Let's Read: Warhammer Fantasy: End Times

[Codex]

Introduction:

Hello there. Welcome to my study. My name is Codex, and if you're reading this, you may or may not know me from Divided Loyalties, an excellent quest from this website written and QMed by the lovely @Boney, who kickstarted my interest in and love for the Warhammer Fantasy setting. If you know me from the thread, you probably know that I'm very invested and that I've gone through a frankly ludicrous number of lore books within a relatively short time. If you want the full reading list, then here you go:

Spoiler: Books I Read

Army Books and Supplements:
6th, 7th, and 8th Edition Core Books for Warhammer Fantasy
6th, 7th and 8th Edition Empire Army Books
6th and 8th Edition High Elves Army Books
6th and 8th Edition Wood Elves Army Books
6th and 8th Edition Dark Elves Army Books
6th (Revised) and 8th Edition Dwarf Army Books
6th and 8th Edition Ogre Kingdoms Army Books
6th and 8th Edition Orcs and Goblins Army Books
6th, 7th and 8th Edition Lizardmen Army Books
6th and 7th Edition Beastmen Army Books
6th and 7th Edition Skaven Army Books
6th and 8th Edition Tomb Kings Army Books
6th and 8th Edition Vampire Counts Army Books
6th Edition Bretonnia Army Book
6th Edition Kislev Supplement
6th Edition Hordes of Chaos as well as 8th Edition Warriors and Daemons of Chaos
5th Edition Dogs of War
8th Edition Supplement Storm of Magic
6th Edition Dark Shadows, Storm of Chaos, Lustria and Conquest of the New World Supplement/Campaign Books
A Smattering of White Dwarfs, ranging from War of the Beard to Maisontaal Abbey to the Dragon Isles to the Vampire Coast White Dwarf. I haven't read all of them, but some of them I have.
2E WFRP:
Core Book and Companion Book
Old World Armory
Old World Bestiary
Night's Dark Masters
Knights of the Grail
Realm of the Ice Queen
Heirs of Sigmar
Realm of Sorcery
Tome of Salvation
Tome of Corruption
Shades of Empire
Ashes of Middenheim
Spires of Altdorf
Forges of Nuln
Terror in Talabheim
Barony of the Damned
Children of the Horned Rat
Renegade Crowns and Lure of the Liche Lord
I also read 1st Edition WFRP Sold Down the River and 4th Edition WFRP Archives of the Empire Volume I to fill in some gaps

I believe that's all of them. I think it's fair to say I have a decent level of background information going into the End Times, and believe it or not but I actually know many of the major story beats that occur here. If you're expecting a blind run, then I hate to disappoint, but I'm here to pinpoint, analyse and understand the End Times rather than going into it as a fresh experience. Expect some degree of negativity, but I'd like to think that I'm fairly restrained and don't have nostalgia to strengthen negative feelings directed towards the writers.

If it's not clear already, I'm going to be reading the End Times and trying to look over every piece of it rather than just the main books. I'm starting with End Times: Nagash and going from there. First, some ground rules:

If I quote something, I will reference the page number as it comes up in my version of the book. I will also do my best to maintain the exact wording. If I don't add quotations to something, assume that I'm paraphrasing and using my own words to describe something, and I likely won't mention the exact page number.

I am limited in what I can post for obvious reasons regarding copyright, but I will try to grab the occasional excerpt that interests me for one reason or another.

I'm probably going to be a bit spontaneous in my read through. I might slow down or speed up, go through a lot of sections in succession or get bogged down on one part for a little while. Please bear with me as I do have university and I'm mostly doing this as a distraction from Divided Loyalty downtime when the thread is getting pretty quiet.

All that being said, let's start!

End Times: Nagash readthrough Part 1:

The first thing I notice as soon as I start reading the book is the fact that it starts out making it absolutely clear that it's the apocalypse. Several pages are dedicated towards a prophecy of doom indicating the destruction of the mortal plane and the phases of the chaos that would ensure in the End Times, from the Skaven invasion to the Elven civil war to Archaon's moment. There are several passages throughout the beginning that make it completely clear that this is "Archaon's Moment" so to speak. It's probably one of the least effective ways of building a villain up, because right from the start I know that the narrative literally revolves around him.

