Let's Play Every Final Fantasy Game In Order Of Release [Now Finished: Final Fantasy Tactics]
- Thread starter Omicron
- Start date
- Let's Play
Most things aren't, min its also warpskip the game but the games is hilariously deranged.
Ok. You need to play more NES and SNES games or even earlier ones. Because frankly, FFT is a clone of a older game (tactics ogre, made by some of the same people, and it's arguable which one is cooler) and that game itself is a evolution of several other game ideas. It isn't even the first older isometric tactics game square did (I think it's Front Mission 1 in the SNES, might be wrong, game has a interesting downer twist btw).
Unless you mean genre as in "music" and if so, weird, but not the weirdest thing on the internet.
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SolipsistSerpent
Endlessly Devouring
Huh, I'm surprised you haven't seen it before, I've seen it quite a few times... admittedly in fantasy works like this one. I've seen it more often than 'sellswords,' at least.
In my experience, guys that cling tightly to honor codes rather than pragmatism are more, rather than less, likely to favor throwing themselves and their men into unwinnable battle rather than surrender. I was more surprised he teleported away at the end to regroup.
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Egleris
Vagrant Dragon
- Location
- Italy
As mentioned, this was added to the WotL version; in the original PSX version, this is a normal scene set in Mandalia plains, with a lot of excellent spritework making it quite impressive, not just for its time, but for 2D animation in general. As pretty as the new FMV are, I hate that they're removing some of the most lovingly crafted bits of the game - and, of course, the weird art-style used by the FMV will always be immersion breaking to me, whereas keeping to the game's consistent aesthetic for the cutscenes is not.
It's actually a little bit more complicated than that: if you check dead characters, their CT is still moving when they're dead - that's how the countdown to crystallization works, it's the number of turns the dead unit is taking - so you can, with proper timing, deliver your resurrection such that a character acts immediately after being raised. It can be a little bit tricky, but depending on the fight it can change the tide of battle.
Nice work pulling that off, it's an interesting strategy.
Usually, the way to handle this fight is to drag Wiegraf down by limiting Delita's movement; then Wiegraf needs to take one further step forward to hit him, which means he's on the ground, making rushing him much faster. Magic sniping also works relatively well.
As mentioned, White Magic can curve around corners and hits multiple targets, and Raise gets you up at 50% HP; also, you don't need to spend money on them (except for Ethers, but there's ways around that). They require charge time, and that ultimately makes them less effective than Items, which are a big emergency button that goes off immediately, but they do have their own niche. A well rounded team will usually have at least two healers anyway, one with White Magic and one with Items, to cover all angles.
These don't work like that; they aren't additive, they're multiplicative. Your selection would give you 36% Evade. If you had 25% from Shield, 25% from Mantle, and 60% from a weapon, that wouldn't give you 110% evasion - it'd be somewhere around 78%. Which is pretty amazing, but you can still be hit.
Note that abilities like Defend (and some others) double evasion; using Defend with a 60% evasion weapon (and the Parry/Weapon Guard ability set) gives you 100% evasion (from the front). Of course, spending a command on defending could be a waste of your turn, but there are tactical uses.
I think it's mostly the fault of FFV taking so long to be imported. FFVI is great, but it's also a big mess in a lot of ways; FFIV is straightforward and simple, but very well done. I can see the argument for preferring FFIV to FFVI, and if you're caught in the backlash against FFVII, but didn't really enjoy the mess that is FFVI, then a line like "my favorite is FFIV" can kind of make sense.
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- Location
- SV's Only Complete Persona Quest
- Pronouns
- She/Her
So, you're saying FFIV is like the Linux of Final Fantasy?
- Location
- Singapore
- Pronouns
- Singular They
To be precise, Dycedarg says "数十人しかいない". Which means "no more than some tens of people". Personally I'd say "a few dozen", with the understanding that it really is less than thirty or forty. "Less than a score" might be overstating it, but it's also not wrong as such, and could very well be true. Dycedarg is probably just speaking offhand when he says "less than a score", and isn't concerned with specifics like "but there are twenty-one people, that's more than one score".
