Yknow, I normally try not to go all "ha ha why didn't anyone just use a phoenix down on Aeris" but this dude held it together through a bunch of dialogue and three whole fights, then running upstairs to catch Ramza before he finally bit it, a good Cura probably woulda done him wonders.
I'm mostly wondering why Ramza is so distraught about this. Like, yes, Elder Simon seems like a nice old man, if a bit guilty of sticking his head in the sand, ostrich-style
But this guy got 1 whole line at the start of Chapter 2 and has since had 5 or 6 sandwiched in between a bunch of battle maps.
Yeah, where does the Evil Church trope come from, and why is it always Christian/Catholic coded? I vaguely remember reading something about corrupt Buddhist monks in Japanese history as a sort of root cause, but then why not Buddhist motifs?
I mean, speaking as a Catholic............history.
Yeah, I get tired of the trope popping up in what seems like every single JRPG too, but the Catholic church has done some shit to earn that backlash in pop culture. As for why not Buddhists, probably for the same reason Final Fantasy titles and other JRPGs have so much European coding - a combination of D&D influence, exoticism, and marketing to American/European markets.
This may also means that Simon wants to die here- he kept the Germonique Scriptures' secrets for so long that giving it away to someone he trusts means that his responsibility is done, and he can rest now.
Simon: This has been my burden for many years...forgive me, young man, for passing it to you. Ramza: I mean, I got my buddy Gillian right here, she's a medic- Simon: (clutching a holy hand grenade) no it's good
The thing about the Evil Catholic Church trope is that it gets kinda shitty when you realise that Japan tried to colonise The Philippines, a majority Catholic nation. Granted, they were also allied with a majority Catholic nation, Italy, at the same time.
I've heard Evil Catholic Churches in anime and jRPGs are supposed to be a reaction against the US, who to this day have a ton of army bases all across Japan... except the US is majority Protestant, not Catholic
The absolutely immense wealth and power that accrued to the Catholic Church throughout history really easily lends itself to both grandeur and being characterized as evil, greedy, venal, corrupt, etc.
... okay, I know you are mostly upset with the poorly place plot beats, but the difficulty scaling on display with this sequence of battles in a row is making me upset and I'm not even playing.
If you don't know to save in multiple spots and to grind a lot between battles this seems like it can very easily stick you in a situation where your only save cannot possibly clear the third of three mandatory fights.
Meaning that you would need to restart entirely in order to continue, and that is a classic case of old game problems big enough to frustrate me.
Well. There is a reason why we kept mentioning it. With that said. It is down to group composition - there are groups that would have had more trouble with that first fight than Omi.
Yeah, where does the Evil Church trope come from, and why is it always Christian/Catholic coded? I vaguely remember reading something about corrupt Buddhist monks in Japanese history as a sort of root cause, but then why not Buddhist motifs?
Maybe Amakusa's Shimabara Rebellion? AFAIK he's the Christian figure in Japanese history most often whacked with the Oda Nobunaga "Actually a demon from hell" bat. His last words being "I shall return after 100 years and take my revenge!" probably didn't help avoid that, though- really just set himself up to be a sealed evil in a can.
Yeah, where does the Evil Church trope come from, and why is it always Christian/Catholic coded? I vaguely remember reading something about corrupt Buddhist monks in Japanese history as a sort of root cause, but then why not Buddhist motifs?
Moon Channel put out an almost 2 hour video on the subject. Short version is Christian missionaries, using the Church as a stand in for westernization, the rebuilding and then subsequent destruction of state religion during WW1 & WW2, and a handful of other things.
Alma wants to follow Ramza into the vaults, but Ramza tells her that they can't just leave the wounded Simon alone, she needs to stay with him and find a place to hide until his return. Which is sensible enough, and is definitely at least half Ramza finding a sensible-enough reason to keep Alma from going with him in harm's way.
But then.
He gives. The two Zodiac Stones. To Alma.
Words cannot express how hard my eyes rolled out of my skull when I saw this. This is just - fuck me, this is stupid. It's the most telegraphed move in existence. There is zero chance we're getting those back. We have effectively already lost the Zodiac Stones the moment Ramza makes this decision, and the entire next bit of the story is just walking ourselves to the point where it actually happens.
And with this bit of dialogue, we finally have a name by which to call our enemies: the Knight Templars, or "Templarate." Good to know. This is our first time dealing with enemy Dragoons and they brought three of them. If they're even half as strong as Hadrian we're in for some trouble. (Turns out they aren't.)
Even equipment or levels or whatever aside, I suspect you wouldn't be seeing enemy dragoons with 8 Horizontal/Vertical like Hadrian has until endgame or something, would be a bit wild if this random map in Chapter 3 went "yeah these guys can just orbital bombard you."
