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Let's Play Every Final Fantasy Game In Order Of Release [Now Finished: Final Fantasy Tactics]

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Parzival said:
Which Tactics Ogre version tho? Because there are 3, all with gameplay and content differences.
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A very divisive topic in some circles lol. The main decision is probably between the PSP version (LuCT) and Reborn, though the PSP version also has an overhaul mod called One Vision that I know some people swear by, even if I've never played it myself.

I'd always recommend Reborn myself; the QoL it adds is just too huge for me to go back to LuCT, even if there some Reborn mechanics I'm pretty lukewarm on; the card buff system, mostly. Crafting in LuCT for example, was pure tediousness; it has a fixed failure rate, and you can't attempt to create items in batches meaning you have to make them one by one, even for base ingredients. And some recipes require quite a lot of ingredients, which all add up to just be pure awful.

LuCT also had a weird levelling system where it was classes that levelled rather than characters, which seems interesting until you get access to a cool unique class in the late game and realise you would have to grind it 30 levels to actually use it. Reborn goes back to individual characters having levels instead, which I much prefer. I also prefer the class balance of Reborn; in LuCT there wasn't much of that, the optimal party for most of the game would be to run a squad of just Archers and Ninjas, they were so much better than the other classes. Reborn did a lot to make some stinker classes actually pretty good; the standout for me being the Terror Knight. In LuCT it was really bad, by virtue of having one of the lowest turn orders in the game with only mediocre dark magic and debuffs to make up for it, while in Reborn they really excel as can openers for tough enemies; they can absolutely destroy an enemies attack and defence, turning what would be a very difficult encounter into something much more manageable.

On the other hand, Reborn limits the amounts of active abilities a unit could have from 10 in LuCT to 4. It's not qite so bad as it sounds cause stuff like Jump and Move+2 being changed to innately part if gear instead of taking up an ability slot, but I understand why some would see it as a step down in build variety.

Of course these are only a few of the differences and you may have already noticed I'm a bit biased, so it's always best to check these things out yourself if you want to decide between them! Its a great game either way, and something I'd strongly recommend to anyone interested n tactics games.
 
Omicron said:
It's noteworthy that not a single character who appears on-screen is stated to be married. The only married characters are the King and Queen Louveria who are entirely off-screen presences.
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Final Fantasy Tactics was one half-decent Support system away from being the spawning ground of a thousand shippers.

Bonus points for when people inevitably paired up their generic, personalityless blorbos.
 
I find enough Meliadoul/Ramza fics the first time I searched for FFT fanfiction to the point that I was wondering if people actually use Meliadoul in battles when you have someone like TG Cid around. Leveling her up is hard enough when she arrived late to the party, and then have armor-rending specialty when we barely meet armored opponents outside of plot-related battles- that was about 95% finished by the time she was here. Final battles have more monsters than men too, simply because we were fighting Lucavi instead of human characters.

I get Agrias being shipped, she has been with Ramza for a while.

But Meliadoul Tengille? The only similarity she has with Ramza is age.

I get the shipping tags is indiscriminate, but I thought people would go for Ovelia over Meliadoul in creating relationships for the protagonist.
 
Marla said:
But Meliadoul Tengille? The only similarity she has with Ramza is age.
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Meliadoul learning that her father is actually a Lucavi has obvious parrallels to Ramza learning that his brothers are evil and can serve as an easy foundation for a simple hurt/comfort fic.

Of course, if RamzaXDelita isn't one of the most popular ships I will consider it a failure on part of the game. I mean come on, they are childhood friends turned enemies turned allies(?) who were shunted into completely different yet still parallel directions by a singular event.

This shit ought to be catnip to shippers!
 
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That was a real seat-of-your-pants ending to a fraught battle, well done beating down Adrammelech so fast.

And it really is poetic that Dycedarg, faced with his righteous brother, with few if any allies left, with the threat of Zalbaags sword right in front of him... Turns 180 degrees and just blasts the shit out of Mustadio. At this point I can't even feel sorry for him, it's peak comedy.
 
Omicron said:
It's noteworthy that not a single character who appears on-screen is stated to be married. The only married characters are the King and Queen Louveria who are entirely off-screen presences.