In this exchange, Ramza does sound like he has a personality. It's not easy to pin down specifics of that personality, but at least he's expressing emotion beyond words on a script. He's repeating the start of each sentence, particularly when talking about Tietra, which gives the impression of desperate pleading and some measure of despair; he can barely hold himself together to say each sentence.
Dycedarg is still talking like he's giving solemn meaningful speeches, possibly because he just Talks Like That. He says he thinks of Tietra as "実の妹", "a true (younger) sister". As in "trueborn", using the same usage FFT has done so far. Which might just be empty rhetoric, or it could indicate something about how Ramza is not Dycedarg's "trueborn" (ie full) sibling. On balance, I think this is just Dycedarg saying what he thinks Ramza wants to hear, while not meaning much of it.
It's also pretty close to the Japanese text: Argath uses words like "playing at being friends" (友だちごっこ) and how Ramza should wake up and end the pretense.
Argath here gets another round of Shakespearean Speech, like his tirade against Milleuda earlier. It's definitely written to be an oration to the audience, and also intended to be unsympathetic and forceful; think Richard III, who gets some great speeches, but they're unambiguously villainous. Interestingly, he becomes Shakespearean when he talks to Ramza, and only when talking to Ramza during this exchange. When talking to Delita, he's just as rough and direct as before, sounding like a violent thug going "I'd tell you to bring it, but you're not even worth scum".
Delita is also furious and desperate, using shorter, more impactful sentences, and sounding, well, like Argath used to sound before the whole class war thing was brought up. Previously I was considering mentioning the common Red Oni/Blue Oni characterization concept, where Argath is the hot-blooded fighter Red Oni and Delita is the cold-blooded planner Blue Oni, but now Delita is very much Red Oni.
Ramza is... changing. At the beginning of this exchange, he's acting like he's trying and obviously failing to be a mediator, saying "everyone calm down" and generally not taking sides. It's only at the end does he decide Argath is in the wrong and has to go. This happens after Argath tells Ramza to stop associating with Delita, so that appears to be the trigger point.
For more context, the "best of luck" is clearly sarcastic. An alternate translation is "do your best", said as levelly and insincerely as possible.
"My soft-hearted friend" is 甘ったれた御曹司さん, which is broken down into "too naive/spoiled" and "noble son". The addition of "-san" at the end of "noble son" makes it sound a little more sarcastic, so the line is "my naive lordling". Argath's usage of "friend" is akin to the usage in the prelude to a bar fight of "you got a problem, friend?"
Honestly, given what little I know via the FFXIV Ivalice raids and FFT's intro narration about Delita Heiral going from commoner to king, this does seem like it hints at the first pebble in Delita's descent into darkness.
When Delita says "'Tis my meager lot in this life", he is calling himself 持たざる者, ie "a have-not". As in "a person who lacks (authority, standing, resources, rank)". He's stuck on Argath's words about people having different inherent worth based on their lineage, and being unable to refute it with empirical evidence.
So as is very common for such characters faced with their relative inadequacy, Delita might be thinking "if I'm a have-not, I'll show you all what a have-not can do". The example that's blaring in my mind right now is in Yakuza Kiwami, but I'm sure there are a zillion other potential examples.
Also while Delita might have started his hypocrisy here (or later; I don't know), he has always been the "cold" one of the speaking characters. Hence my describing him as the "cold-blooded planner" character type, based on his dialogue so far. Thus, I can see how that can be turned into villainy.
(No idea about "at Ramza's expense", of course. That one I'm just as blind.)
Yeah, according to the script site, there are three mid-battle triggers.
The first is when Milleuda loses any amount of HP, which makes her start talking on her next turn, going "I cannot die here". I don't know if this was triggered by the 4 damage that enemy-cast Fira caused, or if a player party character needed to do the damage.
The second is "after the above", and happens on Ramza's next turn. This is when Ramza goes "why must we fight" and Milleuda responds with "you have the Beoulve name, your very existence is my enemy".
