The Otherworld Bible.
Item Identified: The Otherworld Bible.
Right. Why wouldn't the cover change as well?
Alright, time for ice cream, and let it and your beliefs settle, then you're going to look at this D&D Playbook. And hopefully not have a Satanic panic over it.
But you can't do that. You know all that will do is just delay the problem. You'll still be disowned, Goodfellow will still have stabbed you in the back, and you'll still have the same crisis of faith you have now. The only thing that will have changed is the time.
No, if you're going to actually deal with your problems, you actually have to deal with your problems. You can't just wait on the roof as you're sent two boats and a helicopter now, can you? And while you can't fix all of them right now - and realistically, you don't think you can fix all of them - you can at least start looking at the leads you've got and work from there.
(Problem Solving: Direct. You do not put off for tomorrow what you could do today. If there is an issue, you are more likely then not to face it head on, rather then let it linger and fester.)
Swiftly pushing the covers off the bed, you head over to your open suitcase, and immediately pull out the three objects the portal dropped off.
A copy of the Holy Bible. A copy of the Dungeons and Dragons Playbook. A Raven's Mask.
(Otherworldly Touched)
(Passive Perception:
You can smell the scent of the Abyss on them. You can see the wisps of the void between realities coming off the items.
(Otherworldly Touched partially revealed - You can sense items that have made a trip through the Abyss. Passive Perception is doubled on sensing them. ???)
Now you don't remember picking these up from the floor of the church. You weren't really in any shape to remember to pick them up. But they were there when you got home. You'd just assumed someone thought they were yours and brought them over.
You also don't remember packing them in the suitcase, in the haste of leaving your home amidst all the yelling and accusations and tears. Especially since you'd hidden them deep in your closet so they wouldn't be found. But they were there when you opened your suitcase at the hotel.
Which means these things are bound to you. No matter where you go, they will always find their way back to you. And deep down, you know this. You can feel a link. No, more like an attunement. You know these objects are yours and yours alone.
You quickly place the items on the desk, before taking a seat. Your stomach growls a little bit, but you ignore it. You need answers more than you need food. If it gets too bad, you still have ice cream you bought from last night.
And though you don't want to admit it, you're afraid you'll run into someone from your… well, there's no other way to say it, then your former church. You don't know if you have the strength to deal with them right now. Or ever, really.
You grab the Bible first, and look over the cover. You barely notice yourself whispering the word "Religion" and waving your left hand in a circle as you do. At first glance, you don't see anything too out of the ordinary. It's a gold leather cover, with the words "Holy Bible" and "New King James Version" on it.
It's when you open it to the Table of Contents that the strangeness starts.
(Religion Test (With Advantage). Roll: 8, 18. Guidance: 4) Total: 25. DCs: 10, 15, 20, 25. DC 25 Passed)
Right. These are not the books of the Bible Or more specifically, not canon ones.
As you look through the books, you recognize many of them. Standard Apocrypha books, such as Tobit, Judith, and the books on the Maccabees. But it has some other ones you have read once or twice. Like the Apocalypse of Abraham, or The Life of Adam and Eve.
But it's the New Testament where things get really wild. Oh, there's the Gospel of Thomas and the Gospel of Mary.. Then there's the Acts of Xanthippe, Polyxena, and Rebecca. That's one that if you asked anyone about, they'd probably thought you made two of those three names up!
In theory, you shouldn't know these at all. Or read them. They aren't biblical… well, they're not canon to any Evangelical church. Your father would have told you these weren't good for her to read. They'd only confuse her on what the truth is, just like when he caught you reading The Da Vinci Code. False teachings of Satan. Your mother would have just suggested not bothering at all, and let her father and future husband lead her in learning what the Bible had to say.
But as an assistant at Grace and Love's library, you had access to all sorts of books most wouldn't have even bothered to look at. Like the Apocryphal books almost no one ever even thought to look at. And you had a lot of free time.
