METRO: Exodus - "Nuclear Winter makes you wish for the Caspian Desert"

[Ford Prefect]

Deep Silver wanted to make more money at the cost of forcing fans to wait an entire year but my making it a timely exclusive.

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They're not really forcing fans to wait, dude. It's that you, specifically, don't want to buy it on the Epic Games Store so you feel as though you are being forced to wait, but you aren't being made to do anything. Most of your complaints aren't even relevant to your purchase of Metro Exodus. You keep mentioning user reviews, but it's clear that you weren't intending to use them to gauge whether you should purchase the game. What does Steam's advertising have to do with this? I just can't understand why this would bother you.

What I can understand is being put off by the price. The Epic Games Store does have regional pricing, but it's only present in 230 countries and you might be outside that list. But talking about how much better Steam is as a platform is bizarre. It won't have any effect on the game itself.

 

[Hykal94]

They're not really forcing fans to wait, dude. It's that you, specifically, don't want to buy it on the Epic Games Store so you feel as though you are being forced to wait, but you aren't being made to do anything. Most of your complaints aren't even relevant to your purchase of Metro Exodus. You keep mentioning user reviews, but it's clear that you weren't intending to use them to gauge whether you should purchase the game. What does Steam's advertising have to do with this? I just can't understand why this would bother you.

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"You can buy it now for more than twice the price OR wait an entire year so you can buy it at 50 dollars in your currency."

The idea is that I either get more money or wait. Yes, that is forcing me to wait. How the fuck is this my fault? Excuse me Ford but I'm not a rich westerner like you who can buy AAA games all the damn time. Unlike you, I have too pool my money to buy my yearly AAA game. This is basically blaming poor people that refused to buy Exodus at an increased price.

It's charging more and punishing me for not living in those 230 countries until they bring said region pricing to my country (at least for months). I've also brought up MUTLIPLE TIMES that it was advertised falsely for a year and pulled out at the last moment. I brought up that Epic does not have the amenities that Steam has (workshop, friend list, forums, etc) as reasons why Epic is an inferior platform.

This is you ignoring all my points and arguing in bad faith. It's draining. Is Exodus gonna be a great game? I think so. But let's not pretend this is big corporate being massive dicks to the its loyal player base.

 

[Ford Prefect]

How the fuck is this my fault?

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I didn't say it was, and I have no idea why you think I did. Seriously dude, you are losing all sense of perspective.

 

[Hykal94]

It's that you, specifically, don't want to buy it on the Epic Games Store so you feel as though you are being forced to wait, but you aren't being made to do anything.

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I didn't say it was, and I have no idea why you think I did. Seriously dude, you are losing all sense of perspective.

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I am being made to wait because I am not in the financial position to pay more twice the amount despite the fact I was 100% prepared to buy it either on launch or post launch. You think I don't see you NOT engaging with my points? Dismissing them entirely because you have nothing to retort? Saying I'm losing my sense of perspective despite going in great detail why I'm upset?

Ford, if you cannot engage with my posts than I have nothing to say to you.

 

[Ford Prefect]

I am being made to wait because I am not in the financial position to pay more twice the amount despite the fact I was 100% prepared to buy it either on launch or post launch. You think I don't see you NOT engaging with my points? Dismissing them entirely because you have nothing to retort? Saying I'm losing my sense of perspective despite going in great detail why I'm upset?

Ford, if you cannot engage with my posts than I have nothing to say to you.

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Hykal, just because you don't like what I have to say doesn't mean I'm not engaging with your posts ...

 

[DayDreamer]

"You can buy it now for more than twice the price OR wait an entire year so you can buy it at 50 dollars in your currency."

The idea is that I either get more money or wait. Yes, that is forcing me to wait. How the fuck is this my fault? Excuse me Ford but I'm not a rich westerner like you who can buy AAA games all the damn time. Unlike you, I have too pool my money to buy my yearly AAA game. This is basically blaming poor people that refused to buy Exodus at an increased price.

It's charging more and punishing me for not living in those 230 countries until they bring said region pricing to my country (at least for months). I've also brought up MUTLIPLE TIMES that it was advertised falsely for a year and pulled out at the last moment. I brought up that Epic does not have the amenities that Steam has (workshop, friend list, forums, etc) as reasons why Epic is an inferior platform.

This is you ignoring all my points and arguing in bad faith. It's draining. Is Exodus gonna be a great game? I think so. But let's not pretend this is big corporate being massive dicks to the its loyal player base.

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Here's the thing: you've brought up all of these other points about how it's a worse service, but that seems to have been in bad faith, because the only point it looks like you actually care about is that it's more expensive for you to buy this game because Epic, unlike Steam, doesn't force developers to price their games cheaper in other regions without telling them this is happening.

