Marvel Phase 4
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I thought Spider-Man didn't take off until he was integrated into the MCU? The Sam Raimi and Marc Webb films didn't pull in as much money or critical acclaim as the Tom Holland headliners. The Spider-Verse animated trilogy-to-be is something of an aberration for Sony in its success.
The first two Sam Raimi films are very well regarded. And in a direct comparison they're not far from Tom Holland's movies in terms of box office, even without accounting for inflation.
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I wonder what Shang-Chi did differently to not get review bombed, because it seems like it didn't?
Shanejayell
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Technically not 'Marvel' but Kraven the Hunter trailer is out. Looks not bad actually.
View: https://youtu.be/Vv1nfDIJ9kU
View: https://youtu.be/Vv1nfDIJ9kU
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We need a Sony-verse thread. Venom 3 and Madame Web are supposed to be coming out later, after all.
Shanejayell
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Or post it in a general 'Spider-verse' thread.
Hykal94
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So I couldn't find a Phase 5 thread so here's the news:
Article: A New York jury found Marvel actor Jonathan Majors guilty of reckless assault in the third degree and guilty of harassment.
The verdict was reached by a six-person jury after roughly over four hours of deliberation spread across three days. Majors, wearing a gray suit and black dress shirt and tie, stood with his attorneys, as the verdict was read, with family members and his girlfriend, Meagan Good, behind him. Sentencing is set for Feb. 6. The charges, a misdemeanor and a violation, carry a sentence of up to one year in prison.
I'm comfortable with Kang being shelved. The Loki series put a nice pin on that anyway, would almost be a shame for Kang to show up again.
Now... get rolling on Dr. Doom. We need to get this going and we need to do it now. Like End Credits of Deadpool now.
It would be fairly easy to sub in Doom for Kang. Doom takes notice of all the multiverse chicanery that's going on and begins making preparations for the inevitable cluster that happens because of it.
Now... get rolling on Dr. Doom. We need to get this going and we need to do it now. Like End Credits of Deadpool now.
It would be fairly easy to sub in Doom for Kang. Doom takes notice of all the multiverse chicanery that's going on and begins making preparations for the inevitable cluster that happens because of it.
Hykal94
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I think it's putting the cart before the horse having Doom before having, oh I dunno, THE FANTASTIC FOUR.
Like the thing with Kang is he can look like anything. Just recast the damn actor. Marvel did it with Rhodey, they can definitely do it with Kang.
Like the thing with Kang is he can look like anything. Just recast the damn actor. Marvel did it with Rhodey, they can definitely do it with Kang.
Fantastic Four is on the way. I don't think it's outlandish to introduce Doom prior to the Fantastic Four. Might even be a good thing, give some more buildup to them.
That's true too. Whatever Kang variant may show up can just be a different actor. Prior to the end of Loki S2 I probably would have been more on board with that. Given that Loki really wrapped Kang up in a nice bow, while leaving the opportunity for more Kang stuff, i'm more on the side of moving on from Kang entirely.
In all reality, Marvel did a terrible job setting up Kang anyway. There's really not all that much invested into him, and there's plenty of time prior to Avengers 4 and 5 to build up a new Big Bad. Kang's spot in the story if we drop him was getting the ball rolling on the multiverse stuff and being the catalyst for it happening, but he doesn't have to be the end of it.
My fan cast... although I know he expressed interest in Professor X, I would be very down for Giancarlo Esposito for Dr. Doom. I think he has the right gravitas for it.
Going really off the rails with story ideas, given how we have seen the MCU multiverse work, it might be interesting to go with Doom/F4 for the remainder of the multiverse stuff... hear me out here, 616 DOES have Dr. Doom without the F4. When we get to the F4, they're already involved with multiverse things and end up in 616 specifically because they know how dangerous Doom is and they've to come to help 616 deal with him.
Both the Kang's and Reed were using Time Platforms to get around... a Doom technology. Could it be that Doom has been pulling the strings of Kang all along?
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Majors's performances as Kang were actually very good and were easily the main highlight of the otherwise terrible Quantumania.
