Meanwhile Ramza seems to have decided that whatever business the We're Secretly Demon Guys are getting up to, stopping them from opening a portal to Hell or whatever, fighting that is his urgent and highest priority; that's what he can fix with his buddies and their half-dozen swords, and he's kind of trying to opt out of the whole Civil War because, like, what can he do about it.
Depends if he picks the right movement ability for the map (is the map vertical, or horizontal today?)
What I learned after buying Teleport for some of my guys is that 'teleport however far you want, with a rising 10% chance of failure if done over your movement rate' is pretty bad when your guy (Teleporting Punch-Assassin Monk Ramza) has a movement rate of 3.
On the other hand, she's very not people smart, Tanya can't read people's motivations or characters worth shit. Hell, the entire reason she got murdered in the first place is the guy she fired pushes her onto some train tracks, and her point of view is just "what I don't get it, it makes perfect sense to fire you for underperforming, you should have just applied yourself better why are you blaming me?" She's a textbook Anime/Fiction sociopath, who... I guess a lot of people latch on to for the humor elements of her constant misunderstandings, rather than the part where she's a pint-sized magical war criminal who's inventing most of the war crimes while working for WWI Magical Germany. Really a lot of Tanya fanfic has that vague Worm Taylor shape to it where it's using the character name and backstory but only half-resembles the original character.
Most of her war crimes are things she wrote about in a paper in War College and then was told to commit by top brass. Depending on the tone of the paper, it may very well be a Torment Nexus situation.
Huh. I think the in-game Chronicles lists her as 20 while her brother's 18.
After looking further online, I see that fandom usually reconciles the differences as her being 18 at the beginning of the story, but by the time we meet her in Chapter 4, a straight playthrough (i.e., zero Errands or grinding) has Ramza 2 years older than he was in Chapter 1, which is why she's also 2 years older.
Yeah, I'm sorry, Ramza, but hearing Delita say "ah, and the Church will have the Zodiac Braves" and not immediately turning the conversation toward the topic of the Zodiac Braves being a) real and capable of possessing those who hold the stones, b) literal demons from hell? Absolutely wild. Negligent at best. You were yelling the truth from the rooftops the moment Meliadoul even vaguely brushed up against the topic, but you choose now to get embarassed about your outlandish story?
...did he even tell him about the more mundane aspect of Lord Folmarv plotting against Delita's boss, the High Confessor, to use his own conspirators to undermine the exact plan Delita intends to co-opt? That seems relevant! And important to securing his aid!
Hell, that means Delita has absolutely no knowledge of what happened in the Lucavi fights beyond the official story, and he is either (at least broadly) not questioning it, or totally disinterested in learning the truth. Perhaps that's why he's not taking on Ramza here and now for having mutually exclusive ends and means to his own - he thinks his former friend really did tear an entire castle apart like a wild animal with his bare hands, and he doesn't want any of that.
...you know, disinterested in the faith or not, Valmafra's a terrible goddamn spy. Her "own motives" better be real compelling for her not to just snitch on Delita for consorting with the heretic currently going through Church personnel like a runaway lawnmower.
Yeah, I'm sorry, Ramza, but hearing Delita say "ah, and the Church will have the Zodiac Braves" and not immediately turning the conversation toward the topic of the Zodiac Braves being a) real and capable of possessing those who hold the stones, b) literal demons from hell? Absolutely wild. Negligent at best. You were yelling the truth from the rooftops the moment Meliadoul even vaguely brushed up against the topic, but you choose now to get embarassed about your outlandish story?
...did he even tell him about the more mundane aspect of Lord Folmarv plotting against Delita's boss, the High Confessor, to use his own conspirators to undermine the exact plan Delita intends to co-opt? That seems relevant! And important to securing his aid!
Hell, that means Delita has absolutely no knowledge of what happened in the Lucavi fights beyond the official story, and he is either (at least broadly) not questioning it, or totally disinterested in learning the truth. Perhaps that's why he's not taking on Ramza here and now for having mutually exclusive ends and means to his own - he thinks his former friend really did tear an entire castle apart like a wild animal with his bare hands, and he doesn't want any of that.
Delita: "Ramza murdered Cardinal Delacroix and Grand Duke Barrington? Good job, buddy"
Vamafra: "With his huge demon claws?"
Delita: "Maybe? We haven't been in touch much"
Vamafra: "I'd assume not, what with the claws"
Delita's whole "I'd kill you if you were in my way, but you're not, so I won't even try" speech is actually a face-saving bluff towards the guy he thinks walked into a castle, massacred literally everyone garrisoned there, and then just like walked back out.
Delita's whole "I'd kill you if you were in my way, but you're not, so I won't even try" speech is actually a face-saving bluff towards the guy he thinks walked into a castle, massacred literally everyone garrisoned there, and then just like walked back out.
this is really beside the point, but Tanya was a moron who thought she was smart, right? That was the premise of that character? Like I only took in the first chapter of the manga, so I'm operating on like a third-degree adaptation, but the whole thing about being a corporate climber, while in the HR department, I was like "oh, this guy's clearly just a moron", but on the other hand I was also really not sure if the author knew about the Business Stereotypes that he was using
Delita's whole "I'd kill you if you were in my way, but you're not, so I won't even try" speech is actually a face-saving bluff towards the guy he thinks walked into a castle, massacred literally everyone garrisoned there, and then just like walked back out.
Delita is also pretty hot shit every time we see him in gameplay, being fair, he might honestly think he has a chance against Ramza. Might even have been true before chapter 4 since his skillset is similar to Wiegraf who demonstrably did hold his own against the guy.
Did, Could, Might, very strong words, I know. Sadly for Delita, this is now Ramza who did 1v1 Wiegraf and win, probably did the same to Gaffgarion story-wise even if there's other options there, and has now gained the power to Scream Really Loudly until his power level explodes through the roof. Ramza would totally win at this point, and even if he couldn't, well... where's Delita's loyal squad of Super Blorbos to back him up?
Hell, that means Delita has absolutely no knowledge of what happened in the Lucavi fights beyond the official story, and he is either (at least broadly) not questioning it, or totally disinterested in learning the truth. Perhaps that's why he's not taking on Ramza here and now for having mutually exclusive ends and means to his own - he thinks his former friend really did tear an entire castle apart like a wild animal with his bare hands, and he doesn't want any of that.
As long as Ramza's not coming for Ovelia, I think Delita truly does not give a damn, rumors of his ol' buddy massacring entire castles or not. Ramza is literally clearing out the Lords for him, from West to East and now to South, since we told him that we are going to meet up with Orlandaeu.