Which is legitimate—having a product get more expensive sucks, but the fact that this happens in the first place is a complaint that a number of developers have against Steam, so it's not cut and dry. You don't seem willing to actually discuss or engage this, or why there might be legitimate motives on the part of the publishers or devs for wanting off Steam, making it really hard to discuss this with you.

 

[prometheus110]

Also, you know, Epic have expanded regional pricing and are giving automatic refunds.

More Regional Pricing Options Added

 

[prometheus110]

I'd rather back a convenient monopoly than shit competition for its own sake. If you can't do it as good and convenient as steam, don't insult me by expecting me to give you the time of day. Demanding I drink lakewater you mixed some sugar into isn't the same as offering me a coke, is roughly how I see Epics attempt to "compete" with Steam.

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Leaving aside the fact Steam was shithouse for a good half decade and had to be sued repeatedly before it would meet even basic standards internationally, you're blowing everything out of proportion and seem to have no grasp of what is reasonable or not.

In the context of Metro: Exodus, Steam offers nothing of value that Epic doesn't also.

Edit: sorry for the double post but I didn't realise I had been quoted until after my last post.

 

[MaHaL]

I am being made to wait because I am not in the financial position to pay more twice the amount despite the fact I was 100% prepared to buy it either on launch or post launch.

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Except that isn't something the devs or publisher are responsible for. They want to provide the game at a set price and if Steam wants to change that price then they won't sell it through Steam, the fact that your financial situation means you can only afford it at the Steam price isn't something you can blame on the devs or publishers it's just an unfortunate fact of circumstance.

And on the subject of Steam's other services being superior, so what? It takes less than 2 minutes to add it to your steam library as a non-steam game and at worst all that means is that you don't get the overlay which is kinda terrible anyway, and your achievements aren't tracked on Steam which big whoop they're nothing but e-peen enlargement.

 

[Kaiya]

Leaving aside the fact Steam was shithouse for a good half decade and had to be sued repeatedly before it would meet even basic standards internationally, you're blowing everything out of proportion and seem to have no grasp of what is reasonable or not.

In the context of Metro: Exodus, Steam offers nothing of value that Epic doesn't also.

Edit: sorry for the double post but I didn't realise I had been quoted until after my last post.

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Steam has an offline mode, the most important thing, and I don't care about what Steam was in the past. I care what Epic is now. And Epic is worse than Steam in every category, yet expects me to take it seriously as a competitor to Steam, and to diminish my overall experience by using that. I find that pretty insulting. If it wants to be used, it should be good, and not simply not as bad as it usually is for this one exclusive it got. I'm not installing inferior shit because Deep Silver thinks we should all use a worse platform so they can avoid Steam's tax. And, well, too fucking bad. Pay the tax, or tie yourself to a better platform. But don't expect people to use a crappy thing because you aren't being paid as much as you could be if Steam was less of a dick.

 

[DayDreamer]

Steak has an offline mode, the most important thing, and I don't care about what Steam was in the past. I care what Epic is now. And Epic is worse than Steam in every category, yet expects me to take it seriously as a competitor to Steam, and to diminish my overall experience by using that. I find that pretty insulting. If it wants to be used, it should be good, and not simply not as bad as it usually is for this one exclusive it got. I'm not installing inferior shit because Deep Silver thinks we should all use a worse platform so they can avoid Steam's tax. And, well, too fucking bad. Pay the tax, or tie yourself to a better platform. But don't expect people to use a crappy thing because you aren't being paid as much as you could be if Steam was less of a dick.

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Liberals: monopolies need to be broken up and destroyed.
Also liberals: if combatting a monopoly inconveniences me at all it is unacceptable.

 

[Kaiya]

Liberals: monopolies need to be broken up and destroyed.
Also liberals: if combatting a monopoly inconveniences me at all it is unacceptable.

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I have no strong feelings about monopolies in general, and do not support government intervention in the issue of Steam being a dick. You seem to be confusing my politics with other people you have argued with, and trying to make it seem like I am somehow a hypocrite because I don't agree with everyone who votes left wing on every issue.

 

[Sarissa]

Feeling extremely smug that I intend to just buy it on console and don't have to care about any of this.

 

[Kaiya]

Feeling extremely smug that I intend to just buy it on console and don't have to care about any of this.

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well I mean I'm also getting it on console, but I can still argue against Epic

 

[Hykal94]

Hykal, just because you don't like what I have to say doesn't mean I'm not engaging with your posts ...

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You've done nothing but dismiss my posts. Either say something worthwhile or don't engage with me at all.

Which is legitimate—having a product get more expensive sucks, but the fact that this happens in the first place is a complaint that a number of developers have against Steam, so it's not cut and dry. You don't seem willing to actually discuss or engage this, or why there might be legitimate motives on the part of the publishers or devs for wanting off Steam, making it really hard to discuss this with you.

