Oh man that's a game I never want to think about again. Was so excited coming off of FFT into... That
Let's Play Every Final Fantasy Game In Order Of Release [Now Finished: Final Fantasy Tactics]
- Thread starter Omicron
- Start date
- Let's Play
The awkward thing is those overlap in the original language. 勇者/Yūsha is translated both as "brave [person]" and "hero". I largely agree with the rest of the post, just wanted to toss that context in.
I feel like there's zero point in even telling Omi about this other than as a hilarious side tidbit when he reaches the point the weapon would be in? He's here to analyze the game, there's genuinely no chance in hell he's going to speedrun it on his first full playthrough.
Not to mention it's kinda spoilery to mention at all.
Not to mention it's kinda spoilery to mention at all.
Zap Rowsdower
Ex-cultist vagrant
- Location
- Bright lights, big city
- Pronouns
- He/Him
You know? Fair. *slaps self lightly*
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Absolutely -- I'm partial to Robo's, for example -- but I said FFT's title theme
Lord Chimera
Primordial Split Personality Disorder Dark God
When I played Vagrant Story the first time after finishing PS1 FFT, I slowly noticed some references from the latter in the former.
Just in case:
The opening text is by AJ Durai and it sounds more grim or cynical.
Items referring to Agrias, Delita and Ultima/Altema.
Plus the mention of mages as common as sellswords/mercs in the past.
It's a shame they didn't harmonize the timelines.
Just in case:
The opening text is by AJ Durai and it sounds more grim or cynical.
Items referring to Agrias, Delita and Ultima/Altema.
Plus the mention of mages as common as sellswords/mercs in the past.
It's a shame they didn't harmonize the timelines.
Please stand in the spot and don't move while I load up gold bars in my cannon.
Zap Rowsdower
Ex-cultist vagrant
- Location
- Bright lights, big city
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'm no stranger to liking that theme, but you know the thread rules regarding games he hasn't finished yet (even if he's not actually LPing them), and so do I
Iconoclast. By the end there aren't many symbols of his world order that he hasn't smashed.
FunkyEntropy
Occasionally insightful, possibly grumpy
- Location
- Los Angeles
I spent a solid year cycling between the two CDs of the FFT OST in my car so I could buzz along as a form of practice while I was stuck in traffic.This is why, if Omi decides to play CT and talk about it, I am intrigued about what impact the soundtrack might make
(FWIW I have occasionally left the FFT title music on for an hour while I post on SV or whatever, so I might be a bit weird in another direction)
Battle on the Bridge is 100% the reason why I no longer suck at double tonguing. The running 16ths in the strings are mercilessly fast and I had to git gud with both my articulation and breath control. Also, the track has lot of wide intervals which is great for target practice.
Female Black Mage with Iaido, Arcane Strength, and Teleport. There's nothing quite like teleporting into an enemy formation and deleting them with an attack that does half again their max life. Cid? Who's that?
- Pronouns
- They/Them/She/Her
Probably the other way around, if anything, actually:Egleris said:
Byblos - Wikipedia
Eh, different people have different preferences and abilities and such.Omicron said:
For instance, I continue to find your love for the gameplay of FFT somewhat baffling on an emotional level, even if on an intellectual level I think I can understand it and emotionally am happy you've had such a good time with it; the gameplay here is just so off-target for me.
Fortunately, we don't have to all be exactly the same to value each other and get along.
Thank you for writing.
chibipoe
May I tell you of the glory that is Catradora?
- Location
- Astoria, Oregon
Hehehehe. Unless it's a chocobo cannon, that ain't gonna work.
Bonus idea: Louise summons COUNT CIDOLFUS ORLANDEAU from the XIV raid, complete with going 100% hard every time he speaks. THE HEARTS OF MEN ARE BLACK WITH CORRUPTION AND MUST NEEDS BE CLEANSED! Louise: I just need to do my homework!
Cid: I CALL OUT TO THE SKIES AN-
Louise: ;_;
FunkyEntropy
Occasionally insightful, possibly grumpy
- Location
- Los Angeles
Y'know, I know this combo exists but I never bother putting it into practice because I like dropping meteors on the opposition too much.
I imagine one of the fun things about the BM Samurai (aside from blowing up the opposition) is there's probably a bit of leeway in what you stick in the accessory slot.