A Doublehand spear attack against an enemy in casting stance (probably good zodiac compatibility too, though I didn't check) is 240 damage, killing the Chemist instantly. Meanwhile, Agrias's new Sword Skill, DIVINE RUINATION, is an 8-tile, straight-line shockwave-type attack which has a chance to inflict Confuse, which it does, turning one of the enemy Dragoons useless.
God I love No Chill Ramza. "You will have an offer of mercy and naught more" goes hard. A surprising amount of Ramza's lines do, compared to how low-key he was at the start of the game.
Ramza is just sick of everyone's shit at this point, and he's going to let them know it. He's come a long way from being the group Fencesitter who barely even knows what having a solid opinion is.
Isilud: "What nonsense is that? The only demon I see here stands before me! Was it not you who murdered the cardinal for the Stone he possessed? Not that he would have lived long gathering the Stones behind our backs as he was!"
Okay, that's really interesting. Isilud doesn't register as insincere in this exchange - he seems to genuinely be confused by what Ramza is spewing. And he also reveals that Delacroix was acting behind the Templars' backs - it's clear he was part of the conspiracy, but it seems like he conducted his own, personal conspiracy-within-the-conspiracy. Delacroix was deeply corrupt, and sought the Stones' power for himself, rather than the Templars' goals. Now, it's entirely possible and even likely that the upper echelons of the Templar conspiracy are some degree of self-interested or hypocritical, but at the very least they're selling a much better party line to lieutenants like Isilud, who appears to be a true believer.
And if they don't know the true nature of the Stones… Hm. Either the leadership knows, and are concealing the truth from the lower ranks, or they genuinely don't realize that the power they seek to gather is actually tainted and evil. Interesting!
Seems to me Isilud genuinely hasn't been read in on the real conspiracy behind the conspiracy... which is honestly kind of surprising considering his dad is apparently in charge of it. Sounds like the breadcrumbs of a future recruitment when he sees the face of evil himself, to me~
Mustadio, already again in critical HP after taking another Archer hit right after Raise, nonetheless picks off the Archer that Ramza cornered downstairs, then Agrias corners her own fleeing Archer and takes him down. At this point, Isilud is the only opponent remaining in the field, and we're free to focus on him, right after MUSTADIO GOES DOWN A FOURTH TIME
The true hero of the story at this point, you think Arazlam's notes have whole sections of Ramza's memoirs where he just goes "holy shit Hadrian is so cool, god we'd all have been dead if it weren't for him"?
I originally didn't mind this particular device, but it's starting to grate a little. I'm not the kind of reader who gets mad when protagonists fail to secure their kills, for the most part - I like recurring villains and am often sad when they die. But the cutscene teleport has turned from "shorthand for 'the antagonist escaped somehow'" into "magical power that activates at will to allow antagonists to survive as the plot requires." It's a crutch that is never explained diegetically and is not represented in the mechanics (we know Teleport is an actual ability one can learn, but it doesn't do that) and this is, what, the fifth time I watch an antagonist press the escape button and evade flawlessly while my characters just stand around and let them do it?
"And then the boss magically teleported away to safety" is right up there with "despite kicking the bosses ass the cutscene afterwards goes Nuh-uh and you lose" for obnoxious game tropes.
So, Wiegraf, whatever happened to "taking children hostage is beneath our honor"? How things change, huh?
Yeah, I think putting in the earlier cutscene was absolutely the correct move here. I don't know if it messes up the timeline or whatever, but it would be wild for Wiegraf to show up here with three lines of dialogue and no explanation, just Instant Holy Sword. Which, I'm sure, is why some like it, but like… I think you need more buildup for something like that.
Also, there is always something just inherently badass about a guy showing up and saying "Go ahead, I'll hold them back," and somehow it's more badass when it's one of the villains doing it, precisely because it's classically heroic behavior.
Hell yeah, Weigraf 2: Electric Boogaloo. I'm sure you can guess how this set of battles is another one of those "multiple saves or get fucked" moments for players back in the day, with three fights culminating in this shitshow. Gotta give it to Wiegraf, every time he shows up he's a deadly dangerous encounter, even if this time it didn't take half a dozen tries (probably because you have an actual close to end-builds party).
And going to have to agree it works much better with the extra cutscene from the end of Chapter 2, though I can see both ways working.
What we're running into here is totally just Modern Fire Emblem Enemy Problems ™️ where the story just... feels the need to keep bringing back the same villain time and time again, despite the fact you're playing in a game with permadeath. Once or Twice throughout the story? That's one thing, it's okay to have it happen occasionally, but the more times your enemies just go "Urghhhh I've been defeated!" and then run off into the night, the more obnoxious it starts to get for the player.
