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No Gods, No Masters (WH30k)

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HellHound01 said:
Our army could beat the Imperial Army.

There is no chance at all that we could be an Astartes Legion. Even with Power Armor, and Power Weapons. Hell, our long range weapons are lasguns. That isn't going to bother Space Marines one bit. Meanwhile there bolters will chew through our power armor.
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The space marines have this problem of relying on the army to provide numerical parity, you'know. Besides, their armor is only resistant to our rail flechettes, not immune.
 
Baron Ouroboros said:
The space marines have this problem of relying on the army to provide numerical parity, you'know. Besides, their armor is only resistant to our rail flechettes, not immune.
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You are thinking of 40k, where the astartes rarely have more than 1,000 marines at any one warzone.

This is 30k. There could be anywhere from 10,000 to 100,000 astartes in this Crusade Fleet, and they will kick our butt. Thats not including the few million Imperial Army soldiers, tank Regiments, or even Titan Legions they may have.

We need to work out a deal to become a vassal state, or at least delay integration for as long as possible.
 
HellHound01 said:
Our army could beat the Imperial Army.

There is no chance at all that we could be an Astartes Legion. Even with Power Armor, and Power Weapons. Hell, our long range weapons are lasguns. That isn't going to bother Space Marines one bit. Meanwhile there bolters will chew through our power armor.
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Our main infantry weapons are actually rail flechettes that are statistically the Equivalent of a Space Marine Bolter. Our Power Armor is a 3+ Save, same as theirs. We also happen to have a Ward Save, which not every space marine legion does

Our Armored Formations beat theirs simply by being Baneblade Equivalents. The Space Marines are using Rhinos and Malcadors at this time.

Even Our Militia is Superior to the Imperial Army, using Lasguns and 3+ Save Power Armor, compared to their Autoguns and Flak

I think you underestimate just how seriously teched up we are in comparison to the Imperium. Like I'm actually amazed we have what we do.
 
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HellHound01 said:
This is 30k. There could be anywhere from 10,000 to 100,000 astartes in this Crusade Fleet, and they will kick our butt.
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Meanwhile, we have millions of psykers. Our frigging militia makes anyone in the imperial army who isn't an astartes look horribly under-equipped by comparison.

Those astartes haven't got the slightest clue what they're getting into. We might suffer disproportionate casualties, yes, but unless there's a great deal more than 100,000 of them, they're absolutely, positively doomed.

The fact that they might realize that, and resort to indiscriminate orbital bombardment before we can amass sufficient force in space to deal with their fleet is my main worry, actually.
 
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KnightofTempest said:
Our main infantry weapons are actually rail flechettes that are statistically the Equivalent of a Space Marine Bolter. Our Power Armor is a 3+ Save, same as theirs. We also happen to have a Ward Save, which not every space marine legion does

Our Armored Formations beat theirs simply by being Baneblade Equivalents. The Space Marines are using Rhinos and Malcadors at this time.

Even Our Militia is Superior to the Imperial Army, using Lasguns and 3+ Save Power Armor, compared to their Autoguns and Flak

I think you underestimate just how seriously teched up we are in comparison to the Imperium. Like I'm actually amazed we have what we do.
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I think you are underestimating the Imperium. There is not a single human nation that manages to win a war against the Imperium. Not. One.

Battles, yes, but never wars. The Imperium will always escalate. If we beat this force, they will send three more, if we beat them, they with send six more and burn our worlds from orbit. We cannot win.

There were human civilizations encountered by the Imperium far more advanced than us. They lost.

There were human civilizations with powerful psykers and warp sorcery. They lost.

There were human civilizations with powerful Xeno allies. They lost.

There were human civilizations with all of that combined. They all lost.

Trying to fight here is a lost cause. Instead we should delay, build up, and try and keep as much independence as possible.
 
Driven by Apathy said:
Meanwhile, we have millions of psykers. Our frigging militia makes anyone in the imperial army who isn't an astartes look horribly under-equipped by comparison.

Those astartes haven't got the slightest clue what they're getting into. We might suffer disproportionate casualties, yes, but unless there's a great deal more than 100,000 of them, they're absolutely, positively doomed.

The fact that they might realize that, and resort to indiscriminate orbital bombardment before we can amass sufficient force in space to deal with their fleet is my main worry, actually.
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Sisters of Silence and Astartes Librarians make our psykers moot.