There isn't necessarily a problem with revolving a narrative around a specific individual, even a villain. The problem here is that Archaon has never struck me as an interesting character in all my time delving through Warhammer material, and the start of the book certainly doesn't help much since the narrative outright says he'll win. I'll try my best to give Archaon a fair chance, but I don't think I will like him very much.

The book basically starts with the prophecy of doom followed by a neat snippet focusing on a Skink Priest moving into Mazdamundi's Star Chamber. We then get a Skink messenger arriving into the Chamber to inform the Priest (Tetko) that Kroq-Gar requires more support, and Tetko replies that this is unprecedented. There is an underlying message that things are not right, especially for the Lizardmen who are so used to plans. Mazdamundi then wakes up and outright says that the Great Plan has failed, and the Exodus will have to begin. Right from the start of the book, the Lizardmen give up and decide that their goal is to survive rather than win. How thrilling.

The next section then lays out an overview of the impending apocalypse as chaotic forces start converging and wrecking havoc across the world, and while the prose is actually quite nice and evocative, providing vibrant descriptions that did make the writing feel smooth and concise, there is an underlying factor going on here that sours the writing.

Namely, that from the very start, it's clear to me that everybody but Chaos is incompetent.

An example of this is perhaps a snippet about corruption spreading across the lands, with anecdotal instances of individuals falling to Chaos and the Gods of the mortal realm waning in strength, for they are weak compared to the Dark Brothers who sup on the brew that is mankind's vibrant emotions. There is those example:

"In Altdorf, a Sister of Shallya completed her morning's devotions, took up a carving knife from the refectory, and slaughtered those with whom she had lived and worshipped for two decades. When the city watch finally breached the temple a day later, they found her sitting amidst bloody and half-eaten bodies. The captain of the watch made the mistake of thinking her catatonic; soon he had a ragged gash where his throat should have been, and she had a sword as well as a knife. Thus began a trail of carnage that stretched to the border of Troll Country, and ended at last in a hail of bullets somewhere on the Nordvast-Streckhein road." Page 15

Yes, you heard that right. A single Sister of Shallya corrupted by Khorne killed every single women in her temple, killed and/or escaped the Watch, and travelled several hundred miles unimpeded all the up to goddamn Troll Country. I am utterly astonished that the Empire even survives if this is what a single corrupted individual can do. What continues my irritation is that there is no build up to the apocalyptic mood. Within the very first 10-20 pages, Karak Izor, one of the three most major of the New Holds and one of the strongest current holds of the Dwarves, almost fell to a Daemonic invasion were it not for them spontaneously vanishing into the Chaos Realms. The entirety of the banks of the Aver fell to Chaos with only Averheim surviving because the Daemons vanished as they came upon the walls.

There is no buildup to this. You open the book and you instantly see the forces of order buckling. Then we get to the Dark Elf section of the chapter. In there, something truly baffling happens:

"As elsewhere, northmen spilled south across the Ironfrost Glacier into Naggaroth. Their banners were black against the storm-laden sky; the tramp of their iron-shod feet a rumble of thunder in distant lands. This was the Bloodied Horde, and Valkia was its dread mistress. She had heard Khorne's voice bellowing through the thunderous skies, and now drove her followers south to claim skulls in his name. The Gorequeen cared not for Archaon's strategy – she knew only that Khorne called for blood, and thus she set forth to slake his monstrous thirst.

The horde marched with harsh cheer and boom of drum, yet, incredibly, the Naggarothi were caught unaware. Too long had they relied upon the sorceresses of Ghrond to alert them to such perils, but the Tower of Prophecy lay silent behind a shield of sorcery. Raven-cloaked border patrols fled before the northlanders, turning their swift steeds south towards the safety of the Watchtowers. One by one, the dark riders were overtaken by yowling daemons and plucked from their horses. Only a handful reached the tower of Volroth, there to perish from their wounds." Page 16

An army of Khorne caught the Dark Elves garrisoning the border against Chaos in the north of Naggaroth by surprise. Because they relied upon sorceresses to predict when a goddamn Khorna army would be marching across the ice. Not only is the sheer stupidity here baffling, but when the relieving force comes in to the tower of Volroth, it's revealed that a garrison of eighty thousand Dark Elves lay dead.

I know how GW feels about numbers, especially in regards to the Elves. I'm going to disregard that one of the garrisons for only one of at least eleven Watchtowers consists of eighty thousand soldiers. Dark Elves spontaneously form from the Aethyr as far as I know.