Our current track record pretty much implied that ol' Thunder God Cid will fell to our sword much like the Grand Duke and the Cardinal. With Elmdore officially dead, Ramza here is unknowingly helping Delita remove most of Ovelia's competitors for her. Goltanna is practically defenseless without Cidolfus by his side.
Delita should have thanked Ramza for doing his job for him.
Did, Could, Might, very strong words, I know. Sadly for Delita, this is now Ramza who did 1v1 Wiegraf and win, probably did the same to Gaffgarion story-wise even if there's other options there, and has now gained the power to Scream Really Loudly until his power level explodes through the roof. Ramza would totally win at this point, and even if he couldn't, well... where's Delita's loyal squad of Super Blorbos to back him up?
Time for another edition of The Rakes of Final Fantasy Tactics.
Rake #51: Enemy dragoons are scary
Status: But are they scarier than enemy knights? Spears are good and Jump is a great single target damage that ignores evasion, but Knights can rend your precious expensive (or impossible, if you're using rare stuff!) to replace equipment.
Rake #52: The Meliadoul fight.
Status: Ranged equipment rending attacks are utterly terrifying to be on the receiving end of. Thankfully, Safeguard nullifies this problem completely. Which is imporant because...
Rake #53: Not stealing from Meliadoul
Status: Chantage is the best accessory in the game because it's got permanent reraise which makes the wielder practically immortal. Also she has the Defender, which is a Knight Sword and therefore incredible.
Rake #54: Finnath Creek, aka Cocobo Meteor Swarm
Status: Dodged. Red chocobos in large numbers are an absolute menace. Good damage, good range, no cast time, and it ignores evade. And they seem to love picking on low HP casters.
*Stares* CHANTAGE WAS REAL!?!
THAT'S THE THING I WAS THINKING OF!!!
AN ACESSORY THAT MADE THE USER IMMORTAL VIA RERAISE!
Well, before you start thinking 'good thing Rosanne's is behind me now! I think it was also female only so either Hester, Gillian or Agrias would be the ones who could wear it.
Hm. Wonder if the Onion Knight class would allow Ramza to use it themselves? Then you'd be able to beat any battle eventually, if you sent him in solo.
Delita is also pretty hot shit every time we see him in gameplay, being fair, he might honestly think he has a chance against Ramza. Might even have been true before chapter 4 since his skillset is similar to Wiegraf who demonstrably did hold his own against the guy.
Yes. I always forget Gillian has Holy except in random encounters. It's a curse. My mind sees her Mystic Arts toolkit as "offensive" and her White Magick toolkit as "support" and refuses to remember she has the most powerful offensive spell in the list in there. When I do remember it, the enemy is always like one tile out of range.
You can get one of them by going to Clockwork city Goug, then reading the rumors in Coal City Goland, then going to Lesalia capital.
Also worth mentioning than in chapter 4 each map node has a 20% chance of starting a Rare Battle, which are random encounters but with more interesting enemies than normal random encounters - the rare battles at Bariaus Hill (entering from the north) and Grog Hill (entering from the south) are particulary interesting and worth checking out.
You know, it's funny. As a total aside here - references to Queen's Somebody to Love always trip me up.
For whatever reason, I didn't listen to much Queen growing up, and it was a very long time 'til I first heard Somebody to Love. Very good song, huge influential, long Wiki page, etc, definitely the go-to cultural reference when you hear that name.
But when I hear Somebody to Love referenced I don't think about Queen. I think about that one instead:
Furthermore, I'd just like to point out that Meliadoul has my favorite sprite in the game. Akihiko Yoshida is a patrician who knows that robes + armour is peak aesthetics. She even gets a further glow-up in FF: Brave Exivus. Lookit 'er go.
Side note but, because Yoshida's art style has very flat style and Meliadoul's sprite is very covered up, and because her dialogue with Ramza uses no gendered pronouns or gendered markers, I spent the entire fight thinking she was a guy, and would have written the whole update misgendering her if I hadn't thought to check the Personae tab. So, remember to check your Chronicle, people
Has Ivalice been the most seriously populated Final Fantasy game so far? Not that previous games have lacked in civilization or big cities or anything, just look at Midgar, but a lot of FF games have given a vibe of "disconnected settlements surrounded by dangerous, monster-infested wilderness." Meanwhile in Tactics the politics of the game and the multiple massive wars going on, not to mention how generally lackluster monster encounters can be compared to actual humans make it seem like this is a world much more... tamed or dominated than previous ones.
I think in many ways this is linked to the world vs country conundrum. You cannot make an entire planet explorable and have most of it realistically populated. Even with the overworld vs town screen dungeon, your world should, visually, have far more settlements than any Final Fantasy game has ever had.
Meanwhile, because Ivalice is a country and doesn't even try to portray its entire planet, it can put the same amount of interconnection and number of locations as FF normally would have across an entire planet into a single country, which naturally makes the entire place more dense and alive.
Basically what I'm saying is I know it's part of the brand but I'd like to see more FF games ditch the "entire world" approach and focus on "the game happens in one country."
FFXIV has an interesting approach to it, in that it basically has one country per expac, so each one has the equivalent resources of a full game thrown into them. FF7 Rebirth has an... Interesting approach in comparison. But so far Tactics is the winner as far as "this feels like a densely populated place fully taken up by human civilization."
Alright be honest with us Omi: did you plan for this result? Or was it just a sudden happy coincidence to find out "wait Hadrian is body-blocking the entire enemy army with his fat dragoon ass"?
I'm genuinely curious as to Ramza and company's thoughts on religion at this point. Ramza's keeping his conversations with all these religious foes focused on the conspiracy and the demons, but if the plot had Agrias and the others as canonically alive still there would have to be some real spirited religious debates and schisms going on as they discuss all of this.
Edit: Now that I reread, did Ramza seriously not mention the situation with Alma to Delita? I think with that AND the Lucavi you have to read this as him deliberately holding it back.
Unfortunately for all its thoughtful presentation of politics, interpersonal dynamics, and the motivations that inevitably lead to the tragedy of war, when it comes to the lived experience of religion FFT feels like many Japanese media in that it kind of seems to go as far as "people pray for guidance or intervention sometimes?" and then just kinda throws its hands in the air and doesn't really know what else to do with it.
Side note but, because Yoshida's art style has very flat style and Meliadoul's sprite is very covered up, and because her dialogue with Ramza uses no gendered pronouns or gendered markers, I spent the entire fight thinking she was a guy, and would have written the whole update misgendering her if I hadn't thought to check the Personae tab. So, remember to check your Chronicle, people
So, I finally was able to find the time to cover the differences in translations between the PSX and WotL versions of the game for the second half of Chapter 3 and all the way to Zeltennia castle. Let's see how that went; the last lot had few changes, so surely this will be the same?
