BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Funny option is he put a good chunk of it back in the bank of Braavos.
My FOLLOW THE MONEY instincts are just vibrating in "WHERE THE FUCK IS IT PETYR???"
Now My Read Begins... (A Song of Ice and Fire Let's Read and Commentary)
- Thread starter QafianSage
- Start date
- Discussion
My FOLLOW THE MONEY instincts are just vibrating in "WHERE THE FUCK IS IT PETYR???"
Think George sorta regrets Peter, not that's not entertaining in a clear old villain way also being a incel but in the questions he raised.
Think general answer is Peter's a compulsive gambler, only he's not gambling with his money and most of it's either been squandered by a man who could not care less than the high.
Think general answer is Peter's a compulsive gambler, only he's not gambling with his money and most of it's either been squandered by a man who could not care less than the high.
Imagine if Eddard killed Littlefinger then and there. That would certainly throw a whole lot of things off the rails.
slybrarian
Creature of Fable
- Location
- A Far and Sunless Land
- Pronouns
- He/Him
What's weird is Ned has that completely backward. He's the Hand of the King and Warden of the North, unless Robert is in the room he is the most powerful one there. He could fire Petyr right there and replace him with someone different, and the most the guy could do is flee before someone else gets a look at the books. Ditto with Varys. Only Pycelle and Renly have their own power bases, and frankly Ned could 'ask' the Citadel to send someone less ancient. Robert isn't going to give a shit about personnel changes.
The best thing Ned could have done was fire everyone, especially Petyr and Janos Slynt, and replace them with loyal northerners. Or stick Petyr with the pointy end.
QafianSage
Ascending Ape
- Location
- United Kingdom
That's true to a point, and officially, but if he does that he's immediately marking himself as a danger to everyone else in the capital - this man's a reformer, this man's looking to make changes, he could come for us next - and he hasn't even got his baggage unpacked yet, let alone brought in enough force to actually enforce his will directly. There's the very real danger of getting represented as doing a coup.
Plus, we're saying this with the value of hindsight; we know these people are all plotting and scheming for their own benefit, and what their schemes are, but Ned has barely even met them. Ned doesn't even know Janos exists.
And finally, Ned just isn't that kind of person - he's not practiced with being that. It's basically what Cregan Stark did during the Hour of the Wolf at the end of the Dance, but Ned is used to managing fairly compliant, mostly loyal lords in the North, and he and his family have got them that way by being good to them for the most part; being fair and respected rulers. It earns him and his family the loyalty of their subjects even after Ned dies, his heir dies, his remaining sons are presumed dead and his daughters supposedly dead or married hither and yon. A decisive move right now would probably have been a good one, but Ned is a cautious man, a man who strives to be responsible and kind where he can, who feels his responsibilities very deeply - and might well feel his betraying his friend by undermining him like that.
Ned's performance in King's Landing reminds me a lot of analysis of Hamlet and Othello, and I think it's one of Martin's better bits of tragedy for that. The point I've seen made now and again is that if the protagonist of Hamlet was Othello, who's defined by decisive, perhaps rash action, Hamlet wouldn't be a tragedy and the plot would be resolved quickly - and just the same, stick Hamlet in the plot of Othello and his careful, considered way of doing things would probably let him see through Iago's lies and, you know, not murder his beloved wife. Ned is a very competent ruler, which exactly the wrong strengths of skill and character for the situation he's put in.
It's worth noting that Jon Arryn did attempt to get Slynt dismissed in canon, and Robert overruled him
Now Robert is a very 'path of least resistance' ruler, so if Ned just got rid of them and presented it as a fait accompli in such a way that it would be extremely inconvenient to get them back, he probably could get rid of some of them, but Quafian is right that it would look like a power grab from the outside, and would require Ned to be a radically different person.Samwell V ASOS said:
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- Location
- Arizona
- Pronouns
- Him/His
A lot of places. That's where he puts the money.
Though, given what we see in later books, he managed it well enough that the loan payments could still be made on time, unless the one doing the paying didn't feel like paying because reasons.
- Location
- Pittsburgh, PA
If anything, Ned is underreacting. Having the kingdom be in hock to half of Planetos1 is a recipe for generational hardship, especially when added to the existing issues of this world having its seasons come and go at random.
Even if things hadn't erupted into civil war, Westeros would have been pretty deep in the shit for a good long while thanks to Robert's incompetence and Jon Arryn's negligence.
Specifically, in a culture where the king isn't expected to be in constant deep debt. I know that IRL, that was once considered normal for English nobility. Maintaining the socially-expected level of extravagance tended to require more than their liquid assets could provide, so they'd take out loans and then make their vassals foot the bill for payments.
As you might expect, this often proved less than wise as a way of managing money and taxation.
As you might expect, this often proved less than wise as a way of managing money and taxation.
Points to George for having a character that has at least a tinge of premodern religious mindset.
This, I think, points to how deep the cracks in their friendship really run. Robert crossed a line that Ned considers unforgivable, and it's permanently undermined his trust and tainted his impression of the man he once considered a brother in all but blood.
Tyrion III (Edge of the World)
QafianSage
Ascending Ape
- Location
- United Kingdom
Content Warnings: Discussion of ableism
Tyrion is in the mess hall, seated with various important personages of the Watch (notably the Lord Commander Jeor Mormont, Ser Alliser and the Lord Steward, Bowen Marsh), and eating crabs shipped in from Eastwatch - if nothing else up here, they have plenty of snow to pack things in, which is a neat little logistical detail to see. Tyrion has evidently been talking about heading back home, and the Lord Commander seems regretful - he says he wishes he could get Tyrion to take the Black, and that they have need of cunning men on the Wall. Tyrion makes a joke about shipping more dwarves up there, and people laugh - except for Ser Alliser, of course, who says Tyrion mocks them, and says he has a bold tongue for 'less than half a man' who's unwilling to meet Alliser in the yard. Tyrion jokes that, why would he go to the yard, the crabs are here. People laugh again, Alliser doesn't, and he all-but challenges Tyrion to duel, saying he should 'make his japes with steel in his hand'. Tyrion jumps up on his bench and starts poking Alliser in the chest with his crab fork, saying he already has steel in his hand.
I'm honestly a little surprised they have crab forks at Castle Black. Were they sent with the crabs? Did Tyrion bring them for some reason? Do they just have a drawer of tiny forks somewhere?
Anyway, the others find this hilarious, and Alliser stalks out, furious. The laughter eventually dies down, and Jeor lightly scolds Tyrion for provoking Alliser so. Tyrion comments that Alliser really asks for it, and the conversation turns to how he's kind of a bad teacher. Jeor grumbles that they can't really move him from the post - they don't have many knights at the Watch. It's just kind of taken as read that the trainer needs to be a knight, and there's an element there of, well, the knight had better training from the start, but are there really no veterans of the Watch who could be trainers? Of course, removing Alliser to replace him with a commoner would be a horrible insult to him, and destabilize the class structure. Class (and politics) follow you to the end of the world.
We also get a little interesting lore - it's noted that both Ser Alliser and one Ser Jaremy Rykker went to the Wall due to fighting against Tywin and his Lannister forces during the sack of King's Landing. It seems that noblemen usually go to the watch either as a matter of honor (and are usually northern if they do that) or as a result of losing a war, while it's a more common punishment for common criminals.
While the group are talking, Tyrion asks for some more wine, and Bowen Marsh says he has a great thirst for a small man. The ancient, blind Maester Aemon speaks up:
In any case, the meal clears up, the others leave, and Tyrion stays to drink mulled spirits with Jeor Mormont. They discuss the arrangements for Tyrion's travel back home, with Jeor insisting on sending three men to see Tyrion safe to Winterfell, but when Tyrion suggests one of those men be Jon Snow, the Lord Commander says no - it would only make it harder for Jon to detach from his previous life. He talks a little about his own life, the family and nieces he's never seen - and it's pretty clear this whole strategy of 'out of sight out of mind' doesn't really work on an emotional level (the otherwise-unflappable man reads as being almost on the verge of tears after just thinking about his family), and might be more to do with not providing himself or others the opportunity to desert.
Anyway, Tyrion realises Jeor isn't really doing this out of the kindness of his heart, and asks how he can repay what he's been given. Jeor says bluntly that he hopes Tyrion will talk to his father and his brother about the plight of the Watch, and get more men sent to the Wall. Jeor talks about how he sent Waymar Royce out with two men he trusted implicitly, and one didn't come back and the other deserted. He's clearly shaken, and worried by the fact he has desperately few men to defend the length of the Wall. And above all, Jeor is scared - he doesn't trust either Alliser Thorne or Bowen Marsh to take up the Lord Commandership when he's gone, and the Watch itself has become "an army of sullen boys and tired old men". And he remembers a proverb that the longer the summer, the longer the winter - and the last summer has been nine years long. Jeor all-but begs Tyrion to make the southerners understand the peril the Wall and the Watch are in, and hints about dark dreams, wildlings fleeing something and sightings of white walkers.
