- Location
- The Great Beyond
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
Given this part was completed weeks ago, @ltmauve would need to be precoging your notes and not merely reading them.
Limit Theory [PA Multicross SI]
Given this part was completed weeks ago, @ltmauve would need to be precoging your notes and not merely reading them.
ltmauve
"Excuse me?"
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Yeah... 10^15 tech trees all repeatedly boosted using Ascension to the point where they can barely be improved anymore, [SPOILERS
], and 50 million years of experience conquering galaxies makes for a formidable opponent.Honestly I don't see a way for SG-1 to win this at all, at least not without racking up a kill count that must be expressed in scientific notation of Hitlers by killing everyone in the Ori civilization. And I really don't see a way for them to do that, seeing as they're fighting [SPOILERS] that mean that a Prior could probably take out the upgraded Odyssey in unarmed combat.
And Ark of Truth would be completely not canon for Limit Theory, seeing as:
- The Ark would have been found by the Ori and integrated into their armies, meaning that they would now have mass brainwashing rays available as an option when conquering galaxies. This means my estimate of "1 million years to conquer a galaxy with a galaxy's resources" is reduced to maybe 10 years, plus maybe 90 years to build up infrastructure to make the new galaxy capable of conquering another one. Without worrying about loyalty, they can just hand out technology like candy.
- The Ori, backed up by the power of at least 10^15 galaxies, would be able to stop a damn table from tipping over.
- The Prior there would have had the team in chains within moments of them popping their heads up.
- This implies that Avalon somehow managed to hold out from a race that has mind-reading, personal tactical arbitrary teleportation, brainwashing, weapons, shields and armor at "fuck you" levels, and no compunctions about just showing up in Earth orbit and capturing the entire planet. Honestly, I doubt that the Avalon cluster would last more than a week after the the Battle of P3Y-229 (the second supergate, the one that wasn't sabotaged.)
- And that's assuming that the Ori couldn't just ship enough soldiers to Avalon to invade single planets like Earth before even putting up the Supergate. Ori technology would be able to vaporize the entire iris without blinking, and that's assuming they don't have personal interstellar teleportation. Or they just sneak by with a few invisible soldiers and hack the iris open when their invasion force dials in.
For a certain definition of "galaxy," there will be galactic destruction happening in the future.
Khan_Panther
My Muse stole my Necronomicon & pen
- Location
- Huh, I'm right here trapped in these words of mine
Galaxies
According to Physics.org
There is a slight Issue unless the SG Limit Theory universe is at least 10,000x
Population
As you have stated the Average population of one galaxy is 10^19 people (10^34 / 10^19)
At today's population of 7.4 Billion (short-scale) that comes out to equal 1,351,351,351 worlds or about 1.4 billion or 1,400,000,000 worlds per galaxy.
Note - The milky way is thought to have 100–400 billion Solar Systems, so at the most this would be a percent of a world
However if we assume that the Ori have LT-SG stargates at 45 glyphs, and all possible seven digits are used then 5,082,517,440 possible worlds.
For your 10^34 Population Mark Calculation brings the galaxy count down to about 2.66 x 10^14 galaxies if we assume Earth population worlds at the 5 billion planets mark
For your 10^15 Galaxy Mark Calculation raises the population figure to about 3.76 x 10^34 people if we assume Earth population worlds at the 5 billion planets mark
The 10^34 Population Mark Calculation raises or lowers the galaxy count based on Whether the average population of controlled worlds is higher or lower than Earth's at the moment.
The 10^15 Galaxy Mark Calculations raises or lowers the population count based on Whether the average population of controlled worlds is higher or lower than Earth's at the moment.
.
.
My Question is what is the average population of one of these planets and how many gates are possible to be in one galaxy at a time?
ltmauve
"Excuse me?"
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Limit Theory universes are infinite in the three spacial dimensions, bounded at one end at time (though not all at the same time; see Mordred's comments about demons) so they wouldn't be running out of galaxies even while chasing after Destiny in a wide cone of assimilation.
Right. So I misplaced a factor of 2 in my calculations. Turns out the population of a system is 1.9 * 10 ^ 15, not 3.75 * 10 ^ 15. Now, I assumed a very low value of 20,000 systems per galaxy, and that could very well be higher. In fact, it's probably an order of magnitude or two higher. Lanteans don't fuck around and Ori fuck around even less.