- The first, tiny difference, which was already mentioned, is that when Malach first shows up to demand the Germonik scriptures, he's identified as "exotic-looking wizard", rather than the "outlander" used in the WotL translation. The meaning is the same, and I'd generally not even point this out, except for one thing.
I want to spotlight this change because, in all of the talk people have had of how much "better" the purple prose of the WotL version is than the original more straightforward PSX translation, this point gets lost. And that is: obviously, I know what outlander is supposed to mean, now, but (even if I were to grant that "Outlander" is an actual existing English word, which I'm not sure I should - the spellchecker certainly doesn't) I wasn't always as competent with English as I (like to think) I am now.
Twenty years ago, if I stumbled on a word like Outlander, especially in a fantasy story where I couldn't rely on context as much to divine its meaning, I might have been genuinely stumped by it. And the thing is, there's no reason to use a made-up archaism like Outlander instead of a simpler, clear term like exotic here; the translation is intentionally making things more confusing, and not to add emphasis or emotional impact as in other scenes. It's just the translators being cryptic for self-gratification reason, which is a frequent thing - I'm just spotlighting one example, but this isn't only one, it's just a particularly egregious, unnecessary one.
Final Fantasy Tactics doesn't have any other translation than the Japanese and English ones, as far as I know; is it fair to limit the ability of people with lesser command of the English language to enjoy the game? To reduce accessibility, especially when it's not actually required, like in this case? I think that's something people should think about before they keep saying that the WotL overabundance of purple prose is not a problem.
- Also, for fun, if Ramza tells Marach that he hasn't read the Germonique Scriptures, WtoL Marach says "a blythe response", but PSX Malak says "blessed ignorance". I like the latter better, just in terms of being fun dialogue. So, I'd definitely give this exchange to the PSX version.
- Next is the scene at the ruins near Zeltennia Castle between Delita and Ovelia. As usual, this was a normal in-engine scene in the PSX version, not a FMV. In terms of differences, well, let's say there's a few.
To start with, when Delita enters, and says to Ovelia "everybody was looking for you", with her not answering, aside from the small differences in framing (FMV Ovelia turns her head around, as if annoyed, while PSX Ovelia just remains there sitting still), PSX Delita has one extra line, where he, upon Ovelia not answering, says "ah, sorry, I shouldn't address you like that", before going into the "your gracious majesty" line.
This, of course, is significant, in that in the FMV Delita looks like he's just mocking Ovelia for fun, whereas his PSX version intentionally misinterprets her lack of answer as refusing to answer to him unless observing the proper courtesies, which is obviously a ploy on his part to draw that response out of her. The result of this is that, when Delita apologizes, he would sound less sincere to the player, but also more sincere to Ovelia - like he wasn't mocking her, but had genuinely misunderstood the reasons for her silence. It's a subtle bit of characterization that is lost in the WotL version due to the changes in both dialogue and framing of the scene.
After that, the next differences to be found are in Delita's speech to Ovelia in answer to her complaints about her life in the monastery and whether there's even anything Delita has to gain in keeping her alive instead of leaving her to die.
To start with, when in both version Delita opens saying that he and Ovelia are the same, in the PSX, he elaborates on that by merely saying "people forced to live false lives"; this is a lot less detailed of a claim than the WotL "given the wardrobe of a nobleman", and therefore, one that allows Ovelia to impose her own lived experience over Delita's in whichever way she better prefers. If Ovelia had dreams to be saved by a dashing noble knight, then PSX Delita gives her the option to believe that he is, in fact, a noble knight, only one who has been manipulated by others. Leaving the interpretation opens allows Delita to better impersonate Ovelia's ideal confidant, and also ensure that Delita himself doesn't risk creating a rift between the two of them by presenting a version of "we're the same" that doesn't resonate with Ovelia. It's a more cautious, more subtle approach than WotL Delita, and at the same time it reveals less to Ovelia in case she ever decides to use what she knows about Delita against him.
On the field of subtle differences, Delita's follow up PSX line of "always being used by someone" rather than the WotL "dancing for puppet-masters unseen", in addition to being less poetic and more straightforwards, also has more relevance to Delita's specific life experience, in that it references Algus/Argath's screed at the end of chapter one about "being used", and in particular about Ramza using Delita - Ramza is NOT a "puppetmaster unseen", but he would definitely fit the line of "someone who used me" for Delita, which seems like a hint of bitterness that really fit his character and which it makes sense he would subtly allude to in a way Ovelia can detect, and which the WotL prose completely erases. I don't know if the sentence is more interesting in terms of the words it uses; I don't think so, but perhaps it is. Even so, there's a term for using ten times the amount of words to communicate less information than a shorter sentence would, and that term isn't "good writing".
Speaking of sentences communicating less, after the "being used/manipulated" sentence, we have another case where complexity and adherence to an archaic style robs a sentence of all its strength, which is one of the less frequent sins of the WotL translation but, as we've seen from the frequency people in the thread keep repeating the PSX version of Delita's "blame yourself or God" line rather than the WotL version, is really striking when it happens.
So, the line that the WotL translation rendered as "this wretched word does not reward endeavor" was, in the PSX version, "try hard and you'll be rewarded, they lie". Yes, that's a much more prosaic, modern sentence, but that's the point, because it's not just prosaic; it's an everyday sentence. It's something a lot of us heard repeated to them, everyday, as a statement of fact, as "inspirational", as a reality of our society; "work hard and you'll be rewarded" is a familiar creed to us, the people playing the game - and one that Delita rejects virulently and, as we're shown repeatedly throughout the game, with extremely good reason. The impact of the line comes from its familiarity; by removing the player's familiarity with the concept through coating it with faux-medieval archaic prose, the WotL translation blunts the line's impact enormously and reduces the directness of the criticism the sentence would otherwise convey.
The next pair of sentences are mostly the same, about people acting the roles given them and most people not knowing they acting, but the PSX version has a "then again" in the middle, connecting the two sentences; I think that gives the phrase a more naturalistic, less theatrical flow - as if Delita had the "people act their roles" idea in his mind, ready to deliver to Ovelia, and then mid-speech realized that most people do so without awareness. This is mostly a style difference, if you're fine with theatrical delivery the WotL is probably better, but I think that the whole speech feels a lot more honest, like Delita started with a performance for the benefit of Ovelia but then slid into expressing his genuine beliefs, when it is less theatrical. So, this is, in a sense, another element of complexity lowering comprehensibility to me - the WotL version obscures things so that it's harder to be sure of how much Delita believes in what he's saying and how much of it is performance.