Anyways, the forces of Chaos breach the Watchtowers and attack the cities of the Druchii. The Dark Elves are besieged for several months and are completely and utterly overwhelmed because of course they are, they're fighting Chaos. Malekith is absent, off doing god knows what, and Morathi is shut in her tower. Kouran Darkhand takes over the control of Naggarond because the Council of the city is practically useless, and apparently he's not a good enough tactician to break the siege, coming into a stalemate twice against Valkia herself in a duel. At the end of the day, Malekith comes back to save the day and calls his entire council useless because they are.

Here, the narrative shifts from a general recounting to a narrative prose from the perspective of Kouran during a council meeting at Malekith's hand, and it lets us get a good look at his personality, thought process and Druchii culture. It is predictably awful and edgy, as you would expect. An example of this is that the map that Malekith is slamming his fist into and from which the coordinates are drawn is actually parchment made from the flayed skin of an incompetent map maker, and the figures that are supposed to represent locations on the map are carved finger bones. Classy.

Also from his internal perspective, we get a look at Kouran assessing Malus Darkblade, who is enjoying Malekith's failure because he desires rebellion, and Kouran knows this, so he's internally preparing to "have something done about that". Malekith apologises to a Black Ark Fleetmaster by the name of Drane Brackblood, who was supposed to lead the invasion to Ulthuan but was recalled to deal with the Chaos Invasion. She sounds pretty upset, and because they're Dark Elves, Kouran says this internally:

" 'Our campaign against hated Ulthuan will be delayed until the barbarians have been… humbled,' Malekith continued in a dangerous whisper, his temper perhaps subsiding. 'Accept our apologies, Lady Brackblood, for we know that this was to have been your finest hour.'

The Witch King's temper was under control once more, if it had truly been roused in the first place. Even Kouran could not always tell when his master played at rage for theatrical effect.

To Kouran's left, Drane Brackblood gave a predatory smile. 'Your majesty is most gracious,' she said, her voice like silk torn on broken glass.

She had plotted long and hard to be given command of the invasion fleet, Kouran thought, but she knew better than to express her disappointment in council. That would be taken out on her household and, if rumour held true, the very special prisoner chained in the deepest dungeon of her manse. " Page 18

It is here as the conversation within the council room shifts to throwing Malus Darkblade towards a seemingly dangerous and thankless task related to "providing consideration for our dark mother" that I end this section, as the chapter will transition into Ulthuan and I think this is enough of a benchmark for a first post. If you enjoyed reading this, stick around. I might speed up my read through as I go along, since the first book has about 600 pages and I'm only on page 18.

 

[FlyingScanian]

I doubt I will enjoy it since, well, End Times (and this first look does not exactly inspire hope). But it is probably the easiest way for me to get an actual, mostly neutral look at the [redacted]. Your sacrifice is appreciated.

 

[NSMS]

Well... not having read the book in question, it immediately comes across as having an extreme 'tell, don't show' problem. Most of those quotes you've given are narrative overviews and summaries, rather than on-the-ground accounts. Things like the Shallyan sister could be horrifically effective at building a sense of despair and desperation if told from the right perspective, but here it sounds like it's almost literally a case of 'X thing happened with Y result, leading to Q'.

 

[Ericwinter]

…Wow. I'm not a lore buff at all, but just as an aspiring author I know that's not how you open a story. Maybe, maybe if it were actually leading up to a true reversal of fortunes, but even then 10+ pages of "here's how the world is fucked" right off the bat just… sucks. The scale of the story forgives it only a little. My sympathies for the poor OP who will suffer through this.

 

[Codex]

Well... not having read the book in question, it immediately comes across as having an extreme 'tell, don't show' problem. Most of those quotes you've given are narrative overviews and summaries, rather than on-the-ground accounts. Things like the Shallyan sister could be horrifically effective at building a sense of despair and desperation if told from the right perspective, but here it sounds like it's almost literally a case of 'X thing happened with Y result, leading to Q'.

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That is indeed the structure of the book. This is the lore book, which provides a general overview of the events followed by occasional looks from the perspective of an individual. So far, 18 pages in I got a look at Tetko and Kouran, and the rest was an overview of the situation from an omniscient point of view. The omniscient point of view doesn't do much to inspire hope however, because it constantly mentions how powerful and destructive the forces of Chaos are and how much death and carnage is happening. I know the outcome of the End Times is the destruction of the world, but I have to wonder if the people reading the updates as they went along even had any hope that Order would triumph. From my look at it, it doesn't seem like there was ever any hope. They made it pretty clear.