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Real talk, why should I care? The business should serve the customer, not the other way around.

If you think I give a crap what big corporations do to leach their customers you've got another thing coming.

Except that isn't something the devs or publisher are responsible for.

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Except you refuse to acknowledge the last minute change exclusive deal, yeah? No one brings that up apparently.

And on the subject of Steam's other services being superior, so what?

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"Why don't you want to use an inferior launcher Hykal? You're so unreasonable!"

 

[DayDreamer]

Real talk, why should I care? The business should serve the customer, not the other way around.

If you think I give a crap what big corporations do to leach their customers you've got another thing coming.

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Because videogame development at most studios is a hellhole that pays people terribly (based on their experience and skillset) and expects absurd hours, fueled primarily by the passion and goodwill of the employees who love making games, and that being able to pay them more by cutting a bit out of the middleman (who charges a rediculously high fee for the services they actually provide) can help to make it slightly more ethical?

Like, I'm assuming that you care about this. If your stance is literally that you support whatever company gives you the cheapest product, all else being equal, with no regard for how the creators are being exploited, then this isn't going to be meaningful for you. But, like, if your attitude is "how dare you ask for more of a share of the money for the game you made so that you can earn closer to a reasonable wage" I'm not going to be terribly sympathetic to your complaint about not being able to buy the game because you can't afford it.

 

[Hykal94]

Because videogame development at most studios is a hellhole that pays people terribly (based on their experience and skillset) and expects absurd hours, fueled primarily by the passion and goodwill of the employees who love making games, and that being able to pay them more by cutting a bit out of the middleman (who charges a rediculously high fee for the services they actually provide) can help to make it slightly more ethical?

Like, I'm assuming that you care about this. If your stance is literally that you support whatever company gives you the cheapest product, all else being equal, with no regard for how the creators are being exploited, then this isn't going to be meaningful for you. But, like, if your attitude is "how dare you ask for more of a share of the money for the game you made so that you can earn closer to a reasonable wage" I'm not going to be terribly sympathetic to your complaint about not being able to buy the game because you can't afford it.

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Except that's not the problem, eh? I've bought Rimworld both on Steam and off Ludeon. I've bought those fancy DLC that give you artwork and soundtracks. I even bought that Kraken banner for BB.

This isn't "but the developers!" because this wasn't the developers' choice. 4A had no saying in the matter if you've been keeping up with the news. Here's the thing, had Exodus been on Steam I would buy it. But it isn't, so 4A doesn't get my money. It's a bribe to hold games hostage for a year, don't moralise me with this when it was only the publishers choice. Even the author of Metro is facepalming at all this bad press.

I can only support developers so much because guess what? Not everyone is rich enough to buy every AAA game that comes out.

 

[Kaiya]

Because videogame development at most studios is a hellhole that pays people terribly (based on their experience and skillset) and expects absurd hours, fueled primarily by the passion and goodwill of the employees who love making games, and that being able to pay them more by cutting a bit out of the middleman (who charges a rediculously high fee for the services they actually provide) can help to make it slightly more ethical?

Like, I'm assuming that you care about this. If your stance is literally that you support whatever company gives you the cheapest product, all else being equal, with no regard for how the creators are being exploited, then this isn't going to be meaningful for you. But, like, if your attitude is "how dare you ask for more of a share of the money for the game you made so that you can earn closer to a reasonable wage" I'm not going to be terribly sympathetic to your complaint about not being able to buy the game because you can't afford it.

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I don't believe, for a single second, that the Developer's will see a single cent more for this, for one thing. This is "make shareholders happy" move. Not "Let's give Devs a payrise we couldn't otherwise afford" (PS they can totally afford it then, and won't pay them more even now)

 

[Hykal94]

Me: I want to support 4A games by buying this product. I am willing to pay 50 dollars for Exodus.

DeepSilver: Sorry but we don't accept 50 dollars in your currency, how about more than twice the amount in US Dollars?

Me: I am not in the financial position to do so.

DeepSilver: WHY ARE YOU SO STINGY?! HOW DARE YOU NOT HAVE MONEY?! DO YOU HATE DEVELOPERS?!

 

[DayDreamer]

Except that's not the problem, eh? I've bought Rimworld both on Steam and off Ludeon. I've bought those fancy DLC that give you artwork and soundtracks. I even bought that Kraken banner for BB.

This isn't "but the developers!" because this wasn't the developers' choice. 4A had no saying in the matter if you've been keeping up with the news. Here's the thing, had Exodus been on Steam I would buy it. But it isn't, so 4A doesn't get my money. It's a bribe to hold games hostage for a year, don't moralise me with this when it was only the publishers choice. Even the author of Metro is facepalming at all this bad press.