Which is important when we move to the last line of the speech. Having established that people manipulate others for their own gains, and having stated, in both versions, that he shan't be anybody's puppet anymore, the conclusion of the speech, the final point he reached, is substantially different; WotL Delita says "I will exact from the gluttons the cost of their meals" (in reverse order, because faux-medieval), which is a more general sentiment of "eat the rich" - almost word for word - which reads as revolutionary. Meanwhile, the PSX version has him be more specifically, and say that those who must pay are "those who used me"; that's not a revolutionary statement anymore, that's just pure desire for vengeance. Much more raw, fitting for the less theatrical framing of the speech, but also much less heroic, which helps with convincing us that this isn't a performance he's putting up for Ovelia anymore, he's being honest, and letting us, the players, know that he's no Milleuda or early Wiegraf, no fighter who wants to remove the puppeteers for the good of the people; he's in it for himself and his own satisfaction.
And the PSX version brings this home with an extra line to Delita's speech, one that is missing from the WotL version: "I'll be the one using people from now on". This, of course, is a clear element of changed characterization; the WotL tries to be coy about it and keep us guessing, but the PSX version makes it clear that no, Delita is, ultimately, a villain, self-interested and looking out for himself first. Knowing what his real motivation is changes a lot in terms of how one interprets his talk with Ramza at the Zeltennia church in chapter 4.
And this is the point where Ovelia interrupts with her question of "so what you're gonna do to them", and that leads to the largest divergence in this scene yet.
In the WotL version, where Delita's entire speech has been presented as theatrical and artificial to the audience, and as aiming for a revolution as its goal, he goes on with the grandiosity and theatricality, and promises to raze the kingdom to the ground to craft a new one from the ashes for Ovelia to rule, a pure world where Ovelia won't need to cry. With the framing of the rest of the speech having removed the lines that signposted this as a genuine and honest declaration from Delita, we're not sure if we can trust him on this, and Ovelia isn't either, as she asks him if that's really possible, he swears on his sister's soul that he won't fail her in the task of creating this world for her, and she then hugs him.
And the player is left wondering if this completely artificial and grandiose speech is honest, or if Delita has reached the point where he is willing to lie while swearing on his sister's soul. We don't know if he's a villain or not, but if he is, then he's a terrifying liar and manipulator who just played Ovelia like a piano, and one who has lost his last morality chain, the memory of his dead sister.
Meanwhile, in the PSX version, the speech Ovelia interrupted was framed as more honest with Delita's oblique references to his past, and his mask-off moment about him being no revolutionary, just an angry man who's seeking his revenge. And therefore, having declared to Ovelia openly that he's going to be the one using people, after having referenced in his speech Algus/Aragath's concept of "those who want to be used because they benefit from it", he tells Ovelia "let me guide you, and I'll give you the kingdom, make it worthy of you". He straight up put the darkest impulses of his soul on display for Ovelia to see, declared that from now on he would use people, and then offers Ovelia the chance to be used willingly, instead of being forced into it - she can have a perfect kingdom if she helps him achieve his revenge.
Delita painted himself as a tragic devil-like figure, and then offers the princess a deal; she can have the peace she thought her being imprisoned at Orbonne was meant to ensure, and in exchange he can avenge himself on all those who manipulated him.
This is where the framing is important, because in the PSX version, Ovelia spent the whole time Delita was monologuing sitting on the ground with her head lowered, but when Delita offers her the deal, she looks up at him; and Delita knees to clear her tears and saying "you won't need to cry anymore", which has a very obviously implied "if you work with me". And so, instead of asking him if his dream is possible, because there is no dream Delita spoke of here, just a straight up deal between two people who decided to fight back against the world who hurt them both by working together , Ovelia asks, quite reasonably, "how can I trust you?", and then Delita says "because I swear on my dead sister that I won't betray you", and when he does that, after this emotionally fraught conversation where Delita comes across as incredibly honest (for him, anyway), and genuinely says "I'm the villain, but I can be YOUR villain, if you'll have me" to Ovelia, you damn well believe him when he said that.
So... those WotL characterization changes I spoke about at the beginning? Abyssal, I would say they are. I honestly couldn't tell you if the PSX or WotL version is more faithful to the original, but really, after this scene, it doesn't matter. FFT PSX and FFT WotL are two different stories, because one of the two central cores of the narrative, the relationship between Ovelia and Delita, has been completely rewritten. Was it just to make Delita's character more ambiguous? Perhaps. Was it to service the obnoxious desire to use archaic terms? Perhaps. I can't know.
I do know that it completely changes the characters of both Delita and, more importantly, Ovelia. In the PSX version she's actively going along with Delita, following his counsel because she trusts him that this will led to lasting peace and an end to injustice; PSX Ovelia has obviously a lot more agency in openly becoming Delita's co-conspirator than WotL has in blindly trusting Delita, in my opinion.
But perhaps I'm just reading too much into it? What do people think?
- In any case, moving on from that, the PSX version doesn't have a Luso battle, and therefore no Luso dialogue. Up to people to decide if that's a pro or a con for the WotL version.
- On Grog Hills, the discussion with the deserters is very much the same, and in fact I'll give the WotL the edge in clarity there. Then we have the post-battle meeting with Orran, and where WotL has Ramza saying to him "you knew who I was all along", the PSX version has a much shorted and more ambiguous "you know"; Orran's answer is the same, but without that "all along" there, it'd be entirely possible to interpret Ramza's word as "you know (I am an heretic now)", which would make the whole conversation make a ton more sense. However, that's not what the PSX says, the line only reads as if the translator missed something and left their translation incomplete.
I'm not really willing to ascribe clarity point to the PSX version for a phrase that is ambiguous, regardless of whether that ambiguity would make things make more sense - the whole time, I've been arguing that the PSX version is easier to understand due to clearer wording, so I'll call this particular situation a wash.
- More interesting is the following exchange. In WotL, as @Omicron remarked, Orran answer's Ramza's pointed question "so Goltana would stop fighting if Larg did?" with a realpolitik "no, that's not how things would go"; PSX Orran, meanwhile, absolutely deflects the question by saying "but that would never happen", refusing to engage Ramza's hypothetical.
This obviously makes Orran look less honest, but at the same time, it does seem to offer Ramza a path forward, if he could somehow make Larg stop fighting. It's an interesting change in characterization - WotL Orran gives Ramza harsh truth, PSX Orran gives him hope - that informs the following exchange. It's the same in both versions, with Ramza asking Orran to deliver the message to Orlandu that somebody is manipulating things behind the scenes, but in the PSX version, this is in answer to Orran giving Ramza hope that war can be stopped if one side deposes their weapons and focuses on the real enemies; in the WotL version, it seems like it's Orran honesty that makes Ramza trust him as messenger. Same outcome, but changes the motivation behind the action, and therefore the characterization of Ramza himself.