Barbaneth's first wife and his consort both appeared to have died before he did. Zalbaag and Dycedarg are both seemingly bachelors. Mustadio has a father who is seen several times, but his mother is never mentioned. Agrias may or may not be celibate. Neither Duke Larg nor Duke Goltanna are ever mentioned to have wives or children (which is noteworthy in both cases as their children would be poised to take their father's titles after their untimely deaths). Cidolfus Orlandeau has an adopted son. Rapha and Marach's parents are long dead and they were adopted by Grand Duke Barrington, who appears to have no trueborn children. Folmarv has two children, but he has been a Lucavi for an indeterminate but likely extended period of time and if his wife was alive, he likely disposed of her for being too close to him once the possession fully took hold and he started behaving unlike his normal self. Neither of his children is married. Elmdore has no known wife or children. Cardinal Delacroix is a priest, as are Confessor Zalmour, Elder Simon and High Confessor Marcel. Wiegraf and Milleuda were renegades, and neither appear to have taken a spouse on the run with them.

Beowulf and Reis are canonically an item, but they are only fiancés at this stage, not husband and wife. Delita appears to be angling to marry Ovelia, but that hasn't happened yet.

It's genuinely kind of striking, in a story at least partly about medieval politics, that not a single character has a spouse. Of course, economy of writing/character cast explains it to an extent, but not one? Really? Not even an incidental scene of Duke Larg's wife asking if he's going to stay up with Dycedarg conspiring, or something?
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You know, this kind of reminds me of how there are (at least two) stories on SV where men just literally don't exist as a matter of worldbuilding and how that usually takes me dozens of chapters to realize.
Maybe Ivalice just works by parthenogenesis? Or an officially sanctified storch delivers babies and the church has been stingy with noble kids to prepare for their takeover.
 
Broccoliccoli said:
You know, this kind of reminds me of how there are (at least two) stories on SV where men just literally don't exist as a matter of worldbuilding and how that usually takes me dozens of chapters to realize.
Maybe Ivalice just works by parthenogenesis? Or an officially sanctified storch delivers babies and the church has been stingy with noble kids to prepare for their takeover.
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We do know for a fact that monsters lay eggs without partners. Perhaps humans do as well, and families are a matter of social arrangement that has little to nothing to do with procreation.
 
Garaichu said:
And it really is poetic that Dycedarg, faced with his righteous brother, with few if any allies left, with the threat of Zalbaags sword right in front of him... Turns 180 degrees and just blasts the shit out of Mustadio. At this point I can't even feel sorry for him, it's peak comedy.
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It is somewhat interesting that even in the face of death Dycedarg didn't strike out at his brother. Sure the knights did, but until the demon took over, Dycedarg himself chose to strike others rather then his own brother(s), even after one stabbed him in the face, twice.
 
Marla said:
But Meliadoul Tengille? The only similarity she has with Ramza is age.
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Meliadoul has an excellent sprite, is female, and joins the party. Of the remaining female party members, Rapha is useless, Reis has a fiance, and Agrias already has a canonical suitor in Mustadio.

Plus there are fun story hooks that writers can use with her - her grief over her brother being murdered and her father being a monster foremost among them - so there are reasons to use her beyond the ever present fanfiction urge of mashing your dolls together to make them smooch.
 
foamy said:
Archer would be plenty usable if the weapons were stronger. Crossbows are awkward but Bows feel very good -- they just don't scale the way swords or spears do.
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I mean, having Aim be a useful ability surely would help make Archer more usable, wouldn't it? But yes, I agree, bows would also need to scale a bit better as the game progresses. LFT does that too, in addition to making Aim useful by reducing charge times - both Bows and Crossbow are improved, and Equip Crossbow is changed to Equip Bow to make these better ranged options available to more classes.

The Longbow is available from when you first visit Eagrose instead of having to wait until after Sand Rat, meaning you start with archers able to use bows; also, the Silver Bow is moved from chapter 1 to chapter 4 and has its attack increased to 10 WP, making it the best bow you can buy.