But thats beside the point. We really can't win this war. A few battles, maybe. The war? No way man.
 
HellHound01 said:
I think you are underestimating the Imperium. There is not a single human nation that manages to win a war against the Imperium. Not. One.

Battles, yes, but never wars. The Imperium will always escalate. If we beat this force, they will send three more, if we beat them, they with send six more and burn our worlds from orbit. We cannot win.

There were human civilizations encountered by the Imperium far more advanced than us. They lost.

There were human civilizations with powerful psykers and warp sorcery. They lost.

There were human civilizations with powerful Xeno allies. They lost.

There were human civilizations with all of that combined. They all lost.

Trying to fight here is a lost cause. Instead we should delay, build up, and try and keep as much independence as possible.
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This is a quest, if it weren't possible to win, it wouldn't be viable. You can take canon and throw it out the window
 
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Turn 20 War Turns March
  • Threadmarks
    • The referendum returns a "no" answer by a massive margin. Less than .1% of your population voted to submit.

    Bahu Ser was displeased to hear it, and formally declared war when he received the news. Your warships gathered together to intercept him on his way to Goldman.

    His fleet, with its superior numbers and tonnage defeated yours. That said, you gave him some damage. Six of his capital ships have been destroyed, and your diviners say that he was on one of them. Unfortunately, he survived and was rescued from the void of space before his oxygen supply ran out.

    Many of your ships hit the emergency warp button to escape certain destruction, but it is unknown how many of them actually survived.

    The report from the Diviners is grim. The 24 remaining capital ships are all Dreadnoughts compared to your frigates from their performance. The fleet contains approximately 20 Million normal soldiers under arms, and approximately 85 Thousand Augmented Post Human soldiers.

    You only have about two million soldiers on Goldman, and 50 Million militia that may or may not hold up in a straight fight with the enemy military, and definitely won't hold up against the post humans.


    You have time for 1 set of Grand Rituals before they land on Goldman. A grand ritual is a massive undertaking involving most of your psykers across a planet. You have five grand rituals available.


    Choose Five:
    [] Attempt to blow up one of their capships. May be taken multiple times.
    [] Send Men and Material from Bakunin to Goldman.
    [] Send Men and Material from Stirner to Goldman.
    [] Send Men and Material from Kropotkin to Goldman.
    [] Send Men and Material from Bookchin to Goldman.
    [] Send Goldman the Bolo that normally guards Bookchin.
    [] Send Goldman the Bolo that normally guards Bakunin.
    [] Send Goldman the Bolo that normally guards Kropotkin.
    [] Send Goldman the Egoist, the Titan that normally guards Stirner.
    [] Send a Beta to Goldman. May be taken up to 4 times (chance of refusal each time)
    [] Dominate their minds
    [] Summon Greater Demons

    1 Hour Moratorium
     
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  • Threadmarks
    • HellHound01 said:
    I think you are underestimating the Imperium. There is not a single human nation that manages to win a war against the Imperium. Not. One.

    Battles, yes, but never wars. The Imperium will always escalate. If we beat this force, they will send three more, if we beat them, they with send six more and burn our worlds from orbit. We cannot win.

    There were human civilizations encountered by the Imperium far more advanced than us. They lost.

    There were human civilizations with powerful psykers and warp sorcery. They lost.

    There were human civilizations with powerful Xeno allies. They lost.

    There were human civilizations with all of that combined. They all lost.

    Trying to fight here is a lost cause. Instead we should delay, build up, and try and keep as much independence as possible.
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    We know that there are 3 primarchs that we can get to switch sides, and one of them is the one fighting us.
     
    Submitting to the Imperium is a bad end, btw. Tone at the top means that an anarchy cannot long survive under a monarch that's more than a mascot.
     
    Ok, lets see:

    [] Attempt to blow up one of their capships. May be taken multiple times.
    Seems like a bad option. They have 24, and we have 5 options, so it would be a waste.

    [] Send Men and Material from Bakunin to Goldman.
    [] Send Men and Material from Stirner to Goldman.
    [] Send Men and Material from Kropotkin to Goldman.
    [] Send Men and Material from Bookchin to Goldman.

    We need at least one of these; we need men to fight the Space Marines.

    [] Send Goldman the Bolo that normally guards Bookchin.
    [] Send Goldman the Bolo that normally guards Bakunin.
    [] Send Goldman the Bolo that normally guards Kropotkin.