- After confirming that Thunder God Cid will take to the field (with the PSX version specifically using "Kill" here, no half-measures in what he'd do if he decided he should act), the discussion about proof of the Church's wrongdoing proceeds the same, until Ramza almost reveals the Scriptures in the WotL version. In the PSX, he goes a step further, as his immediate reaction to Orran asking do you prove is "here, take the Script-" before he stops himself and goes "no, nothing". He wasn't just about to reveal about the proof, but to directly hand it to Orran. It's not a big difference, but it seemed worth remarking upon as an indicator of Ramza's readiness to use the Scriptures at this point.
This is followed by the weird "you have friends, of which I'm one!" declaration from Orran, which is just as weird in the PSX version as the WotL one.
- So, first note is that Marach is translated as Malak in in the PSX version. That just rolls off the tongue better for me, but I think it's just due to Italian spelling conventions. Still, seemed worth mentioning, because I'm sure I'll accidentally use Malak instead of Marach, or even mix the two into Malach, at some point or another; it's a very natural typo to make for me.
- With that out of the way, dialogue changes! Not in the first part of the conversation though, up to the slap things proceed the same, just with the usual difference in wording. I will say that I rather think two siblings heatedly arguing about their adoptive father having killed their biological family so he could use them as his personal assassins seems like the kind of conversation where you'd use the most direct language available instead of flowery metaphors, but it has become apparent that's just my preference.
After the slap, Rapha's line is slightly different and, I think, stronger for it in the PSX version: she says "You know what he did to me! I KNOW you know!", with the all-caps in the dialogue - I think the first time they show up in the whole script - which feels so much more raw than her talking around it with the "you know of the... the thing he did to me", or having her sentence interrupted; in the WotL version, with Rapha's line direct, Malak is the one who tries to talk around the issue with a "Don't you say anything more, or I...", and getting interrupted. It just feels punchier if Rapha is the one who is direct and Malak the one who has trouble articulating his excuses, you know? At least to me.
- Malak's line about not needing the help of the Templars is a bit clear in the PSX version, where he says "I'll prove we can beat you without the Templars (Shrine Knights, rather, in the PSX translation)", clarifying that this is just Malak trying to prove himself to Barrington, who, from what we see later at Riovanes, was planning to have Vormav and Wiegraf deal with Ramza for him, which is why he organized things the way he did.
- As @Omicron expected, Malak does has conversation mid-battle if he lives long enough. Here is the full transcript of it from the WotL version:
Ninja: What is the meaning of this, Marach? Has Rapha betrayed us? Marach: Pay my sister no heed! I will put an end to her defiance! The only slaying you need concern yourself with is Ramza's! Leave Rapha to me. Ninja: But how will you explain her death to Grand Duke Barrington? Marach: Did I not just tell you that is none of your concern? Breathe word of any of this to the Grand Duke, and that breath will be your last! Ramza: This girl is his sister? He would kill his own kin!?
The PSX follows the same beats, just using simpler phrasing, as usual. This also applies to the conversation with Rapha after the battle.
- As with Luso, the PSX features no scenes of Delita killing assassin. I also want to point out that, during that forced fight, Delita isn't just higher level than he is at Zeltennia, as Omicron noticed, he's also sporting much better equipment; at Zeltennia, Delita is using a normal Rune Blade, but in this fight he has the Save the Queen sword, as others mentioned, which is more powerful than the Rune Blade (14 WP) and even Meliadoul's Defender (16 WP). And I don't think I've ever seen Delita use Divine Ruination (the best swordskill) in the Zeltennia battle.
So, we're left to either assume that Delita stumbled onto a deleveling trap a few time, lost his super-sword, and decided never to use his better moves at Zeltennia against Zalmo, or assume that the ninja fight is an absurdity and entirely non-canonical. I know which one I'd go for.
- Rapha's one line in the Yuguewoods is the same in both version, complete with weird phrasing and near-word-salad formulation.
- So, Riovanes. We start with the meeting between the Templars and Barrington, who in the PSX is actually named Barinten. I do want to make a note that the PSX version of a lot of people's names are just simpler to pronounce and keep in mind, minor of a detail as it is.
The thrust of the discussion here is the same, but there's a few neat differences. When Barrington tells Folmarv "those who hold true power are those who hold the Zodiac Stones", where WotL Folmarv has a "you think us the greatest power in Ivalice?" that is affecting confusion, PSX Vormav has just a "!!" line of surprise and shock; with insight, PSX Vormav is worried that Barinten learned the truth of the Lucavi, and therefore he laughs it off with relief when Barinten starts talking of the Stones having been used to cause a cataclysm, indicating that he doesn't, after all, know the truth. WotL Folmarv meanwhile has the same line, but without the show of surprise previously in the conversation, it feels like a non-sequitur - going from confusion to hilarity feels a bit forced to me. It's not a big difference, but does changes the tone of the scene a bit.
Things proceed mostly the same until Folmarv slaps Isilud - lot of slapping going around in the Riovanes plotline, isn't there? - at which point the soldier comes in to inform Barrington of Ramza's arrival; however, in the WotL version, the dialogue goes "your guests are here" "Malach, see to their accommodations", which hides from the Templars who these people are, while the PSX version has the knight go "Sir, we verified the intruder's identity" and the Grand Duke answer with "Malak, take care of him", which makes it much clearer that the castle is under attack.
This is meaningful because it means that, in the PSX version, Vormav learns that the castle is currently under attack, something that WotL Folmarv has no reason to know; and obviously, knowing the castle is being attacked means that Vormav knows there is a scapegoat at hand to pin the slaughter of Riovanes on. WotL Folmarv decides to go omnicidal without clear cause; sure, he didn't want to take Barrington's deal, but going straight to "let's murder everybody" in answer seems a bit excessive, doesn't it? But in the PSX version, he knows that enemies are at the gate, and having somebody to pin the slaughter upon leads him to seize the chance, showing that Folmarv is quick to react, but also that this whole thing was not planned, it was a spur of the moment choice made as a result of conditions on the ground providing perfect cover for it.
Ultimately, it doesn't change much, but considering Folmarv is being built up as our Big Bad, his characterization being changed slightly here feels like something meaningful and worth noting to me. Opportunistic vs Reckless seems like a significant difference, especially for the main villain.
- At Riovanes' Gate, Rapha's initial declaration isn't just made using simpler words, but also conveys extra meaning in the PSX version.
The WotL version has her spending three lines of dialogue elaborating that Barrington is lying and Marach shouldn't trust him, in the PSX version she covers that all in a single brief line, "You know he's lying!", and follows it with a much more direct "if we don't run now, we'll be his slaves for life!", which is missing in the WotL version and which, considering Rapha's backstory, seems like a very important bit of extra emphasis - for Rapha, remaining Barrington's slave isn't limited to just being forced to kill for him, and the dialogue emphasizing this seems important to keep, and makes Malach's follow up, which in the PSX isn't just "he wouldn't lie to me" like the WotL version has, but rather "I trust him" (implicitly, "more than I trust you") far more of a gut punch for Rapha to stomach.
