- Location
- madison
so it seems carras is not actually that much worse at politics than most of his kind huh.
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Monster Marriage Quest
- Thread starter Ghoul King
- Start date
- Original Romance Horror
- Location
- The Great Beyond
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
Not neccesarily;
now the fact that this is implied to extend down to respective breeds implies so, but given Caras wasn't made with sunproofing ergo not sunproofed, it's entirely possible that ye overlord-y types in general work fundamentally on the same principles and, ergo, can't be improved with techniques that postdate their construction- this seems to be how breeds in general work, given the whole 'self rendering' process that came up when Caras was experimenting.
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- She/Her
How would the sharing be done? I'm doing a reread and I think I remember it said that the Gatekeepers worm sniffing ability was modular (but I can't refind it).
Would the sharing be of the entire Gatekeeper Breed or just of the worm sniffing ability? The best option for the Council would be the entire Breed, as integrating the stand-alone ability would take some of their time and introduce the possibility of errors without any burner worms to test against.
Also, if we wanted to be malicious we could share this:
Would the sharing be of the entire Gatekeeper Breed or just of the worm sniffing ability? The best option for the Council would be the entire Breed, as integrating the stand-alone ability would take some of their time and introduce the possibility of errors without any burner worms to test against.
Also, if we wanted to be malicious we could share this:
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- Location
- Earth
I agree it's possible to be malicious this way, but I'm opposed to this idea.
I'm not convinced the council is good, or even just capable of reliable communication, but I'm unwilling to vote in favor of Sabrina being evil in such a fashion that will get innocent people killed simply for political or military points.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
It would definitely be a terrible idea, yes.
- Location
- Wherever
The Quest keeps talking around specifics partly because I was still hammering it out behind the scenes initially and partially because after I had the specifics reasonably firm it was mostly too late to have it come up organically in the Quest, but realistically the basics would already have come up if I'd planned things better, so I'm just going to put it here for now. (And hopefully have Sabrina knowing these basics come up explicitly in near-future updates)
A Heart has 3 'layers' to the design process. There's Cores, which are a modular package of some kind that provides a Heart an explanation of how to do something specific, but isn't a full creature in its own right. Think sharing the concept of sloped armor with another country without necessarily giving them your actual tank blueprints. Then there's Breeds, which is the fully-packaged design for a complete creature: this takes up 'slots' in the Heart's memory (A given Heart can't have infinity designs stored), but is not really directly transferable for reasons Sabrina is unfamiliar with. Extracting specific elements from a Breed's blueprint to store in the form of a Core is a specific effort that isn't necessarily bothered with except as part of trading, or if Caras stumbled into something interesting he wants to have available for later even though he doesn't have a clear use for it right now. (eg the super-venom, which he didn't want to integrate into any Breed design when he made it but didn't want to metaphorically throw in the trash)
The third layer is what I'm going to call the 'testing' layer: temporarily-stored designs with zero transferability, which can be iterated on and modified before finally being 'locked in' as either a complete Breed or a Core. This is what was being used when the Suncrawler and Roller designs were in R&D.
So to answer your question more directly: Caras will have to expend time/effort/some amount of resources into copying the Gatekeeper's Burner Worm-sensing mechanism into a Core. (Or possibly multiple Cores: Sabrina isn't clear exactly how repeated Core transfers work, and also more Cores being made is certainly an option to consider if the goal is to spread them around faster) The Core will then have to be physically shipped out to whoever all will receive it. (The Council, if nothing else) Then they spend a bit tinkering with integrating it into one or more of their own Breed designs, arrive at something they're happy with, and engage mass-production.
Tithed_Verse
Vainglorious
- Location
- Iowa
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Statement: We've got two 'cores' for burner worm sniffers. An outdated one and the modern one.
I think that some breeds will find the outdated one more useful and others will find the modern one more useful.
We should make sure to offer both.
I think that some breeds will find the outdated one more useful and others will find the modern one more useful.
We should make sure to offer both.
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- Earth
A Gendarme heart stores three types of information
Some questions for you, @Ghoul King
Some commentary critique that I'll be completely unoffended if you ignore
- Breeds - a complete creature
- Cores - an idea that can be used with a breed
- Scratch pad - metaphorical clay, that can be shaped into creatures, and if desired, converted into breeds or cores
Some questions for you, @Ghoul King
- Is the number of slots for both breeds and cores combined, or are those numbers tracked separately?
- Do heart slot increase with either or both of resources or age?
- Can breeds be recreated from captured living creatures?
- What's the general creation time for a new breed or core (days, months, years, decades?)
- Can breeds be modified on the fly with cores, or does a new breed need to be created? A roller with gatekeeper senses, for example
- Are human modifications done with cores?
Some commentary critique that I'll be completely unoffended if you ignore
- Breeds shouldn't refer to two things, both the creature and the information. Maybe engram, for the unit of creating a breed that is not the breed itself?
- Don't give us questors an exact number of slots in the heart. That will result in a lot of numbers discussions that seem out is tune with the quest.
- I feel like fully new breed designs should take months, with years of effort for fully optimized forms.
- Cores and (engrams) could be on the outside of a heart, and readily stealable. That would explain a number of concern focused comments about their precious nature. Loading a heart is death, so if the cores are deep inside a heart then there's no effective difference.
- Cores should be able to unreliably affect engrams to create useful one offs, with variable success and usually markedly shortened lifespan. Successful enough though to make not creating a fully new engram worthwhile in many cases. Gatekeeper senses on a flyer, for example, just to quickly spot check for infestation.
- Are hearts transportable? I feel vaguely like the answer must be yes, but as a huge undertaking in most cases.
- Imbuing the potential to create a new heart into a new overlord can never be an engram. Such a creature is always a one off breed created with the scratch pad.