    I'm uncertain on these: it says that they go from Banebalde level, to "destroy a Titan Legion level". @Aranfan Compared to a Titan, how strong is a Bolo?

    [] Send Goldman the Egoist, the Titan that normally guards Stirner.
    Would be useful if Titans are better than Bolos, otherwise a Bolo.

    [] Send a Beta to Goldman. May be taken up to 4 times (chance of refusal each time)
    Dunno really. Would be good, but the chance makes it uncertain. And I don't know how good it'd be compared to the other options.
     
    HellHound01 said:
    I think you are underestimating the Imperium. There is not a single human nation that manages to win a war against the Imperium. Not. One.
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    I'm not making an estimate of the Imperium here. I'm making an estimate of this particular fleet currently invading us, and I'm inclined to think that we can probably beat them.

    As for the Imperium as a whole... well...
    HellHound01 said:
    Battles, yes, but never wars. The Imperium will always escalate. If we beat this force, they will send three more, if we beat them, they with send six more and burn our worlds from orbit. We cannot win.
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    With the exception of the last sentence, I'm inclined to agree here. The Imperium has strategic depth and reserves we cannot hope to match - if they really take note and come at us in force we can't hope to defeat them in even a purely defensive war. Not unless we come up with something that totally breaks the established paradigms of WH40K (or 30K, as the case may be) and elevates us to Culture-lite levels of clarke-tech. And I've seen no sign of that being a realistic hope so far.

    That being said, victory of a sort might still be a possibility.

    Maybe we'll find a way to cause a warp storm around our sector, stopping their invasions dead in their tracks.

    Maybe we'll just prove too hard a nut to crack for an invasion to be worth it, and the Emperor will offer us a deal we'll actually be able to accept.

    Maybe we'll fight them system by system, being slowly overwhelmed, until we're ultimately forced to cryogenically freeze our population and flee on a FTL-capable human craftworld. Which would still preserve our society and constitute a victory of sorts.

    Who knows? Either way, our situation is desperate, but not hopeless.
     
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    Driven by Apathy said:
    I'm not making an estimate of the Imperium here. I'm making an estimate of this particular fleet currently invading us, and I'm inclined to think that we can probably beat them.

    As for the Imperium as a whole... well...

    With the exception of the last sentence, I'm inclined to agree here. The Imperium has strategic depth and reserves we cannot hope to match - if they really take note and come at us in force we can't hope to defeat them in even a war. Not unless we come up with something that totally breaks the established paradigms of WH40K (or 30K, as the case may be) and elevates us to Culture-lite levels of clarke-tech. And I've seen no sign of that being a realistic hope so far.

    That being said, victory of a sort might still be a possibility.

    Maybe we'll find a way to cause a warp storm around our sector, stopping their invasion dead in its tracks.

    Maybe we'll just prove too hard a nut to crack for an invasion to be worth it, and the Emperor will offer us a deal we'll actually be able to accept.

    Maybe we'll find them system by system, being slowly overwhelmed, until we're ultimately forced to cryogenically freeze our population and flee on a FTL-capable human craftworld.

    Who knows? Either way, our situation is desperate, but not hopeless.
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    TBH If the Severan Dominate can hold off the Imperium with just ten worlds and shitty tech while also being assaulted by an Ork WAAAGH! I'm inclined to think we can do the same.
     
    Well we have to remember that we are not the only threat to the imperium.
    While we might not be able to defeat them it's fully possible that they will become to distracted by another threat to send another fleet against us.
     
    Aranfan said:
    The referendum returns a "no" answer by a massive margin. Less than .1% of your population voted to submit.

    Bahu Ser was displeased to hear it, and formally declared war when he received the news. Your warships gathered together to intercept him on his way to Goldman.

    His fleet, with it's superior numbers and tonnage defeated your.
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    As expected. *Sigh*

    Any half-decent admiral could have predicted this outcome and done the reasonable thing, which was to not fight an unwinnable battle. Regrettably, it seems that anarchy does not make for a competent military.
    KnightofTempest said:
    TBH If the Severan Dominate can hold off the Imperium with just ten worlds and shitty tech while also being assaulted by an Ork WAAAGH! I'm inclined to think we can do the same.
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    The Severan Dominate survives by virtue of being an unimportant highly militarized backwater and not worth the effort. We're the under-defended archaeotech motherlode. What works for them won't work for us.
     
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