[x]"Maybe another day." There were so many catches Yvette didn't mention. You'd rather not risk tripping right over yet another one. Not when it's not necessary.
As an aside, with this being recced by SV and all, I ended up thinking about how to try to present this Quest to people unfamiliar with it, no to mention discovering that SV has made it so just skimming threads without clicking into them gives a bunch of information, and so have adjusted the thread's header... thingy... whatever that bit is called... to try to communicate Why One Might Want To Click Into This Thread. I'm tentatively running with the following, but wanted to mention it in-thread so people can bring up elements they find appealing I might be entirely overlooking that might make sense to be mentioning.
Still unused to 'selling' myself and my work, honestly, but nothing to do but practice I suppose...
It's not so much that you need to mention something else as that a list of reasons to read a story is never going to do the job well. It takes too long to say too little too flavorlessly. Like, replace the first two chunks with "Sabrina is happily married to the giant centipede who rules her village." It could still use more time in the oven, but it's better, right? Your voice in the story is good, so use it.
Maybe try writing a brief letter from Sabrina to her mom filling her in on how her life's been going since the wedding? That could be a fun framing.
[X]"Maybe another day." There were so many catches Yvette didn't mention. You'd rather not risk tripping right over yet another one. Not when it's not necessary.
So I'm feeling a little better and had a few hours without feeling like a zombie toady...
Okay so regarding the sheep stuff now that I went to check my source on sheep potentially doing very well in open forest environments which I had read from .E Zuener in A History Of Domesticated Animals....
I feel I have to apologize. Some of the research Zuener did for that section of the Book seemed to be either poorly sourced ( Everything I can find on the Heck Brothers has so far been as sketchy as an art classroom) or his own research without giving a lot of insight into methodology so I may need to hold off on talking about things like diet flexibility compared with cattle, being more adaptable landscape wise than typically assumed, etc.
He also focuses a lot more on trying to figure out what sheep looked like before any domestication efforts than figuring out which environments they lived in...which is fair but frustrating for me now.
At the moment the only solid thing I think I can say after rechecking all this is that I'm sure sheep CAN be grazed in open pine forrests, which is not true of ALL livestock(include painful brain creaking noises if you wish) not sure about other forests and their undergrowth less sure about a lot of things I thought I already knew as I read more from other authors.
Anyone who tells you research is straightforward and simple even on well documented topics is not your friend.
The paywalls are one thing, sorting author's biases and their methods are another.
This one isn't paywalled, but it's also more about how trees respond to grazing pressure than sheep do to different environments *even if it touches on that*
I might have to wait until i'm back in classes again and have access to the schools access to JSTOR and the like to do this properly.
Sorry. I'll still be interested and keep poking at it because my curiosity has been greatly raised the more I look, but I want to provide reliable information when it comes to stuff that intersects with IRL stuff.
The TLDR is that I thought I had the means to ascertain what make sheep viable in the Freelands and I'm realizing that a lot of what I know and have researched before regarding doesn't even apply to the question in this context.
[X]"Maybe another day." There were so many catches Yvette didn't mention. You'd rather not risk tripping right over yet another one. Not when it's not necessary.
[X]"Maybe another day." There were so many catches Yvette didn't mention. You'd rather not risk tripping right over yet another one. Not when it's not necessary.
It's not so much that you need to mention something else as that a list of reasons to read a story is never going to do the job well. It takes too long to say too little too flavorlessly. Like, replace the first two chunks with "Sabrina is happily married to the giant centipede who rules her village." It could still use more time in the oven, but it's better, right? Your voice in the story is good, so use it.
Maybe try writing a brief letter from Sabrina to her mom filling her in on how her life's been going since the wedding? That could be a fun framing.
[X]"Maybe another day." There were so many catches Yvette didn't mention. You'd rather not risk tripping right over yet another one. Not when it's not necessary.
I'm surprised so many people are being so nervous about turning off sleep. This is the most minor of minor changes according to Caras and Yvette, it should be so helpful to action economy. And Caras can probably turn it off if it doesn't work out.
I also really like Torgamous's suggestion, @Ghoul King. I think of introductions as enticements instead of explanations.