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- Wherever
Not sure if I'll be able to close the vote before Monday, but currently 'comment on compensation' is winning by... a lot. Though initially 'just hand it over' grabbed the lead before discussion happened, so hey, maybe by Monday you folks will have caught me off guard again with a significant change!
Cores are actually a separate organism. (This was seen during the Core trade, when they were kept in boxes) In theory, a Gendarme Lord could have an arbitrarily large stockpile so long as they had a method of ensuring the Cores didn't die. In practice the need to feed and otherwise maintain the Cores means there's only so many that can be stored, and Caras, at least, doesn't see it worth 'floating' more than a few, since they're not doing useful work but are eating resources.
Sabrina doesn't know.
Sabrina would be very surprised if this is straightforwardly possible.
That depends on how you define it, but has already been partially addressed:
A several-day process of getting to the point of a 'test bed' (something actually growable, stored in the temporary memory), then at least a week past that for going from 'test bed' to 'anything useful', and then an uncertain period beyond that. (In this case, I was vague on how many days passed, but it was in the range of 1-3 weeks before the final Suncrawler/Roller designs were set) So probably something like a month to go from 'got a new Core' to 'have final designs for mass production'.
If you're asking about overall R&D timetables, the answer is 'extremely variable, but generally slower than the prior'. Caras has been around for decades, started with some early proto-Worker design he had to kludge into a crappy soldier in the early days plus a proto-Runner design (The First Death of Virmire), and when Sabrina showed up he'd only added Crawlers, Boulders, Divers, Guardians, Gatekeepers, and Haulers. (Plus Virmire and possibly Scuttlers, though the details of these are unclear to Sabrina; he might've started with Scuttlers as well) I forget if I've ever given an exact age for Caras and don't feel up to looking right now, but I'm pretty sure I've indicated he's at least 80 or so years old: that's (at best) 6 meaningfully new designs in 7 decades. (He was a decade old when he set out)
There's questions/factors there that Sabrina doesn't know (eg 'how much does Caras invest into R&D by default') but 'blind' R&D is clearly very slow by comparison to adapting another Gendarme's work.
An existing creature cannot be restructured. A non-standard one can be grown with a Core's assistance (The Boulder with lightning 'hands' was exactly such), but Cores aren't simply video game abilities you modularly slot in and expect them to always instantly work with no issues: like a real organism, everything is interconnected and modifications are likely to have not-immediately-obvious implications that require further modifications to optimize. (There's a reason the variant Boulder hasn't been heard from again: it wasn't a 'final', stable design, and probably failed due to complications sometime after it appeared on-screen)
Sabrina doesn't know! The topic will presumably crop up when Sabrina gets back home and pokes Caras about the topic of maybe extending the Integration.
As far as the Gendarmerie are concerned, it's all one thing.
Think of a video game on a cartridge or a CD or whatever: in daily talk, people don't talk like Super Mario 64's cartridge is a different thing from Super Mario 64's program. You have to go to emulator scenes or similar before you start seeing people throwing around terms like 'rom' that draw a distinction between the program and the hardware the program is loaded on.
By a similar token, Caras doesn't feel a need to separate 'Breed, as in a growable type stored in memory' from 'Breed, as in the type that was grown using that stored design' in verbal distinction.
It doesn't work that way anyway. Different designs can use different numbers of 'slots'.
But yeah, not what I'd do for this Quest. If I ever make a Gendarme Lord Simulator Quest, that would get such a limit clearly-defined, but Sabrina isn't directly interacting with this topic. (And seems unlikely to ever end up doing so)
I'm actually not sure what you're saying here?
They're transportable. It's not even hard: they're not very large by Gendarme standards. (Caras' one, at least, is small enough it could be put on the kind of wagon you might have a couple of horses pulling) It's just very risky/dangerous to transport them: if they're damaged, this can screw up the loaded designs even if the Heart itself isn't seriously harmed. (Sabrina assumes this is yet another factor in why Gendarme Captains usually don't have things work out: the Heart is on a boat? With storms and whatnot potentially tossing the whole thing around violently?)
Once again: not sure what you're trying to say here.
Cores are actually a separate organism. (This was seen during the Core trade, when they were kept in boxes) In theory, a Gendarme Lord could have an arbitrarily large stockpile so long as they had a method of ensuring the Cores didn't die. In practice the need to feed and otherwise maintain the Cores means there's only so many that can be stored, and Caras, at least, doesn't see it worth 'floating' more than a few, since they're not doing useful work but are eating resources.
Sabrina doesn't know.
Sabrina would be very surprised if this is straightforwardly possible.
That depends on how you define it, but has already been partially addressed:
A several-day process of getting to the point of a 'test bed' (something actually growable, stored in the temporary memory), then at least a week past that for going from 'test bed' to 'anything useful', and then an uncertain period beyond that. (In this case, I was vague on how many days passed, but it was in the range of 1-3 weeks before the final Suncrawler/Roller designs were set) So probably something like a month to go from 'got a new Core' to 'have final designs for mass production'.
If you're asking about overall R&D timetables, the answer is 'extremely variable, but generally slower than the prior'. Caras has been around for decades, started with some early proto-Worker design he had to kludge into a crappy soldier in the early days plus a proto-Runner design (The First Death of Virmire), and when Sabrina showed up he'd only added Crawlers, Boulders, Divers, Guardians, Gatekeepers, and Haulers. (Plus Virmire and possibly Scuttlers, though the details of these are unclear to Sabrina; he might've started with Scuttlers as well) I forget if I've ever given an exact age for Caras and don't feel up to looking right now, but I'm pretty sure I've indicated he's at least 80 or so years old: that's (at best) 6 meaningfully new designs in 7 decades. (He was a decade old when he set out)
There's questions/factors there that Sabrina doesn't know (eg 'how much does Caras invest into R&D by default') but 'blind' R&D is clearly very slow by comparison to adapting another Gendarme's work.