Ultimately the problem the MCU has isn't really with the characters or the actors it's just that the movies and shows aren't individually very good or creative and so they've lost that sort of sense of novelty/excitement that they used to have. So recasting Kang could work, as could cutting the storyline entirely and just running with Doom. Or they could do what they initially did and just have a bunch of solid standalone movies.
What they really need is a movie that is almost unambiguously great and exicting. Like a Thor: Ragnarok or a Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 1. Something that that feels genuinely new and interesting (which also means not just trying to copy those two movies I just mentioned). I'm not sure how they'd do that, but they can't just keep putting out movies that are, like, fine. Especially if there's just a straight-up dud every now and then.
Ultimately the problem the MCU has isn't really with the characters or the actors it's just that the movies and shows aren't individually very good or creative and so they've lost that sort of sense of novelty/excitement that they used to have. So recasting Kang could work, as could cutting the storyline entirely and just running with Doom. Or they could do what they initially did and just have a bunch of solid standalone movies.
What they really need is a movie that is almost unambiguously great and exicting. Like a Thor: Ragnarok or a Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 1. Something that that feels genuinely new and interesting (which also means not just trying to copy those two movies I just mentioned). I'm not sure how they'd do that, but they can't just keep putting out movies that are, like, fine. Especially if there's just a straight-up dud every now and then.
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God no, I don't want another Thor Ragnarok. I want the different films to feel different (that is if I want to watch Guardians I'm going to watch a Guardians movie, I don't want to watch a Guardians movie when I'm seeing a Thor movie etc), and I definitely don't want another movie that is constantly sabotaging it's own emotional impact through "jokes".
Ragnarok was without a doubt my least favorite Thor movie, because it lost it's identity and it lost the ability to shut up and let it's emotional moments stand for themselves.
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I mean I literally said they should not try to do Thor Ragnarok again in the post you quoted, especially since they already did and it was a fucking disaster. My point, and admittedly I should have been more clear about this because I did anticipate this response, is that those movies at the time they came out were hugely successful because their approach to the superhero genre felt novel and interesting to general audiences. If the MCU wants to return to that success, it needs to find something novel and interesting again. Which means, I repeat, not doing Thor Ragnarok again.
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I give you that Guardians was novel, but I just can't see the same for Ragnarok. It was, in my mind at least, basically just a Guardians movie in everything but the cast.
Sure, it was super successful, but personally, I'd think the reason for that was because it came out during a time of very good Marvel movies, had Thor and Loki working together/against one another for the majority of the time, and was close to the finale of the saga.
I feel the things that's holding back the newer movies the most are that on the hand hand, a lot of the movies and especially The Marvels, appear to not be stand alone enough. No one wants to spend the necessary money for a movie ticket only to feel lost because they haven't watched 20+ hours of other content before hand*. On the other hand, the new movies aren't connected enough. In the earlier phases, most movies both felt stand-alone, in that you could pick any one of them as your first, but also build toward something greater, either the first Avengers movie or toward the endgame.
Now the movies are, or at least appear, connected to a larger degree and thus require a larger time investment, but are also more or less directionless. Things, even possibly important things, happen, but there's no goal each movie is working towards. We are now in the middle of the second post-Endgame phase and I couldn't tell you what the "Endgame" of this phase or set of phases is supposed to be.
I've enjoyed all movies post Endgame and most of the Disney+ series, but I don't have the feeling that I'm missing things if I'm not watching them as soon as possible. So, instead of definitely going to the cinema for each movie and watching each episode when it comes out, I'm now fine with catching it whenever I feel like on Disney+.
*Though I do feel that "appear" is a very important word here. Before the Marvels came out it was mostly seen as a given that you absolutely had to have at least watched WandaVision and Ms.Marvel beforehand. But in the actual movie I felt that while you would have gotten a bit more out of it if you had watched them beforehand, the movie was absolutely able to stand on it's own.
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People know the endgame is multiverse something which will allow at least the X-Men to be brought in, but until the Avengers movie(s) release, it is unclear for viewers/fans what they should pay attention to, outside of Loki, that will pay off in these movies and they don't feel like watching things if they often are just their own things with no relation to the wider myth arc, especially when some of which are duds (though there is of course people calling stuff bad simply because they were not the target demographics, such as Ms. Marvel and She-Hulk).