 

[Leolu]

The Lizardmen... gave up at the first sign of trouble? I was unaware of this and given everything else. This is gonna be one hell of a ride. Though probably a fun one. Since it's already edging into so bad it's funny territory for me.

 

[Ericwinter]

Yeah, that sounds like it. Maybe if there were a couple things where someone fought back, won a minor victory or even just bled Chaos into a Pyrrhic victory—without Deus ex Machina's like that Averland thing—but unambiguously stating that "the bad guys are gonna win, get over it" is terrible writing. I don't mind spoilers, usually, but that's not even spoilers.

 

[Sinsystems]

Personally I agree that there should have been some build up, from the sound of things they went full bore into the "Everything is screwed!" feel which from my experience can really sap reader investment.

Also I know why the Lizardmen were written to just give up at the start, it's because the writers had set them up as the Big Good faction that opposed Chaos but didn't want to spend the time justifying why such a powerful group would lose. So they just had them decide to run from the very start.

 

[Boney]

I know the outcome of the End Times is the destruction of the world, but I have to wonder if the people reading the updates as they went along even had any hope that Order would triumph.

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From memory? It didn't even occur to most people that there was any possibility that this was endgame. You have to remember, we'd been here before, we'd done this before. Most people just thought they were laying it on thick because they were trying to build Archaon back up from being so ingloriously demolished in the Storm of Chaos. We figured that they'd destroy a few cities and kill a few named characters and then the board would be reset for the next big event.

 

[NSMS]

GW was/is notorious for holding mass campaigns where people can submit battle results to influence the outcome, then ignoring the results they don't want.

 

[Sinsystems]

From memory? It didn't even occur to most people that there was any possibility that this was endgame. You have to remember, we'd been here before, we'd done this before. Most people just thought they were laying it on thick because they were trying to build Archaon back up from being so ingloriously demolished in the Storm of Chaos. We figured that they'd destroy a few cities and kill a few named characters and then the board would be reset for the next big event.

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I mean could you blame anyone? While obviously not as successful as 40K the setting was still fairly popular and was making them money, really all it needed was for GW to put a little more effort into supporting it by doing things like updating Brettonia or releasing some cool new models and they would have a decent amount of success.

No one expected them to kill off the entire setting.

 

[Altom]

From memory? It didn't even occur to most people that there was any possibility that this was endgame. You have to remember, we'd been here before, we'd done this before. Most people just thought they were laying it on thick because they were trying to build Archaon back up from being so ingloriously demolished in the Storm of Chaos. We figured that they'd destroy a few cities and kill a few named characters and then the board would be reset for the next big event.

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Indeed. I recall coming back to fantasy after a few years of only reading 40k. It was, i believe shortly after Nagash was released, and after reading it i was pumped. I jumped into debates on forums i made effortposts and theories, i thought about it all the time.
Then book 2 came and while it was dark there was actually hope by the end of that book. So I was still very much excited for more.
Book 3 was very much a wash for me. It was all about the elves and I didn't care much about them, so I just shrugged and kept waiting for the next.
Book 4 was, i believe when the reality started to sink in, as it destroyed almost everything that was not wrecked by book 2 and all the hope set up by the ending of 2 was gone.
By the time of book 5, rumors of the eventual finale were widespread and persistent, so by the time it hit there was little left of the giddy excitement i had after book 1. I read it more out of obligation to finish the series then any genuine interest.

So, yeah. In the begginning we thought it would be kinda like Storm of Chaos but this time with cleaner narrative. Instead we got destruction of the setting and goldplated Ground Marines to replace it.

 

[Ericwinter]

Well now I just feel extra sorry for people who were there when it happened. That sounds terrible.

 

[veekie]

Huh, seems rather phoned in. Chaos wasn't being competent so much as all resistance just spontaneously evaporating?

 

[Mister Phantom]

Ground Marine

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Excuse you, those are Sigmar Males.

 

[Altom]

Huh, seems rather phoned in. Chaos wasn't being competent so much as all resistance just spontaneously evaporating?

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Let's just say that this is only the beginning of the raw bullshit that happens in ET.