Being a blabbermouth like a five year old bursting to tell the coolest parts of the story is better than a dry explanation of quest mechanics. Maybe stuff like:
Sabrina is happily married to the giant centipede who rules her village. (from Torgamous)
Fight or experiment on weird monsters, unless talking to them works (so far we've got two kinds of bug monsters, lightning monsters, parasitic worm monsters, and fish monsters).
Resolve the bandit fort problem created by hiring bandits to deal with a fort.
Figure out taxes, but in a fun way that doesn't require number crunching.
Make friends, even if sometimes there's a little bit of kidnapping involved.
I've changed my mind on the vote
[X]"Yeah, let's do that." It doesn't sound dangerous, and it would help a lot...
I don't think there will be any reasonably feasible way to get useful information on the dangers to make a better informed decision. There's too many variables. As such, I'd like to just try an option and see.
"Yes, lets" is still winning by one vote. I find this interesting: I honestly expected the Soissons visit to either be very ineffectual at making voters wary of pushing forward on further Integration, or to push things all the way in the opposite direction.
I'll probably close the vote tomorrow if things don't prove to be very unstable on voting and all.
It's not so much that you need to mention something else as that a list of reasons to read a story is never going to do the job well. It takes too long to say too little too flavorlessly. Like, replace the first two chunks with "Sabrina is happily married to the giant centipede who rules her village." It could still use more time in the oven, but it's better, right? Your voice in the story is good, so use it.
Maybe try writing a brief letter from Sabrina to her mom filling her in on how her life's been going since the wedding? That could be a fun framing.
The thing is, I genuinely don't understand the thought processes of most people when it comes to assessing what to give a chance and so on. I know what my thought process looks like, but I have an abundance of evidence that my thought process is so abnormal that calling it 'unique' is probably only a modest overstatement. If I was typical, around 98% of advertising would depress sales. So... my primary model is 'imitate things I find so repellant I don't understand why they work on other human beings at all'. Which is like trying to cook a good meal for someone where you want to vomit in response to the smell of what they insist is delicious: difficult.
So I'm just always flailing blindly when it comes to this sort of stuff.
I guess I can use the specific suggestion, though. Doesn't help me understand any, but hey.
I do too, but my experience is roughly, "Standard logic says you inform people that the contents of this crate are massive amounts of cyanide," which somehow gets other people to go, "Oh, apples! I like apples, give me the cyanide crate."
So 'enticements' is a mystery to me in terms of implementation that works on other folks.
I mean, advertisers are generally very bad at their job and a few scientific studies show that most advertising these days is bad enough that it actually depresses sales, but the companies in question are so 'strong' and monopolistic it doesn't really matter.
I do too, but my experience is roughly, "Standard logic says you inform people that the contents of this crate are massive amounts of cyanide," which somehow gets other people to go, "Oh, apples! I like apples, give me the cyanide crate."
I literally eat ground peach pit porrage and bitter almond cookies. Generally, cyanide is tasty and if you don't injest a crippling amount of cyanide you'll recover.
I mean, advertisers are generally very bad at their job and a few scientific studies show that most advertising these days is bad enough that it actually depresses sales, but the companies in question are so 'strong' and monopolistic it doesn't really matter.
That changes the problem from 'I don't understand why this works well enough to then successfully imitate it' to 'imitating it is probably a bad idea outright', but doesn't change the fundamental issue of 'what do I say to get across the appeal to others?'
I literally eat ground peach pit porrage and bitter almond cookies. Generally, cyanide is tasty and if you don't injest a crippling amount of cyanide you'll recover.
The point here is a comparison point: I see someone 'sell' their work (Or someone else's work) in a manner that puts me off it and makes me not want to look at it at all, and then I see other people go 'I was so intrigued by your ad-or-whatever that I came in immediately!' and I'm left baffled as to what kind of thought process would respond in the exact opposite way I responded.
The other layer there being that 'apples contain some cyanide' is not actually one of those Everyone Knows trivia bits (Or maybe Death Note changed that: it's certainly where I first heard of it), where I wouldn't expect very many people to see A Cyanide Crate and assume that this means 'a crate full of apples', I'd expect them to assume it means 'a crate full of cyanide pills for killing people'. And would in turn assume only people wishing to swiftly commit murder or suicide would be interested in the box... and then that's not the demographics I actually see be interested in the metaphorical box.
