Monster Marriage Quest

I think we lack way too much information to be giving away the core for free, regardless of compensation.

Worst case scenario, we give them the core and can no longer create those Gatekeepers anymore, which will be a huge blow for Caras' job of protecting the border against the burner worms.

It would be like having a shared bank account from the marriage, and then potentially promising a huge chunk of it for 'the sake of the country'. Hardly a good idea if we want to keep a good relationship with Caras.

[X]"I'll need to inform my husband so he can make a decision. I'm still learning and don't want to make a promise my husband can't keep." You'll certainly be intending to talk to him, trying to convince him he should do it, but you don't want to overreach yourself or put him in an awkward spot.
 
I'm convinced enough to change my vote and might change it again.

[X]"I would certainly hope my husband would be appropriately compensated for this service to all of the Freelands." Given what you saw with the Core trade, you suspect that handing over the Gatekeeper's design will be somehow costly to Caras, and anyway if it's that important surely the most powerful Gendarmerie in the Freelands can spare a little something, yes?
 
[X]"I would certainly hope my husband would be appropriately compensated for this service to all of the Freelands." Given what you saw with the Core trade, you suspect that handing over the Gatekeeper's design will be somehow costly to Caras, and anyway if it's that important surely the most powerful Gendarmerie in the Freelands can spare a little something, yes?

Feeling this the most right now.
 
[X]"I would certainly hope my husband would be appropriately compensated for this service to all of the Freelands." Given what you saw with the Core trade, you suspect that handing over the Gatekeeper's design will be somehow costly to Caras, and anyway if it's that important surely the most powerful Gendarmerie in the Freelands can spare a little something, yes
 
[X]"I would certainly hope my husband would be appropriately compensated for this service to all of the Freelands." Given what you saw with the Core trade, you suspect that handing over the Gatekeeper's design will be somehow costly to Caras, and anyway if it's that important surely the most powerful Gendarmerie in the Freelands can spare a little something, yes
 
[x]"Of course, absolutely!" You'll promise to do it. You're pretty sure Caras won't mind... too much?... giving the design away for free, and you really, really don't want all of the Freelands infected and burning. More cynically, the Council might forgive Caras if he asks for nothing. (Oroxthanp certainly suggested this angle is accurate)
 
[x]"Of course, absolutely!" You'll promise to do it. You're pretty sure Caras won't mind... too much?... giving the design away for free, and you really, really don't want all of the Freelands infected and burning. More cynically, the Council might forgive Caras if he asks for nothing.

It's possible that we're in the early stages of a genocidal land-grab. Carras needs his sides to remain reasonably secure; he can't fight the burners by himself. Also this raises value of further trades for anti-burner combat techniques; in other words it's a complementary product.

It also redirects them away from haranguing him to focus inwards, takes up design slots for them that we have to spend anyways, and makes it more credible when he says he's busy in the future.
 
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[X]"Of course, absolutely!" You'll promise to do it. You're pretty sure Caras won't mind... too much?... giving the design away for free, and you really, really don't want all of the Freelands infected and burning. More cynically, the Council might forgive Caras if he asks for nothing. (Oroxthanp certainly suggested this angle is accurate)

I don't care if they're mad at us for it, we need to protect our husband's position and not give something that valuable away for free just to smooth things over. They said it themselves, they need it. If they need it, they can adequately compensate our husband for it.
These are not Caras' peers and rivals. They are his superiors and rulers, the ones he pays tribute to and derives his authority from.

They are mad at Caras for not adequately reporting the threat, for ignoring protocol and for apparently mismanaging his territory.

We are not in a position to make demands.
 
[X]"I would certainly hope my husband would be appropriately compensated for this service to all of the Freelands." Given what you saw with the Core trade, you suspect that handing over the Gatekeeper's design will be somehow costly to Caras, and anyway if it's that important surely the most powerful Gendarmerie in the Freelands can spare a little something, yes?
 