And I assumed that it would take 1 million years for the Ori to assimilate a galaxy and have it indoctrinated to the point they could trust it with all the cool toys. So that's actually 3.75 * 10 ^ 35 total population of the Ori, not counting the people who are Ascended. Which is probably... okay, lots. Probably at least 10^33 or something.
And of course, that's assuming that it takes 1 million years for a galaxy-wide crusade and proper cultural destruction and assimilation of the race into the Ori. I suspect a very young race would easily be assimilated. This is especially true if the Ori can outlive everyone and just keep pushing. I think I might have overestimated, but if I bump it down to 1,000 years that's 2^50,000 or 10^15,000, which is simply absurd. Like, the Exiles will run out of IFF addresses for their units before they can even begin. I suppose maybe they indoctrinate the people and see what technology they come up with so they have plenty of tech trees to upgrade using Ascension. Which means that instead of 10^15 tech trees they probably have something like 10^18 trees. Granted a lot of those trees will overlap but I think that means that the Ori would be completely overpowering.
As for the number of gates per galaxy, it's really limited by communication systems rather than any hard limit. Gates tend to swap/switch direction/a whole host of weird issues happen when gates try to connect too close unless they can properly communicate. For a 100,000 ly galaxy like Avalon 8-9 billion is the limit.
Khan_Panther
My Muse stole my Necronomicon & pen
- Location
- Huh, I'm right here trapped in these words of mine
Awesome, and thanks for answering my questions.
Your note about the limits for gates per galaxy is interesting 8-9 billion for Avalon.
I'll post the average 'zone' that a stargate must have before a different gate begins to interfere off of those numbers tonight or tomorrow afternoon.
For Janus Legios. I am also assuming all of the various Settings are Infinite also, or at least some arbitrary number my calculator won't reach, such as a googol in diameter.
I was curious how the other writers were approaching universe sizes for their settings. Thank you for letting me know.
.
Quick Idea suggestion
If you have an infinite area to play in, why not see about making a galaxy-analogue thing made out of your Libraries (532.5 AU in diameter), where the libraries act as the stars, and you have giant factories / resource generators scaled to act as planets.
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ltmauve
"Excuse me?"
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I don't even have intergalactic hyperdrive, so say nothing of cluster hyperdrive. And anyway, the universe has plenty of stuff in it. It's hard to find a good open spot.
Khan_Panther
My Muse stole my Necronomicon & pen
- Location
- Huh, I'm right here trapped in these words of mine
What follows are my promised gate calcs.
A quick Google search reveals that the Milky Way is between 1000 and 2000 ly thick on average. So I did 2 sets of calcs 1 for the thousand and one for the other
At 1000LY thick the Milky Way disc has a volume of 7,853,981,633,974.5 cubic LY
At 8 billion gates, then they average 981.748 LY^3 or a cube about 10 LY on a side
At 9 billion gates, then they average 872.665 LY^3 or a cube about 9.55 LY on a side
At 2000LY thick the Milky Way disc has a volume of 15,707,963,267,949 cubic LY
At 8 billion gates, then they average 1963.495 LY^3 or a cube about 12.5 LY on a side
At 9 billion gates, then they average 1745.329 LY^3 or a cube about 12 LY on a side.
So the minimum distance between two stargates appears to range between 9.55LY to 12.5LY on average before messing with each other
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Why couldn't have the Ori gone through the same cataclysmic extinction event the Alterans did, before using the Dakara weapon and those left running to Pegasus?
If you want millions of years of uninterrupted growth and expansion it is your choice, but you are making them so large that the observable universe will be a single small theatre of war.
If you want millions of years of uninterrupted growth and expansion it is your choice, but you are making them so large that the observable universe will be a single small theatre of war.
ltmauve
"Excuse me?"
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Considering that happened 40 million years after the Cluster Exodus, probably not the same thing. And besides, the Ori and Priors would totally use that to their advantage, by only curing their followers.
...Well, I'm more worried about the huge number of tech trees they'd have access to, then the size of the empire.
And civil wars probably would happen, given that the leadership is a co-opted cult. Especially after the one semi-sane leader leaves. So when that happens they have 1 million galaxies, after 5 million years, they only have 1 out of 100 left. And I imagine they wouldn't try to take over so many galaxies at once to keep a closer eye on things... so maybe only a billion galaxies.