I mean, advertisers are generally very bad at their job and a few scientific studies show that most advertising these days is bad enough that it actually depresses sales, but the companies in question are so 'strong' and monopolistic it doesn't really matter.
Yeah, the key thing to remember about business advertising is that the people making the ads don't actually need to convince the people who might buy a product to buy it. Their real job is convincing the people selling the product to buy the ad, and they seem to be pretty good at that.
The thing is, I genuinely don't understand the thought processes of most people when it comes to assessing what to give a chance and so on. I know what my thought process looks like, but I have an abundance of evidence that my thought process is so abnormal that calling it 'unique' is probably only a modest overstatement. If I was typical, around 98% of advertising would depress sales. So... my primary model is 'imitate things I find so repellant I don't understand why they work on other human beings at all'. Which is like trying to cook a good meal for someone where you want to vomit in response to the smell of what they insist is delicious: difficult.
So I'm just always flailing blindly when it comes to this sort of stuff.
I guess I can use the specific suggestion, though. Doesn't help me understand any, but hey.
I do too, but my experience is roughly, "Standard logic says you inform people that the contents of this crate are massive amounts of cyanide," which somehow gets other people to go, "Oh, apples! I like apples, give me the cyanide crate."
So 'enticements' is a mystery to me in terms of implementation that works on other folks.
The first thing that popped into my head was "visit your vassals, sire," because whatever you're imitating isn't other quest summaries on SV. But that doesn't help with understanding, just more effective imitation, so let's look at what you have written.
Have you ever wanted to see a romance story involving a monster? An actual monster, not a 'monster girl' or a catboy who's just a cute human with minor aesthetic differentiation. Then you might like this one!
Or maybe you don't like how 'romance' stories so often are about courtship and stop the second people actually have a committed relationship. That'd be a reason to read this!
Or perhaps you don't like how romance stories rarely explore the practical realities of a relationship. Sure, somebody is cute, or wealthy, or otherwise 'desirable', but what will you do once you're married to them? This Quest is interested in that topic.
Or maybe you've always thought the Zerg or Tyranids or the Bugs from Starship Troopers seem like interestingly alien societies, and always have wanted to see that explored more than the source materials ever do. That'd also be a reason to check out this Quest!
First, you need more information content. As it is, the only detail I can get from this summary that I couldn't get from the quest's title is that the specific kind of monster we're married to is "Tyranid." You haven't significantly narrowed down what I think this story might be compared to before I read the summary.
Second, information density! You're using a lot of words to say very little. The refrain of "if you like that, you might like this quest" is especially useless, because if I'm reading a quest's summary, the default assumption is that the things I'm reading are representative of the quest and that I'll like the quest if I like them.
This brings us to vibes. The default assumption is that a written summary of a written work is representative of the work. This summary is a resumé, which does not represent the quest itself very well, and a quest it does represent well (which is the default assumption) isn't one I would want to read. I know you're capable of atmospheric writing that filters an interesting world through the perspective of the character experiencing it. Do that instead.
Using the details you've listed as an outline (1. actual monster, 2. committed relationship, 3. practicality of relationship, 4. Zerg), I get "Sabrina is happily married to the giant centipede who rules her village [points 1 and 2]. Sure, adjusting to each other's cultures will take time [point 3], there's a learning curve to managing her husband's swarm [point 4], and the holy order of knights from the next kingdom over keeps causing trouble [points 1, 3, and 4], but every relationship has its challenges [points 2 and 3]." It's not great, but it's adequate, and if you want to take that and call it a day, go ahead. But do you see what I did and why I did it?
I do think it'd be better if you wrote something yourself. I was serious about making the summary a short letter from Sabrina to her mom, but I think anything you write should be good as long as you're not in your own head about having to write an ad. Because I've liked everything you've written in this quest that wasn't you trying to write an ad.
That changes the problem from 'I don't understand why this works well enough to then successfully imitate it' to 'imitating it is probably a bad idea outright', but doesn't change the fundamental issue of 'what do I say to get across the appeal to others?'
"Beauty is only skin-deep, whereas marriage is for life. Sabrina's husband may not be conventionally attractive, but he's always ready to lend an ear (Well, metaphorically) and is committed to protecting all she holds dear, and aren't those much more important than how many eyes you have?"