[x] (write-in) "Oh yes, absolutely. But to make sure the infection doesn't spread further in, we'd need to be able to hire the humans to better ensure it doesn't get past the border. And that any improvements to this design be shared back with us, the better to ensure none can get through. Oh, and also... "

Not sure if that's just Compensation, but rather Negotiation. If their aim is to protect Soissons, then we want Concessions that will directly help them in their stated aims (and benefit us too). See how far you can go with this. Don't commit to the promise until you can wring out as many concessions where you could conceivably have this hanging over their heads due to it being related to defending the border against burner worms. We don't wanttto give them everything, only for them to lose the sense of urgency and leave the border lands to rot on the vine after all.
 
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[X]"Of course, absolutely!" You'll promise to do it. You're pretty sure Caras won't mind... too much?... giving the design away for free, and you really, really don't want all of the Freelands infected and burning. More cynically, the Council might forgive Caras if he asks for nothing. (Oroxthanp certainly suggested this angle is accurate)


These are not Caras' peers and rivals. They are his superiors and rulers, the ones he pays tribute to and derives his authority from.

They are mad at Caras for not adequately reporting the threat, for ignoring protocol and for apparently mismanaging his territory.

We are not in a position to make demands.

Keep in mind, they didn't give Caras his territory. He had to fight for it himself by being in the area when the old territory holder died. I don't think they can give away his territory either. Neither do we trade with them, or, as far as I can tell, depend on the Council in any material way. Also, look here.

they tend to feel more personal ownership over their accomplishments, I think?" It honestly hadn't really occurred to you before to consider how Caras and his Breeds might view... this, compared to what you grew up with. You have to stop again, unsure what it is you're even trying to say.

Delegate seems to take this pause as his turn to speak. "I'm not sure I rightly get what you're saying, but it sounds sort of like the difference between my loyalty to the Viscount of Dire Hollows as compared against our obeying the edicts of the Council?" You take that in, but you're not sure how well that comparison works. You're only dimly aware of the Council at all. "Only it goes a step down, so that humans are like... like..." Delegate seems to be struggling almost as much as you to come to grips with the concept. "... like tiny little homes within the larger home, willing to work with others if it doesn't cost them anything but still seeing the other tiny little homes as fundamentally competitors."

To me, this suggests that we are expected to treat Caras' interests as our own, but the Council's interests? We obey their edicts, that's it. Unless they make it an edict, we don't have to do anything they say, and if we give up something as valuable as a core for nothing, I get the strong feeling Caras won't ever trust us with anything of such importance again.
 
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Oh great. "Um, like Sabrina is my name, but Vieuxpont is the name I shared with maman, papa, Sophie and Simone before the marriage."

"Oh, I think I see. Well, my breed is Overlord? It's the only name I share with another, anyway."

Sabrina Overlord.

Has a nice ring to it.
You know, I kind of expected the Council to be pretty much the same fundamental blueprint as Caras, allowing for alterations for individuality and whatnot. But given the sheer diversity the council displays, not just in form but in size, I'm wondering if maybe "Overlord" is just one of many "command"-type Breeds that make up the Gendarmerie, or if Overlord might be a Breed developed exclusively by Caras's progenitor.
 
[X] "I would certainly hope my husband would be appropriately compensated for this service to all of the Freelands." Given what you saw with the Core trade, you suspect that handing over the Gatekeeper's design will be somehow costly to Caras, and anyway if it's that important surely the most powerful Gendarmerie in the Freelands can spare a little something, yes?

I understand some people feel the need to give them a gift to apologize to the council, but we are here to represent Caras, and as such need to push for his interests. I feel that agreeing to sell the design immediately will be a nice balance. They get to skip convincing or forcing Caras to part with a core (which can be like pulling teeth), we get to push for Caras to get something in return for his long days of design work.
 
[X] "I would certainly hope my husband would be appropriately compensated for this service to all of the Freelands." Given what you saw with the Core trade, you suspect that handing over the Gatekeeper's design will be somehow costly to Caras, and anyway if it's that important surely the most powerful Gendarmerie in the Freelands can spare a little something, yes?


I'm just not comfortable acting differently than Caras has with his treatment of cores. Sabrina's knowledge and understanding of cores is very limited. Caras treated blowing off the council for six months acceptable given the situation and he also treated core transfer as one of Sabrina's most important responsibilities he had entrusted her with.

I expect giving the core away is probably okay, but the council should also definitely have the resources to provide some token compensation for providing the solution to a nationwide inflation threat.
 