Wow! Turns out he's not just Some Guy, he is in fact the son of Lord Folmarv - you know, the guy who revealed to Ovelia that she was a fake princess? And this tab reveals to us something we have no way of knowing, that Folmarv is not in fact some high-ranking officer in the templarate conspiracy, but its boss! This is the big bad!
I suspect this would come up at some point in the main story itself, to be fair, with Folmarv being set up as the biggest bad so far at this rate.
Though also doesn't this mean the literal head of the entire Inquisition was slumming it back in Chapter 2 and ordering hits on Gafgarion and company from rando thieves while threatening them with Heresy if they asked for more pay? Bro, you probably could have slaughtered the party yourself what are you doing
The Church knew of the writings' existence, and feared their discovery. The Church actively worked to erase any records of Ajora's mortal identity in order to shape the narrative of him as a child of the gods empowered from his birth. The Church always knew it was founded on a lie, and suppressed that knowledge. The writings shattered Elder Simon's faith, yet he was afraid to come forward with them, be branded a heretic, and lose his precious library.
"My curiosity eclipsed my will to do what was right."
As they once did with Elder Simon, the writings of Germonique deal a fatal blow to Ramza's faith. He was never truly devout, but like many raised in a religious society, he had absorbed a default belief - he did not feel strongly about Ajora's sainthood, divinity, and great deeds, but he still took them to be true, as true as the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. Now, even that base assumption about the way of the world is taken from him.
But there is one caveat: Elder Simon failed to find an account of the demon Saint Ajora was said to have defeated in the Scriptures of Germonique, and so concluded even that story was false.
But Ramza knows better.
Ramza has seen what horrors can slip through the cracks in the world.
I can't believe Hadrian is the Estinien of this LP - he has no idea what's going on or who any of these people are and he has nothing particularly important to contribute to the conversation, but he has the air superiority of a peregrine falcon and the raw destructive capacity of a gorilla on bath salts.
Dragoon seems to be one hell of a drug. And yes, this is always the best part of games like this with permadeath and/or generic blorbos, when that one random nobody just somehow becomes your most reliable, awesomest party member who every strategy starts to rely on because holy shit do they go hard.
Look, enemies teleporting the fuck away right after they/their minions get clowned on is an absolute staple, and not just in the realm of video games. Consider how frequently it happens in Sailor Moon, for example.
You know a villain is serious about stuff when they use their bullshit teleportation offensively and shank people before they can react.
I mean, speaking as a Catholic............history.
Yeah, I get tired of the trope popping up in what seems like every single JRPG too, but the Catholic church has done some shit to earn that backlash in pop culture. As for why not Buddhists, probably for the same reason Final Fantasy titles and other JRPGs have so much European coding - a combination of D&D influence, exoticism, and marketing to American/European markets.
Also the Crusades, a fuckton of cultural appropriation and cultural erasure, accepting cash payments to "absolve sin" (Jesus would have been furious with that one), a bunch of brutal suppression of people who did things they didn't like including William Tyndale (translated the bible so people who didn't know Latin could read it), Jan Hus (claimed the Church was flawed because humans are flawed) and Galileio (should be obvious but unlike the other two he was lucky enough to NOT be burned alive), the Inquisition etc etc.
The Church has a dark and storied history as a political institution that's existed for basically the entirety of what most would consider "western civilization" with roots that spanned basically across the entirety of Europe's influence, and a lot of powerful, cruel and greedy men have seized its reins over the long years. Yeah no shit it's going to be evil, like basically every major political power inevitably is.
Listen, Catholics have the drip. Do you want your priest to look like this
or like this
Your only competition in Christendom is the Orthodox priests, and well, Catholics also have the bullshit. Crusades, pope on antipope violence, whatever the fuck was going on with the Medicis, Catholicism is perfect for the maximalist needs of dramatic story telling.
If it helps, remember that the framing device of the story is that a historian uncovered ancient documents that reveals the true history of the War of the Lions. The Durai Papers probably just say "and Ramza fought Isilud Tengille on the third level of Orbonne Monastery. Isilud escaped, but kidnapped Ramza's sister on his way out."
Arazalm doesn't know how Isilud escaped, and probably doesn't care, so the game just yadda yadda's the specifics so that it doesn't show him clipping through one of your blorbos if you managed to surround him on all sides when you defeat him.
I mean, I suppose they could just transition to a cutscene, but it seems a bit, I dunno, extraneous? It would be a lot more work than is really required. Maybe that's just me, though.