Chantage for safety.
Germinas Boots for even more mobility (and reducing the error rate on teleport, which I've never been fond of).
Magepower Gloves for even more damage.
On the Ramza base class thing:
Well, we know that FFT isn't shy about characters having classes that mush multiple other classes abilities together (plus some extras), so why not give Ramza a base class that combines Squire and Chemist, plus some extras?
It'd mean that players would have access to a wide array of classes earlier with Ramza, and meshes with Ramza having both male and female stat bonuses.
Well, we know that FFT isn't shy about characters having classes that mush multiple other classes abilities together (plus some extras), so why not give Ramza a base class that combines Squire and Chemist, plus some extras?
It'd mean that players would have access to a wide array of classes earlier with Ramza, and meshes with Ramza having both male and female stat bonuses.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
It's unfortunately a confluence of these two factors that the writers can't have other characters do anything in the narrative once they join your party. Once a character joins your party for real, they can also die for real. If they can die for real - and the game not immediately end - Then it's a possibility that writers may end up writing themselves into a corner when a character shows up in a cutscene except they've already died.
A case of gameplay and story.. sort-of integration, I suppose. They sidestep this potential issue by simply not writing those characters in. This is why the antagonists have so much more character to them.
Congratulations!
The plot of FFT is... interesting. As many have commented, this is the first time an FF game really sticks with mundane struggles to their bloody conclusion rather than abandoning them after the first act.
This is both a strength and a weakness. It allows the game to go where no FF game before went, explore raw ideas that before were at best talked about in metaphors of god-killing. Delita's last haunting scene is a particular testament to this.
But, in the end, the paths of mundane strife and supernatural theeat do deverge. You follow the Lucavi into the necrohole, whatever that is, and have the final fight on a decayed ancient ship, no nobles or clergy in sight.
And the final confrontation happens late enough that it doesn't leave the Lucavi time to build themselves up as deserving antagonists. They work as a contrast and a logical end point of squabbling nobles and power-hungry church, but on their own they're not that impressive.
In that context, the lack of Delita in the final stretch of the journey is particularly notable. The last couple of updates were characterized by me going, "Where's Delita? When's Delita gonna show up?" I was sure the two plot threads would converge, and we'll have a fight with/against Delita fir the last time, resolving the threat of Lucavi while he ascends the throne.
(He's upgraded from Holy Knight to Arc Knight, according to wiki, you know.)
But no, in the end the two plots are left to conclude on their own, connected only on the meta level, and, well, frankly, for all that "Delita won by doing nothing" meme is kinda accurate, the conclusion to his story is just better than Ramza's in that it's capable of standing on its own. For all that Ramza is the protagonist, he's more of a foil to Delita than the reverse, a representation of a path not trodden rather than a fully realized character with a satisfying story of his own.
I do genuinely think the game would've been better if we'd alternated between following Ramza and Delita, each with their own band of blorbos and plenty of fights. No wonder WotL added not one but two fights where you control Delita. It's an obvious if inadequate addition.
Though, of course, I understand that crafting two bespoke scenarios was probably not feasible. So possibly we should just have followed Delita.
Anyway, looking firward to you tackling the next installment of Final Fantasy: Tactics Ogre.
The plot of FFT is... interesting. As many have commented, this is the first time an FF game really sticks with mundane struggles to their bloody conclusion rather than abandoning them after the first act.
This is both a strength and a weakness. It allows the game to go where no FF game before went, explore raw ideas that before were at best talked about in metaphors of god-killing. Delita's last haunting scene is a particular testament to this.
But, in the end, the paths of mundane strife and supernatural theeat do deverge. You follow the Lucavi into the necrohole, whatever that is, and have the final fight on a decayed ancient ship, no nobles or clergy in sight.
And the final confrontation happens late enough that it doesn't leave the Lucavi time to build themselves up as deserving antagonists. They work as a contrast and a logical end point of squabbling nobles and power-hungry church, but on their own they're not that impressive.
In that context, the lack of Delita in the final stretch of the journey is particularly notable. The last couple of updates were characterized by me going, "Where's Delita? When's Delita gonna show up?" I was sure the two plot threads would converge, and we'll have a fight with/against Delita fir the last time, resolving the threat of Lucavi while he ascends the throne.