The conversation wraps up after that, and Tyrion heads out into the bitter cold. Suddenly, a yearning takes hold of him to see over the Wall again, before his last chance is gone, and he goes to the iron cage which is winched up as a kind of lift. As it rises, Tyrion sees the castle's half-ruinous state spreading out beneath him, and further off the village of Mole's Town, and the vastness of the North beyond.
Finally, he reaches the top, the cage is pulled in and opened, and Tyrion and the men at the top of the Wall greet each other - not too kindly, given that the men had to winch him all the way up. He sets off along the wall, westwards on a whim, and notes that even up here, things have become ruined; a catapult had its arm taken off for repair, and was left. Then, he's challenged by a guard - who turns out to be Jon, heavily-swaddled in warm clothing, accompanied by Ghost. Tyrion greets them both, and asks why Jon is up here. Jon explains that Alliser has seen to it that he gets more watches - but despite Jon's tiredness, training the other boys has been going well. Jon knows more of their names now, too, and they're actively coming to him for advice, while Alliser hadn't even taught some to hold a sword properly.
They walk together, and talk as they do. Jon asks Tyrion to tell Robb he's going to command the Night's Watch, so Robb can take up needlework and leave his sword behind. He asks Tyrion to tell baby Rickon where Jon's gone, and that he can have Jon's things if he wants. Tyrion comments that Jon could put all this in a letter, and Jon says Rickon can't read, and Bran... He doesn't know what to say to Bran. He asks Tyrion to help him. Tyrion protests that, he's not a maester, or a magician, to heal him. Jon says that Tyrion gave him help when he needed it. Tyrion says that all he gave Jon was words - and Jon asks him, in that case, to give Bran his words too. Tyrion seems rather touched, and promises to "give Bran whatever small help is in my power", and names Jon a friend.
Afterwards, Jon goes to the edge of the wall, and Tyrion goes with him to look down at the forest below, where it's been cut back - both for firewood, and to provide a space for clear sight leading up to the Wall. Elsewhere, where the Wall is neglected, the forest has crept closer, and it's described as being more than a little spooky:
Jon talks about his uncle being out there; how his first watch he'd hoped to see Benjen come back - but he hasn't, not that night, nor all the nights since. Tyrion says to give him time. Wolves howl in the waste, and Ghost doesn't answer. Jon says that if Benjen doesn't come back, Jon and Ghost will go to find him. Tyrion says he believes Jon - but thinks, Who will go find you?
So yeah, that's the chapter. Tyrion has a bit of an emotional time, we get to see how things are progessing with Jon, and we get more hints of rising trouble beyond the Wall. Overall, I thought it was a very good chapter - there's some remarkably affecting bits; you can really feel the desolation and natural power of the land beyond the Wall, the presence of the Old Gods or something like them, nameless and faceless but strong nonetheless.
Next chapter we have Arya II (been a while since we've had her PoV), in which Needle is revealed, and Arya meets her 'dancing instructor', Syrio Forel.
Tyrion is in the mess hall, seated with various important personages of the Watch (notably the Lord Commander Jeor Mormont, Ser Alliser and the Lord Steward, Bowen Marsh), and eating crabs shipped in from Eastwatch - if nothing else up here, they have plenty of snow to pack things in, which is a neat little logistical detail to see. Tyrion has evidently been talking about heading back home, and the Lord Commander seems regretful - he says he wishes he could get Tyrion to take the Black, and that they have need of cunning men on the Wall. Tyrion makes a joke about shipping more dwarves up there, and people laugh - except for Ser Alliser, of course, who says Tyrion mocks them, and says he has a bold tongue for 'less than half a man' who's unwilling to meet Alliser in the yard. Tyrion jokes that, why would he go to the yard, the crabs are here. People laugh again, Alliser doesn't, and he all-but challenges Tyrion to duel, saying he should 'make his japes with steel in his hand'. Tyrion jumps up on his bench and starts poking Alliser in the chest with his crab fork, saying he already has steel in his hand.
I'm honestly a little surprised they have crab forks at Castle Black. Were they sent with the crabs? Did Tyrion bring them for some reason? Do they just have a drawer of tiny forks somewhere?
Anyway, the others find this hilarious, and Alliser stalks out, furious. The laughter eventually dies down, and Jeor lightly scolds Tyrion for provoking Alliser so. Tyrion comments that Alliser really asks for it, and the conversation turns to how he's kind of a bad teacher. Jeor grumbles that they can't really move him from the post - they don't have many knights at the Watch. It's just kind of taken as read that the trainer needs to be a knight, and there's an element there of, well, the knight had better training from the start, but are there really no veterans of the Watch who could be trainers? Of course, removing Alliser to replace him with a commoner would be a horrible insult to him, and destabilize the class structure. Class (and politics) follow you to the end of the world.
We also get a little interesting lore - it's noted that both Ser Alliser and one Ser Jaremy Rykker went to the Wall due to fighting against Tywin and his Lannister forces during the sack of King's Landing. It seems that noblemen usually go to the watch either as a matter of honor (and are usually northern if they do that) or as a result of losing a war, while it's a more common punishment for common criminals.
While the group are talking, Tyrion asks for some more wine, and Bowen Marsh says he has a great thirst for a small man. The ancient, blind Maester Aemon speaks up:
It's an interesting moment, and an interesting instance of vulnerability on Tyrion's part. A lot of the time he seems to take jokes about his stature and condition in stride, much as he advised Jon to, but this seems to take him off guard and cut to the heart of him - he doesn't get compliments like that, people acknowledging his worth and power, a lot.
In any case, the meal clears up, the others leave, and Tyrion stays to drink mulled spirits with Jeor Mormont. They discuss the arrangements for Tyrion's travel back home, with Jeor insisting on sending three men to see Tyrion safe to Winterfell, but when Tyrion suggests one of those men be Jon Snow, the Lord Commander says no - it would only make it harder for Jon to detach from his previous life. He talks a little about his own life, the family and nieces he's never seen - and it's pretty clear this whole strategy of 'out of sight out of mind' doesn't really work on an emotional level (the otherwise-unflappable man reads as being almost on the verge of tears after just thinking about his family), and might be more to do with not providing himself or others the opportunity to desert.
Anyway, Tyrion realises Jeor isn't really doing this out of the kindness of his heart, and asks how he can repay what he's been given. Jeor says bluntly that he hopes Tyrion will talk to his father and his brother about the plight of the Watch, and get more men sent to the Wall. Jeor talks about how he sent Waymar Royce out with two men he trusted implicitly, and one didn't come back and the other deserted. He's clearly shaken, and worried by the fact he has desperately few men to defend the length of the Wall. And above all, Jeor is scared - he doesn't trust either Alliser Thorne or Bowen Marsh to take up the Lord Commandership when he's gone, and the Watch itself has become "an army of sullen boys and tired old men". And he remembers a proverb that the longer the summer, the longer the winter - and the last summer has been nine years long. Jeor all-but begs Tyrion to make the southerners understand the peril the Wall and the Watch are in, and hints about dark dreams, wildlings fleeing something and sightings of white walkers.
The conversation wraps up after that, and Tyrion heads out into the bitter cold. Suddenly, a yearning takes hold of him to see over the Wall again, before his last chance is gone, and he goes to the iron cage which is winched up as a kind of lift. As it rises, Tyrion sees the castle's half-ruinous state spreading out beneath him, and further off the village of Mole's Town, and the vastness of the North beyond.
Finally, he reaches the top, the cage is pulled in and opened, and Tyrion and the men at the top of the Wall greet each other - not too kindly, given that the men had to winch him all the way up. He sets off along the wall, westwards on a whim, and notes that even up here, things have become ruined; a catapult had its arm taken off for repair, and was left. Then, he's challenged by a guard - who turns out to be Jon, heavily-swaddled in warm clothing, accompanied by Ghost. Tyrion greets them both, and asks why Jon is up here. Jon explains that Alliser has seen to it that he gets more watches - but despite Jon's tiredness, training the other boys has been going well. Jon knows more of their names now, too, and they're actively coming to him for advice, while Alliser hadn't even taught some to hold a sword properly.
They walk together, and talk as they do. Jon asks Tyrion to tell Robb he's going to command the Night's Watch, so Robb can take up needlework and leave his sword behind. He asks Tyrion to tell baby Rickon where Jon's gone, and that he can have Jon's things if he wants. Tyrion comments that Jon could put all this in a letter, and Jon says Rickon can't read, and Bran... He doesn't know what to say to Bran. He asks Tyrion to help him. Tyrion protests that, he's not a maester, or a magician, to heal him. Jon says that Tyrion gave him help when he needed it. Tyrion says that all he gave Jon was words - and Jon asks him, in that case, to give Bran his words too. Tyrion seems rather touched, and promises to "give Bran whatever small help is in my power", and names Jon a friend.