Jackercracks
In a British accent
- Location
- England
Only if the other galaxies don't have their own scary fuckers that you wouldn't want to mess with inhabiting them.
Khan_Panther
My Muse stole my Necronomicon & pen
- Location
- Huh, I'm right here trapped in these words of mine
Or, you could have the Ori be like the Imperium of Man, where whole entire sectors can go dark for thousands of years and then be rediscovered. All, the while those in power don't really care so long as the system still works somewhat.
Just take that concept and instead of planets and solar systems. The Ori are treating galaxies much like the Imperium would worlds.
The Imperium is noted as having a million worlds as concrete and then upto a hundred times as many in reality, what with the constant losing and rediscovering of these systems.
So the Ori have a million to a billion galaxies as a definite, and due to infighting and other incidents such as war or plagues like what hit the Alterans long after the split ma y times this number have been lost and/or reclaimed. And these countless galaxies are just waiting for the Ori to reclaim them or at least try to.
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Stephenopolos
Going through stargate withdrawl
- Location
- illinois
ltmauve
"Excuse me?"
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Yeah, I can definitely see that if there's a 30 million year civil war going on. I mean, Mordred wasn't drinking that much of his own kool-aid, but he literally united a few million cultists through charisma and having solid evidence to back up his position. Once he left, I can easily see the original Ori fracturing, and some of the younger Ori who weren't cultists taking their galaxies and going "nope, no one here but us chickens" simply to avoid their charges getting murdered by some crazy scheme of the original Ori.
Sure. Just send me a link to the thing once you've posted it.
Stephenopolos
Going through stargate withdrawl
- Location
- illinois
Thanks ^.^ it'll probably be a bit before I use it.
Chapter 41
ltmauve
"Excuse me?"
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Chapter 41
------------------------Rachel
------------------------
"Alright, though we don't have anything to read them with." Daniel responded to my offer to look at some stuff together.
I frowned for a moment. "Give me a minute." I said, closing my avatar's eyes and concentrating.
After a couple of moments, I opened my eyes. "Well, if I may?" I asked, gesturing to the table.
"Uh, I guess." Daniel said.
"Right." I responded, and thrust out my hands. My internal fabricators activated, flash-forging nanomachines in tiny pits and guiding them out to the table, where I transformed the table into something a bit more.
When the mist returned to nothingness, there was a solid-looking, metal-and-glass table sitting there. Through the glass surface, one could see the crystalline elements of a holoprojector, that I had adapted from Goa'uld and Knowdraden technology.
"Oh come on." Sam rolled her eyes.
"Huh." Jack said. "I was expecting some sort of magical chanting as well."
"I have to wonder why you would have even needed us." Daniel said, pulling up a chair.
I pulled up my own chair. "Well, shall we get started?"
-------------------------
"Well, before he started his cult, Mordred actually seemed to be legitimately afraid of something." Jack said, watching a mini-Mordred, pre-Vader-Obsidian-Knight-suit, give a speech on how the Destiny Expedition would lead to disaster.
"And then he started drinking his own kool-aid?" Daniel asked, looking up from a bunch of hospital reports. He was looking at how the draining affected the Ori cultists. Apparently there was a 50% mortality rate, and 60% of the survivors suffered from increasing mental illnesses, lessened energy, and cancer and autoimmune diseases. 20% of the survivors went into a coma for an extended period of time. Only 10% survived the process totally fine, and the Ori recruited from them to be Priors.
"I do not understand why drinking one's own alcoholic beverage is a sign of madness." Teal'c commented, while looking slightly upset at the Ori's religious text.
"For-" Jack sighed, "Kool-aid isn't alcoholic, T. It's an expression meaning that he believed his own B.S."
"Does your species behave similar to mine?" I asked. "There have been documented cases of mental scientists being cult leaders for research, only to begin believing in whatever doctrine their cult espoused."
"There were a few cases, but nothing conclusive." Daniel said. "How's your research going, Sam?"
Sam and I were looking at the recordings of the energy extraction. It was not going well.