As someone who largely enjoyed Phases 4/5, I feel like the overall sentiment is closer to that one TikTok I cannot find right now, but showing a guy labelled "Marvel fans" reacting to each MCU entry with "WE ARE SO BACK" or "IT'S SO OVER", mostly alternating between the two for comedic effect.
As someone who largely enjoyed Phases 4/5, I feel like the overall sentiment is closer to that one TikTok I cannot find right now, but showing a guy labelled "Marvel fans" reacting to each MCU entry with "WE ARE SO BACK" or "IT'S SO OVER", mostly alternating between the two for comedic effect.
Hykal94
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It absolutely did not help that there's so many shows of varying quality. Wandavision had the most pages on SV and the later threads, well, I don't think most of them hit double digits. That's how dire it is.
One of those "good on paper" ideas, less so in execution. Too many side stories, which of course, is peak comic book writing.
One of those "good on paper" ideas, less so in execution. Too many side stories, which of course, is peak comic book writing.
This I think is the true issue with the MCU now. Phases 1-3 felt connected. Everything mattered.
4-5... don't really have that same feeling. Most of it has felt like just... things. Happening. Sometimes there's sort of something that related to something else. There's a couple of meta-story type things I guess? It just hasn't brought that excitement of "WHAT NEXT?!" that it used to.
Which is also part of the problem. For several reasons.
People DO still seem to generally feel that everything is connected and you need to watch everything. I can understand how that can be an issue to some if things that may be important to the overall story are made for a different, specific demographic. I understand because that's me. I managed to get through Ms. Marvel and She-Hulk.
She-Hulk was truly terrible. Just, abysmal. Ms. Marvel I can't say was bad, I just wasn't interested in it and couldn't wait for it to end. It was well made and everything, it just didn't appeal to me. That's ok... but it also just seems like a poor business decision on Marvel's part. "Our core demographic are white males aged 18-40... it's obvious what we need is a show about a teenage muslim girl!" It's totally ok to make a show about that, but also they really shouldn't be shocked when it doesn't do well.
She-Hulk was actually offensive, given that the show seemed to go out it's way to actually mock the general core demographic. I watched every episode waiting for the "Hey, you. White, pushing-40 male. Fuck you." moment. Too often, it didn't disappoint. It is totally possible to do a production that lifts up a group while not being actively antagonistic towards another. Marvel has done it already. Black Panther was wonderful, without ever getting the feeling of "Hey, white people. Fuck you." I want more of THAT.
BUT... sorry for the She-Hulk soap box complaints... creating duds actively harms the brand. They tried some stuff, that's ok, but it's pretty clear... it's not working. Ms. Marvel, flop. She-Hulk, flop. The Marvels, flop. It's pretty clear the fans are saying "We don't like this". Even if it's for the wrong reasons, it is what it is.
I scoff at "No, it can't be THAT, it's just superhero fatigue!" That's bullshit. I'm fatigued of superhero stuff I don't care about it. I'm super amped for Deadpool, Fantastic 4, Agatha, Sam!Cap, Blade, Daredevil, X-Men, Punisher, more Spiderman, more Thor, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, Ghost Rider, Runaways, Alpha Flight, etc. I'm dying to see alot of these things, Marvel just... isn't interested in giving them to me. Hell i'm even looking forward to Echo, although not so much because of Echo but because other stuff that will be in it, but even still Echo is... fine. I find it odd the fans have been like "Can we get Daredevil?", and Marvel is like "Yes... but only if you watch other shows you don't actually want to watch."
It's more practical and plausible to recast the role of Kang given the nature of the character. With such a significant number of variants of Kang, they could even put a woman in the role and it wouldn't be implausible. Loki season 1 in a way opened this door what with a variant of Loki that was a woman, and another variant that was an aligator.
Given the connections Kang has with the TVA, it's not impossible or implausible that another character could be revealed as a Kang variant either.
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They keep sliding this back so often that by this point "release date" sounds more like a running joke than something that'll actually happen.
‘Kraven the Hunter,’ ‘Karate Kid’ Pushed Back by Sony
The studio made some late Friday afternoon changes to its calendar.
www.hollywoodreporter.com