An existing creature cannot be restructured. A non-standard one can be grown with a Core's assistance (The Boulder with lightning 'hands' was exactly such), but Cores aren't simply video game abilities you modularly slot in and expect them to always instantly work with no issues: like a real organism, everything is interconnected and modifications are likely to have not-immediately-obvious implications that require further modifications to optimize. (There's a reason the variant Boulder hasn't been heard from again: it wasn't a 'final', stable design, and probably failed due to complications sometime after it appeared on-screen)
Sabrina doesn't know! The topic will presumably crop up when Sabrina gets back home and pokes Caras about the topic of maybe extending the Integration.
As far as the Gendarmerie are concerned, it's all one thing.
Think of a video game on a cartridge or a CD or whatever: in daily talk, people don't talk like Super Mario 64's cartridge is a different thing from Super Mario 64's program. You have to go to emulator scenes or similar before you start seeing people throwing around terms like 'rom' that draw a distinction between the program and the hardware the program is loaded on.
By a similar token, Caras doesn't feel a need to separate 'Breed, as in a growable type stored in memory' from 'Breed, as in the type that was grown using that stored design' in verbal distinction.
It doesn't work that way anyway. Different designs can use different numbers of 'slots'.
But yeah, not what I'd do for this Quest. If I ever make a Gendarme Lord Simulator Quest, that would get such a limit clearly-defined, but Sabrina isn't directly interacting with this topic. (And seems unlikely to ever end up doing so)
I'm actually not sure what you're saying here?
They're transportable. It's not even hard: they're not very large by Gendarme standards. (Caras' one, at least, is small enough it could be put on the kind of wagon you might have a couple of horses pulling) It's just very risky/dangerous to transport them: if they're damaged, this can screw up the loaded designs even if the Heart itself isn't seriously harmed. (Sabrina assumes this is yet another factor in why Gendarme Captains usually don't have things work out: the Heart is on a boat? With storms and whatnot potentially tossing the whole thing around violently?)
Once again: not sure what you're trying to say here.
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- She/Her
This contradicts previous explanations(understandable given it's been so long).
Here Boulder is not a fully-packaged design and instead one that depends on a core.
Additionally there the notion of cores of a Breed design for efficiency.
Two cores of designs and a core of the Crawler's body, which is not is not core of the Crawler's design because it doesn't include the venom and perhaps the neurology.
If a design can't be traded then I think something as gross(thick, dense) as body should also be untradable.
If Breed designs are untradable, are Divers still unlike the other Breeds?
There was also a reference to the reason Caras no longer has the Stabber design was that he traded that core to some Lord. But I'm tired of searching right now and it's trivial to reconcile with the new explanation.
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- Wherever
Oh, thanks for hunting those down: I was pretty sure I had inconsistencies needing to be straightened out, but was kind of dreading hunting them down. I might be able to get those bits rewritten today thanks to you.
'cause yeah, as I said before I was hammering out details behind the scenes, and so those bits were written when my model was incomplete and different. My initial-most concept was actually that Cores were the Breed blueprints, period, where the Core trade would've been straight-up handing over a Crawler's completed design in exchange for another complete design. I didn't shift away from that conceptualization until I'd put significant thought into how to handle a 'voters get to design their own Breed!' concept.
(This was a terrible idea I really, really wanted to do. So badly my last reread surprised me with the fact that I didn't actually inflict it on voters: I was sure I must've done it. On the plus side, trying to figure out how this could work got me thinking about the design process more concretely, so it did lead to better worldbuilding)
My 'second phase' concept didn't entirely do away with that approach, but had me thinking vaguely in terms of Cores being internal instructions for things like 'Boulder shell material is grown this way'. It was more mix-and-match-y of a concept (And hadn't actually done away entirely with Cores-as-complete-designs, just made it only one part of the system), and was what I was thinking of when Caras made a Boulder but with jelly-flesh. (Under the new explanation, this is basically importing the Bouler design to the temporary memory and then modifying it using the Core's instructions) Which I'm mentioning because writing that scene was what got me connecting the whole thing to actual biology's interconnectedness and realizing the easy mix-and-match system didn't really make sense on that level -though I'd already been getting dissatisfied with it by virtue of the Gendarme variety and more specifically the 'identity/theming' aspect illustrated by Soissons having always been intended, and being somewhat difficult to reconcile with Easy Breed Design Trading. (Plus other reasons I can't really talk about because they'd indirectly spoil stuff about the current state of the world and all)
And then the Nightmare Apartment put the Quest on hiatus for years, of course, but I was refining my concept to arrive at what I described last post during that time. Albeit very slowly.
I'll be rewriting that bit, but under the new logic, Caras was actually given multiple Cores (At least three), pulled from a design that was pretty close to the current Diver design, and streamlined his own R&D by assuming that shooting for something like the originating design would result in something workable more quickly than 'blind' R&D. And then apparently basically ignored all this 'water-breathing' and similar stuff as largely irrelevant to him, liquidating those Cores and only doing minimal refinement to the Diver design itself over the decades, but 'Caras heavily ignored the potential of the Diver design's elements' was always intended: if Questors had actually pursued the northern Scaled Folk topic back in the day, I suspect Sabrina would've ended up aggressively complaining to Caras that he should be using these things more.
So: yes.
'cause yeah, as I said before I was hammering out details behind the scenes, and so those bits were written when my model was incomplete and different. My initial-most concept was actually that Cores were the Breed blueprints, period, where the Core trade would've been straight-up handing over a Crawler's completed design in exchange for another complete design. I didn't shift away from that conceptualization until I'd put significant thought into how to handle a 'voters get to design their own Breed!' concept.