Afterwards, Jon goes to the edge of the wall, and Tyrion goes with him to look down at the forest below, where it's been cut back - both for firewood, and to provide a space for clear sight leading up to the Wall. Elsewhere, where the Wall is neglected, the forest has crept closer, and it's described as being more than a little spooky:
The desolation and abandonment of it makes Tyrion shiver, not from cold, and he can almost believe the talk of white walkers and Others. Talking about 'grumkins and snarks' no longer feels funny.
Jon talks about his uncle being out there; how his first watch he'd hoped to see Benjen come back - but he hasn't, not that night, nor all the nights since. Tyrion says to give him time. Wolves howl in the waste, and Ghost doesn't answer. Jon says that if Benjen doesn't come back, Jon and Ghost will go to find him. Tyrion says he believes Jon - but thinks, Who will go find you?
So yeah, that's the chapter. Tyrion has a bit of an emotional time, we get to see how things are progessing with Jon, and we get more hints of rising trouble beyond the Wall. Overall, I thought it was a very good chapter - there's some remarkably affecting bits; you can really feel the desolation and natural power of the land beyond the Wall, the presence of the Old Gods or something like them, nameless and faceless but strong nonetheless.
Next chapter we have Arya II (been a while since we've had her PoV), in which Needle is revealed, and Arya meets her 'dancing instructor', Syrio Forel.
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Mechasaurian
Big Bossu
- Location
- Lost among fields of history
- Pronouns
- They/Them
This chapter seems almost tragic in light of Tyrion's later experiences. At the Wall, Tyrion displays a bit of emotional vulnerability, makes a friend in Jon, and seems to start taking the problems of the Night's Watch and the impending threat of the Others seriously.
But as we know, when he goes back south, all of that is going to fall by the wayside as Tyrion gets (again) caught up in the snake pit of southern politics and the impending pressures of civil war.
His time among the Night's Watch seemed to be beginning to make Tyrion a better person, while his time in King's Landing will calcify him as a worse one.
But as we know, when he goes back south, all of that is going to fall by the wayside as Tyrion gets (again) caught up in the snake pit of southern politics and the impending pressures of civil war.
His time among the Night's Watch seemed to be beginning to make Tyrion a better person, while his time in King's Landing will calcify him as a worse one.
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Arya II (The Dancing Master)
QafianSage
Ascending Ape
- Location
- United Kingdom
Content Warnings: None
Arya can tell her father has been having a bad time with the council, because he's come to the dinner table late again. He and his household are eating dinner in the Small Hall (not actually small, especially given Ned's household fills only a quarter of the benches). Jory brings up rumors of a tournament soon, and Ned complains that it's the last thing he would have wished - while Sansa is ecstatic. She asks Ned if she can go, and Ned says she shouldn't - but Septa Mordane takes Sansa's side, arguing that Princess Myrcella will be there, and it would be seen amiss if members of Ned's family weren't there at a tournament organised in his honor. Ned acquiesces, saying Sansa and Arya can go - but Arya says she doesn't care to go; Joffrey will be there, and she hates him (understandably). Sansa snipes at Arya, and Ned blows his top a bit, telling them he's tired of their conflict, they're sisters and they should behave as such. Both of them seem to be holding back tears, and Ned leaves the hall soon after.
Sansa and her friend Jeyne Poole strike up a conversation, as do other people at the table. No-one talks to Arya, and she doesn't talk to anyone. She feels desperately alone, and wishes she could take her meals in her rooms. She misses her brothers; she's got no-one left but Sansa, and Sansa won't talk to her. She remembers how back at Winterfell Ned made a point of bringing a different person up to the high table each night, to build a rapport with his people. Arya used to love listening to people talking about all kinds of things - but now, all she can think of listening to them is how they let Lady die, and Mycah (it seems Jeyne has been telling some remarkably nasty stories, about how Mycah was supposedly "cut up in so many pieces that they'd given him back to the butcher in a bad, and at first the poor man had thought it was a pig they'd slaightered"), and she doesn't feel like she can trust anyone anymore.
It all gets too much for Arya suddenly, and she goes to leave. Septa Mordane calls her back, Arya stiffly asks if she can be excused, she's not hungry. Mordane says no; she has to come back and clean her plate. "You clean it!" Arya shouts, and runs off. She dodges up through the castle until she reaches her room, and drops the crossbar over it. The guard (one of Ned's men) asks if something's wrong, then leaves when Arya says everything's fine. Arya goes to her chest and pulls out Needle - but that just makes her think of Mycah, and that whole horrible situation.
Septa Mordane turns up, pounding at the door and demanding to be let in. Arya screams at her to go away, and Mordane does so after promising that Arya will regret this. Arya looks at the window, and wishes she could climb like Bran could - then she could sneak down, steal some food, and with her good things try and get away from this place. Find Nymeria in the woods, go back to Winterfell, or onto Jon at the Wall.
Another knock at the door; this time it's Ned speaking, and this time Arya opens up the door for him. He asks to come in, and Arya nods, then he asks whose sword it is she's holding. She says it's hers, and he says to give it to him. Reluctantly, she does so, and Ned turns it this way and that, noticing that it has Mikken's mark. He comments that his daughter is being armed from his own forge, without him knowing about it, and asks who gave it to her. Arya won't say, and after a while Ned says that this isn't a toy for children, least of all a girl. Arya protests that she wasn't playing. Ned says he should snap the sword over his knee and end "this nonsense". Arya says that Needle wouldn't break - but she's clearly afraid.
"It has a name, does it?" Ned asks, and sighs. He says that Arya reminds him a lot of his sister Lyanna, and his brother Brandon - but the same wildness in her took them to early graves. He says Arya looks like Lyanna.
Arya is startled, saying that Lyanna was beautiful - not something ever said of her. Ned agrees that she was; "beautiful and willful and dead before her time." He holds out the sword and asks Arya what she meant to do with it. Who did she hope to skewer - her sister? Septa Mordane? Does she even know how to swordfight? Arya says she was trying to learn, that she asked Mycah to practice with her - and then she breaks down a little, crying about how it was her fault that Mycah died; if she hadn't asked him to practice with her, he wouldn't have died. Ned kneels down and holds her tight, saying it's not her fault, she should grieve for her friend, but not blame herself; the murder is the Hound's, and the queen's. Arya says she hates them; the Hound, the Queen, Prince Joffrey - Sansa, too, for lying. Ned points out that we all lie; she lied about Nymeria running off - and that prompts another misreable confession from Arya; how she and Jory had had to throw rocks at Nymeria to stop her following them, and to go off to be with other wolves near the Trident.
Ned lets her go, and sits down by the window, telling Arya to sit on the bed; he needs to have a real talk with her. He reminds her of the Stark motto, 'Winter is Coming', and says that they are in bad times for their house. They need to pull together here; in his words, the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives - they can't afford squabbles right now, not with enemies around them. Arya admits she doesn't actually hate Sansa, and Ned says that Arya's acting out was alright at home - but here it's a different matter. Arya promises she'll do her best - and Ned gives her Needle back. He jokes that if he took it away, he's sure he'd find a morningstar under her pillow instead.
The next day, Arya apologises to Septa Mordane for being so rude to her, and three days later Ned's steward sends Arya to the hall where she was eating at the start of the chapter. A man appears, with a Braavosi accent, and two thin wooden swords, admonishing Arya for being late. Arya asks who he is, and he says he is her dancing master. He tosses her one of the wooden swords, and she misses it. He says tomorrow she'll catch it. Arya picks it up, and finds it's heavy, so grasps it with both hands. The man admonishes her again, saying not to hold it like a greatsword; use one hand. Arya says it's too heavy, and the man says it's heavy enough to make her strong, and for the balance.
He begins the lesson properly, directing her how to hold the sword - she puts it in her left hand, and he approves. He tells her to stand side-on, to give a smaller target, then corrects her grip. Arya asks, what happens if she drops it, and the man says that the steel must be part of her arm - can she drop a part of her arm? And he finally introduces himself: Syrio Forel, nine years First Sword of Braavos (that is, head bodyguard to the ruler of the city). Then he criticises Arya again for holding her sword like a battle-axe, and gives a bit of a monologue on the nature of his fighting style:
So, overall this is a scene very focused on Arya, and it's a lot of setup for her later story and arc. Eddard is trying to make peace between his daughters here, so they can present more of a united front, and part of that is trying to regain some of Arya's trust by letting her be herself a bit more in a way that channels her energy and 'willfulness' - but it's notable that this isn't a case of him overcoming gendered prejudice particularly; his section in the chapter is pretty steeped in ideas about women and girls, and the dangers of being 'willful'. With Syrio Forel he sources Arya an excellent teacher, but not really a functional one - Braavosi water dancing is a style meant for duelling lightly-armored opponents, not fighting in a battlefield style, or against Westerosi armor. It's a perfectly deadly style, in its context, but this is an indulgence for a daughter, not something meant to help Arya really challenge the station laid out for her.