 

[Codex]

Dark Days in Ulthuan:

In this section, we move on from Naggaroth to Ulthuan to see what the Asur are up to. To catch up the people who are unaware, the last major event to occur in the High Elf timeline is Mannfred Von Carstein cooperating with Heinrich Kemmler to kidnap Aliathra the Everchild, firstborn daughter of the Everqueen and assumed heir. While Ulthuan in general believes her to be the daughter of Finubar the Phoenix King, the truth is that she is not the rightful heir to the Everqueen because she is the daughter of Tyrion and Alarielle. Therefore, when she was kidnapped, Tyrion went very mad and staged a rescue with his forces alongside Teclis and several others and managed to save Aliathra from Nagash's lair before being ambushed and losing her again, and if it were not for a Dwarf throng led by High King Thorgrim, they would have been doomed as they were outnumbered.

Of course, Tyrion was not grateful to the Dwarves, because he's mad his daughter was kidnapped again. The rescue party is sulky as they return to Ulthuan. Meanwhile, the Asur are noticing that the Druchii aren't staging their usual friday night assaults and wondering what's going on when the a portal pops up over the Annuli Mountains and the forces of Chaos flood their way through the Ten Kingdoms of Ulthuan. Cue several paragraphs of doom and destruction from each of the Chaos Gods over each of the Kingdoms. You would expect the Phoenix King to be coordinating a defence, but he's busy doing this:

"The official word from the Phoenix Court was that he had sealed himself in the Heavenlight Tower and, with solitude his only companion, cast his mind upon the winds of magic to divine the cause of the enfolding disaster. At first, this was sufficient to quell the mutterings at court and beyond. However, as time passed and the situation grew ever more dire, discontent began to spread through the noble halls of Ulthuan." Page 20

While Finubar is stuck in his mind palace, the rest of the Elves are dying, and from here the narrative ventures into speedrunning political drama in the most uninteresting way. Basically, the narrative starts moving fast as the writers decide they want an agitator, so they choose Imrik, Prince of Caledor and last heir to Caledor Dragontamer. From here, Imrik decides to use this opportunity to seize power, using rhetoric focused on tearing down Finubar because the Phoenix King is supposed to protect the realm and he's not here. He suggests that the Princes elect a new Phoenix King, and everyone knows that he means himself. The rest of the Princes are in no position to argue and they are beginning to agree with him, especially since he has the military power to back up his claims. If you support Imrik, he will come to your aid. If you don't, you're left to fend for yourself. Teclis figured this out soon after arriving and seeing the chaos in Ulthuan.

Deciding there was no choice but to interrupt Finubar's Sherlock Mind Palace bit, Teclis spent three days devising a method of getting past Finubar's wards and another day to break into the Tower. When he came out that same night, he was far paler and would not say a word about what he saw. He then started campaigning for Tyrion to take control over Ulthuan and contest Imrik's claim, but Tyrion doesn't care, he's too focused on Aliathra and he's getting pretty mad. This results in a narrative exchange between Tyrion and Teclis that gets pretty intense:

"'I will weep for your daughter later, brother. For now, it is the fate of our entire race that concerns me, as it should concern you. Unless we can find a way to cheat fate, the Asur will no longer be anything other than a memory. I will see the world itself unmade before I allow that to happen. What will you do?'

'Whatever I must,' Tyrion replied darkly. 'But will you do it to assuage your guilt, or to protect a people who rely on their greatest champion now more than ever?' Teclis felt his brother's baleful glare upon him, but the mage met it unflinchingly.

Teclis sighed. 'Very well. I know the folly of trying to change your mind once it is made up, and I too have errands that will not wait.' With a sweep of robes he turned and strode briskly towards the door, but paused for a moment on the threshold. 'I forgive you for what you have done, brother. I only hope that when the time comes, you can forgive me for what I must do now.' " Page 23

Tyrion then prepares his forces to go on a rescue mission with Eltharion, the Warden of Yvresse, and Princess Eldyra of Tiranoc, his former Squire, his two most trusted companions who he had entrusted with Aliathra's secret. There, he discovers that the two of them are willing to go out to save Aliathra with ten thousand soldiers, they just want Tyrion to take control of Ulthuan in its time of need. Seeing no other choice, Tyrion nods and rides to challenge Imrik's claim in perhaps one of the most underwhelming scenes because they didn't bother to break into narrative for it:

"Tyrion returned to the Phoenix Council at the height of one of Imrik's speeches. He entered the room in full armour, and challenged every lord there to lay aside their differences and marshal their forces to the defence of the Ten Kingdoms. If any sought to quarrel further, he declaimed, then he would happily settle such arguments with Sunfang's keen edge.

