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Marvel Phase 4

Kraven thus far is the only one where I was going 'Okay this has potential' but the fact Kraven does not have the accent is throwing me off hard and wrapping it right back to being shit for me.
 
I think you could hypothetically make a good Kraven movie but this looks super tame compared to the Spiderman 2 version of the character, so Sony Pictures have been shown up by Sony Games yet again...
 
I mean if you think this delay is bad wait until WB wakes up and realizes Sony has just wholesale ripped off Gail Simone's origin for Catman in Secret Six and sues.
 
Since this is kind of the general MCU thread by default for things that don't have trailers yet, major news out of SDCC concerning Avengers 5: Kang completely scrapped, now it's Doctor Doom...

...played by RDJ

variety.com

Robert Downey Jr. Sets Marvel Return as Victor von Doom in ‘Avengers: Doomsday’

Robert Downey Jr. will bring Victor von Doom into the Marvel Cinematic Universe in "Avengers: Doomsday."
variety.com

Even the Russo bros come back for the Avengers films:
 
Well, as Secret Wars is the multiversal crossover (we think) possibly this Doom IS Tony from a universe where everything went to shit and he went bad?
 
I know the Jonathan Majors thing screwed them over, but Jesus I figured they had better options than this.
 
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(reposted from my thoughts on Facebook)

...

FUDGE~!

(you know what I mean)

This feels like I just woke up in an alternate universe (I already had this feeling for years, this just makes it worse).

Alright, maybe I am too old for the MCU, but this...this is really dumb. It reeks of desperation, bringing back an actor Marvel knows can deliver the goods and is super-duper popular. And yes, RDJ is a damn good actor, Oppenheimer and most of his IMDB catalogue show that.

But...

RDJ IS IRON MAN. And Iron Man died in Endgame. Full stop, no take backs.

If you have him as DOOM, his acting talents behind (yet another) iron mask could be superhuman, but it wouldn't be enough, bc all any audience member would hear is Iron Man's voice through the mask.

DOOM, as a character, deserves better than this throwback to nostalgia. DOOM is a man who has embraced technological might and sorcerous weaving into a terrifying force of his own. He rules Latveria with a benevolent but iron fist, and has literally achieved godhood multiple times in the comics. This is, to quote another film, "someone you do NOT want to fuck with".

Yet...he is also hideously mutilated from gaining this power, to the point in his origins he put a still- searing hot iron helmet on his mutilated skull bc if he could not have his beautiful looks then the world would have the iron mask of DOOM! And that is enough. He is not meant to EVER come out from behind that mask, it is his tomb as much as it is a fortress.

Viewed in that light, DOOM is an old-school Byronic character. And you can't tell me in this day and age, that any famous celebrity would be 100% okay with NEVER showing their face, ever.

To really pull DOOM off, they need to do what they did with Darth Vader. Get a hulking huge 6.5 or 7ft guy, dress him up in the armor, have him do his own stunts, etc, but then give him, say, Keith David's voice. Yes, Keith David is a goddamn legend both live action and in his voice, but he's also old, and can't do the physical parts. So...its a perfect fit. And DOOM would have something like Keith David's voice.

But it can't have RDJ's voice. Him and Iron Man are welded together at the genetic/atomic level.

With respect...I goddamn hate this casting choice. Literally anybody else on Earth would have better for this role than RDJ. DOOM deserves better.
 
Gog said:
Utter creative bankruptcy...but that's par for the course.
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They must have started backing up the money truck the moment Majors was found guilty

I mean I get it, they bet big on Kang and holy shit that did not pan out (you can recover from hitting your girlfriend, you cannot recover from hitting your girlfriend and getting caught comparing yourself (repeatedly!!!) to Obama and MLK) but it really does feel like the end of (a) culture

*EDIT* it absolutely (I mean who the fuck knows lol) going to be some Darth Vader shit where Doom looks something like his Infamous Iron Man look, with the big moment being the faceplate opening to reveal a scarred Tony/Doom, and he's going to be some Variant that somehow survived the counter-Snap or is from the bajillion timelines where they didn't manage to defeat Thanos cleanly/"win"/whatever, and Secret Wars is going to be about him trying to fulfill Thanos 2.0's goal of building a new universe, ultimately being defeated by the OG Tony (conveniently played by RDJ as well) or whatever, and oh no I've gone crosseyed
 
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Even ignoring the sheer creative banckruptcy of it, even ignoring the fact people are not going to be able to ignore RDJ = Iron Man, holy shit is RDJ a terrible choice to play Doom just on basic principles.
 
Kuja said:
Jesus.
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marvel let these dudes make a movie called endgame where they killed the big bad supervillain and also killed off two major heroes and sent a third off to his own timeline

what do you mean people stopped watching marvel stuff afterwards

no fix it

tom hooper made les miserables get him for cats

bring jj abrams back for rise of skywalker

this will fix all of the things right
 
Kuja said:
marvel let these dudes make a movie called endgame where they killed the big bad supervillain and also killed off two major heroes and sent a third off to his own timeline

what do you mean people stopped watching marvel stuff afterwards
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Honestly, I think they could have have fixed this just by giving the MCU a break. Let it rest for two, three, even four years. Let people process, move on from, even grow wistful for those movies.