Also, when the battle is over, the Riovanes knight who comes out of the game doesn't say anything about claws and fangs, he only say "help... monsters..." in the PSX version, which is more foreboding, and also shows how desperate things are, for this knight to seek help from those who just murdered his comrades who were defending the gates. Minor, but again, a case where the WotL version changed things for no clear reason; it's not even more poetic, it just conveys less information without justification.
- Inside Riovanes Castle, upon meeting Wiegraf, we have another example of the purple prose reducing the impact of certain portions of dialogue, in my opinion. Whereas in WotL, upon Ramza chastising him for selling his body to the Lucavi for revenge, Wiegraf answers with "I do not fight to avenge Milleuda's death", the PSX version has him saying, straight out, "I don't give a damn about Miluda's murder". Same meaning, much more direct phrasing, and in this case, much more stunning in the delivery, I feel.
Still, overall the conversation is mostly the same, just with similar changes in phrasing all over it. Although, one specific change I want to note, during the mid-battle speech that you get if you wound Weigraf, he has a specific line: he describes the masses as "comfortably numb", which seems like a direct quote from Pink Floyd's "The Wall" - an album that has some relevance to the FFT storyline and Wiegraf specific role in it.
- Alma's brief talk with Isilud, listening to his last words and receiving the Pisces stone, then Folmarv showing up, realizing she has some connection to the Virgo stone, and taking her away while somehow failing to notice the Pisces stone Alma was holding slipping through her fingers in a jaw-dropping display of incompetence, follows the same beats with no meaningful change other than phrasing. There's no change in the dialogue here, I just wanted to note the whole deal with the Pisces stone so that I can reference it in a moment.
- Moving on to the confrontation on Riovanes' rooftops, where the start of the confrontation between Barrington and Rapha is the same, but when she hesitates to strike him, the PSX has him say "your body recalls the terror, but don't worry, the terror will gradually subside", which is a very different sentence than his "I'll take that flower as well" of the WotL version, even if it seems to be conveying the same sick threat.
In any case, the rest of the discussion once Elmdor shows up follows the same beats with minimal changes in words choice, as does Rapha's talk with Marach before and after she resurrects him.
- In the denouement, as mentioned, PSX Malak says that the voice said to "return to the one with the right mind", rather than the WotL "return to the side of the Valiant, the one whose heart beats true", so it doesn't clarify if it meant Ramza or Rapha; if anything, it is more ambiguous, making Rapha being the one the voice was referring to more likely, rather than less, but there's no clear sign either way. Also, the back and forth between Ramza and Malach on whether the stones are divine, a gateway for the Lucavi, or their power is dependent on the user is genuinely incomprehensible word salad in the PSX version.
Specifically, Marach line is "I guess it means whoever uses them would need to deal with the problem", which if anything could be interpreted as suggesting the theory brought forth by somebody else in the thread that actually the Lucavi are trapped inside the stones, and Rapha was only able to use Scorpio for good because Ramza already killed the Scorpio Lucavi. However, this is an answer to Ramza's incoherent line ("I didn't think the God made holy stones but...more evil... Well... Lucavi made them to hand in this world..."), so finding the thread of conversation is really hard. Fair's fair, on this particular exchange I need to declare the WotL has the much superior translation choices.
- As others mentioned, the title of chapter four was changed from "Somebody to Love" to "In the name of Love"; both of these are song titles, and the latter is actually the title of three different songs, although only two of those were out by the time the WotL translation was written, with the former also could be referring to two different songs, as @Omicron just said. Assuming the translators were referring the more famous two of those various songs, the ones by the English group Queen and the Irish group U2, that would mean the translators decided to move from a Queen song title to an U2 song title. That's certainly an... interesting choice, let's say. Not sure what it's supposed to communicate, but it's clearly something worth mentioning.
- In the conversation that opens the chapter, is worth mentioning that WotL Marach has apparently also been having problems with object permanence, as he says "Three men from the Templarate arrived shortly after (they probably meant to write before here) you", which is obviously nonsense, since it was only two who came, Isilud having already been in the castle. Meanwhile, the PSX version actually makes sense, as there Malak says "only three Shrine Knight were here", which is correct - Isilud was there, but not freshly arrived. Just wanted to point this out, because the only reason this mistake is here is due to the WotL translation wanting to use "arrived" instead of "were" - the classic sign of purple prose, using the wrong world to make the sentence more flowery and, in the process, sprouting nonsense. Again, minor but worth pointing out, because it makes the WotL translation of this scene clearly inferior, since it's communicating false information by accident.
- Also, just in case I haven't mentioned it before: in the PSX version, the Knight Delita leads are "the Black Sheep Knights"; "Blackram" has the same meaning, in that rams are sheep, but, considering how we had that scene of Delita declaring himself a tragic villain, the fact that the game isn't subtle about driving it home by having him being a "black sheep", while the WotL obscures it by naming them "Blackram", seems emblematic of the whole difference between the two translations - one is plain and very direct, the other is artistically convoluted.
- The only difference of note in the discussion between Orran and Orlandu is that, in the PSX version, when asked about the war, in addition to his worry about his reputation, Orlandu also has a line about "I also need to keep watch on my own men", which suggest that the Southern Sky troops aren't happy about the war continuing and are starting to become mutinous. An interesting minor details, and it's strange that the WotL version leaves it out, but ultimately not too consequential, as the focus of the discussion is the Templar's plot and what they will do to acquire the Zodiak Stone which Orlandu holds.
- As usual, it is possible to obtain some extra, optional dialogue from Meliadoul if the fight with her goes on for long enough; I believe the necessary trigger is to halve her HP and then let her get another turn, after which Ramza will have an answer on his next turn after Meliadoul has spoken, but don't quote me on that, this is all anecdotal. @Omicron missed this, so here is the WotL version of that dialogue:
Meliadoul: My brother thought to save this blighted land. Belike some milder course we might have chose(n), but what price too high, to see Ivalice born anew? Every birth must be baptized in blood. What hope have you to change the world, you child who failed even to realize your own destiny? Ramza: Please believe me! I did not take your brother's life! I am not your enemy! The Lucavi are as real as you or I! The man who was your father is gone, replaced by a demon they have taken body and mind! Meliadoul: Still you persist, Ramza! Ramza: I shall persist until I make you believe!
This dialogue, with the usual allowance for changed terminology and less colorful turns of phrase, is essentially the same in the PSX version.