Alternatively:
"When the Baron of Soul-Consuming Carapace Shadows sent out a call for bride candidates, Sabrina was surprised to find that no one else volunteered for this honor, and felt bad imagining so many girls rejecting the man. Sure, he was a reclusive presence people rarely saw at all and never when the sun was shining, but he'd never done wrong by anyone that Sabrina knew, which was more than she could say about several of her suitors..."
Or:
"Sabrina wasn't expecting her marriage responsibilities to include riding to war leading her husband's insectoid soldiers to slay his foes, but she's taken to the task with gusto and cheer. Her only regret is that it cuts into the time she spends with her lovely husband, the Baron of Soul-Consuming Carapace Shadows."
Actually, it was. Most Quest summaries I've seen are pretty stilted and prone to providing 'hooks' like "have you ever wanted to be X in Y situation? Then boy howdy do I have a Quest for you!" Fanfic Quests rely on familiarity with the source material to do a lot of the work for them ("You're an X in Y context in Z setting in this Quest. I don't need to say a bunch of relevant info because I'm assuming anyone reading this knows the source material and so you'll get excited about bashing in elf heads or preventing Bad Canon Event or whatever all on your own"), but of course MMQ is not such. Original setting Quests that aren't hitting the 'if you like X, you might like this' sort of note just leave me personally going 'okay, so you're... some kind of... superhero setting or some such... but why am I supposed to care?'
I do think it'd be better if you wrote something yourself. I was serious about making the summary a short letter from Sabrina to her mom, but I think anything you write should be good as long as you're not in your own head about having to write an ad. Because I've liked everything you've written in this quest that wasn't you trying to write an ad.
I used ads as the comparison point, but marketing in a more general sense is what I'm talking about, as in the act of presenting something so people who might care will be reasonably likely to recognize what the thing is to go 'oh, that is A Thing I Want!' instead of passing right over it is Not Relevant To Me. My default style is If You Build It, They Will Come, by which I mean I do my thing and let people find it and pass judgment and all on their own and don't worry terribly much about things like first impressions, in no small part because the conclusions other people draw from first impressions often mystify me. (eg other people see a magical girl anime and go 'just like Sailor Moon!' and then... are somehow blindsided by the anime dealing with very dark topics in a potentially very depressing way? So... exactly like Sailor Moon?)
Scheduled vote count started by Ghoul King on Oct 4, 2024 at 7:11 PM, finished with 41 posts and 17 votes.
[x]"Yeah, let's do that." It doesn't sound dangerous, and it would help a lot...
[X]"Maybe another day." There were so many catches Yvette didn't mention. You'd rather not risk tripping right over yet another one. Not when it's not necessary.
"Beauty is only skin-deep, whereas marriage is for life. Sabrina's husband may not be conventionally attractive, but he's always ready to lend an ear (Well, metaphorically) and is committed to protecting all she holds dear, and aren't those much more important than how many eyes you have?"
Alternatively:
"When the Baron of Soul-Consuming Carapace Shadows sent out a call for bride candidates, Sabrina was surprised to find that no one else volunteered for this honor, and felt bad imagining so many girls rejecting the man. Sure, he was a reclusive presence people rarely saw at all and never when the sun was shining, but he'd never done wrong by anyone that Sabrina knew, which was more than she could say about several of her suitors..."
Or:
"Sabrina wasn't expecting her marriage responsibilities to include riding to war leading her husband's insectoid soldiers to slay his foes, but she's taken to the task with gusto and cheer. Her only regret is that it cuts into the time she spends with her lovely husband, the Baron of Soul-Consuming Carapace Shadows."
"Sabrina wasn't expecting her marriage responsibilities to include riding to war leading her husband's insectoid soldiers to slay his foes, but she's taken to the task with gusto and cheer. Her only regret is that it cuts into the time she spends with her lovely husband, the Baron of Soul-Consuming Carapace Shadows."
"When the Baron of Soul-Consuming Carapace Shadows sent out a call for bride candidates, Sabrina was surprised to find that no one else volunteered for this honor, and felt bad imagining so many girls rejecting the man. Sure, he was a reclusive presence people rarely saw at all and never when the sun was shining, but he'd never done wrong by anyone that Sabrina knew, which was more than she could say about several of her suitors..."