For Arya's personal character arc, Syrio's ideas of 'being a sword' are really the start of a rather dark path - later on, she becomes a murderer and assassin, using Needle to kill, and Syrio's teachings are a part of that as much as her later encounters with the Faceless Men. There's even some theories that Syrio and Jaqen H'ghar (or, rather, the Faceless Man Arya later encounters calling themselves Jaqen H'ghar) are the same person, scoping out or grooming Arya to become Faceless much later on - but I think this is very unlikely; it just doesn't make much sense to pick out some random Westerosi kid, and how would they even know about her? It's more that Arya's character arc is about violence and what it does to the people who commit it, so it makes sense for her to encounter mentor-figures who teach her how violence can empower her - now in a pretty innocent form, later in Jaqen letting her pick targets for her to assassinate.
Next chapter is Daenerys III, in which she starts to get some independence from her brother, and Martin makes some Choices about how to portray Dany's development. God help us all.
Arya can tell her father has been having a bad time with the council, because he's come to the dinner table late again. He and his household are eating dinner in the Small Hall (not actually small, especially given Ned's household fills only a quarter of the benches). Jory brings up rumors of a tournament soon, and Ned complains that it's the last thing he would have wished - while Sansa is ecstatic. She asks Ned if she can go, and Ned says she shouldn't - but Septa Mordane takes Sansa's side, arguing that Princess Myrcella will be there, and it would be seen amiss if members of Ned's family weren't there at a tournament organised in his honor. Ned acquiesces, saying Sansa and Arya can go - but Arya says she doesn't care to go; Joffrey will be there, and she hates him (understandably). Sansa snipes at Arya, and Ned blows his top a bit, telling them he's tired of their conflict, they're sisters and they should behave as such. Both of them seem to be holding back tears, and Ned leaves the hall soon after.
Sansa and her friend Jeyne Poole strike up a conversation, as do other people at the table. No-one talks to Arya, and she doesn't talk to anyone. She feels desperately alone, and wishes she could take her meals in her rooms. She misses her brothers; she's got no-one left but Sansa, and Sansa won't talk to her. She remembers how back at Winterfell Ned made a point of bringing a different person up to the high table each night, to build a rapport with his people. Arya used to love listening to people talking about all kinds of things - but now, all she can think of listening to them is how they let Lady die, and Mycah (it seems Jeyne has been telling some remarkably nasty stories, about how Mycah was supposedly "cut up in so many pieces that they'd given him back to the butcher in a bad, and at first the poor man had thought it was a pig they'd slaightered"), and she doesn't feel like she can trust anyone anymore.
It all gets too much for Arya suddenly, and she goes to leave. Septa Mordane calls her back, Arya stiffly asks if she can be excused, she's not hungry. Mordane says no; she has to come back and clean her plate. "You clean it!" Arya shouts, and runs off. She dodges up through the castle until she reaches her room, and drops the crossbar over it. The guard (one of Ned's men) asks if something's wrong, then leaves when Arya says everything's fine. Arya goes to her chest and pulls out Needle - but that just makes her think of Mycah, and that whole horrible situation.
Septa Mordane turns up, pounding at the door and demanding to be let in. Arya screams at her to go away, and Mordane does so after promising that Arya will regret this. Arya looks at the window, and wishes she could climb like Bran could - then she could sneak down, steal some food, and with her good things try and get away from this place. Find Nymeria in the woods, go back to Winterfell, or onto Jon at the Wall.
Another knock at the door; this time it's Ned speaking, and this time Arya opens up the door for him. He asks to come in, and Arya nods, then he asks whose sword it is she's holding. She says it's hers, and he says to give it to him. Reluctantly, she does so, and Ned turns it this way and that, noticing that it has Mikken's mark. He comments that his daughter is being armed from his own forge, without him knowing about it, and asks who gave it to her. Arya won't say, and after a while Ned says that this isn't a toy for children, least of all a girl. Arya protests that she wasn't playing. Ned says he should snap the sword over his knee and end "this nonsense". Arya says that Needle wouldn't break - but she's clearly afraid.
"It has a name, does it?" Ned asks, and sighs. He says that Arya reminds him a lot of his sister Lyanna, and his brother Brandon - but the same wildness in her took them to early graves. He says Arya looks like Lyanna.
Arya is startled, saying that Lyanna was beautiful - not something ever said of her. Ned agrees that she was; "beautiful and willful and dead before her time." He holds out the sword and asks Arya what she meant to do with it. Who did she hope to skewer - her sister? Septa Mordane? Does she even know how to swordfight? Arya says she was trying to learn, that she asked Mycah to practice with her - and then she breaks down a little, crying about how it was her fault that Mycah died; if she hadn't asked him to practice with her, he wouldn't have died. Ned kneels down and holds her tight, saying it's not her fault, she should grieve for her friend, but not blame herself; the murder is the Hound's, and the queen's. Arya says she hates them; the Hound, the Queen, Prince Joffrey - Sansa, too, for lying. Ned points out that we all lie; she lied about Nymeria running off - and that prompts another misreable confession from Arya; how she and Jory had had to throw rocks at Nymeria to stop her following them, and to go off to be with other wolves near the Trident.
Ned lets her go, and sits down by the window, telling Arya to sit on the bed; he needs to have a real talk with her. He reminds her of the Stark motto, 'Winter is Coming', and says that they are in bad times for their house. They need to pull together here; in his words, the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives - they can't afford squabbles right now, not with enemies around them. Arya admits she doesn't actually hate Sansa, and Ned says that Arya's acting out was alright at home - but here it's a different matter. Arya promises she'll do her best - and Ned gives her Needle back. He jokes that if he took it away, he's sure he'd find a morningstar under her pillow instead.
The next day, Arya apologises to Septa Mordane for being so rude to her, and three days later Ned's steward sends Arya to the hall where she was eating at the start of the chapter. A man appears, with a Braavosi accent, and two thin wooden swords, admonishing Arya for being late. Arya asks who he is, and he says he is her dancing master. He tosses her one of the wooden swords, and she misses it. He says tomorrow she'll catch it. Arya picks it up, and finds it's heavy, so grasps it with both hands. The man admonishes her again, saying not to hold it like a greatsword; use one hand. Arya says it's too heavy, and the man says it's heavy enough to make her strong, and for the balance.
He begins the lesson properly, directing her how to hold the sword - she puts it in her left hand, and he approves. He tells her to stand side-on, to give a smaller target, then corrects her grip. Arya asks, what happens if she drops it, and the man says that the steel must be part of her arm - can she drop a part of her arm? And he finally introduces himself: Syrio Forel, nine years First Sword of Braavos (that is, head bodyguard to the ruler of the city). Then he criticises Arya again for holding her sword like a battle-axe, and gives a bit of a monologue on the nature of his fighting style:
Arya tries, and fails, for the next several hours - and the next day, the real work begins.
So, overall this is a scene very focused on Arya, and it's a lot of setup for her later story and arc. Eddard is trying to make peace between his daughters here, so they can present more of a united front, and part of that is trying to regain some of Arya's trust by letting her be herself a bit more in a way that channels her energy and 'willfulness' - but it's notable that this isn't a case of him overcoming gendered prejudice particularly; his section in the chapter is pretty steeped in ideas about women and girls, and the dangers of being 'willful'. With Syrio Forel he sources Arya an excellent teacher, but not really a functional one - Braavosi water dancing is a style meant for duelling lightly-armored opponents, not fighting in a battlefield style, or against Westerosi armor. It's a perfectly deadly style, in its context, but this is an indulgence for a daughter, not something meant to help Arya really challenge the station laid out for her.
For Arya's personal character arc, Syrio's ideas of 'being a sword' are really the start of a rather dark path - later on, she becomes a murderer and assassin, using Needle to kill, and Syrio's teachings are a part of that as much as her later encounters with the Faceless Men. There's even some theories that Syrio and Jaqen H'ghar (or, rather, the Faceless Man Arya later encounters calling themselves Jaqen H'ghar) are the same person, scoping out or grooming Arya to become Faceless much later on - but I think this is very unlikely; it just doesn't make much sense to pick out some random Westerosi kid, and how would they even know about her? It's more that Arya's character arc is about violence and what it does to the people who commit it, so it makes sense for her to encounter mentor-figures who teach her how violence can empower her - now in a pretty innocent form, later in Jaqen letting her pick targets for her to assassinate.
Next chapter is Daenerys III, in which she starts to get some independence from her brother, and Martin makes some Choices about how to portray Dany's development. God help us all.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
*Horrified screaming noises*
Honestly the thing that sticks out to me here is how, by looking into Nymeria a bit more, that even though there is an element of breaking to this event where rocks are thrown at her - the link doesn't ever actually break.