- The follow up scene is another WotL invention, as seems to have been customary for the Delita & Ovelia's scene. Since the scene was not in the PSX version of the game, there is no comparisons to make on the translation.
I want to note that, in this case, one might have guessed that this was a WotL addition from the game reusing the "Gates of Lesalia" Map to represent the outside of Zeltennia Castle, a level of laziness that we've not seen in the actual original PSX cutscenes, all of whom are set on different maps for different locations even when that place is not a site of battle. Think the many different maps for the areas outside of Eagrose in Chapter 1, or the ruined church outside Zaland Fort City being a visibly different place from the ruined castle outside Zeltennia where Delita has his heart-to-heart with Ovelia, despite neither being a battle map, as examples of what I mean.
- Finath River has no dialogue to speak of, so we can move to Zeltennia, and the dialogue between Delita and Ramza, which is an FMV in the WotL version. As @Omicron noted, there is a first clear difference in staging, with the church being empty in WotL but having crowds in the PSX version, and with Ramza only kneeling to have a reason to speak to Delita without being overheard. However, there's also a number of differences in the dialogue.
Interestingly, the first portion, where Delita explains that he's been tasked with killing Goltana and Orlandu, and then the details of the plan, with the Church fomenting unrest and the Dukes deciding to bring things to a close with a decisive battle near Fort Besselath, is nearly identical in both translations; even the usual difference in wording is minimized here. The only true difference is that WotL Delita namedrops the Corpse Brigade in his speech, while PSX Delita doesn't, and PSX Delita has a line for Ramza to "keep your voice down", which is obviously removed from WotL with the change in setting, but those don't change the substance of what's being said.
So, the first change is when Ramza says "so, everything is going the way the Church planned". WotL Delita here has a strange line, which goes "it will not end as they have hoped. Larg and Goltana will both be assassinated", which... makes no sense, honestly? How does this flows out of the previous talks, and how is this not what the Church wants? Meanwhile, the PSX is actually clear, as Delita answer to Ramza question is "not quite yet", and then he clarifies that "somebody" will kill the leaders during the battle, as that is what the Church wants and what will bring their plan to completion. So, once again the PSX version going straight to the point clarifies things.
With Delita having already stated previously that Goltana and Orlandu are his targets, this implies that the church has infiltrated killers into Larg's group to take care of that side of the plot, and so that, if Delita doesn't kill Goltana, that's gonna screw up the Church's plan by leaving the Southern Sky in a much stronger position. Delita is exposing his leverage to Ramza here, which is important to understand what follows.
Next, we have probably the largest charge in the dialogue, considering how understated it is: the WotL cut one of Ramza's lines, which he has in the PSX version. Specifically, the line is this one, spoken in answer to Delita's comment of "they even used the hold Zodiak Braves legend":
Ramza: But the Zodiak Stones...
This is Ramza, about to reveal to Delita the truth of the stones, that they're not merely symbols to manipulate the people but items of power that contains huge power; he wanted to tell this to Delita, but he stops halfway, hesitating, clearly unsure if he can trust Delita.
And Delita, unaware of the secret Ramza was about to reveal, goes on to say that Ramza is all that stays between the Church and completing the plan. This suddenly puts Ramza on the defensive, as he asks Delita if he means to collect the stones from him, and Delita denies, saying that he's his own man, and then telling to Ramza that he will kill him, but only if he decides to pursue a goal other than what Delita is - that as long as their goal is the same, they're not enemies.
Now, neither Delita nor Ramza elaborate here, but there's only two ways that, after all this, Delita could think he and Ramza have the same goal. The first is if he assumes that Ramza and himself both want peace; that's would line up with Ramza's personality, but doesn't really work for Delita, especially with his declaration to Ovelia that he's in this for revenge first and foremost. So, then, what is the goal Ramza has, that aligns with Delita's own goal?
The one they were just speaking about, of course. Ramza is keeping the Zodiak Stones away from the Church, which will interfere with their "hearts and minds" plan, and as a result, make Delita's position as Ovelia's closer councilor once he's removed Goltana that much stronger, giving him even more leverage in dealing with the Church. Delita doesn't know Ramza is keeping the stones from the Church for demonic reason, but he doesn't really care either; as long as Ramza keeps doing that, he's working towards Delita's goal, and since killing Goltana and Large will lead to the end of the fighting, which is also something Ramza would want, as far as Delita is concerned, they're working to the same aims.
However, in doing this, revealing that he has no aims for the Zodiak Stones, Delita has given Ramza the reason necessary to keep the secret about them to himself; if Delita knew what the Zodiak Stones do, he might change his mind on not trying to get them from Ramza, so it's better if he doesn't know, as it prevents a potential fight. Ramza wanted to tell Delita, but Delita gave him the reason not to - and all of this subtlety is lost because the WotL decided to cut a single line of dialogue.
Moving forward, the discussion then has Ramza propose a straight up alliance, in the PSX actually saying "come with me"; of course, in both versions Delita refuses, because Ovelia needs him, and while he says that he's not sure if he's using her for his own ambitions or not - which, again, we know from the discussion when he and Ovelia made their deal, is because he's not sure if using somebody who agreed to be used really counts as manipulation - he then goes on to say that he'd give his life for her, which is a claim that is harder to be sure about the veracity of. But Ramza, in both version, says that he believes Delita about it when the latter asks him if that seems strange to Ramza.
- Next we have the actual fight in Zeltennia, with Delita declaring his desire to exterminate the opposition, Ramza trying and failing to persuade Zalmo to see reason, and Zalmo condemning everybody as heretics and refusing to talk things out before dying while asking god to strike down those who killed him, in stark contrast to the biblical "forgive them, for they know not what they do". The two versions are in full agreement on this fight, the differences are just the usual stylistic choices and even those are very minor in this particular fight.
- Then we have the post battle speech. This mostly flows in the same manner, with Ramza explaining that he might have evidence that could persuade Orlandu to help stop the church's scheme and put an end to the fighting without bloodshed; Delita is intrigued, and notably doesn't state whether he agrees with this idea or not, which means that, from Ramza's point of view, if he can get Orlandu to make Goltana stand down, then Delita won't have a reason to go forwards with the assassination plot. From Delita's point of view, it's much harder to say, but Ramza is clearly choosing to trust Delita here, to believe that, if Ramza achieves his goal, Delita will not strike those the church asked him to. This is mostly identical in the two version, once the stylistic choices are accounted for, as usual.