The three rare bows (those you cannot buy) all got improved - the Yoichi still has WP 12 but is now Earth elemental, which means it can be boosted and also is something no other weapon in the game has, the Artemis Bow has WP increased from 10 to 14 and can also randomly cast Ultima for extra damage (similar to the Ice Brand's "cast Blizzara" effect), and the Perseus Bow, while remaining 16 WP, now also has Autohaste and move +1, making it a proper "ultimate weapon". They're all much easier to find, can all be poached (though the Perseus is on the Hydra, so you still need to wait for Chapter 4 to get it), and most Chapter 4 Archers have the Artemis Bow equipped so you can steal it.

As for crossbows, the Knightslayer went from 3 WP to 5 WP, the Crossbow went from 4 WP to 7 WP and now also inflicts Silence, the Poison Bow was raised to 8 WP, the Hunting bow has 9 WP and also inflicts Sleep, and the Gastrafitis has 11 WP and inflicts Don't Move, which makes it a pretty solid weapon for archers especially (inflict Don't Move > can land higher charges) and, since it can be poached, you could in theory have it at the start of chapter 3 when the Fur Shops open, if you're willing to hunt down the right enemy.

Again, as I said before, it's hard to point out all of the changes LFT made, because they're all interwoven with each other - I'd said that the Archer class had its skillset improved (enough so that now Aim is a great secondary option for physical classes like Ninja), but I forgot to mention the bows and crossbow being improved; they're not the only improved equipment either, a lot of the equipment was streamlined to present the players with more options and less automatic choices. Basically, it's pretty likely that, if you can think of something that didn't work properly in the original version of the game, they fixed it in some manner.
 
Egleris said:
I mean, having Aim be a useful ability surely would help make Archer more usable, wouldn't it? But yes, I agree, bows would also need to scale a bit better as the game progresses. LFT does that too, in addition to making Aim useful by reducing charge times - both Bows and Crossbow are improved, and Equip Crossbow is changed to Equip Bow to make these better ranged options available to more classes.

The Longbow is available from when you first visit Eagrose instead of having to wait until after Sand Rat, meaning you start with archers able to use bows; also, the Silver Bow is moved from chapter 1 to chapter 4 and has its attack increased to 10 WP, making it the best bow you can buy.

The three rare bows (those you cannot buy) all got improved - the Yoichi still has WP 12 but is now Earth elemental, which means it can be boosted and also is something no other weapon in the game has, the Artemis Bow has WP increased from 10 to 14 and can also randomly cast Ultima for extra damage (similar to the Ice Brand's "cast Blizzara" effect), and the Perseus Bow, while remaining 16 WP, now also has Autohaste and move +1, making it a proper "ultimate weapon". They're all much easier to find, can all be poached (though the Perseus is on the Hydra, so you still need to wait for Chapter 4 to get it), and most Chapter 4 Archers have the Artemis Bow equipped so you can steal it.

As for crossbows, the Knightslayer went from 3 WP to 5 WP, the Crossbow went from 4 WP to 7 WP and now also inflicts Silence, the Poison Bow was raised to 8 WP, the Hunting bow has 9 WP and also inflicts Sleep, and the Gastrafitis has 11 WP and inflicts Don't Move, which makes it a pretty solid weapon for archers especially (inflict Don't Move > can land higher charges) and, since it can be poached, you could in theory have it at the start of chapter 3 when the Fur Shops open, if you're willing to hunt down the right enemy.

Again, as I said before, it's hard to point out all of the changes LFT made, because they're all interwoven with each other - I'd said that the Archer class had its skillset improved (enough so that now Aim is a great secondary option for physical classes like Ninja), but I forgot to mention the bows and crossbow being improved; they're not the only improved equipment either, a lot of the equipment was streamlined to present the players with more options and less automatic choices. Basically, it's pretty likely that, if you can think of something that didn't work properly in the original version of the game, they fixed it in some manner.
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WOTL adds better bows, the problems are basically twofold, the speed scaling bows get isnt usable on archers, they get the same speed scaling as everyone else even tho ninja get the crazy one. Second aim is not a good skill for reason many have brought up. Fix either and the class would be much better fix both and its probably quite strong. Bows are a good weapon for the one characters who can use them without archer but he's the exception that proves the rule.
 