The third is "after the above" (ie Ramza and Milleuda debate) when Milleuda loses further HP (apart from the first trigger), and happens again on her next turn. This is when Milleuda goes "I will never surrender".
So presumably if you manage to defeat Milleuda before she gets her turns, you might miss these triggers. I don't know if there are failsafes for that situation, where all the triggers get queued up and play in sequence regardless.
As for the dialogue, Milleuda continues to be Shakespearean. She's speechifying her hatred and defiance for the audience's benefit, while Delita and Ramza are addressing her normally. As in if this was a stage play, the spotlight would be on Milleuda the entire time, and Delita and Ramza's pleas are just lines fed to her to elaborate on her performance. It's a big dramatic scene, and Milleuda is the star.
The Japanese text is the inverse: Wiegraf says "It will not be a death in vain. One person's death will bring many nobles with them!"
Overall it's still a bit difficult to pin down Wiegraf's morals. He talks about making a better world for their children at one point, including refraining from dishonourable tactics like taking hostages, and then goes "every noble must die, and we should sacrifice ourselves at a favourable rate to accomplish this". The disagreement with Gragoroth seems to be about fighting or running, where Wiegraf thinks everything is going to turn out fine if they hole up in their fortress, while Gragoroth thinks they'll just die "a dog's death" and retreating is the answer.
Possibly the question about Tietra as a hostage is because if the Corpse Brigade follows Gragoroth's plan of flight, they would have to keep Tietra hostage indefinitely, and that offends Wiegraf's sensibilities, moral or logistical.
Yeah, this update is full of "tragic coincidences". First Milleuda running into Ramza and co., and now Gragoroth taking Tietra despite Wiegraf's orders. And nobody knows the full story, or even holds themselves responsible even if they did, because they all have larger grievances to fight over. Nobody is listening to anyone else, perhaps understandably, but it does result in these tragedies.
Slow: "Time, rest your feet. Give your blessing to the chosen!" Quite close.
Judgment Sword: "We need not be frugal, for the thread of life is transient... Bury!" This is especially difficult to translate, because the actual name of the move is 不動無明剣. The last kanji just means "sword", so we are concerned with the first four kanji... which is a reference to Buddhist concepts of impermanence and nothingness. The literal translation is "immovable ignorance", but I am not familiar enough with Buddhism to figure out the context or meanings. So someone else will have to explain it.
Northwain's Strike: "Stand in the meridian of the seven shadows of the Star of Death!" Which is rather epic. The move name is 北斗骨砕打; the last three kanji mean "bone-crushing strike". The first two kanji is "hokuto", which does refer to the Big Dipper, but the name in English is a little less epic, so translations in other media (famously "Hokuto no Ken") like to localize it as "North Star".
Shockwave: "The wrath of Earth is within this arm! Defense is impossible!" Interestingly the called name has an additional "Gale, Shockwave!", although I don't know why the sudden mention of wind. The move itself is 地裂斬, which is Earth Split Slash, so I can see where the original name comes from.
We actually do have "official" chants for the Holy Knight moves, because of Return To Ivalice. These are obviously not one-to-one translations of the Japanese text, and are localized in the same vein as most modern Final Fantasy, but they're the closest we have to "official translations".
Judgment Sword: "To the current of life we succumb. Its judgment swift and final, its bite as cold as steel!"
Northwain's Strike: "Seven shadows cast, seven fates foretold. Yet at the end of the broken path lies death, and death alone!"
Judgment Sword: "To the current of life we succumb. Its judgment swift and final, its bite as cold as steel!"
Northwain's Strike: "Seven shadows cast, seven fates foretold. Yet at the end of the broken path lies death, and death alone!"
- Location
- SV's Only Complete Persona Quest
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Talking about the Big Dipper in regard to Northwain's Strike keeps reminding me of this song:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7ysRps-iYA
That and the Luna Park rollercoaster
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7ysRps-iYA
That and the Luna Park rollercoaster
Wade Garrett
Just trying to do the right thing
- Pronouns
- He/His/Him
I get what you're saying but also this is just Shaga, Son of Dolf except a jacked hyena man.