(This was a terrible idea I really, really wanted to do. So badly my last reread surprised me with the fact that I didn't actually inflict it on voters: I was sure I must've done it. On the plus side, trying to figure out how this could work got me thinking about the design process more concretely, so it did lead to better worldbuilding)
My 'second phase' concept didn't entirely do away with that approach, but had me thinking vaguely in terms of Cores being internal instructions for things like 'Boulder shell material is grown this way'. It was more mix-and-match-y of a concept (And hadn't actually done away entirely with Cores-as-complete-designs, just made it only one part of the system), and was what I was thinking of when Caras made a Boulder but with jelly-flesh. (Under the new explanation, this is basically importing the Bouler design to the temporary memory and then modifying it using the Core's instructions) Which I'm mentioning because writing that scene was what got me connecting the whole thing to actual biology's interconnectedness and realizing the easy mix-and-match system didn't really make sense on that level -though I'd already been getting dissatisfied with it by virtue of the Gendarme variety and more specifically the 'identity/theming' aspect illustrated by Soissons having always been intended, and being somewhat difficult to reconcile with Easy Breed Design Trading. (Plus other reasons I can't really talk about because they'd indirectly spoil stuff about the current state of the world and all)
And then the Nightmare Apartment put the Quest on hiatus for years, of course, but I was refining my concept to arrive at what I described last post during that time. Albeit very slowly.
I'll be rewriting that bit, but under the new logic, Caras was actually given multiple Cores (At least three), pulled from a design that was pretty close to the current Diver design, and streamlined his own R&D by assuming that shooting for something like the originating design would result in something workable more quickly than 'blind' R&D. And then apparently basically ignored all this 'water-breathing' and similar stuff as largely irrelevant to him, liquidating those Cores and only doing minimal refinement to the Diver design itself over the decades, but 'Caras heavily ignored the potential of the Diver design's elements' was always intended: if Questors had actually pursued the northern Scaled Folk topic back in the day, I suspect Sabrina would've ended up aggressively complaining to Caras that he should be using these things more.
So: yes.
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- She/Her
You did actually, in the same update you explained the cores,(it was during the raid by the Storm Beasts).
It was a vote option in the next update, it was not voted for, everyone focused on other thing. The concept did not reappear latter on.
Edit:
Turns out the Stabber story was in The First Death of Virmire a post I was already quoting. At least it was easy to find thanks to Ctrl-F.
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Lurking_Badger
Cheese Enjoyer
- Location
- Wisconsin
I've actually seen a QM do something that would work for this without bagging down the quest.
Instead of making a full update, the QM did subvotes using the voting threadmarks. Each subvote gave feedback to the players and allowed them to try new things. Once they were satisfied with the results, they voted to stop.
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- Wherever
Alright, I've edited the relevant bits. Most of the editing was minor (I just struck-through the Scuttler vote bit and added an explanation that its lore implications are no longer canon), but Virmire explaining the Heart mechanics required a more significant revision. The relevant section now reads:
I'd also forgotten I didn't initialize capitalize Core, though I'm not going to go through every line and fix it. Not today, at least.
Okay, did not successfully inflict it on voters. (Late in the hiatus, I'd been so sure I'd had a mandatory vote for such and that it had been a disaster. 'Put up terrible idea but it got ignored' is a relief by comparison)
That's interesting, but somewhat at right angles to why I retrospectively think it was a terrible idea to try to push voters into designing a Breed. Bogging down the Quest was a concern I had at the time, actually, but my retrospective concerns have to do with my own limitations (I can keep coherent system rules in my head in a way that makes sense to me, but have never been able to cleanly communicate my internal models to others in a comprehensible manner that conveys the 'big picture'), the probability that if I'd tried to externalize a system it would probably be a mismatch to my intentions regarding the setting (eg Questors identifying something really obviously useful about the ruleset that would logically imply All Gendarmerie Use This Obvious Exploit, forcing me to either do that and reduce their diversity or hit that fiction trope I hate of 'everybody except the protagonist is a moron'), and broader Fictional R&D concerns that would be like five paragraphs at least for me to properly explain my views on. (The short version is that I think it's better to recreate the 'spirit' of exploring unknown systems being learned than it is to literally provide a concrete system for people to actually master, when the goal is for R&D to be an experimental process with lots of missteps and variation and so on. Especially for Quests and Roguelite video games, though for different reasons in each case)
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Anyway, I might end up closing the vote tomorrow given vote discussion seems to be genuinely over and I'm doing better on writing capacity than I was expecting to be doing this weekend. No promises, but it's my hope.
"A grub's potential is defined by the designs the Heart contains. Each design is a... pattern? For example, If the Heart were damaged such that the Boulder's pattern were disrupted, we would be unable to produce further Boulders until the disruption was repaired or the design recreated from scratch. If we did not have their shell's design backed-up in a Core, we would also be unable to experiment with alternate designs using the pattern of the shell, though that's perhaps a poor example as sire has yet to find a satisfactory alternate design. Cores themselves store specific components, such as if a Breed's design is no longer necessary but specific pieces are worth holding onto." Here something like triumph creeps into Virmire's voice. "The core trade is about transferring a copy of one of our cores, or trading away a core we don't expect to use, in exchange for a core that might be of use to us. The Viscount of Dire Hollows has expressed interest in the waterbreathing on our Divers, due to his own troubles with the Scaled People, while sire hopes the Viscount will be offering something opening the way to speed, as he feels the most difficult problem with dealing with the Shellmen is his lack of a truly swift response option."
I'd also forgotten I didn't initialize capitalize Core, though I'm not going to go through every line and fix it. Not today, at least.