You keep looking through the Table of Contents, as you see book after book. The Gospel of Philip. The Apocalypse of Peter, The Shepherd of Hermas. The Gospel of Be...
(Perception Test: 15. Total: 20. DC: 20. Pass)
You almost miss it, but you see the words writing themselves in. The Gospel of Bethany. Along with the page number.
For a moment, you are stunned by what you saw. Then, as soon as the thought crosses your mind, you flip the pages until you find what you are looking for: The Gospel of Bethany, fluffing writing itself into existence.
The Gospel of Bethany, The Last Scion. As told by Her prophets J…
More and more text fills itself in, as if typed by an invisible hand. Page replaces page in the Bible, and whatever had been there simply isn't anymore, replaced by a story you had never heard before. It's going at a pretty fast pace too.
Right, you wanted answers. You think to yourself, as the page turns again on it's own, as it weaves a tale about how Bethany had to stop two fallen angels from entering a church in New Jersey which would cause God to be wrong and unmake the world. Which means this gospel is probably also apocryphal, because God can not be wrong.
Right?
But doesn't Selune's existence mean there is another God besides God? Which would make Him wrong?
And that's the million dollar question you've been wrestling with since the whole thing got kicked off. Especially with what you know about Selune thanks to that portal. But that's the thing: Everything you know about Selune comes directly from the nearby presence of the portal. A portal you know only certain things about, and was actively dangerous.
But you cannot deny that what you know is true. You felt comfort last night while you looked at the moon. It was the same as when you prayed to God. Her tenets still stick in your mind. Love and acceptance, everchange yet the same. See all others as equal. She's actually real easy going. And one of many, though you have no knowledge on the other gods. And isn't the knowledge you've gained, along with the items here, more proof?
But you can't just accept God being wrong, can you? You've lived your entire life guided by His Word. When you pray, you can feel His love and grace wash over you. You are happiest when you serve the homeless at the soup kitchen, or watch the library and guide others to truth. Sure, there's some things you have questions about. But you have to trust He has the answer. If He's wrong, what does that mean for everyone who believes?
Your mind swirls as you consider everything. But eventually, after considering everything, you come to a decision.
–
Crisis Point: Can Yahweh be wrong? (This is a Crisis Point. While whatever decision you make won't solve the Crisis of Faith, it will affect how things play out.)
[] Yes, He can be wrong. However, that doesn't mean everything He said was wrong. You still believe the tenets of salvation. You will figure this out.
[] You are unsure. But parts of the Bible could be the writings of men, and not the words of Yahweh. People have been arguing about it for centuries, after all.
[] No. Yahweh can not be wrong, under any reason. You do not know how Selune fits into this, but you will figure it out.
[] There are other worlds than these. There are other timelines than these. While you are unsure everything that entails, you could make a logical guess: There is more than one Yahweh.
[] Delay answering this. You do not have enough to make a decision in any direction. You need more information.
[] Other (Write In. Subject to Heavy QM check, and possible Veto.)
--
You close the Bible, and look at the cover again. You quickly notice the words on the cover have changed. In bright red letters, it identifies itself as The Otherworld Bible.
Item Identified: The Otherworld Bible.
Right. Why wouldn't the cover change as well?
Alright, time for ice cream, and let it and your beliefs settle, then you're going to look at this D&D Playbook. And hopefully not have a Satanic panic over it.
Last edited:
- Pronouns
- He
[X] Yes, He can be wrong. However, that doesn't mean everything He said was wrong. You still believe the tenets of salvation. You will figure this out.
- Location
- Raleigh, NC
[X] Delay answering this. You do not have enough to make a decision in any direction. You need more information.
- Location
- The Usual Room
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'm going to be up for about 20-30 more minutes, then I'll be headed to bed. If you got any burning questions, cool them with a fire extinguisher, then send 'em over. Otherwise, I'll see you in the morning.