(For SHAME, Tyrion, you get Bronn a Lord Paramouncy and a Small Council seat but nothing for Shaga? Truly, the Halfman was fooled by the rocks that he got.)
Tough. Don't blame Wiegraf, blame yourself or God.
Kadmus
Dragon's teeth are surprisingly hard to sow
- Location
- Devon
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'm a little perplexed at people's perplexion at Wiegraf's positions? He's very clearly an idealist, in the literal sense, someone who has a specific ideal that drives all of his actions; this is why he is both happy to kill commoners associated with nobles and simultaneously unwilling to take hostages, why he's willing to fight and spend the lives of his men but also willing to flee before death.
He has a single, driving goal that comes before all else, and that's what informs his entire pattern of behaviour. 'No more nobles' is probably the shortest description you could come to for it, and that makes everything make sense? He doesn't take hostages, because that's a noble thing to do. He kills commoners associated with nobles, because they're part of the apparatus of nobility. He fights against nobles and is willing to let his men die against them in the hopes of slaying any number of the nobility, but he flees when he's about to die because if he dies he can't kill more nobles.
He has a single, driving goal that comes before all else, and that's what informs his entire pattern of behaviour. 'No more nobles' is probably the shortest description you could come to for it, and that makes everything make sense? He doesn't take hostages, because that's a noble thing to do. He kills commoners associated with nobles, because they're part of the apparatus of nobility. He fights against nobles and is willing to let his men die against them in the hopes of slaying any number of the nobility, but he flees when he's about to die because if he dies he can't kill more nobles.
- Location
- Singapore
- Pronouns
- Singular They
These two points contradict his behaviour towards Tietra, though. Not only does he not kill Tietra, despite her likely being associated with nobles (since she was found in the Beoulve home), he also essentially takes Tietra hostage when he fails to release her immediately, and instead tells Delita to go through him to get to her.
The honourable thing to do in that situation, based on Wiegraf's stated desire to not use hostages, would be to call for a brief truce, while he releases Tietra, then go take revenge for Milleuda's death. But he does not do that, and indeed when Delita says Tietra is not a Beoulve, Wiegraf goes "that's not important right now".
Wiegraf clearly and understandably thinks taking revenge for Milleuda's death is more important than freeing a hostage. But that does mean he's not holding himself to the standards he says he has, at that moment.
Egleris
Vagrant Dragon
- Location
- Italy
I mean, he's also cool with saying "yes, I do want you all to die for the cause", but then he, himself, isn't ready to die for the cause after all. It seems clear to me that Wiegraf, regardless of how well intentioned his actions are, isn't exactly the moral paragon he pretends to be.
- Location
- Italy
To be completely fair, however, if a couple of noble brats parked themselves in front of my hideout, told me "yeah we killed your little sis but we didn't mean to, honest", and then demanded I release THEIR sister instead, I would also temporarily forgo my ideals in order to Judgement Sword them in the face 8 times.
- Pronouns
- She/They
If Wiegraf's more questionable actions all came only after learning that Milleuda was killed by some noble brats*, it would be easy to write it off as grief and anger blinding him to his usual morals. It's just that he's already had a somewhat confused moral compass, so you can't just write it off as that.
The other option is that his moral compass being somewhat inconsistent is an intentional decision? We only see bits and pieces of him, so it's hard to get a full picture, but it could be that he doesn't actually fully believe in what he espouses, kind of like Dycedarg when talking to Ramza? So he could believe in the power of a good speech, and is happy to do whatever he thinks he needs if he's able to come up with a post-hoc justification to the troops.
Alternatively, it could be as a result of compromises made with other Corpse Brigade leadership? They're so varied and have so many different types among them that maybe he's used to giving concessions to some of the members who aren't ideologues like him, and that's filtered into his moment to moment decision making. So maybe he does believe, but is willing to brush off the odd breach of honor in the name of the cause.