Its also interesting to ponder an idea of all of the Stark siblings having the potential to be wargs and skinchangers, but only Bran being in a situation to actually practice it. Not sure the book really supports that read, but it certainly is a fun contemplation.
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QafianSage
Ascending Ape
- Location
- United Kingdom
We don't really know what goes on with Robb, because we don't get any PoV chapters from him, Rickon is a toddler with no PoVs (though we do get told he's becoming rather wild after he ends up on Skagos - which might be partly due to the warg-bond), and whatever bond Sansa had with Lady was nipped in the bud by her death, but Arya later gets warg-dreams from Nymeria, Jon gets warg-dreams from Ghost, and Bran of course is an extremely powerful skinchanger and greenseer. So it's very likely they all had some level of warging potential.
Good observations.
On the topic of Bravos and Arya, I can't exactly remember the general name of this theory but there's a interesting view that Essos or much speciafically certain parts of it have a unequal relationship with Westeros with the latter on the lower end.
Mainly as does seem plenty of Essoi have gotten quite comfortable integrated into the upper strata such as Varys being on the council, Syrio's employment and Peter being the grandson of a Bravosi sellsword. Granted think such a theory is seeing patterns in a certain way but think it might have a point for the future of the series in how well Essoi can be intergrated in the local system given how Arya changes and Dany's storyline.
On the topic of Bravos and Arya, I can't exactly remember the general name of this theory but there's a interesting view that Essos or much speciafically certain parts of it have a unequal relationship with Westeros with the latter on the lower end.
Mainly as does seem plenty of Essoi have gotten quite comfortable integrated into the upper strata such as Varys being on the council, Syrio's employment and Peter being the grandson of a Bravosi sellsword. Granted think such a theory is seeing patterns in a certain way but think it might have a point for the future of the series in how well Essoi can be intergrated in the local system given how Arya changes and Dany's storyline.
- Location
- Arizona
- Pronouns
- Him/His
I think it's implied that Rickon is warging into Shaggydog, or at least that he has the potential, since he has a dream later in this book that is oddly prophetic.
Of course, Rickon doesn't really get used too much, so no idea where he is supppsed to go.
Of course, Rickon doesn't really get used too much, so no idea where he is supppsed to go.
Daenerys III (Too Young For This Shit, Dothraki Drift - Now With Extra Empowerment)
QafianSage
Ascending Ape
- Location
- United Kingdom
Content Warnings: Discussion of marital rape, and underage marriage, sex and pregnancy, mention of suicidal ideation
As with the previous Daenerys chapters, this one gets into some pretty heavy subjects, and not terribly gracefully. I'll be putting the worst bits into spoilers so they're more easily avoided if you wish to but... Yeah.
We begin the chapter with Daenerys alongside Ser Jorah Mormont, mounted and looking out over the vastness of the central grasslands of Essos, the 'Dothraki Sea'. Jorah waxes poetic about the various grasses that make up the 'Sea', while Dany appreciates the vista itself. Her contemplation is broken by calls from behind, where Dany looks back to see her brother (struggling), four young archers of her khas (personal guard, assigned by Drogo) and her handmaid Irri. Daenerys realizes she doesn't want to deal with her brother's shit right now - she's actually feeling good for once - and says to Jorah to tell the others she commands them to stay, while she spurs off into the grasslands.
We get a bit of a flashback here, where Dany thinks back over the process of adjustment to this new life. It was unpleasant for her - Dany was never a rider before, and she was plunged straight from that into riding every day, for most of the day, as Drogo's khalasar moved across the land towards Vaes Dothrak, leading her to suffer blisters, chafing and so on, even with one of her handmaids ordered to help her learn the Dothraki way of riding.
Between those being her nights, and her days being filled with constant riding while suffering blisters and saddle-sores, Dany is understandably miserable, and one night even considers suicide. That night, however, she dreams of a black dragon stained with blood, whose breath burns her away but without pain, and the next day she seems to hurt a little less. She has a moment of odd fascination with the black-and-red dragon egg she was given at her wedding, but following that day her suffering starts to lessen a little; her blisters turn to calluses, she becomes better at riding and suffers fewer sores, and she starts to actually notice and enjoy the beauty of the areas they pass through as they travel. They'd been going for a month or so by that point, and we get a bit of a montage of different locations Dany has passed through.
Back in the present, Dany is enjoying being alone on the plains, and climbs down off her horse to let her graze, while she takes off her boots to feel the dirt.
Suddenly, Viserys appears, jumping off his horse to grab and shake Dany, screaming at her about daring to give him commands. There's a point of comparison drawn here in the next, between Dany in her practical riding leathers, and Viserys in his silks and ringmail. Viserys goes on about how she's woken the dragon, he's the king of the Seven Kingdoms, he won't hear orders from a 'horselord's slut'; he goes to pinch Dany like he did before, and she shoves him away, hard. He's utterly stunned for a moment, then becomes incandescent with rage - only for a horsewhip to wrap around his throat and pull him away, as one of Dany's khas, Jhogo, grabs him and asks Dany a question (through Jhiqui, her handmaiden, translating) of whether she would like him dead.
Dany says no, and the other riders joke about taking one of Viserys' ears for his rudeness. Viserys is on his knees at this point, trying to pull the whip from around his neck as it's choking him. Dany orders for him not to be harmed, and Jhogo pulls the whip away, spinning Viserys around. While he's recovering, Jorah says that he warned Viserys, but he ignored him. Dany accepts this, and looks down at Viserys, suddenly finding him utterly pathetic, and wondering how she could have feared him. She orders Jorah to take Viserys' horse, so that he has to walk back to the khalasar - a sign of deadly dishonor amongst the Dothraki. Viserys understands this at least, and is incensed, ordering Jorah to kill the Dothraki around, and to hit and hurt Dany. He looks between the two of them, and takes Dany's side, taking Viserys' horse.
As they ride away, Dany wonders whether he'll be able to find his way back; Jorah points out that it's not exactly hard to follow their trail, and even if he didn't the khalasar could easily find him. Dany thinks about how the plains are a part of the Dothraki (interesting bit of thinking there; again reminds me a lot of the way that Robert E. Howard often created these direct connections between characters and the land they come from), and her now - but also begins to worry again, about how angry Viserys will be when he gets back. She talks to Jorah about 'waking the dragon', and Jorah calls Viserys 'less than the shadow of a snake'. Partly that's just disliking Viserys, but there's also a strong level of self-hatred here for the position he's in as well; he wonders what that makes such a man's servants. Dany protests that Viserys is the true king, and Jorah asks her to think about whether he would be a good one.
Dany talks about what Illyrio has been saying to Viserys; that the common people are sewing dragon banners and praying for the Targaryens to return. Jorah says that the common people pray for rain and healthy children and a summer that never ends, and to be left in peace. Dany thinks on that for a while, then asks Jorah what he prays for. He answers "Home" - and Dany thinks of going home too; but the homes she thinks of are the Red Keep and Dragonstone as she's heard about them from Viserys, merged with the house with the red door in Braavos she remembers from her own childhood. Finally, she gives voice to the idea that Viserys will never be able to take them home - he can't lead armies, he has no money, and the only knight who follows him reviles him.
When they get back to the khalasar, Dany gives her horse over to the slaves (this is just mentioned casually; there doesn't seem to be any real thought on the matter of slavery from Dany at this point - which makes sense; even if she's Westerosi in terms of heritage, she's grown up in slave-holding cities in Essos) and goes into her tent. Sunlight glints on her dragon eggs, and for a moment she sees a vision of "a thousand droplets of scarlet flame", which vanish a moment later. She moves to touch the eggs, and feels they're warm, almost hot - but puts it down to the sun warming them.
Dany orders her handmaids to draw her a bath and, once it's steaming, climbs in while they wash her body. She strikes up a conversation about dragons, and hears several stories about them - asking whether some might remain in the far east, but is told no. There's a very in-universe orientialist element here, too:
In any case, when Dany gets out of the bath, she asks Doreah (a Lysene slave Viserys gave her for her wedding) to stay and eat with her and, it's heavily implied that she asks her for advice on sex.
So, yeah. That's the chapter. Glad I got through it. Dany's getting some character development here which I mostly like - I just wish Martin had chosen to portray it in other ways than having her willingly engage with her rape, or portraying female empowerment through being alright with people looking at her naked and having sex.
It's also another example of Martin doing this thing where he associates the Dothraki with behaviour which is used as a shorthand for barbarism or being 'animal-like' in a way that's been deployed a lot in colonial projects; he talks about Drogo 'riding' Dany as he would a horse, basically says they don't have modesty taboos and so on. Which is another thing I wish he'd do less - the Dothraki really do come across as less interesting, less flesh-out Mongols. Somehow they feel even less nuanced than the Mardu over in MtG Tarkir - and they're a Mongol-samurai mashup!