Okay, did not successfully inflict it on voters. (Late in the hiatus, I'd been so sure I'd had a mandatory vote for such and that it had been a disaster. 'Put up terrible idea but it got ignored' is a relief by comparison)
That's interesting, but somewhat at right angles to why I retrospectively think it was a terrible idea to try to push voters into designing a Breed. Bogging down the Quest was a concern I had at the time, actually, but my retrospective concerns have to do with my own limitations (I can keep coherent system rules in my head in a way that makes sense to me, but have never been able to cleanly communicate my internal models to others in a comprehensible manner that conveys the 'big picture'), the probability that if I'd tried to externalize a system it would probably be a mismatch to my intentions regarding the setting (eg Questors identifying something really obviously useful about the ruleset that would logically imply All Gendarmerie Use This Obvious Exploit, forcing me to either do that and reduce their diversity or hit that fiction trope I hate of 'everybody except the protagonist is a moron'), and broader Fictional R&D concerns that would be like five paragraphs at least for me to properly explain my views on. (The short version is that I think it's better to recreate the 'spirit' of exploring unknown systems being learned than it is to literally provide a concrete system for people to actually master, when the goal is for R&D to be an experimental process with lots of missteps and variation and so on. Especially for Quests and Roguelite video games, though for different reasons in each case)
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Anyway, I might end up closing the vote tomorrow given vote discussion seems to be genuinely over and I'm doing better on writing capacity than I was expecting to be doing this weekend. No promises, but it's my hope.
Lurking_Badger
Cheese Enjoyer
- Location
- Wisconsin
I think the problem is that you think that you need to explain anything to the questers about your internal rules.
We don't need to know anything about why something works the way it does, just the results of our decisions. If any quester creates some exploit that would retroactively change your world into something you don't like, you can change your internal rules to stop it or make up a reason why it wouldn't work. As the writer, you can just make up whatever you want as long as it feels consistent enough to maintain the suspension of disbelief.
For example, you could have one of your rules be that no Breed can be bipedal. You don't need to explain the rule to anyone, just make it so any bipedal Breed falls over or is disoriented. The questers will learn the limitation of design by the results.
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I'm aware that's how a lot of creators approach fiction of all stripes, but that only works for me as a starting point. (I have a lot of projects where rules start out as 'because I like the idea of X working in Y way', with no deeper starting point. MMQ itself has plenty of elements that started that way, like Gendarme being scary shadow monsters that burn in the sun, but not being The Bad Guys of this story the way those tropes are normally used) At some point there has to be a reason things work as they do, and to a certain extent it's immaterial whether people understand the underlying rules enough to understand why a result occurs; my own internal conception is a coherent ruleset that fits together such that you can't actually change one part in an arbitrary way without regard to consequences, so if voters identified (or stumbled into by accident) a way the rules produce an output I don't want, I can't just trivially 'patch' the system to fix the issue.
And my favorite moments of Questor discussion grow pretty directly out of this insistence of mine. Having voters seriously engaging with the decision they are making as if this is a real world with consistent internal logic (However fantastical elements of it might be) where they can make inferences of how things work and collect together past statements to identify whether theories are accurate or not (eg the "why is only one Council member fireproof?" discussion, where 'Caras wasn't made with sunproofing' got cited as evidence the other Council members probably can't give themselves fireproofing) is my favorite stuff, and the second the rules start to become inconsistent and arbitrary... even if Questors might be able to suspend their disbelief and enjoy the story, that just doesn't provide a foundation for this type of analysis.
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Just the Scuttler? Shouldn't the other core design (and the Crawler body one, maybe) also be struck?
Also do Caras and Virmire eat? They did so in the early updates but this might have changed.
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If you mean the Boulder Core bit, that's the rewritten bit. I'm not sure what else you might be referring to.
The Crawler's 'robust body' is an allusion to how Crawler segments can disconnect and connect while still functioning and all. It's not a plan for the entire shape, just a specific weird aspect of their construction.
They still eat! The Soissons updates have in fact finally given one reasonably clear and specific reason why Caras would be so proud of the Scuttler design: because it's an alternative to relying entirely on the Heart pool to sustain Breeds/Integration in people.
(I was a little surprised no one latched onto that detail, honestly)
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
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- She/Her
My brain latched onto it, but only to say "Hey, that's kinda like yeerks!" and then no more productive thoughts were had. These are the perils of cool alien biology.
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Yes, I believe eating for breeds in general was covered- when not snacking on scuttles or workers, Breeds can also draw sustenance from the Breeding pools generated by the Heart, though a limited amount-
Which is why when Cara's pays taxes he does so via meat, instead of coin…
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Anyway, closing the vote.
Sabrina is indeed bringing up the question of compensation for giving in to this demand.
Update incoming, please stand by.
Though I suspect it won't be finished before tomorrow, fair warning.
Sabrina is indeed bringing up the question of compensation for giving in to this demand.
Update incoming, please stand by.
Though I suspect it won't be finished before tomorrow, fair warning.
Reporting In
- Location
- Wherever
"I would certainly hope my husband would be appropriately compensated for this service to all of the Freelands," pops out of your mouth before it occurs to you that this is a bit more confrontational than what you'd been thinking you'd be doing going on. But really, they are the most powerful people in the Freelands: they should be able to cover at least a fair trade.
Oroxthanp's lips (... not that he has lips per se) press together tightly enough the teeth are all hidden from view: after a moment it occurs to you to wonder if this is more like a human pursing their lips or more like a human squinting or glaring, given the position of his eyes. (Maybe both) "This is compensation for inappropriate delays in reporting to us."
You cock an eyebrow. "A delay caused by obeying the Council's assignment to protect the border." Oroxthanp makes a distinctly displeased growling sound.