This one would have caught my attention the most quickly with the full name drop for our lovely caras. (As in who would get named that?!) It also includes intriguing detail about suitors which would make me want to learn more about abrinas standards.
I think all of them work though.
Although unrelated to drawing attention to this quest...I really would like it if we had an option to write home, especially exercising what information to put in such a letter or not.
Back when extending the Integration was being discussed...
"Yeah, let's do that." This seemed as safe as this process could get, really, and it would be nice to not have so much competition between 'spend time with Caras' and 'carry out important duties'.
"Alright, we'll try it as soon as we get home. As for other options..."
As the gate finishes shutting, Caras turns to you and says, "Okay- hrm. You should probably sit down before we start."
It takes you a moment to realize Caras is thinking of extending the Integration. "Uh... why?"
"I'm given to understand that there's often oddities when first making such changes. You should be fine in short order, but I'd hate for you to hurt yourself in a fall. It's apparently a risk."
"Oh? You're extending Lady Sabrina's Integration? I'd been under the impression this wasn't a priority," Virmire comments.
You first sit down, then decide to lie down when it occurs to you the floor is stone and find yourself imagining even just smacking your head from a sitting position. "Ready!" you say with a little apprehension.
Caras' antennae start glowing green as he distractedely comments, "She brought it up herself..."
...
Um.
You can't hear- and now you're blind. Wait! Not blind, just missing the Gendarmerie visi- okay now you're blind. Uh... now you can't feel the cold stone you're laying on... you try moving a hand a little, and it sure feels like it's doing what you want, but if it's touching anything? You can't tell.
"...eemed safe enough, and it shouldn't hurt her daylight duties any."
Oh! You can hear again!... still can't see. Or feel.
"It would enhance her ability there, I should think. Less time spent on the 'sleep' thing. It's clearly not entirely under her control when it happens."
And suddenly you're keenly aware of how cold the stone is. Moving your hands gives you touch feedback that matches what you see.
You wait probably thirty seconds while Caras and Virmire keep talking about whatever they're talking about, making sure everything is in working order, your sense of balance is still there, and so on, but... it seems done? You feel fine? Hungry for Scuttlers all of a sudden, but the looming sense that you'd need to sleep at some point is... just gone? You feel rather like you often do maybe ten minutes after you've first woken up: too awake to even consider lying back down, well-rested, and a bit antsy to have a task to get to.
Then you stand up, cautiously at first, but when nothing odd happens you veritably bounce to your feet. Wow. This does feel pretty nice. You can see why Yvette was so positive on it.
"Oh. I'd somewhat expected it to take fifteen minutes. Not... three?"
"It was two, Sire."
"Interesting."
"Okay! This is... weirdly nice? I feel surprisingly good. But hungry. Hungry for Scuttlers. Very specifically Scuttlers." You find yourself looking around for if any are in reach to snatch up and eat right now. (There aren't. They rarely are in the courtyard at all)
"That's expected. You'll have a slightly higher need to feed the internal partner now. I suspect it'll be especially so to start. A meal is being laid out right now."
You tear through six Scuttlers before you slow down and start eating other things, not to mention drinking.
You also finally question the vegetable mush and the spicy thing. They've been getting served this entire time, and Caras and Virmire do eat both of them, even though fruits and vegetables can't be fed to the Heart?
"I really should've asked months ago," you say in a moment where you're not chewing or swallowing anything. "But there's a burning spicy thing that looks vegetable to me, and some kind of... mush... and with all I know now they seem out of place?"
"The 'burning spicy thing' is a cleanser. It's not a vegetable, it's made by the Renderer, and its purpose is to be eaten alongside the Scuttlers to minimize the odds of being poisoned by something they ate and haven't finished processing."
"Virmire IV died to that issue. I most likely suffered some harm as well, but didn't realize because the size disparity protected me. The cleanser is normally supposed to be for emergency field use, where you eat something non-processed and only maybe die, in cases where a force expects to be away from the Pool for a very long time, but I haven't needed it for that... gosh, possibly ever? No, wait, maybe when I was first moving here..."
Okay, so the fact that you've been avoiding eating it this whole time is fine. You don't need help to eat regular foods. "Interesting. What about the mush?"