It could also just be confused writing, I suppose, but given how well its held together thus far I'm willing to give a bit of benefit of the doubt here, it feels like there has to be something more to Wiegraf.
*and friend
The other option is that his moral compass being somewhat inconsistent is an intentional decision? We only see bits and pieces of him, so it's hard to get a full picture, but it could be that he doesn't actually fully believe in what he espouses, kind of like Dycedarg when talking to Ramza? So he could believe in the power of a good speech, and is happy to do whatever he thinks he needs if he's able to come up with a post-hoc justification to the troops.
Alternatively, it could be as a result of compromises made with other Corpse Brigade leadership? They're so varied and have so many different types among them that maybe he's used to giving concessions to some of the members who aren't ideologues like him, and that's filtered into his moment to moment decision making. So maybe he does believe, but is willing to brush off the odd breach of honor in the name of the cause.
It could also just be confused writing, I suppose, but given how well its held together thus far I'm willing to give a bit of benefit of the doubt here, it feels like there has to be something more to Wiegraf.
*and friend
- Location
- Brittany, France
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Article: This story happened a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. It is already over. Nothing can be done to change it.
Seems to me that a Galaxy Far Far away hadn't heard of the magic of Fanfiction.
- Pronouns
- She/They
I've always believed that the best kind of tragedies are the ones where everything just feels so inevitable; even if someome was willing to reach out, or say something just a little bit different, it wouldn't be enough to change the fate of the story rolling inexorably onward.
Like the Milleuda fight; it was chance we ran into each other, but no matter how hard Ramza or Delita begged to avoid a fight, Milleuda could never pass up an opportunity against some nobles. Nor could she accept any fate but death on the battlefield, as she feels cornered and knows there is no mercy to be had in custody.
By the same token, Ramza couldn't really just let her go, because despite his growing doubts, he still believes in the possibility of peaceful resolution, he believes in the honor and nobility of his brothers, and that bloodshed no matter the cause is a tragedy. Even if Milleuda would accept a truce here, could Ramza really just let her go?
The events that are transpiring are the only ones that could ever happen, and even if we can see a bit of the future from where we are, there's really nothing that could be done to stop it.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
IV also benefited from being ported to every console and handheld from the PSX onward, something that was not the case with most of the other candidates for "best Final Fantasy" (VI got a GBA remaster but no PSP or DS remake, while the original version of VII has never had that sort of official touch up, and the REMAKE trilogy is mostly it's own thing). Most of those ports adding content (bonus dungeons, calls forward to the After Years, multiple overhauls to the entire combat system) didn't hurt. The Pixel Remasters got shit for a lot of that stuff being left by the wayside, but it's especially noticeable in IV because between the GBA, DS, and PSP ports there was a lot of bonus content that likely won't be seen again.
While FF2 probably has more story relevant content added on... well, it's FF2. Soul of Rebirth is designed for masochists.
Ah yes, Soul of Rebirth
Or more accurately, Soul of "Grind for five to ten hours so your blorbos scaled to super-early main game can handle final dungeon tier enemies". Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed it enough as a kid (and it was made easier because I'd turned Ricard into an absolute monster while he was still in the party, dude could have soloed the Returned Emperor no need for a heroic sacrifice), but I'm pretty sure it would have dragged FFII down even further if Omi actually had to LP that.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
It is perfectly in character with the rest of Final Fantasy II.
Meanwhile, Final Fantasy 1's bonus boss run is basically a tour of the SNES era bosses (conveniently from all games that had GBA adaptations), FFV added a few more classes and a chance to deck Enuo (along with super versions of Omega and Shinryuu), and FFVI brought back a cut content superboss in the form of the Kaiser Dragon.
Being fair to FF1's bonus bosses, Dawn of Souls was made before FFIV/V/VI got GBA ports, and it also includes the FFIII World of Darkness bosses. Also can't forget FFIV adding not only an entire bonus dungeon with specific character-themed trial floors and rewards, but also letting you swap your endgame party to bring back all the still living party members. Want Cid to smack Zeromus with a hammer? You can do it! Want to grind Edward to level 99 where he suddenly gets ridiculous stat growths in his last few levels? Go for it!