"I would say asking for compensation is fair," Sussuron says, sounding amused. "A young border Lord has good cause to guard well what little they have going for them..."
... rude? You think?
Fa-Zoliv at last speaks up here. They are perhaps the most intensely strange member of the Council to your eyes: a bulbous form made seemingly of starkly white bone held up by four legs terminating in claws producing a plus shape, with a pair of... arms?... tubes?... whatever they are, they sprout from just above the legs, curving up along the side of the main body, each with three gaps along the way that you're-not-sure-what sticks out of, with these arms-or-whatever ending in stubby antennae glowing the usual green. The enormous lower jaw hanging from behind and below the main body, studded with sharp teeth, is disconcerting to see flapping as they speak. The four Gendarme eyes are the only part you find reasonably un-strange.
"Compensation can be discussed later. The report is still not complete. No decision should be made before we have the complete picture."
"Oh yes, good point." "Mustn't get distracted." "After. Confirm after." "Too right."
Flittertrust finally says something. Flittertrust is... snake-like? Or maybe more like a flower?... they have a triangular head divided into three outer points with an eye apiece surrounding a mouth, with teeth and glowing antennae along the edge of the head, hanging down, where the head is at the end of a flexible and too-small-looking stalk studded with those jewels-or-whatever that Sussuron has. At the base is what you want to interpret as tiny legs, but you can't clearly rule out the possibility of being... roots or some such. Flittertrust has yet to move from their position, anyway...
"Who made the decision to assign this task to an unproven youth?"
"Technically speaking nobody did. He moved in when the prior holder failed. It was left to me to judge whether the border could be held by a youth or if rearrangement might be necessary. The information at the time suggested it wasn't worth the hassle, so I formally assigned it to him by default."
"Commoners haven't been a problem in centuries. Too committed to their sub-branch of the Great Plan faith. Unwilling to adapt. Resenting possible allies. It was a reasonable decision."
"How many has he killed?" Zyzixion suddenly asks you, sounding something other than bored for the first time in this conversation.
"Um..." you dig around in Virmire's notes, already knowing there isn't a specific number in here but not remembering if there's estimates or similar. "My husband doesn't have the best head for numbers, I'm afraid..."
"So he kills too many to count," Zyzixion says with approval.
"That's not-"
"Good work," and then she seems to lose interest in the conversation, turning away.
Uh...
It takes you a moment to recollect yourself and remember where you actually were before the whole 'burners vs Burner Worms' miscommunication thing came up. You find your place in Virmire's notes, and start rattling off details about raids from the Northern Sea, often supported by Scaled Folk-
"That's a ways east from Fomor. We should message the Admiral of Icy Horrors From the Depths; he shouldn't have let them get so near there in the first place."
-and from there cover the mundanities of taxation and what census figures Caras has taken-
"Poor census records. Work to improve here." "Are those figures correct? You should be taxing harder. That rate is only appropriate for lean times."
-wrap back to the Commoners to give an overview of your own adventure in Neustadt and what you learned there of recent political and religious changes in the Common Lands-
"They object to Gendarme stewardship still, but willingly ingest flaming parasites?" "It's the light thing. They worship the sun or something." "Not that alone. Sunproofing techniques do not placate them." "I still say they must have some infectious insanity."
-and in the process mention the Szumowiny kidnappers-
"I don't know these. Anybody else?" "Never killed one." "Doesn't ring a bell." "Not in my skies." "I have some travelers' reports that might match, but you know how unreliable those are."
"... your Baron is unlucky," Oroxthanp surprises you by admitting with what sounds like grudging respect.
-and covering miscellaneous topics in the notes. Once finished summarizing (and explaining in more detail, the handful of times questions were asked), you're left with a feeling as if surely there must be more to say of note, but you're not sure what you haven't covered the Council might expect to hear about vs what they might consider a waste of time.
"This seems mostly-satisfactory aside being late and with poor census records," Chistomique comments while you're trying to think of what else to say.
"Census records are rarely prioritized highly. Most Lords that impressed us with their meticulousness didn't last long: good decisions are more important than good note-taking. Which brings us to the second part of this review: future intentions."
There's an expectant pause. You eventually say, "Excuse me, Premièreombre Plenarios, but I was not briefed on... whatever is expected of me now?"
Flittertrust makes an annoyed sound. "Youths." They offer no explanation for this comment.
"Now now, it's uncommon for a Lord to merit our full attention." After a pause, Mortifère-ami adds, "Especially to make an adequate accounting so that this second part becomes necessary." That sounds... ominous to you?
"Future intentions. Plans. Explanations of reasoning. Surely your Baron has goals, ideas, desires, methods? How to make things as he wishes in a decade's time." Fa-Zoliv explains.
Ah. Well. You're... not sure Caras has actual plans as such. Goals, certainly, like getting the Commoners to stop shipping in Burner Worms and so on, but... you're not sure whether he has plans but has not made you privy to them (He was very reluctant to share info about Cores and whatnot, initially), or if he is just taking things one day at a time (Well, one night at a time) so to speak, but you don't really recall any ten-year plans or similar.
But apparently he's expected to have longer-term plans?
You take a minute to consider your response.
[]"If he does, he's yet to share them with me." Basic honesty on your part, but also a bit... manipulative, potentially. If you run home and tell Caras to come up with a plan, then the Council has no way to tell the difference between 'he did have a plan already' and 'he didn't, but can pretend he did'. You're not sure if the Council will think of this scenario.
[]"My husband has been dealing with too many pressing issues to commit much thought to the long view." You're not certain this is accurate to why Caras hasn't mentioned such long-term plans to you, but it feels correct to you, and it certainly can't be contradicted as a statement.