- When Balmafula shows up and informs them both that Orlandu already left, and Delita says "oh well, so much for solving things that way" in both versions, we have our next tiny divergence, where in WotL he says to Delita "don't give up yet", in the PSX Ramza says "I'm not giving up yet", which makes Delita follow up "then this is goodbye" flow better - Delita is letting Ramza try to persuade Orlandu, but with the implication that, if Ramza fails, then Delita will do the murder, whereas the WotL version confuses things with Delita's "then our path diverge once again" suggesting that he'll try to kill Orlandu no matter what, which obviously makes the sequence of events non-sensical and confusing in the way @Omicron highlighted.
As I said we would, we're reaching the part of the WotL translation where things are starting to no longer make sense due to poor choice of wording and an insistence to not make what's being spoken about clear to the player.
And that's it for the translation differences; if this was helpful to anybody, let me know!
With the translation comparisons out of the way, I wanted to address this:
Delita said in a sort of handwavy fashion that his goals and Ramza's are currently aligned, and only their means differ. But their means are completely incompatible. It is literally impossible for both of them to succeed. Either Cidolfus gets killed in the fighting or he convinces everyone to stand down, and if everyone stands down without all the leaders being assassinated first then the Church is no longer in a position to casually sweep in oh and also Ramza's plan relies on exposing the entire conspiracy that Delita is using to (allegedly) put Ovelia in power!
So, from my read of things, helped by the PSX translation approaching the scene differently, Ramza is counting on Delita being, ultimately, opposed to the Church and caring only about Ovelia ruling, which isn't incompatible with Orlandu managing to force a ceasefire by exposing the Church plot; Delita hasn't actually stated outright that he wants to rule alongside Ovelia, and in fact he fed Ramza that "I don't know" line when questioned on the subject, while making it clear that Ovelia surviving is non-negotiable.
Whether Ramza is being played remains to be seen, but from his point of view, he doesn't believe Delita will go ahead with the assassination plot if he can prevent the battle at Besselath from taking place. And, of course, Delita isn't the one assigned to killing the Beoulve brothers and Larg, so Ramza won't have to worry about him to prevent that particular assassination from taking place, it's a separate affair Ramza will need to tackle some other way. With those premises, Ramza considering Delita a tentative ally makes some amount of sense - if anything, if not for Delita, Ramza might not even have know the plot included killing his brothers; Delita could easily argue that revealing that was a favor he did Ramza, if Ramza still cared enough about his older siblings to want to save them.
Additionally, I want to discuss something else, not related to the translation, but to the general structure of the Riovanes situation and how the writers created a huge plothole there, and exacerbated another previous one, when they could have avoided it.
On the rooftops, Elmdore appears to have stayed specifically so he could finish off Barrington and retrieve the two Zodiac Stones in his possession - Taurus and Scorpio - because collecting all of the stones is a priority for the Lucavi. This gives us the plot reasons why the two stones had to be handed off to Alma back when Ramza confronted Isilud, which was a very obvious "Ramza is only doing this idiotic things to service the plot's needs" things back there, and called out as such.
So, the stones left Ramza's custody and were given to Alma; she was kidnapped by Isilud, who took the stones from them, and then Isilud himself was captured by Marach, who took the stones from him and had them on his person; Barrington kept the precise location of the stones secret, so Folmarv sent Wiegraf after Marach while Elmdore went after Barrington. This all eventually resulted in Rapha retrieving the stones, and using the Scorpio stone to bring Marach back to life. That was the purpose of Ramza temporarily losing the stones - to direct the actions of the Lucavi during the Riovanes incident, and having a reason for one of them to end up in Rapha's hand so she could show that the stones can be used for good after all, and aren't just Lucavi-summoning devices.
This goes completely against Folmarv failing to retrieve the Pisces stone from Isilud's body after killing him, much less letting it slip from Alma's fingers. Of all people, Folmarv would have had to know that his son was one of those chosen to be part of the Zodiak Braves, and given how much effort the others went to retrieve the other two stones, it makes no sense for him to not make sure of the location of the Pisces stone before leaving.
And that's not the only plot-hole: the Virgo stone resonating with Alma saved her life... but how did Folmarv had that? Isilud retrieved it from Orbonne, of course - but Isilud was then captured. Shouldn't he still have had that one, so that Marach confiscated it, and shouldn't then Folmarv have asked about the location of that one as well, when he confronted Barrington? Instead, Formav has it, which only makes sense if, after taking Alma hostage but before leaving, Isilud handed over the Virgo stone - and only that one - to Weigraf, who was staying to hold back Ramza while Isilud escaped with their objective (said objective being the Virgo stone), and that, when Wiegraf turned into Belias and escaped, he handed Virgo over to Folmarv.
This whole thing is extremely convoluted and makes no sense, and most of all: it was completely avoidable. Because, honestly: how is it that Malach managed to interrogate Isilud enough to learn about the Zodiak Braves, but failed to realize that Isilud had one stone on his person? What, did they search Alma (as they would have had to, to retrieve the Taurus and Scorpio stones), but not the Templar who they'd gotten prisoner?
It would have made much more sense, for all people involved, if Ramza had not, in fact, given the stones to Alma, and instead Marach has retrieved both Pisces and Virgo from Isilud. Then, Barrington could have split the stones - have Folmarv arrive, ask "where are the Virgo and Pisces tones", and Barrington shows Virgo only, but says that the Pisces stone is hidden, which would make sense as a "show proof that you have the goods but don't reveal where all of them are". Folmarv would then retrieve Virgo after smashing the knights, therefore having it on his person to ensure Alma's survival at the opportune moment, while Marach would still have Pisces, which Elmdor could go after and Rapha could then go on to use to resurrect Marach.
Pisces is also, incidentally, Rapha's Zodiak Sign, so this could have worked as a "oh god, are we fighting the Pisces Lucavi right now, immediately after the Riovanes gauntlet!?" fakeout, if handed properly, before revealing that no, no we aren't; that didn't work as well with the Scorpio stone she uses in the game, since the players has already faced the Scorpio-aligned Lucavi.
Straightforward series of events, filling in all plotholes and removing the need for both Ramza and Folmarv to act like idiots, the first by handing over the stones to Alma and the latter by failing to retrieve the Zodiak Stone he himself had given to his son. Why didn't the writers set things up this way then? I have no idea, but that's what we're left with - a series of confusing events that could have been easily solved with a bit more attention to the details of the Sally-Anne problem they were dealing with regarding to the location of the various Zodiak Stones.
No, you wouldn't. See, if the entirety of your team is KO, even if each single member of the team has Reraise and would therefore self-resurrect when their next turn comes up, that's Game Over. You always need to have at least one living member of the team for the battle to continue, if all of your team is down the battle ends automatically, whether they have Reraise or not.
Unfortunately, Ramza was the only one there to see that, and somehow his talk about how he felled Wiegraf in a single strike make him appear even less credible than his talk about demonic Zodiac Braves.