(He's upgraded from Holy Knight to Arc Knight, according to wiki, you know.)
But no, in the end the two plots are left to conclude on their own, connected only on the meta level, and, well, frankly, for all that "Delita won by doing nothing" meme is kinda accurate, the conclusion to his story is just better than Ramza's in that it's capable of standing on its own. For all that Ramza is the protagonist, he's more of a foil to Delita than the reverse, a representation of a path not trodden rather than a fully realized character with a satisfying story of his own.
I do genuinely think the game would've been better if we'd alternated between following Ramza and Delita, each with their own band of blorbos and plenty of fights. No wonder WotL added not one but two fights where you control Delita. It's an obvious if inadequate addition.
Though, of course, I understand that crafting two bespoke scenarios was probably not feasible. So possibly we should just have followed Delita.
Anyway, looking firward to you tackling the next installment of Final Fantasy: Tactics Ogre.
- Location
- Northern Virginia
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That was actually the original idea, but they couldn't do that.
Untrue, Fallout 2 goes out of its way to make you aware that Myron (a sexual predator jackass that invented jet, but still a potential party member) is definitely dead by being stabbed for drug money, if he's not dead already and you met him.
Harold and Markus also get a unvarying ending slide of their continuing adventure (ghouls and supermutants are long lived).
Sure it's not exactly as high effort as the location endings, but it's there, sort of, for a very few of them. The team that would become Troika didn't really go all in character endings until Temple of Elemental Evil\Arcanum.
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FunkyEntropy
Occasionally insightful, possibly grumpy
- Location
- Los Angeles
Hrm, random thought: just how much of the plot is a result of Dycedarg engaging in patricide?
If Barbaneth isn't dying, would the Corpse Brigade even exist? Like, Barbanth is a kickass fighter but what Simon and Orlandu mention most is that he was a really outstanding dude. Would his strong sense of justice have allowed him to stand by while commoners who fought, bled and died for the crown, commoners who served along side him, got completely screwed over?
I don't think he would have.
Which means the Corpse Brigade is much weaker or doesn't exist.
Which means Tietra probably doesn't die.
Which means Delita and Ramza don't have their Chapter 2 motivations.
Lions War...maybe happens? When the king dies there will still be a power struggle but that might not play out the same, and with both Barbaneth and Orlandu alive they can both act to cool things down. Delita isn't in position to manipulate things and Ramza to just derail everyone else's plotting.
Lucavi...who the fuck knows. Less chaos for them to take advantage of, so they might take a more hands on approach.
If Barbaneth isn't dying, would the Corpse Brigade even exist? Like, Barbanth is a kickass fighter but what Simon and Orlandu mention most is that he was a really outstanding dude. Would his strong sense of justice have allowed him to stand by while commoners who fought, bled and died for the crown, commoners who served along side him, got completely screwed over?
I don't think he would have.
Which means the Corpse Brigade is much weaker or doesn't exist.
Which means Tietra probably doesn't die.
Which means Delita and Ramza don't have their Chapter 2 motivations.
Lions War...maybe happens? When the king dies there will still be a power struggle but that might not play out the same, and with both Barbaneth and Orlandu alive they can both act to cool things down. Delita isn't in position to manipulate things and Ramza to just derail everyone else's plotting.
Lucavi...who the fuck knows. Less chaos for them to take advantage of, so they might take a more hands on approach.
Probably the other way around, if anything, actually:
Byblos - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Eh, different people have different preferences and abilities and such.
For instance, I continue to find your love for the gameplay of FFT somewhat baffling on an emotional level, even if on an intellectual level I think I can understand it and emotionally am happy you've had such a good time with it; the gameplay here is just so off-target for me.
Out of curiosity, and truly only meant as an innocent question, have you played many squad level turned based tactics games of this sort? A casual look didn't turn up much but I am on my phone and it is terribly awkward.
'cause, like, for them that do FFT seems to generally be considered The Good Stuff, aside from people who prefer everything be more XCOM-y (or similar divergent paths). Omi's opinion isn't all that out there.
But there are many people who find the whole "whacky chess game" style of game befuddling, so that'd be very understandable.
While the time pressure of "gotta finish the fight before my blorbos die forever" has been praised for giving fights exciting tension, I can't help but feel that just getting a gameover whenever anyone died instead of just Ramza would give the same feeling. Especially since people inevitably reset so as to not lose out of dozens of hours of work for each character.