Same legal entity, so no postponing the decision.
The propriety rules said to not make demands, but compensation might be viewed differently. Either way, it's worth the attempt.

[x]"I would certainly hope my husband would be appropriately compensated for this service to all of the Freelands." Given what you saw with the Core trade, you suspect that handing over the Gatekeeper's design will be somehow costly to Caras, and anyway if it's that important surely the most powerful Gendarmerie in the Freelands can spare a little something, yes?
 
As a write in, could we request copies of any further refinements made using the detection core? Purely to serve the common interest by putting the best detectors on the front line, of course, thereby reducing the risks to inner provinces.

That kind of thought process is exactly what write-ins are for, yes. People have at times attached such things as sub-votes to the 'canon' votes, and while I haven't really said anything about that before, I'm generally fine with that as a way to consolidate votes in a clear way while still incorporating an idea that didn't necessarily occur to me to include.

I really ought to make an infopost about 'vote etiquette' so I can just have that sitting there to link to every time someone wants to know if walking slightly outside the metaphorical chalk lines is okay.

I think I'll try to get that done today, in fact.
 
[x]"I would certainly hope my husband would be appropriately compensated for this service to all of the Freelands." Given what you saw with the Core trade, you suspect that handing over the Gatekeeper's design will be somehow costly to Caras, and anyway if it's that important surely the most powerful Gendarmerie in the Freelands can spare a little something, yes?
 
'Vote Etiquette': Seek Forgiveness, Not Permission
This is a post for some basic guidelines on 'vote etiquette', mostly so I can just link it the next twenty times someone wants to know if it's okay for them to submit a write-in or whatever.

The summarized version is that you don't need to ask if it's okay. Generally, the worst outcome is I ignore the vote or maybe, if it gets popular and I have some reason to shoot it down, I say 'sorry, that vote isn't winning: please vote for other things'. I'm not going to get mad over someone voting 'inappropriately'. (Unless it's in the sense of violating site rules, I guess, but that's a different issue)

But specifics are typically more useful than vague summaries, so have a list of such specifics:

-Write-ins are always okay to submit. Even if I don't list 'write-in' as an option, even if I explicitly discourage write-ins in the post itself, you may submit a write-in. I regularly overlook possible ideas that do in fact make sense, and will gladly accept such write-ins even if I just said 'please don't do write-ins': you should take such a request as 'I'm being more stringent on accepting write-ins', not as 'I'm completely refusing to accept write-ins'.

-If you have a specific idea that isn't 'transformative' (That is, it's mostly 'do a canon vote, but do something extra or do a specific part differently from what the canon vote says'), you can feel free to submit it as a sub-vote attached to a 'canon' vote option. If the idea is 'free' or 'cheap', I often fold such ideas into the winning vote even if few people actually explicitly voted for such a sub-vote. I sometimes do this even if the sub-vote's main vote wasn't the winner at all!

-Sometimes, I create a post where it really ought to be possible for multiple votes to win together, but I still present it as 'vote for just one thing'. It's perfectly fine to point out that the 'canon' votes don't seem mutually exclusive, and in fact is fine to vote for multiple 'canon' vote options at once: again, generally the worst that happens is I ignore part of your vote, and more often I'll go 'yeah, I didn't think that through adequately, I'm adjusting this vote opportunity accordingly'.

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To the extent I do discourage things, the things you might wish to avoid are the following:

-Write-ins that try to put words into Sabrina's mouth might not work out the way you want if they do win. I'm writing Sabrina as a character, not a vote-bot, and so if I feel the words you put down aren't in-character for her, I'll do my best to translate your intentions into a manner of speech fitting to Sabrina. Inevitably, this creates the risk I might misunderstand what was meant to be the point.

-The larger, more complex, and more specific your write-in gets, the more likely it is to be ignored, whether in the literal sense of 'I just don't count it as part of the vote at all' or in the sense of 'I let it win, but the update only partially follows the write-in'. Complex and specific write-ins are often rooted in fairly specific assumptions about what is happening and what will be happening, and I'm always more inclined to simply discard parts of such a plan rather than having Sabrina robotically walk right into screwing herself over because that's what the winning vote would produce if held to in context. Again: Sabrina is a character, not a vote-bot.