Egleris said:
I mean, having Aim be a useful ability surely would help make Archer more usable, wouldn't it?
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I mean yeah, but I think it's gilding the lily. Raw ranged damage with the basic attack command is more than sufficient given how quick and simple it makes focus-firing and the fact that an archer in good position can outrange almost anything. The problem is that the highest WP bow you are guaranteed to have available has a WP of 8. For Katanas that number is 15, for Knives it is 10, for Polearms it's 12, for Swords it is 14... You get the drift. And of course Knight Swords make basically everything else look like chumps.
 
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foamy said:
You get the drift.
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I do, which is why I pointed out LFT fixed that issue by strengthening late game bows and all crossbows. But the Archer being valuable on its own is also important, otherwise you get the Calculator problem of never using the class itself, and Aim being a useful ability is also important, because it gives other classes an extra option to consider when deciding skillsets (thus opening more viable builds for the player) as well as making Archer itself as a class more competent. That's the issue of interlocking modification, once you change more than one thing the changes affect each other, and the result is more than the sum of its parts.
 
Omicron said:
I mean this in the nicest way possible but please don't post AI-generated images in my thread, thank you.
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Ah, sure, I'll abstain from such in future. Thought it would be a nice gesture when you were musing on vampire Agnes, but I guess the use of AI... uh, anything really is controversial nowadays. I'll remove the image.
 
Egleris said:
The three rare bows (those you cannot buy) all got improved - the Yoichi still has WP 12 but is now Earth elemental, which means it can be boosted and also is something no other weapon in the game has, the Artemis Bow has WP increased from 10 to 14 and can also randomly cast Ultima for extra damage (similar to the Ice Brand's "cast Blizzara" effect), and the Perseus Bow, while remaining 16 WP, now also has Autohaste and move +1, making it a proper "ultimate weapon". They're all much easier to find, can all be poached (though the Perseus is on the Hydra, so you still need to wait for Chapter 4 to get it), and most Chapter 4 Archers have the Artemis Bow equipped so you can steal it.
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I'm sorry in what way is "every archer in chapter four has a random chance of casting ultima" an improvement to the game or class?
 
Maugan Ra said:
"every archer in chapter four has a random chance of casting ultima"
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It makes archers dangerous rather than not a threat since, as mentioned, they'd otherwise have no damage due to being locked on 8 WP bows.

Note also that, in vanilla, Knights wielding Ice Brands already have a chance of randomly casting Blizzara, and Ice Brand is the most popular sword in Chapter 4; also, chapter 2 Bows in vanilla have a random chance of casting Blizzard and Thundara, depending on the archer. This is not a new thing LFT added, it's just an aspect of dealing with enemies having weapons which can cast spells on strike that was already in the game, it's just being applied to a late-game bow so that it is a weapon worth using.

LFT diversifies classes, too - instead of always facing only Knights, Archers and Black Mages, there's a lot of battles where you face Geomancers, or Dragoons, or Oracles, or Mediators, as well as a handful extra Samurai and Ninja - there's even one or two story battles with the occasional Bard or Dancer. You still face Archers, but not as many, and when you do face them, they're just as much of a threat as other units, instead of being easy to ignore. But you're facing them with better Archers of your own, so it's just fair.
 
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I'm sorry but I think when you put the spell which (however mid in actual quality it is) in the base game is Ramza's last exclusive skill that he's the only playable unit to learn and which must be learned from the special breed of demons which are named after it and are the only ones that can cast it, on a generic bow that any Archer can equip and which enemies can use, you've kind of lost the plot.
 
Omicron said:
I'm sorry but I think when you put the spell which (however mid in actual quality it is) in the base game is Ramza's last exclusive skill that he's the only playable unit to learn and which must be learned from the special breed of demons which are named after it and are the only ones that can cast it, on a generic bow that any Archer can equip and which enemies can use, you've kind of lost the plot.
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Ultima aint even exclusive to Ramza his in fact Luso can learn it in chapter 3!
 
Egleris said:
Again, as I said before, it's hard to point out all of the changes LFT made, because they're all interwoven with each other
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This statement kind of inherently takes any mod out of the 'straightforward uncontroversial improvement' category.

It might be an unambiguous improvement (if the original game sucks) but the exercise has turned into redesigning the game rather than patching an annoying bug, and questions of design are always going to be designer dependent. There's almost never one clear way to fix a systemic issue and that's more true the more factors are being considered.
 
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