Anyway, next chapter is Bran IV, in which Bran starts to deal with the new realities of his situation.
As with the previous Daenerys chapters, this one gets into some pretty heavy subjects, and not terribly gracefully. I'll be putting the worst bits into spoilers so they're more easily avoided if you wish to but... Yeah.
We begin the chapter with Daenerys alongside Ser Jorah Mormont, mounted and looking out over the vastness of the central grasslands of Essos, the 'Dothraki Sea'. Jorah waxes poetic about the various grasses that make up the 'Sea', while Dany appreciates the vista itself. Her contemplation is broken by calls from behind, where Dany looks back to see her brother (struggling), four young archers of her khas (personal guard, assigned by Drogo) and her handmaid Irri. Daenerys realizes she doesn't want to deal with her brother's shit right now - she's actually feeling good for once - and says to Jorah to tell the others she commands them to stay, while she spurs off into the grasslands.
We get a bit of a flashback here, where Dany thinks back over the process of adjustment to this new life. It was unpleasant for her - Dany was never a rider before, and she was plunged straight from that into riding every day, for most of the day, as Drogo's khalasar moved across the land towards Vaes Dothrak, leading her to suffer blisters, chafing and so on, even with one of her handmaids ordered to help her learn the Dothraki way of riding.
On top of that, the sum total of her interactions with Drogo seem to be watching him from a distance as he ignores her during the day or eats his meals with his warriors, or when he comes to her in the middle of the night, to have sex with her without her consent (or any word to her), then go to sleep. Let's not kid ourselves; this is rape, even apart from the whole point of Dany being underage - though the kind of marital rape that's tragically still common, and even sometimes culturally expected depending on your segment of the populace.
Martin also mentions that Dany starts to take 'pleasure' in Drogo's nightly visitations as a part of this process of adjustment as well. Which is a bit of a complicated issue; Dany suffering less is obviously good, but authorially choosing to use acceptance of her rape as a sign of her adjustment and a toughening-up that lets her come more into her own, is... Unpleasant at best.
It strikes me as a re-occurrence of the same theme we saw with Catelyn's attack by the catspaw assassin and the appearance of Summer; a woman suffering violence and being toughened-up and made more assertive. But in this case, as the violence is more unpleasantly sexual, it strikes me as having some deeply unpleasant shades of rape apologia. I suspect this is meant as something in-universe, where this kind of marital rape is practically expected so Dany is learning to deal with it, but it's still nasty.
It strikes me as a re-occurrence of the same theme we saw with Catelyn's attack by the catspaw assassin and the appearance of Summer; a woman suffering violence and being toughened-up and made more assertive. But in this case, as the violence is more unpleasantly sexual, it strikes me as having some deeply unpleasant shades of rape apologia. I suspect this is meant as something in-universe, where this kind of marital rape is practically expected so Dany is learning to deal with it, but it's still nasty.
Suddenly, Viserys appears, jumping off his horse to grab and shake Dany, screaming at her about daring to give him commands. There's a point of comparison drawn here in the next, between Dany in her practical riding leathers, and Viserys in his silks and ringmail. Viserys goes on about how she's woken the dragon, he's the king of the Seven Kingdoms, he won't hear orders from a 'horselord's slut'; he goes to pinch Dany like he did before, and she shoves him away, hard. He's utterly stunned for a moment, then becomes incandescent with rage - only for a horsewhip to wrap around his throat and pull him away, as one of Dany's khas, Jhogo, grabs him and asks Dany a question (through Jhiqui, her handmaiden, translating) of whether she would like him dead.
Dany says no, and the other riders joke about taking one of Viserys' ears for his rudeness. Viserys is on his knees at this point, trying to pull the whip from around his neck as it's choking him. Dany orders for him not to be harmed, and Jhogo pulls the whip away, spinning Viserys around. While he's recovering, Jorah says that he warned Viserys, but he ignored him. Dany accepts this, and looks down at Viserys, suddenly finding him utterly pathetic, and wondering how she could have feared him. She orders Jorah to take Viserys' horse, so that he has to walk back to the khalasar - a sign of deadly dishonor amongst the Dothraki. Viserys understands this at least, and is incensed, ordering Jorah to kill the Dothraki around, and to hit and hurt Dany. He looks between the two of them, and takes Dany's side, taking Viserys' horse.
As they ride away, Dany wonders whether he'll be able to find his way back; Jorah points out that it's not exactly hard to follow their trail, and even if he didn't the khalasar could easily find him. Dany thinks about how the plains are a part of the Dothraki (interesting bit of thinking there; again reminds me a lot of the way that Robert E. Howard often created these direct connections between characters and the land they come from), and her now - but also begins to worry again, about how angry Viserys will be when he gets back. She talks to Jorah about 'waking the dragon', and Jorah calls Viserys 'less than the shadow of a snake'. Partly that's just disliking Viserys, but there's also a strong level of self-hatred here for the position he's in as well; he wonders what that makes such a man's servants. Dany protests that Viserys is the true king, and Jorah asks her to think about whether he would be a good one.
Dany talks about what Illyrio has been saying to Viserys; that the common people are sewing dragon banners and praying for the Targaryens to return. Jorah says that the common people pray for rain and healthy children and a summer that never ends, and to be left in peace. Dany thinks on that for a while, then asks Jorah what he prays for. He answers "Home" - and Dany thinks of going home too; but the homes she thinks of are the Red Keep and Dragonstone as she's heard about them from Viserys, merged with the house with the red door in Braavos she remembers from her own childhood. Finally, she gives voice to the idea that Viserys will never be able to take them home - he can't lead armies, he has no money, and the only knight who follows him reviles him.
When they get back to the khalasar, Dany gives her horse over to the slaves (this is just mentioned casually; there doesn't seem to be any real thought on the matter of slavery from Dany at this point - which makes sense; even if she's Westerosi in terms of heritage, she's grown up in slave-holding cities in Essos) and goes into her tent. Sunlight glints on her dragon eggs, and for a moment she sees a vision of "a thousand droplets of scarlet flame", which vanish a moment later. She moves to touch the eggs, and feels they're warm, almost hot - but puts it down to the sun warming them.
Dany orders her handmaids to draw her a bath and, once it's steaming, climbs in while they wash her body. She strikes up a conversation about dragons, and hears several stories about them - asking whether some might remain in the far east, but is told no. There's a very in-universe orientialist element here, too:
The Dothraki attitude towards dragons seems to be that they're terrible, evil beasts to be killed by brave warriors (which makes sense historically, if you look at the fact that the era of Dothraki ascendancy started with the Doom).
In any case, when Dany gets out of the bath, she asks Doreah (a Lysene slave Viserys gave her for her wedding) to stay and eat with her and, it's heavily implied that she asks her for advice on sex.
That night, when Drogo arrives at her tent, Dany is awake and greets him, rather than letting him come to her. She says they should go outside, and leads him outside before drawing him down to the grass, and asking him not to turn her so she can see his face this time. She does 'the things that Doreah had told her to do', and ignores the eyes on her as they have sex. This time, she 'rides' him, and he calls out her name at their climax.
A timeskip forwards happens, to the point when Jhiqui realises that Dany is pregnant, on Dany's fourteenth birthday.
Which. Thanks, Martin - thanks for reminding us again this is a literal child, as she's told she's pregnant. That was necessary - and, it's quite possible that that sense of visceral horror was the intention, in which case, effectively done. Still wish I didn't have to read it.
A timeskip forwards happens, to the point when Jhiqui realises that Dany is pregnant, on Dany's fourteenth birthday.
Which. Thanks, Martin - thanks for reminding us again this is a literal child, as she's told she's pregnant. That was necessary - and, it's quite possible that that sense of visceral horror was the intention, in which case, effectively done. Still wish I didn't have to read it.
So, yeah. That's the chapter. Glad I got through it. Dany's getting some character development here which I mostly like - I just wish Martin had chosen to portray it in other ways than having her willingly engage with her rape, or portraying female empowerment through being alright with people looking at her naked and having sex.
It's also another example of Martin doing this thing where he associates the Dothraki with behaviour which is used as a shorthand for barbarism or being 'animal-like' in a way that's been deployed a lot in colonial projects; he talks about Drogo 'riding' Dany as he would a horse, basically says they don't have modesty taboos and so on. Which is another thing I wish he'd do less - the Dothraki really do come across as less interesting, less flesh-out Mongols. Somehow they feel even less nuanced than the Mardu over in MtG Tarkir - and they're a Mongol-samurai mashup!
Anyway, next chapter is Bran IV, in which Bran starts to deal with the new realities of his situation.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
God that was pretty fucking terrible.
Though as a commentary on the chapter I will note that the pacing of this chapter in Game of Thrones is pretty blistering - which is a feature that I'm not sure about.