There's been enough time for rakes to accumulate, so let's have another round of:
THE RAKES OF FFT, spooky edition
Rake #41: The Queklain fight.
Status: You could say that he's a real 'Nightmare' to deal with
Rake #42: Keeping Orran alive.
Status: The fight itself isn't that bad (except for Steal Heart. That's ALWAYS dangerous), but keeping NPCs alive continues to be a PITA.
Rake #43: Hamedo, charm, and you
Status: Throw Stone continues its life as the unsung hero of FFT.
Rake #44: The Isilud fight.
Status: Dodged. Basically a mechanics check. If your team and understanding of how to play the game are solid, this is a fun and dramatic fight. If it's not…Isilud will give you a bad time.
Rake #45: Weigraf, Round 2.
Status: Dodged, surprisingly. The first Weigraf fight tests your ability to deal with a Holy Skill user before he completely demolishes you. This fight tests your ability to deal with a Holy Skill user after the deployment screen fucks you over with lousy positioning and giving Weigraf a freebie AOE to start things off. And sometimes Stop, because fuck you.
Classic historian problems for Arzalam. The primary source historical document (scripture of Germonique) you really want is lost to history and you have to piece its contents together from summary, quotes, and description in later historical documents (the Durai papers) which you hope to Ajora are describing the lost document accurately and that the folks you're reading ascertained it's authenticity as well as you would have.
I have to wonder...How much of Arzalam's research is unknown history? Like, does the average Ivalician of his age know the supernatural underpinnings of the War of the Lions and see it's combatants not just as a great temporal soldiers, but a heroic demon-slayer as well? Or is this the equivalent of an IRL historian releasing a documentary claiming that Charles the 1st was actually an evil demon controlling the Church of England and that Cromwell's childhood friend Steve was the REAL hero for slaying Prince Rupert with sick iaido draws after he turned into a giant dog-monster? Granted this isn't far off from what the Puritans actually believed, but you get what I mean.
The fact that Arzalam isn't getting magically tac-nuked the moment he starts digging into these things says that at the very least the Church's corruption is public knowledge enough for them to not longer hold as much political or cultural weight as they did when the Durai Papers were written. Of course, that could be anywhere from "the public knows it was run by a demonic conspiracy at some point" to "an Ivalici Henry VIII declared the local church independent and they don't mind their predecessors from abroad being portrayed as malevolent".
I have to wonder...How much of Arzalam's research is unknown history? Like, does the average Ivalician of his age know the supernatural underpinnings of the War of the Lions and see King Delita not just as a great temporal ruler, but a heroic demon-slayer as well? Or is this the equivalent of an IRL historian releasing a documentary claiming that Charles the 1st was actually an evil demon controlling the Church of England and that Cromwell's childhood friend Steve was the REAL hero for slaying Prince Rupert with sick iaido draws after he turned into a giant dog-monster? Granted this isn't far off from what the Puritans actually believed, but you get what I mean.
They do have magic though, albeit very diminished form of magic. White mages, time mages, etc. So having demons abound are not exactly surprising, when random summoners can call in freaking Ifrit onto other people.
Real world doesn't have magic.
I think about that Alma scene more, and the more I feel like the writers fumbled hard on that scene. Like, let's be real here Ramza.
Does Alma even knows how to ride a Chocobo?
He wants her to run, and take the stones with her. Run where? Dorter is the only connecting town to Orbonne, and the girl has never been to anywhere without heavy escorts. Burgoss Sea is accessible via the ports, except she has never been to port cities as far as we know of. She's not a fighter, she has the bearings and looks of a noble girl and she can't escape monster attacks with just a Chocobo.
The Stones are in every way here safer to be with Ramza instead of Alma. Wiegraf could have ransomed the Stones via exchanging the girl for the auracites. That's the most logical writing here. They can write that the ransom exchange failed because Wiegraf is a lying bitch and tricked Ramza by bagging both the girl and the stones with Izlude, basically blocking Ramza's access to his sister with himself, getting his vengeance. And yet, we got this.
Like, that's super fucking hard fumble there FFT devs.
Would it be "better" if instead of teleporting away, they just knocked all your dudes back and inflicted "down for the count" on them so they could walk out of the room to escape? 🤔
Yeah, where does the Evil Church trope come from, and why is it always Christian/Catholic coded? I vaguely remember reading something about corrupt Buddhist monks in Japanese history as a sort of root cause, but then why not Buddhist motifs?
I always thought it came from all the stuff the Catholic Church has done in history, but I now realize I was technically jumping to conclusions, albeit reasonable ones.
hmm... @Omicron Should I wait until you actually use an ability/spell before posting the chant? Because I think you mentioned you also have all of Agrias' holy sword skills as well.