[]"I think it would be a mistake for him to have such plans, given how turbulent things have been." Imagine if he'd hinged a plan on developing Estvallee; said hypothetical plan would not have survived Estvallee's death.
[]"Of course he plans to develop his territory, improve his Breeds, and otherwise strive to do better." You're quite certain he has such intentions. You could say him marrying you was an example of such! Not that you'd be able to name specifics if asked...
[]"We were in the middle of executing such a plan regarding the Commoners and their Burner Worms when your agent showed up, actually." True! Albeit this was mostly your work rather than plotted out by Caras, and you're not entirely sure how the Council would view that aspect.
[]"We trust in the Great Plan, of course." With meeting the Breed priest a few days back, you've been thinking about religion a bit since then, and it is true you and Caras behave as priests say one is supposed to. You were explicitly told the Council has little love for religion, of course, but that doesn't mean they won't accept such an answer as real. It'll probably lower their opinions of Caras, admittedly...
[]"Of course he does! Allow me to elucidate..." You can spin up something plausible-sounding from what he has been doing: focus on the notion he's been developing sunproofing techniques and suggest it's groundwork for later plans to wage war on the Commoners, and that certainly sounds plausible from the outside, yes? Just... involves a pretty big lie to the highest authority in the land.
[]Write-in. (I'll be surprised if anyone comes up with anything great that isn't covered here)
(Took longer than I thought it would, especially given this isn't even as long as last update, but did get it up on Monday like I said.
And the topic of compensation will be explored more properly in a later update, don't worry)
Oroxthanp's lips (... not that he has lips per se) press together tightly enough the teeth are all hidden from view: after a moment it occurs to you to wonder if this is more like a human pursing their lips or more like a human squinting or glaring, given the position of his eyes. (Maybe both) "This is compensation for inappropriate delays in reporting to us."
You cock an eyebrow. "A delay caused by obeying the Council's assignment to protect the border." Oroxthanp makes a distinctly displeased growling sound.
"I would say asking for compensation is fair," Sussuron says, sounding amused. "A young border Lord has good cause to guard well what little they have going for them..."
... rude? You think?
Fa-Zoliv at last speaks up here. They are perhaps the most intensely strange member of the Council to your eyes: a bulbous form made seemingly of starkly white bone held up by four legs terminating in claws producing a plus shape, with a pair of... arms?... tubes?... whatever they are, they sprout from just above the legs, curving up along the side of the main body, each with three gaps along the way that you're-not-sure-what sticks out of, with these arms-or-whatever ending in stubby antennae glowing the usual green. The enormous lower jaw hanging from behind and below the main body, studded with sharp teeth, is disconcerting to see flapping as they speak. The four Gendarme eyes are the only part you find reasonably un-strange.
"Compensation can be discussed later. The report is still not complete. No decision should be made before we have the complete picture."
"Oh yes, good point." "Mustn't get distracted." "After. Confirm after." "Too right."
Flittertrust finally says something. Flittertrust is... snake-like? Or maybe more like a flower?... they have a triangular head divided into three outer points with an eye apiece surrounding a mouth, with teeth and glowing antennae along the edge of the head, hanging down, where the head is at the end of a flexible and too-small-looking stalk studded with those jewels-or-whatever that Sussuron has. At the base is what you want to interpret as tiny legs, but you can't clearly rule out the possibility of being... roots or some such. Flittertrust has yet to move from their position, anyway...
"Who made the decision to assign this task to an unproven youth?"
"Technically speaking nobody did. He moved in when the prior holder failed. It was left to me to judge whether the border could be held by a youth or if rearrangement might be necessary. The information at the time suggested it wasn't worth the hassle, so I formally assigned it to him by default."
"Commoners haven't been a problem in centuries. Too committed to their sub-branch of the Great Plan faith. Unwilling to adapt. Resenting possible allies. It was a reasonable decision."
"How many has he killed?" Zyzixion suddenly asks you, sounding something other than bored for the first time in this conversation.
"Um..." you dig around in Virmire's notes, already knowing there isn't a specific number in here but not remembering if there's estimates or similar. "My husband doesn't have the best head for numbers, I'm afraid..."
"So he kills too many to count," Zyzixion says with approval.
"That's not-"
"Good work," and then she seems to lose interest in the conversation, turning away.
Uh...
It takes you a moment to recollect yourself and remember where you actually were before the whole 'burners vs Burner Worms' miscommunication thing came up. You find your place in Virmire's notes, and start rattling off details about raids from the Northern Sea, often supported by Scaled Folk-
"That's a ways east from Fomor. We should message the Admiral of Icy Horrors From the Depths; he shouldn't have let them get so near there in the first place."
-and from there cover the mundanities of taxation and what census figures Caras has taken-
"Poor census records. Work to improve here." "Are those figures correct? You should be taxing harder. That rate is only appropriate for lean times."
-wrap back to the Commoners to give an overview of your own adventure in Neustadt and what you learned there of recent political and religious changes in the Common Lands-
"They object to Gendarme stewardship still, but willingly ingest flaming parasites?" "It's the light thing. They worship the sun or something." "Not that alone. Sunproofing techniques do not placate them." "I still say they must have some infectious insanity."
-and in the process mention the Szumowiny kidnappers-
"I don't know these. Anybody else?" "Never killed one." "Doesn't ring a bell." "Not in my skies." "I have some travelers' reports that might match, but you know how unreliable those are."
"... your Baron is unlucky," Oroxthanp surprises you by admitting with what sounds like grudging respect.
-and covering miscellaneous topics in the notes. Once finished summarizing (and explaining in more detail, the handful of times questions were asked), you're left with a feeling as if surely there must be more to say of note, but you're not sure what you haven't covered the Council might expect to hear about vs what they might consider a waste of time.