- Location
- Indonesia
It's possibly these two here that I'm going to choose. Though, since I'm Muslim. I'm biased towards the former vote. Knowledge is key here.
My vote:
[X] You are unsure. But parts of the Bible could be the writings of men, and not the words of Yahweh. People have been arguing about it for centuries, after all.
[X] Delay answering this. You do not have enough to make a decision in any direction. You need more information.
My vote:
[X] You are unsure. But parts of the Bible could be the writings of men, and not the words of Yahweh. People have been arguing about it for centuries, after all.
[X] Delay answering this. You do not have enough to make a decision in any direction. You need more information.
Archeo Lumiere
The Prince's Archivist
- Location
- Lumiose City, Kalos
- Pronouns
- He/Him/They/Them
If I may: The writings of the New Testament are almost all considered to be writings of man, rather than the word of G-d Himself. My mom used to teach Sunday School, and, if her last pastor wasn't a pedo, she might still be Catholic. In her eyes, The Bible isn't meant to be taken as strict truth, as there are myriad contradictions from Book to Book. Rather, the tales contained are meant to be moral guidance, either implicitly or explicitly, and accepted as a whole, rather than passages being cherry picked for specific messaging.
I'd assume that someone so immensely familiar with every last book of The Bible, even the non canon ones, would be able to wrap her head around this train of thought. I'd also assume that she'd be aware of how passage breaks can distort the intended messages of the Bible, often intentionally.
[X] Write-in
-[X] The words of The Bible are not the direct words of G-d, but still hold valuable truths in their entirety, and His teachings still shine through.
I'm not comfortable typing any interpretation of the name of Adonai, so if anyone else wants to put this into Alice's words, assume my implicit support.
I'd assume that someone so immensely familiar with every last book of The Bible, even the non canon ones, would be able to wrap her head around this train of thought. I'd also assume that she'd be aware of how passage breaks can distort the intended messages of the Bible, often intentionally.
[X] Write-in
-[X] The words of The Bible are not the direct words of G-d, but still hold valuable truths in their entirety, and His teachings still shine through.
I'm not comfortable typing any interpretation of the name of Adonai, so if anyone else wants to put this into Alice's words, assume my implicit support.
[X] Write-in
-[X] There is God and there are gods. There is only one God but there can be many gods.
-[X] There is God and there are gods. There is only one God but there can be many gods.
LucidProp
Pocky Eating MafiaDoka
From what I understand, it is official Catholic doctrine that the canon bible, while written by fallible humans, was divinely inspired and thus as infallible as God. That doesn't mean you can't interpret it differently of course, since while God and the writers who wrote it are infallible, that isn't true for the reader.
There are some scriptures that can be read as endorsing the existence of other gods, they just aren't deserving of the upper-case title.
There are some scriptures that can be read as endorsing the existence of other gods, they just aren't deserving of the upper-case title.
Eternal_0bserver
(Unverified Bookworm)
- Location
- Earth, Northern Europe
[X] You are unsure. But parts of the Bible could be the writings of men, and not the words of Yahweh. People have been arguing about it for centuries, after all.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] You are unsure. But parts of the Bible could be the writings of men, and not the words of Yahweh. People have been arguing about it for centuries, after all.
[X] Delay answering this. You do not have enough to make a decision in any direction. You need more information.
[X] Delay answering this. You do not have enough to make a decision in any direction. You need more information.
- Location
- The Usual Room
- Pronouns
- He/Him
This is an official statement from your QM: I am on 3 hours sleep and barely coherent. Bare with me as I go throughout today.
Also, longer vote period then normal, since this is a very important vote.
Also, longer vote period then normal, since this is a very important vote.
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] You are unsure. But parts of the Bible could be the writings of men, and not the words of Yahweh. People have been arguing about it for centuries, after all.
[X] Delay answering this. You do not have enough to make a decision in any direction. You need more information.
[X] Delay answering this. You do not have enough to make a decision in any direction. You need more information.