All there present were shamed by Tyrion's words, or were cowed by his manner; all save Imrik, who flew to his feet and demanded under what authority Tyrion dared speak so. Aenarion's heir smiled without humour, and told the Dragon Prince that he was but the herald of Asuryan, and of the Phoenix King who was the Creator's mortal servant – under such authority there was nothing he would not dare. A cold rage now descended upon Imrik's heart. Declaring that Caledor would stand alone, he swept out of the chamber and abandoned forever his dreams of claiming the Phoenix Crown.

Soon, a great host marched out of Lothern, with Tyrion and the Phoenix Guard at its head. With them rode the lords and warriors of nine kingdoms. Imrik had stubbornly clung to his pledge, and refused to look to the defence of any kingdom save Caledor." Page 24

What a riveting political thriller.

The narrative then shifts to Eltharion, Eldyra and Belanner (Loremaster of Hoeth, Teclis' predecessor) setting sail to the Old World. In here, we get a nod to Finreir, one of the three Archmages who joined Magnus in the Great War against Chaos around 200 years ago. Apparently, he's in charge of defending the White Tower while Belanner is out looking for Aliathra, because he feels her cries on the wind. I think I should also mention that the Everqueen is aware of what happened to her daughter and she's isolating herself in Gaen Vale (Avelorn's holy forest). Is she doing something? Maybe. I don't know.

Anyways, here I'm starting to notice something. See if you can spot it:

"It was plain now that Aliathra's capture was part of some dark plot, and Belannaer advised Eltharion to seek aid from the other nations of the Old World. Eltharion had resisted at first, for he loathed that Aliathra's fate could be placed in the hands of men and dwarfs, but at last he relented. The forces of darkness and destruction were on the march, that much was evident. Better that Ulthuan ally itself with willing primitives, he judged, than stand alone in defeat. Swallowing the last of his pride, Eltharion ordered the ships of his fleet to head due east, for the Empire of Sigmar." Page 25

This is also coupled with this part of Teclis' internal monologue in Page 23:

"Tyrion stood in the centre of the room, his palms braced upon the top of the silverwood table, his eyes focussed on a map of the upstart Empire of Men, and occasionally darting to a scroll that contained troop readiness reports from across the Ten Kingdoms."

They're really laying the Elven supremacy angle on thick here.

With this, the book transitions into the Empire's perspective, and will then move on to Athel Loren. I might go by faction perspective to faction perspective in the beginning, then transition into a different style once the actual meat of the story begins. So far it's been set up, but the setup goes so fast it feels like I barely strapped myself in before I got whiplash.

 

[Sinsystems]

So, yeah. In the begginning we thought it would be kinda like Storm of Chaos but this time with cleaner narrative. Instead we got destruction of the setting and goldplated Ground Marines to replace it.

Click to shrink...

While I wasn't too into Warhammer Fantasy at the time I do recall the general vibe people had for Age of Sigmar when it came out. If I recall correctly there was a lot of bitterness and spite, mostly because from the community's perspective it felt like they sacrificed the setting they loved for the new and shiny Age of Sigmar.

Like from what I could tell there really wasn't much stopping GW from having both, seriously all they needed to do was release Age of Sigmar without killing Fantasy and then the hype would have been a lot better. Hell they could very easily have some models be viable between settings, sort of like how you could use various Daemons of Chaos models in 40K games without any issues.

It would have saved GW time and money while allowing them to get twice the bang for their buck when making new models.

 

[veekie]

GM got tired of the players not following the plot so "why isn't the pheonix king doing anything?" Is answered with "meditating, for Reasons".

 

[Ericwinter]

…You know, I'm seeing a lot of "so and so leader locked themselves away and do jack-all as the world burned down around them." Like, the sorceresses, Morathi, Malekith at first though he eventually showed back up, Finubar, Alarielle, even Tyrion is too busy chasing his daughter to bother… that's kinda ridiculous.

 

[Leolu]

I guess the vortex just doesn't exist anymore? Because I'm pretty sure it should have made opening that chaos portal near impossible and made any daemonic invading army suffer disgusting attrition from being near it.

And damn. That's pretty harrowing. I wonder how the writers felt. Since I doubt they exactly wanted to burn their setting down.