"It's a fungus, actually. It was growing in the castle when I moved in, a Worker tried it and was fine, and I've simply incorporated it as free food. I've sometimes wondered if the previous owner developed it somehow, but I've no idea how I'd determine that. The Renderer thinks it's fine, the Heart rejects it, but Breeds can eat it to supplement Pool usage. Odd stuff."
Hmmm. Maybe you can ask someone connected to the Council at some point.
Oh!
"Do you remember which village killed Runners you stationed in it, dear?"
"Um..."
"It was Ville de Luminous, Lady Sabrina. They've always been recalcitrant about... many things."
With dinner handled, you feel... absurdly wide awake still. It's kind of disorienting? You're going to take a while to get used to Always Being Wide Awake.
So now it's sometime early in the morning, and you've got a lot of things you could be getting to. Including spending more time with Caras, of course! But currently you have an almost-manic need to do something more active than talking and hugging. (Yvette didn't act this twitchy -you're mostly sure- so hopefully this doesn't last forever)
Topics you've got on your mind include...
[]Spend a couple hours writing a letter to your family. You don't really want to go visit them right now, but it's been months since you last interacted with them, and you'd like them to at least be sure you're not dead.
[]Go talk to Svenja. She is awake by now, right? You can try to hash out ideas for how to occupy her that stay within the rules binding Caras. Maybe she'd like to come with you when you go elsewhere? It shouldn't take long to just talk to her...
[]Check in on Ada real quick. It's probably too soon, but maybe she views things a little differently now that she's in a room with more sunlight? It would be a quick check-in...
[]Checking in on the North Sea area. Terre de Moutons is on the way, but you don't think Caras has any towns on the actual ocean shore. Which seems strange now that you think about it. Were the raids so fierce?
[]Checking up on the border road with the traps and so on. You can be escorted by Rollers and Suncrawlers, and it should only take part of the day.
[]Visiting a village, now that you can do so in the daytime without this creating sleep schedule problems. It'll take a few days, but maybe that'll give you time to settle down. You'll take Rollers and Suncrawlers, of course, just in case there's trouble or the like, plus a Gatekeeper.
-[]Abandonne. It's been quite a while since you've seen your family, and Abandonne is apparently underperforming on its sheep tax. Two for one deal!
-[]Ville Luminous. You remember a Virmire suspected they were underreporting their size. You should look into that. And just familiarize yourself with Caras' territory more anyway. And you remember that for some reason they don't like Caras? It's the largest town in Caras' territory, that's kind of problematic! And they killed Runners decades ago... maybe you can get the story there.
-[]Terre de Moutons. To check on Felix and Konrad, and to see if you can figure out anything useful about why their sheep are so vigorous.
-[]Lac de Glace. You'd like to ask more questions about the Szumowiny issue, see if they actually talk with their Scaled Folk, that sort of thing.
-[]One of the small towns whose name you don't know. You'd like to dig more into the issue of their own tax contributions, and better know Caras' territory.
-[]One of the disputed towns on the Ice Lake shore. Do they have opinions on this border dispute? Maybe you can talk them into siding with Caras...
-[]Estvallee. You still don't have any idea what happened to the place once its inhabitants were killed and are still wondering if maybe new tenants have moved in without Caras realizing it. Maybe it's a bandit bolthole now!
[]Prep an armed escort and check out the accidental Bandit Fort to the northwest. See if you can undo that damage. It's not far off from Terre de Moutons...
-[]Violence is the answer. Yes, they're 'your' bandits, but they're still bandits, and getting worse now that they have their little fort to hide in.
-[]Diplomacy is the answer. You did send the initial bandits in, and it was sort of implied this was redemptive, like their crimes would be pardoned if they did this. You shouldn't casually break that kind of promise, even when it wasn't explicit. You're... less sure of how to handle the other bandits flocking to the fort...
[]Write-in.
(This is not a 'pick one' vote. I'd rather people don't vote more than three things apiece, but this will be variably interpreted by me according to how the top votes fit together: if multiple ideas can all be smoothly done as one trip, they will be. If the top two votes are at serious odds with each other, then I'll go with just one vote to run with. Etc. And do feel especially free to throw in write-ins: just keep them short and to the point.
Also, have a map:
So you can make more informed decisions about where to go, visualizing where things are relative to each other)
We should write a letter back home to see if Dad has passed, or not. I imagine it's not something Sabrina would feel good about *not* knowing about for a long time.