-Write-ins that are substantially at odds with how Sabrina's character has developed are at the highest risk of being explicitly shot down. If you think you have a clever idea for how to optimize the situation in front of her, consider asking yourself: can you imagine Sabrina actually wanting to implement your idea?

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Lastly, have some QM Philosophy (Well, life philosophy in practice) from me to try to contextualize the above and also to possibly preemptively address things I haven't explicitly thought of.

On paper, the goal of mechanisms like public voting systems is to give 'the people' a 'voice': input on how things are run, what matters, what can be put off, how things ought to be done, and so on. A 'bottom-up' input system, as opposed to a 'top-down' input system where a small number of people dictate things to everyone else.

In practice, most executions of the concept end up being some mixture of that 'top-down' input and insanity via bureaucratic literalness: the vote options are defined by 'the top', voting is restricted to what was defined as a valid voting option by 'the top', and there's no capacity to incorporate context or 'if-then' type statements. ("If we do X, I also want us to do Y. If we do not do X, I absolutely do not want to do Y") The People have 'choice', but only the choices The Top thought to offer them, and the choices are functionally something closer to abstract ideological comparisons ("I want to vote 'green'.") than they are to any kind of practical choice, because context isn't really a part of the vote. ("Okay, so my 'green' vote will result in... something. I'm not entirely clear what. I'd like more nuclear power plants, personally, but I'm not sure my 'green' vote will actually push the scale more toward nuclear power plants. It might lead to existing ones being shut down...")

And I realize the prior sounds like I'm talking about real-life politics, but while it absolutely applies to that context, I'm actually talking about common QM habits right now!

Where for me Quests have always seemed like an opportunity to escape a lot of that insanity: they're comparatively small-scale, votes are offered at specific points on specific topics in a known context, and there's a singular individual (Or occasionally small team) running the Quest who is acting as a 'filter' between the voting input and the Quest output to intelligently make sure a vote isn't accepted and robotically executed where literally no one wants the result, because they should have the context and be able to tell if severe mismatches are occurring between 'what they intend to be known to be going on' and 'what their voters actually think is going on'. Among other awful consequences the Quest format is able to avoid. (But individual Quests have at times quite infamously rammed right into)

So my approach to QMing is driven pretty heavily by this concept of 'listening to the will of the voters, but in a way that listens to what they want, not what I allowed them to say'.

With a heavy dose of telling a story thrown in there, but my approach to storytelling is a whole other concept I never seem to get across to people, and is more lightly relevant to this 'vote etiquette' post.
 
As a write in, could we request copies of any further refinements made using the detection core? Purely to serve the common interest by putting the best detectors on the front line, of course, thereby reducing the risks to inner provinces.
That kind of thought process is exactly what write-ins are for, yes. People have at times attached such things as sub-votes to the 'canon' votes, and while I haven't really said anything about that before, I'm generally fine with that as a way to consolidate votes in a clear way while still incorporating an idea that didn't necessarily occur to me to include.
With that in mind, this seems like a perfect compromise- we give them the core and they're obligated to give something "improved" back, with possible future dividends. Caras might not be happy with more council meddling in his domain, but that seems inevitable at this point.
 
So far the only thing that's tripped up the detector we've got now is someone with a controlled early stage infection, and it still returned a tentative positive. If we're trading for this, fireproofing is both something we don't currently have and something clearly useful for the function the Council wants us performing.
 
So far the only thing that's tripped up the detector we've got now is someone with a controlled early stage infection, and it still returned a tentative positive. If we're trading for this, fireproofing is both something we don't currently have and something clearly useful for the function the Council wants us performing.
If they had it they would not respond so harshly to burner worms.
I bet Caras sadly is closest to finding such a thing if it is possible.
 
If they had it they would not respond so harshly to burner worms.
I bet Caras sadly is closest to finding such a thing if it is possible.
???

"Ever forgetting others are not you, Zyzix deary. Just because you and yours are proof against fire..."

"It's not that important," Zyzixion repeats. "Border problem. Border Lords can adapt."
we know one of the council is fire proof. It's right there in the update.
 
I am not interested in appending a sub-vote on the current "compensation" option at the moment as I feel that will split the vote, and I want to see how open the Council is to general compensation and what they might offer before suggesting any specific compensation of our own.
 
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