"I am pretty sure that Ganos wasn't recording the things that she needed to in order to make sense of this complete nonsense. I'm tempted to throw my hands up and just say 'magic.'" Sam slumped in her chair.
"You know, there are about a million Lantean papers saying that about their lifesigns detector." I said suddenly. "I'd be willing to bet that there's a connection. Plus the Ancient Life-fountain."
"Life-fountain?" Daniel asked.
"It's this cube about two meters across, with a cut-in on each side. It's probably related to your myths of a spring of eternal youth. All the Lantean papers on it are basically 'what is this shit it's worse than the lifesigns detectors.' It's apparently really old, so it was probably brought from their home galaxy." I shrugged. "But of course given that the Lanteans usually went 'what is this shit' with the lifesigns detectors for 50 million years I doubt they could get whatever this is." I gestured to the holograms in front of us.
Sam tapped on her keyboard, closing a few graphs and bringing up medical diagrams. "Okay, even looking at the point of origin of that little point of light, it's different for different people and medical scans show no differences before and after people got drained."
"The Lanteans covered that." I said, pulling up some of the relevant diagrams. "They determined that the point of light came from one of the points here." I indicated the points within the heart, aorta, and pulmonary veins. "And they basically had no idea why. Of course they eventually decided to throw in the towel, say they had no clue, and de-ass the galaxy."
I had noticed something familiar about the whole situation, but there was a critical example between what I was remembering and what Merlin had written about. Which might not actually be a fundamental difference between the two, but what I thought it might be was from a different franchise. If it turned out that the two worlds were actually the same… well the SGC would be significantly braver for digging stuff up, and significantly stupider for digging stuff up.
----------------------------------
Eventually, the Altairan team got all tired out, and had to get sleep.
"Well, I will leave you humans to your sleep." I said, when Jack kicked his boots onto the table and leaned back his chair to start snoring. With that, I exited the house and beamed my avatar up.
In the meantime, well, my searches of Atlantis's databases had turned up the project I had been looking for information about. So, I could probably start moving forward in my Pegasus galaxy operations without worrying about poking it.
I dialed a wormhole to Atlantis and got moving. I was going to want to be in the galaxy, but I did have plenty of systems capable of dialing an interstellar gate.
Standing on the deck of the great city, I cracked my knuckles and watched the entire galaxy. Wormholes opened between Avalon and Pegasus, as troops streamed out. Once there, they proceeded to lay down mexes and energy plants before the wormholes cut off their supplies, leaving them to finish the work on their own. My assimilation macros did their job, letting them cover entire systems in only hours.
Then, the gate dialed in again, letting the bases get enough energy to activate interstellar teleporters. With that, they dropped off mobile nanite energy generators and Gulls in orbit of every single system without a Stargate.
And then the process began again.
And then that was it. I had managed to assimilate an entire galaxy in under a day, with no one the wiser. That's a pretty heady feeling there, better watch it.
- Location
- Somewhere on the flat earth
I have no idea how you plan to fight against this version of the Ori. You've been insinuating there is something worse so maybe team up at the end?
- Location
- Pale Blue Dot
The wraith are speed bumps at this point. When you can go '90% of the systems in galaxy A sends a group of ships to system X in galaxy B' every ten minutes or so, it really does not matter how big or tough the wraith hiveships are. The only question is how big a boom they make (in case anyone can detect said booms), and how much collateral there is.
Even a death star has a problem when there are incoming fighters and corvettes that in total outmass the entire solar system, sun included. When the attacking fleet has to manage their approach vectors so as not to destabilize the planetary orbits too badly as a side effect of driving past, things are about to get serious.
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- Location
- America
Actually no, gravity isn't a linear function remember? Anything in the exact middle might feel a net zero, but as you move to the side, you're gonna start feeling things alright.
- Location
- Pale Blue Dot
I was thinking about the effect you have in a planet where if you go under the surface, you only get the gravity from whatever is still underneath you, and can for the effect of gravity ignore the shell over you, because it cancels out.
How does gravity work underground?
How does gravity work underground?
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- Location
- The Outer Plane Of Munchkinry.
i once heard that using up all the fuel in a star at once could outshine a galaxy, that's a hall of a lot more then one star, i wonder if they can all be pointed at one place.
Point of light extracted from the vicinity of the heart, provides lots of energy, no other mundane medical evidence of existence...