"This seems mostly-satisfactory aside being late and with poor census records," Chistomique comments while you're trying to think of what else to say.
"Census records are rarely prioritized highly. Most Lords that impressed us with their meticulousness didn't last long: good decisions are more important than good note-taking. Which brings us to the second part of this review: future intentions."
There's an expectant pause. You eventually say, "Excuse me, Premièreombre Plenarios, but I was not briefed on... whatever is expected of me now?"
Flittertrust makes an annoyed sound. "Youths." They offer no explanation for this comment.
"Now now, it's uncommon for a Lord to merit our full attention." After a pause, Mortifère-ami adds, "Especially to make an adequate accounting so that this second part becomes necessary." That sounds... ominous to you?
"Future intentions. Plans. Explanations of reasoning. Surely your Baron has goals, ideas, desires, methods? How to make things as he wishes in a decade's time." Fa-Zoliv explains.
Ah. Well. You're... not sure Caras has actual plans as such. Goals, certainly, like getting the Commoners to stop shipping in Burner Worms and so on, but... you're not sure whether he has plans but has not made you privy to them (He was very reluctant to share info about Cores and whatnot, initially), or if he is just taking things one day at a time (Well, one night at a time) so to speak, but you don't really recall any ten-year plans or similar.
But apparently he's expected to have longer-term plans?
You take a minute to consider your response.
[]"If he does, he's yet to share them with me." Basic honesty on your part, but also a bit... manipulative, potentially. If you run home and tell Caras to come up with a plan, then the Council has no way to tell the difference between 'he did have a plan already' and 'he didn't, but can pretend he did'. You're not sure if the Council will think of this scenario.
[]"My husband has been dealing with too many pressing issues to commit much thought to the long view." You're not certain this is accurate to why Caras hasn't mentioned such long-term plans to you, but it feels correct to you, and it certainly can't be contradicted as a statement.
[]"I think it would be a mistake for him to have such plans, given how turbulent things have been." Imagine if he'd hinged a plan on developing Estvallee; said hypothetical plan would not have survived Estvallee's death.
[]"Of course he plans to develop his territory, improve his Breeds, and otherwise strive to do better." You're quite certain he has such intentions. You could say him marrying you was an example of such! Not that you'd be able to name specifics if asked...
[]"We were in the middle of executing such a plan regarding the Commoners and their Burner Worms when your agent showed up, actually." True! Albeit this was mostly your work rather than plotted out by Caras, and you're not entirely sure how the Council would view that aspect.
[]"We trust in the Great Plan, of course." With meeting the Breed priest a few days back, you've been thinking about religion a bit since then, and it is true you and Caras behave as priests say one is supposed to. You were explicitly told the Council has little love for religion, of course, but that doesn't mean they won't accept such an answer as real. It'll probably lower their opinions of Caras, admittedly...
[]"Of course he does! Allow me to elucidate..." You can spin up something plausible-sounding from what he has been doing: focus on the notion he's been developing sunproofing techniques and suggest it's groundwork for later plans to wage war on the Commoners, and that certainly sounds plausible from the outside, yes? Just... involves a pretty big lie to the highest authority in the land.
[]Write-in. (I'll be surprised if anyone comes up with anything great that isn't covered here)
(Took longer than I thought it would, especially given this isn't even as long as last update, but did get it up on Monday like I said.
And the topic of compensation will be explored more properly in a later update, don't worry)
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X]"We were in the middle of executing such a plan regarding the Commoners and their Burner Worms when your agent showed up, actually." True! Albeit this was mostly your work rather than plotted out by Caras, and you're not entirely sure how the Council would view that aspect.
We've made contact with sympathetic elements in Neustadt, inflamed class tension there, and kidnapped a junior priest to learn more about their weaponization of the burner worms. Long-term he might get rid of the priests there, leaving either a more peaceful neighbor, or if things go very well, an expansion to his domain.
Dealing with the Commoners has always been his priority. After a long period of fighting to keep the status quo, there's been a lot of recent progress.
We've made contact with sympathetic elements in Neustadt, inflamed class tension there, and kidnapped a junior priest to learn more about their weaponization of the burner worms. Long-term he might get rid of the priests there, leaving either a more peaceful neighbor, or if things go very well, an expansion to his domain.
Dealing with the Commoners has always been his priority. After a long period of fighting to keep the status quo, there's been a lot of recent progress.
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- Location
- St. Petersburg
Since we are here on Caras' behalf, anything we sign up for becomes his plan for the foreseeable future. That's one way to involve yourself with things.
[x]"We were in the middle of executing such a plan regarding the Commoners and their Burner Worms when your agent showed up, actually." True! Albeit this was mostly your work rather than plotted out by Caras, and you're not entirely sure how the Council would view that aspect.
So long as we don't make that distinction, the Council won't have a reason to.
[x]"We were in the middle of executing such a plan regarding the Commoners and their Burner Worms when your agent showed up, actually." True! Albeit this was mostly your work rather than plotted out by Caras, and you're not entirely sure how the Council would view that aspect.
So long as we don't make that distinction, the Council won't have a reason to.
- Location
- PA
…Crap. I should re-read to be sure…But yeah we've done work on the Burner worms/Brandsifters and how to handle those…
[x]"We were in the middle of executing such a plan regarding the Commoners and their Burner Worms when your agent showed up, actually." True! Albeit this was mostly your work rather than plotted out by Caras, and you're not entirely sure how the Council would view that aspect.
[x]"We were in the middle of executing such a plan regarding the Commoners and their Burner Worms when your agent showed up, actually." True! Albeit this was mostly your work rather than plotted out by Caras, and you're not entirely sure how the Council would view that aspect.