AKuz
Been Better
- Location
- A Rising Tide of Horrors
- Pronouns
- She/Her
yeah, I can't think of a single game with blorbo perma-death where I haven't just reset the game
even in games that don't have a mechanism to let you stop and reset, there's always "physically shut off the power, and eat the time it takes to get back to where you were"
even in games that don't have a mechanism to let you stop and reset, there's always "physically shut off the power, and eat the time it takes to get back to where you were"
Egleris
Vagrant Dragon
- Location
- Italy
There are people who play FFT by letting their generics die permanently, especially in chapter 1; there's let's play out there who show it. I find those physically painful to watch, but some people do play that way, and given that, should that style of play really be made impossible? It adds diversity to the gameplay experience, after all.
Honestly, the only problem I have with the permadeath system is that it is used as a poor justification for why the named team-members like Agrias and Rapha don't get extra plot scenes, and when you consider that they were clearly able to have conditional scenes dependent on your party members at specified location after specific plot events - as all the sidequests in Goug don't happen if you don't have Mustadio in your team, and they're both location and event based - it's clear that they could have had those scenes even with permadeath.
They'd just have the game check the team for the character and, if the character is part of the team, you have scene X play when you land on a certain location after a certain plot event, otherwise the scene doesn't happen. So... permadeath isn't the reason they didn't include that kind of scene; if a real reason exist, it likely was lack of developing time, which in the end is always the reason whenever a good game is missing some feature that anybody who plays it thinks should be there.
Honestly, the only problem I have with the permadeath system is that it is used as a poor justification for why the named team-members like Agrias and Rapha don't get extra plot scenes, and when you consider that they were clearly able to have conditional scenes dependent on your party members at specified location after specific plot events - as all the sidequests in Goug don't happen if you don't have Mustadio in your team, and they're both location and event based - it's clear that they could have had those scenes even with permadeath.
They'd just have the game check the team for the character and, if the character is part of the team, you have scene X play when you land on a certain location after a certain plot event, otherwise the scene doesn't happen. So... permadeath isn't the reason they didn't include that kind of scene; if a real reason exist, it likely was lack of developing time, which in the end is always the reason whenever a good game is missing some feature that anybody who plays it thinks should be there.
I've done Ironman playthroughs of Fire Emblem games before, and it does absolutely change the way you play to be fair. When you know you won't just reset and eat the time loss on character deaths, it can result in everything from playing even more cautiously (trying to never ever even risk the possibility of death, always assuming the worst possible RNG) to accepting that characters can and will die, so you're more willing to outright sack a unit for a strategic advantage. That, and it can be kind of fun, the panicked scramble to adjust your entire strategy and slot in new party members when someone important goes down (and depending on the FE game, taking their entire inventory - possibly including one of a kind or plot important items! - with them).
But that said, once again it's something that works a lot less well with FFT, because of how the class system builds individual character momentum and uniqueness.
But that said, once again it's something that works a lot less well with FFT, because of how the class system builds individual character momentum and uniqueness.
- Pronouns
- They/Them/She/Her
IIRC, the closest I've come is some of the first mission of Fallout Tactics; I don't think I even got to the end of the first mission.AliasiSudonomo said:
I'm not sure about "befuddling" -- though, indeed, I don't seem to be very good at it, nor am I very good at basic actual chess -- so much as not fun. Actively so, in theory and admittedly a pretty small sample size of practice. Even if I could figure things given sufficient motivation, that motivation isn't there. Granted, thinking on it now, the initial hill probably is higher due to the befuddling aspect, but my impression is that that just increases the degree to which my level of interest is insufficient to proceed.
...I do wonder how much Master of Orion II might count here, though, now I'm thinking of it? Like, my primary approach there is just mass drivers/gauss cannons/disruptors, fixed-forward heavy mount, with a bunch of special systems from creative to blow most enemy fleets out of the sky before they can make a move. But sometimes in the course of a game my primary species will need to do something else along the way, and I've also commonly run a secondary species in a hotseat game with myself with different approaches that sometimes work and sometimes don't. Hm. Well, perhaps that's an exception, and still not all that much of one; the level of complexity of the "chess pieces" is much lower, for one, there's a lot of the game outside of battles...