Then, when they announced the MCU is back, people would be hyped. Because they would have had time to rest, try other things, have their palettes cleansed.

But of course they can't just do that because that's not making more money right now. So the goose that laid the golden egg must lay twice as many in half the time.
 
Like the answer is right there, in the entire backlog of non-Avengers Marvel characters. Just dust off the X Men or the Fantastic 4 or serving, hell make a Spider Gwen or Miles Morales movie.
 
tankdrop24 said:
Honestly, I think they could have have fixed this just by giving the MCU a break. Let it rest for two, three, even four years. Let people process, move on from, even grow wistful for those movies.

Then, when they announced the MCU is back, people would be hyped. Because they would have had time to rest, try other things, have their palettes cleansed.

But of course they can't just do that because that's not making more money right now. So the goose that laid the golden egg must lay twice as many in half the time.
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Honestly at this point I'd rather have Hugh Jackman as MCU's Doom than Wolverine. Same goes for Henry Cavill or Gerard Butler (in that order)

Doom is Literally Comic Book Phantom of the Opera, you want someone who can ham it up with some theatricality and flair
 
Like that's my main thing. RDJ is a great actor, everyone knows this, and can do a turn for the dramatic, but Doom requires a level of BOMBAST to him that I've just never seen RDJ pull off. You need someone who will take any scene he's in and just wolf it down without any hesitation to play Doom.
 
I'm so excited about the new nadir we seem to have reached. This is my 12/25, can't wait to see if we can somehow go lower.
 
Hykal94 said:
Somehow, RDJ returned ...

Could they not have gotten anyone else lol
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No because the MCU execs have looked at the success of Deadpool 3 (and GotG 3 last year) and seen where the money is. They've decided they can no longer be confident on-boarding new heroes as new MCU tentpoles. I'll doubt they'll stop entirely but it can't be the plan anymore. They're looking more and more for the bits of the legacy MCU they still have access too. Returning directors like the Russo brothers, bringing fan fav actors back (like RDJ), probably more focus on the big name heroes that are still about.

The new Captain America movie will be key. If it makes money, the MCU has a path forward with 'legacy' heroes - new heroes in an old mantel. If it fails, they will be even more tied to the legacy group.

This is also the exact same problem superhero comics have with declining sales and only a small crop of 'star hero' comics able to consistenly sell units. Only comics don't have the problem of aging out actors wanting to move on.
 
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tankdrop24 said:
Honestly, I think they could have have fixed this just by giving the MCU a break. Let it rest for two, three, even four years. Let people process, move on from, even grow wistful for those movies.

Then, when they announced the MCU is back, people would be hyped. Because they would have had time to rest, try other things, have their palettes cleansed.

But of course they can't just do that because that's not making more money right now. So the goose that laid the golden egg must lay twice as many in half the time.
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While a break might've helped in theory, I don't think it would've done a lot with the movies and series we've got.

Don't misunderstand me, I've enjoyed everything in "Phase 4&5" they've put out so far, but these "Phases" don't really have an identity or goal of their own. It's more like neat stuff that's happening. The goal of Phase 1 was clear: form the Avengers. Phase 2 and 3* worked towards the Infinity Stones and Thanos. Not everything was explicitly about it, but most had at least some building blocks for the overarching narrative.

Phase 4&5 on the other hand? I mean, it's called the Multiverse Saga and I guess Dr. Strange and the end of Spider Man NWH is "about" the Multiverse. In so far as they, end the end of the Marvels, say that it's a thing that exists. Now Loki and Antman did introduce the new big bad, but for 10 movies and 12 TV shows (so far), those two appearances (3 if you count the end of Loki S1) aren't really enough to create a feeling of cohesion.

Now, in hindsight it's a good thing that Marvel didn't make Kang a bigger focus throughout Phase 4&5, but I really doubt that they kept his role relatively small in case his actor gets accused and convicted of harassment and they have to pivot away from him.

What I feel they should've done is mirror Phase 1 and then 2&3. Identify who the core new Avengers are going to be and make standalone movies about them (that get connected through posts credits scenes). Then have a team up with them and the old Avengers to form a new team, which also introduces the new big bad. Then introduce new characters and develop existing characters while working toward the big finale. That way, Phase 4-6 would have a connecting tissue between the projects and would allow to grow hype for the eventual finale.

As it is, it's kinda hard for me to feel hype about new MCU releases. Since the current phases aren't really building toward something and I don't really know who will show up again in the future, the most I expect is to see a good movie / series. For example, I finally watched Echo last week and I felt that it was a neat show but I don't feel like I missed anything by not watching it the moment it was released. And I honestly feel the same about most MCU movies / shows the last couple of years.

*and I kinda wished they had used "Phase X" to collect films that work toward one narrative goal, instead of the rather random break points we've got. That way everything after Avengers up to Endgame would be Phase 2 and we'd now be in Phase 3.
 
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