 

[Codex]

I guess the vortex just doesn't exist anymore? Because I'm pretty sure it should have made opening that chaos portal near impossible and made any daemonic invading army suffer disgusting attrition from being near it.

And damn. That's pretty harrowing. I wonder how the writers felt. Since I doubt they exactly wanted to burn their setting down.

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Well, there is this:

"Here and there, the elves succeeded in stemming the tide of corruption. Banners were raised across the Ten Kingdoms, and armies marched to oppose the daemonic assault. Protected from the daemonic malice by the steel of Sapherian swordmasters, elven magi drew upon every known shred of sorcerous lore, and dispersed the roiling magic into the Great Vortex. Such was dangerous work; no few mages lost their sanity in the striving, minds driven beyond the precipice of reason by daemonic whispers. Only in Yvresse did spear and bow alone hold the tide at bay, for the mistwalkers of those parts had long fought such threats." Page 20

I can't afford to go over everything, so I occasionally skip over some things. We'll be here forever otherwise. But they do mention the Vortex for what it's worth. The Chaos attack occurs anyway. People die. The usual.

If you ever want to make sure something or if you're confused about a particular story beat, you can always ask. I can't guarantee that I have an answer, especially right away, but part of this read through is that I should theoretically be able to clear confusion on certain matters.

 

[Boney]

While I wasn't too into Warhammer Fantasy at the time I do recall the general vibe people had for Age of Sigmar when it came out. If I recall correctly there was a lot of bitterness and spite, mostly because from the community's perspective it felt like they sacrificed the setting they loved for the new and shiny Age of Sigmar.

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The part that's easy to miss in hindsight is the three whole months between "the world ends" and "here's Age of Sigmar!" This was before GW had any kind of social media presence, so it was three months of complete radio silence with the setting completely dead. It got ugly. People were burning their armies on youtube. Even if Age of Sigmar had been great, they'd set the stage for a lot of people to be a lot of angry.

And damn. That's pretty harrowing. I wonder how the writers felt. Since I doubt they exactly wanted to burn their setting down.

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Apparently none of the writers for End Times knew anything about Age of Sigmar, the two writing teams were kept completely separate until the End Times was completely wrapped up and published. They'd just get glimpses of concept art and apparently had the general impression that there'd be a 'rising from the ashes' arc for each of the factions that'd generally transform and twist their cultures in strange and cool ways. They didn't realize it was going to be a complete blank slate situation.

 

[Ericwinter]

all save Imrik, who flew to his feet and demanded under what authority Tyrion dared speak so.

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Heh. You know, I misread this as fleet, not feet, and was about to ask how the heck Irmirk was as talking to Tyrion from a boat. Anywho, I am also disappointed with the way the scene as a whole was written. That's, like, perfect dramatic fodder, and they clearly weren't worried about the size of the book if it's 600 pages long.

The part that's easy to miss in hindsight is the three whole months between "the world ends" and "here's Age of Sigmar!" This was before GW had any kind of social media presence, so it was three months of complete radio silence with the setting completely dead. It got ugly. People were burning their armies on youtube. Even if Age of Sigmar had been great, they'd set the stage for a lot of people to be a lot of angry.



Apparently none of the writers for End Times knew anything about Age of Sigmar, the two writing teams were kept completely separate until the End Times was completely wrapped up and published. They'd just get glimpses of concept art and apparently had the general impression that there'd be a 'rising from the ashes' arc for each of the factions that'd generally transform and twist their cultures in strange and cool ways. They didn't realize it was going to be a complete blank slate situation.

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…Wow, and here I thought all the GW hate might be slightly overblown due to heavy levels of investment from fans meaning they care more about things—which isn't bad, by any means just harder to relate from a distant viewpoint—but that just sounds all sorts of dickish even to their own people.

 

[Boney]

…Wow, and here I thought all the GW hate might be slightly overblown due to heavy levels of investment from fans meaning they care more about things—which isn't bad, by any means just harder to relate from a distant viewpoint—but that just sounds all sorts of dickish even to their own people.

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I'm glad this thread is happening, because I think I come across as a bit overzealous when someone gets me started on Age of Sigmar and it can be hard for someone looking back at the big picture to understand why. A journey through the entire arc that Warhammer fans were taken on back then, beat by beat and blow by blow, might really help people understand where I'm coming from a lot better.