I can only support developers so much because guess what? Not everyone is rich enough to buy every AAA game that comes out.

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My assumption is that Epic gave 4A a nice stack of cash for the exclusivity that 4A assumed was going to make up the difference in lost sales, and that the devs have been correspondingly compensated—as I said earlier, if the devs are just losing money out of this it is scrumy. But one of the things that publishers do, and the reason that devs approach them, is to manage release strategies to maximize their earnings. 4A definitely thinks that this strategy will do so, and I have no idea if they're right or not.

And your response about how you're bought Rimworld from multiple sources... I'm not sure what your point is here. Yes, you can in essence donate more money to a given dev? This is presumably uncommon enough that devs are unwilling to price their games under the assumption of repeat purchases?

 

[Cosar]

Me: I want to support 4A games by buying this product. I am willing to pay 50 dollars for Exodus.

DeepSilver: Sorry but we don't accept 50 dollars in your currency, how about more than twice the amount in US Dollars?

Me: I am not in the financial position to do so.

DeepSilver: WHY ARE YOU SO STINGY?! HOW DARE YOU NOT HAVE MONEY?! DO YOU HATE DEVELOPERS?!

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Did they actually say this?

 

[Hykal94]

Did they actually say this?

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It's called hyperbole, Cosar. Deep Silver is actually being very willing to take the heat of the recent exclusive move.

But one of the things that publishers do, and the reason that devs approach them, is to manage release strategies to maximize their earnings. 4A definitely thinks that this strategy will do so, and I have no idea if they're right or not.

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And I'm afraid they won't. Exodus went from something everyone wanted to everyone saying "yeah Imma pirate this." This is gamers being whiny gamers yes, but under all that bitching, there is real reason for anger.

I could be wrong of course. Exodus might do amazingly well, especially on console. But I'm not betting on it.

 

[Cosar]

It's called hyperbole, Cosar. Deep Silver is actually being very willing to take the heat of the recent exclusive move.

And I'm afraid they won't. Exodus went from something everyone wanted to everyone saying "yeah Imma pirate this." This is gamers being whiny gamers yes, but under all that bitching, there is real reason for anger.

I could be wrong of course. Exodus might do amazingly well, especially on console. But I'm not betting on it.

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Hyperbole isn't making stuff up, it's exaggerating it.

Also, the epic store seems to be rolling additional options regarding currencies and country specific pricing, so it seems it less that they only want to sell at US prices and more that setting up a storefront that can work in currencies and countries is somewhat difficult.

There's always a real reason for anger. What matters if is if that reason is really justified, and the gaming public in general has a very good and well document track record of having absolutely abysmal reasons. So color me skeptical that this time they've manage to actually ferret out a good one. Especially if the immediate reaction to "they're not on steam" is "well I guess I should just pirate it".

 

[Hykal94]

Also, the epic store seems to be rolling additional options regarding currencies and country specific pricing, so it seems it less that they only want to sell at US prices and more that setting up a storefront that can work in currencies and countries is somewhat difficult.

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Cool, I can't wait for 6 months for my currency to get converted!

There's always a real reason for anger. What matters if is if that reason is really justified, and the gaming public in general has a very good and well document track record of having absolutely abysmal reasons. So color me skeptical that this time they've manage to actually ferret out a good one.

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Amazing how people keep missing the fact Deep Silver pulled Exodus out of Steam at the last minute. Man, if only that was a valid reason for the anger. But I guess all Metro fans are just rage monsters.

 

[Cosar]

Cool, I can't wait for 6 months for my currency to get converted!



Amazing how people keep missing the fact Deep Silver pulled Exodus out of Steam at the last minute. Man, if only that was a valid reason for the anger. But I guess all Metro fans are just rage monsters.

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Your most consistent complaint regarding exodus has been the pricing, and you specifically when on regarding how terrible it was that they were going to be forcing you to either not get the game or pay 50 US dollars for it. This is showing that this is not the case: they're working on increasing options for currency and have some system in place at this point for country specific prices. It's not just that they're working on addressing one of your biggest complaints, but they've already taken several concrete steps to do so. So you're response is really doing a good job at telling me exactly how highly I should think of the gamers taking a stand.

As for ignoring the steam pullout, no, I'm not. Like I said before: there's always a reason why people get angry. But having a reason doesn't automatically make it justified, and I can't really say "they removed the game from one platform while agreeing to honor all preorders made before a future date" seems to be a great reason to be angry. Like, this is worse than the console exclusive fights during the console wars, and for those most had the pretty legitimate complaint that if it wasn't coming out on a console they owned then they could never play it. But here it's not being removed from PC, just steam(and only for a time? not entirely clear if it's a forever exclusive or a timed one). Being annoyed? That seems fine and I'd have no issues. But this isn't a group being annoyed. You've made that plenty clear.