...The more GBA bonus content I remember, the more I do kinda miss it in the Pixel Remasters.
There's also whatever Chronodia was supposed to be in the later PSP version.
- Location
- Brittany, France
- Pronouns
- He/Him
thank god, after refreshing the rumor tab after every story development I started losing hope that it'd ever update again and stopped checking
Very rude!!! I just want to keep the challenge!!! That's a perfectly natural impulse!!!
so when do i unlock a class with holy sword and don't tell me i can't because i will cry
This is how I build all my TTRPG characters btw
Who needs brain cells when you have SWORD
Absolutely! Does Content Promotion give you power to threadmark things in someone's thread or do you need me to do it?
well hopefully there's no fucking eclipse in the cards for us here because i don't think i can show any of that in this christian thread
(but yeah, no, the comparison seems apt)
I'm surprised by it too!
My goal was to have Osric go down the Black Mage line and Gillian go down the White Mage line, but every time I prep for a new battle, I go into the menu and go "this time I'll change Gillian to a White Mage," then I look at the Chemist's Items list and I'm like "okay but throwing around Hi-Potions is really convenient and since she already has Phoenix Down unlocked I don't have to spend several fights getting enough JP for Raise..." and then I end up keeping her a Chemist.
But the result is that I have completely stalled on advancing the White Mage line of jobs, so I need to swallow the inconvenience and go through with it... Just, I'd love to unlock Auto-Potion first.
Also I ended up spending a chunk of Gillian's JP into Treasure Hunter, which for non-players is an ability that 'discovers items hidden on tiles upon moving to them,' and that ended up a complete waste of JP because it turns out every battle screen has like one specific tile with items hidden in it so I need to 1) have a guide open to know where it is and 2) have Gillian just go off wandering around to get that item instead of staying in the fight to help and I can't afford that. So that stings a bit.
the people yearn for Final Fantasy IX's fixed class system
and like a dick, i instead took us to final fantasy tactics and delayed IX by several months
as a joke
a prank
a jest, if you will
I don't know if I should look that up because I don't have any basis of comparison - since I never played the original game there's nothing for the spells to be slower than so it hasn't bothered me yet.
It's genuinely kind of impressive how Advance's Ivalice is just kind of like, a no place. It has no meaningful history, no politics, basically no culture that we're aware of, and because of the nature of the game, you never visit a town or talk to random citizens or anything like that. Tactics so far has such density of writing that it's easy to see the world it's constructed upon even if you can't explore that world, but Advance doesn't do that, so there's just nothing there.
"Ivalice is a place where some people form into Clans who fight each other under a special system of rules enforced by magical Judges, it has a king" is like, the full extent of not just its world building, but even the vibes of the world, its feel, what it's like to be in. Marche isn't interested in this world which he's setting out to destroy anyway, and the the game fundamentally agrees with him.
And sure, for a dream world conjured up by a child this makes some degree of sense, but like... Damn that's boring.
I am extremely curious what will happen to the EN script of the game if the leaks around a Remaster are legit.
On the one hand, we know that the Squeenix EN of today is clearly in continuity with Reeder and Slattery's approach to WotL; a lot of its dialogue is reminiscent of XIV's writing style.
On the other hand, there seems to be a lot of little nuances that have been papered over by the WotL translation applying the same archaic, theatrical writing style to all dialogue for most of its characters. I would be wholly unaware of these nuances between which characters get assigned the more theatrical style in Japanese and which don't without your overview, and the fact that 'launching into a Shakespearian soliloquy' is something that characters do sometimes in a very noticeable way, rather than being their basic, default way of speaking at all times, is really interesting and could be brought out in EN with a slightly different approach to the translation as well.
It's really helping me see why Return to Ivalice was framed around the device of a theatre troupe! This sounds like a play someone is performing!
You can only blame yourself or God for not being Agrias. Start weeping. (I don't actually know but I wasn't about to pass up the chance.)
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