I think the bits I like about it is that her people do actually seem somewhat loyal to Dany, which is actually an interesting statement on Dothraki culture. I think that particular bit is something that could be focused on in later updates of the review of her chapters - since its not fully developed yet and it is an important element of her rise in Essos.
Like, specifically why they might be loyal to her. What is in their thought process.
Though as a commentary on the chapter I will note that the pacing of this chapter in Game of Thrones is pretty blistering - which is a feature that I'm not sure about.
I think the bits I like about it is that her people do actually seem somewhat loyal to Dany, which is actually an interesting statement on Dothraki culture. I think that particular bit is something that could be focused on in later updates of the review of her chapters - since its not fully developed yet and it is an important element of her rise in Essos.
Like, specifically why they might be loyal to her. What is in their thought process.
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Been a bit busy interesting analysis, I agree Dany's story is quite gross but will say this I think the Dothraki are not well done I'd argue Dany's whole story with them is arguably foreshadowing later on George refines his ideas.
Though, while this will sound very gross it's imporant to remember Dany is now at the same age as Lyanna when she met Rhaegar given if she died at 15 then she likely went to Harrenhall at 14, couple months later then she was kidnapped.
Though, while this will sound very gross it's imporant to remember Dany is now at the same age as Lyanna when she met Rhaegar given if she died at 15 then she likely went to Harrenhall at 14, couple months later then she was kidnapped.
I still haven't gotten around to reading the book or watching the show, but this is the moment that cemented my dislike for Viserys. He's spoiled, entitled, and an all-around awful person to be in the proximity of. I do feel a little sorry for him, both for being ran out of Westeros and the golden crown to come, but he's still a dick.
Bran IV (News From the Wall)
QafianSage
Ascending Ape
- Location
- United Kingdom
Content Warnings: Period understanding of neurodivergence
We begin with Bran watching his little brother Rickon running around in the yard below, along with Grey Wind, Shaggydog and Summer - and Bran can't be there. He's on the verge of tears, but wipes them away - after all, he's eight years old; nearly grown-up! Too old to cry!
I honestly can't tell if that's just little kid stuff or Westeros genuinely inculcating the idea that he's 'almost a man grown' at eight, despite the age of majority being 15.
In any case, Bran feels like shit; he can't go outside, he can't walk, and he mutters to himself that the it was just a lie - he can't fly. Old Nan, his wetnurse who's sitting nearby doing her needlework, says that crows are all liars, and she knows a story about a crow. Which is odd, because Bran never actually says it was a crow in his dream.
In any case, Bran says he doesn't want to hear anymore - he hates Old Nan's 'stupid stories'. He used to like them, but now he's stuck with just her for company, all day, and he's just resentful. Old Nan says the stories aren't hers; they just are, before and after both of them. Bran thinks she's a very ugly woman - old enough no-one can remember her age, almost blind, and was the wet nurse for the older brother of either Bran's grandfather or great-grandfather1. She's had sons and daughters, all of whom are either dead or married away, and her only family remaining at the castle is Hodor; a 'simpleminded' giant of a man who works in the sables, but Old Nan just carries on. Speaking of which, Bran says he doesn't care whose stories they are, he hates them - he wants his mother and father, to go outside again, to climb. Old Nan, imperturbable, says she knows a story about a boy who hated stories.
Bran feels like things can never be again how they were, and there's a note of suicidal ideation here. He thinks that the crow tricked him into flying, and when he woke up the world had changed: He couldn't walk, his parents, sisters and Jon had all gone, along with a good portion of the people he knew around the castle. Even Robb and Rickon have changed - Robb's become a young lord, rather than a big brother, and Rickon spends his time with the wolves, or (if Robb's been gone more than a day or so, visiting other lords) asking tearfully if Robb will ever come back.
Old Nan asks whether Bran would like to hear his favourite story; the story of Brandon the Builder, the one credited with building Winterfell, and possibly the Wall. Bran thinks that's not his favourite, but that Old Nan sometimes confuses him with his uncle, Ned's brother Brandon, or maybe another Brandon altogether. Bran says that's not his favourite, that he always liked the scary stories - and Old Nan starts telling a story about the Long Night, when the Others last came - a winter so long that people were born, grew and died in darkness without ever seeing the sun. She tells of the Others - "cold things, dead things, that hated iron and fire and the touch of the sun, and every creature with hot blood in its veins" - commanding armies of the dead and destroying human kingdoms, until finally the 'Last Hero' rose up amongst the First Men and journeyed to find the Children of the Forest to ask for help.
However, she's interrupted before she can finish her story by the arrival of Maester Luwin and Hodor (a young man about seven feet tall, whose actual name is Walder, but the only thing he says is Hodor, so...), to say that Tyrion Lannister and some Night's Watchmen have arrived, and that Bran's to come down to meet them. Hodor picks Bran up and carries him down to the hall, leaving Old Nan behind with her needlework.
Down in the hall, Robb sits in the high seat, wearing armor and with Theon Greyjoy and the head of the guard next to him. Tyrion stands in the center of the hall, along with the Watchmen, and there's a strong sense of animosity in the spacee towards him. Robb says that the Watchmen are welcome to stay - and Tyrion says that he takes from that that he's not so welcome. Robb bristles at Tyrion calling him a 'boy', whereupon Tyrion comments that Jon must have gotten all the courtesy in the family - then, when Bran says Jon's name, Tyrion turns to him, commenting that Starks are hard to kill. Rabb commands Hodor to bring Bran to him, and sets him on the high seat, before saying to Tyrion he said he had business with Bran; tell it.
Tyrion asks Bran how it was that he happened to fall that day, and Bran says he never fell. Maester Luwin comments that Bran doesn't remember the fall, or the climb before it. Tyrion says that's very curious, before offering a gift. He asks Bran if he likes to ride, and Luwin says that Bran has lost the use of his legs. Tyrion says that with the right saddle, even a cripple may ride - which Bran angrily retorts to, saying he's not a cripple. "Then I am not a dwarf; my father will rejoice to hear it," Tyrion replies, before offering a saddle design which, with a horse trained to respond to Bran's voice and the reigns, should allow him to ride. Maester Luwin beats himself up a little for not thinking of the idea, and Tyrion comments that it's similar to the saddles he himself uses. Bran asks if he'll truly be able to ride, and Tyrion says that atop a horse he'll be as tall as anyone. Robb questions why he's doing this - why he should want to help Bran.
A moment later, the door to the yard flies open, and Rickon comes in, along with the direwolves, which start growling and stalking towards Tyrion. Theon comments they don't like Tyrion's smell, and Tyrion starts to make his excuses - when Shaggydog comes up behind him and snaps at him. Summer lunges at him from the other side, and Grey Wind tears at his sleeve. Bran calls for Summer to leave him alone, and Robb and Rickon soon follow, leaving Tyrion unharmed save for a torn sleeve. Robb is a bit shaken, not sure why the wolves did that, and Tyrion says he'll be going. Luwin pulls Robb aside for a moment, and Robb offers Tyrion hospitality a little grudgingly. Tyrion politely says no - he'll find a bed in the town outside the castle, for both their sakes.
With Tyrion gone, Robb offers hospitality to the Night's Watchmen again, and Hodor carries Bran back up to his room. Old Nan is asleep, and Hodor gathers her up to take her back to her own rooms. Left alone with Summer, Bran hugs him and says he can ride now - one day he'll be able to go hunting with Summer in the woods.
Bran falls asleep as well, and dreams he's climbing - up a tower, then through the clouds and the night sky. He looks down, seeing the world spread immeasurably far below, and knows he can't fly. Far above, against the moon, he sees gargoyles, which watch him with red eyes, and tear themselves loose from the stone to pad down towards him. He promises he didn't hear - then wakes up, and sees a shadow looming over him. He promises again - but the shadow is just Hodor, who lights a candle, helps wash and dress him, then carries him down to the hall for dinner. Yoren is sat with him and Robb, and says Jon Snow is "Ser Alliser's bane", a joke which only the Watchmen get - but when Robb asks about Benjen, they deliver the bad news that he's been a long time away, and likely dead.
Robb protests loudly that his uncle isn't dead - and Yoren is unimpressed: "Whatever you say, m'lord." The youngest of the Watchmen says that no-one knows the Haunted Forest better than Benjen - and Bran can't help but think of Old Nan's stories. He blurts out that the children of the forest will help Benjen, and Theon sniggers at him, while Maester Luwin says the children are long-gone. Yoren, though, says that up past the Wall, who can say? You can't always tell what's alive or dead up there.
Later, Robb carries Bran up to bed and tucks him in, telling him that they'll find a horse for Bran. Bran asks if their family is ever coming back, and Robb promises they are - and maybe when Catelyn comes back, they can ride out together to greet her. Then, they'll ride north to the Wall together to see Jon - it'll be an adventure.
Overall, I'm not sure I have that much to say about this chapter, other than to point out the notable difference in the way Martin seems to treat physical disability (with empathy, and a focus on the ways people can get around it to live their lives, such as Bran's saddle or Tyrion's use of a similar one), and mental disability (wherein Hodor doesn't really have much internality that we get to see, and just kind of gets treated as a kind of human furniture). We do get a little more of a look inside Hodor's head much, much later when Bran literally wargs into him - but that's explicitly something Hodor doesn't like, which Bran ignores, so it's not really a good instance.
Anyway, next chapter is Eddard V, in which Ned starts to connect with his inner Sherlock. Or at least his inner Watson.
1: As a side note, having done the math based on the Stark family tree, this suggests Old Nan is at the very least 91 years old, and that's assuming she was a wet nurse in her teens, which is exceptionally unlikely - she's possibly as much as 140 or so. Which is also very unlikely, but a likely range is somewhere in the 96-115 range, which is still pretty damn impressive.
We begin with Bran watching his little brother Rickon running around in the yard below, along with Grey Wind, Shaggydog and Summer - and Bran can't be there. He's on the verge of tears, but wipes them away - after all, he's eight years old; nearly grown-up! Too old to cry!
I honestly can't tell if that's just little kid stuff or Westeros genuinely inculcating the idea that he's 'almost a man grown' at eight, despite the age of majority being 15.
In any case, Bran feels like shit; he can't go outside, he can't walk, and he mutters to himself that the it was just a lie - he can't fly. Old Nan, his wetnurse who's sitting nearby doing her needlework, says that crows are all liars, and she knows a story about a crow. Which is odd, because Bran never actually says it was a crow in his dream.
In any case, Bran says he doesn't want to hear anymore - he hates Old Nan's 'stupid stories'. He used to like them, but now he's stuck with just her for company, all day, and he's just resentful. Old Nan says the stories aren't hers; they just are, before and after both of them. Bran thinks she's a very ugly woman - old enough no-one can remember her age, almost blind, and was the wet nurse for the older brother of either Bran's grandfather or great-grandfather1. She's had sons and daughters, all of whom are either dead or married away, and her only family remaining at the castle is Hodor; a 'simpleminded' giant of a man who works in the sables, but Old Nan just carries on. Speaking of which, Bran says he doesn't care whose stories they are, he hates them - he wants his mother and father, to go outside again, to climb. Old Nan, imperturbable, says she knows a story about a boy who hated stories.
Bran feels like things can never be again how they were, and there's a note of suicidal ideation here. He thinks that the crow tricked him into flying, and when he woke up the world had changed: He couldn't walk, his parents, sisters and Jon had all gone, along with a good portion of the people he knew around the castle. Even Robb and Rickon have changed - Robb's become a young lord, rather than a big brother, and Rickon spends his time with the wolves, or (if Robb's been gone more than a day or so, visiting other lords) asking tearfully if Robb will ever come back.
Old Nan asks whether Bran would like to hear his favourite story; the story of Brandon the Builder, the one credited with building Winterfell, and possibly the Wall. Bran thinks that's not his favourite, but that Old Nan sometimes confuses him with his uncle, Ned's brother Brandon, or maybe another Brandon altogether. Bran says that's not his favourite, that he always liked the scary stories - and Old Nan starts telling a story about the Long Night, when the Others last came - a winter so long that people were born, grew and died in darkness without ever seeing the sun. She tells of the Others - "cold things, dead things, that hated iron and fire and the touch of the sun, and every creature with hot blood in its veins" - commanding armies of the dead and destroying human kingdoms, until finally the 'Last Hero' rose up amongst the First Men and journeyed to find the Children of the Forest to ask for help.
However, she's interrupted before she can finish her story by the arrival of Maester Luwin and Hodor (a young man about seven feet tall, whose actual name is Walder, but the only thing he says is Hodor, so...), to say that Tyrion Lannister and some Night's Watchmen have arrived, and that Bran's to come down to meet them. Hodor picks Bran up and carries him down to the hall, leaving Old Nan behind with her needlework.
Down in the hall, Robb sits in the high seat, wearing armor and with Theon Greyjoy and the head of the guard next to him. Tyrion stands in the center of the hall, along with the Watchmen, and there's a strong sense of animosity in the spacee towards him. Robb says that the Watchmen are welcome to stay - and Tyrion says that he takes from that that he's not so welcome. Robb bristles at Tyrion calling him a 'boy', whereupon Tyrion comments that Jon must have gotten all the courtesy in the family - then, when Bran says Jon's name, Tyrion turns to him, commenting that Starks are hard to kill. Rabb commands Hodor to bring Bran to him, and sets him on the high seat, before saying to Tyrion he said he had business with Bran; tell it.
Tyrion asks Bran how it was that he happened to fall that day, and Bran says he never fell. Maester Luwin comments that Bran doesn't remember the fall, or the climb before it. Tyrion says that's very curious, before offering a gift. He asks Bran if he likes to ride, and Luwin says that Bran has lost the use of his legs. Tyrion says that with the right saddle, even a cripple may ride - which Bran angrily retorts to, saying he's not a cripple. "Then I am not a dwarf; my father will rejoice to hear it," Tyrion replies, before offering a saddle design which, with a horse trained to respond to Bran's voice and the reigns, should allow him to ride. Maester Luwin beats himself up a little for not thinking of the idea, and Tyrion comments that it's similar to the saddles he himself uses. Bran asks if he'll truly be able to ride, and Tyrion says that atop a horse he'll be as tall as anyone. Robb questions why he's doing this - why he should want to help Bran.
A moment later, the door to the yard flies open, and Rickon comes in, along with the direwolves, which start growling and stalking towards Tyrion. Theon comments they don't like Tyrion's smell, and Tyrion starts to make his excuses - when Shaggydog comes up behind him and snaps at him. Summer lunges at him from the other side, and Grey Wind tears at his sleeve. Bran calls for Summer to leave him alone, and Robb and Rickon soon follow, leaving Tyrion unharmed save for a torn sleeve. Robb is a bit shaken, not sure why the wolves did that, and Tyrion says he'll be going. Luwin pulls Robb aside for a moment, and Robb offers Tyrion hospitality a little grudgingly. Tyrion politely says no - he'll find a bed in the town outside the castle, for both their sakes.
With Tyrion gone, Robb offers hospitality to the Night's Watchmen again, and Hodor carries Bran back up to his room. Old Nan is asleep, and Hodor gathers her up to take her back to her own rooms. Left alone with Summer, Bran hugs him and says he can ride now - one day he'll be able to go hunting with Summer in the woods.
Bran falls asleep as well, and dreams he's climbing - up a tower, then through the clouds and the night sky. He looks down, seeing the world spread immeasurably far below, and knows he can't fly. Far above, against the moon, he sees gargoyles, which watch him with red eyes, and tear themselves loose from the stone to pad down towards him. He promises he didn't hear - then wakes up, and sees a shadow looming over him. He promises again - but the shadow is just Hodor, who lights a candle, helps wash and dress him, then carries him down to the hall for dinner. Yoren is sat with him and Robb, and says Jon Snow is "Ser Alliser's bane", a joke which only the Watchmen get - but when Robb asks about Benjen, they deliver the bad news that he's been a long time away, and likely dead.
Robb protests loudly that his uncle isn't dead - and Yoren is unimpressed: "Whatever you say, m'lord." The youngest of the Watchmen says that no-one knows the Haunted Forest better than Benjen - and Bran can't help but think of Old Nan's stories. He blurts out that the children of the forest will help Benjen, and Theon sniggers at him, while Maester Luwin says the children are long-gone. Yoren, though, says that up past the Wall, who can say? You can't always tell what's alive or dead up there.
Later, Robb carries Bran up to bed and tucks him in, telling him that they'll find a horse for Bran. Bran asks if their family is ever coming back, and Robb promises they are - and maybe when Catelyn comes back, they can ride out together to greet her. Then, they'll ride north to the Wall together to see Jon - it'll be an adventure.
Which is a sweet little note to end the chapter on.
Overall, I'm not sure I have that much to say about this chapter, other than to point out the notable difference in the way Martin seems to treat physical disability (with empathy, and a focus on the ways people can get around it to live their lives, such as Bran's saddle or Tyrion's use of a similar one), and mental disability (wherein Hodor doesn't really have much internality that we get to see, and just kind of gets treated as a kind of human furniture). We do get a little more of a look inside Hodor's head much, much later when Bran literally wargs into him - but that's explicitly something Hodor doesn't like, which Bran ignores, so it's not really a good instance.
Anyway, next chapter is Eddard V, in which Ned starts to connect with his inner Sherlock. Or at least his inner Watson.
1: As a side note, having done the math based on the Stark family tree, this suggests Old Nan is at the very least 91 years old, and that's assuming she was a wet nurse in her teens, which is exceptionally unlikely - she's possibly as much as 140 or so. Which is also very unlikely, but a likely range is somewhere in the 96-115 range, which is still pretty damn impressive.