Let's Play Every Final Fantasy Game In Order Of Release [Now Finished: Final Fantasy Tactics]

Yes, that is absolutely correct.

I just don't enjoy old-school random encounter-based gameplay. Which is not the same thing as saying I don't enjoy Final Fantasy gameplay; when the games are actually serving challenging encounters with interesting mechanics that force me to actually use my toolkit, I enjoy it a lot. But 99% of the game is instead spent deleting the same pointless random encounters, and that's a major reason why I spend most of my Final Fantasy playtime listening to podcasts. There's nothing there, it's just pushing buttons until it's over. The QoL features of the Pixel Remaster have been a huge boon to my experience of the game and I have been missing them since I started FF7. One of the reasons I was looking into emulating the game towards the start was because they have the option to accelerate the game, so dealing with all that stuff would have been a lot faster.
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Interestingly though, that's a change from where I was as a child/teenager. Younger me's standard approach to Pokémon gameplay, for instance, was to just grind forever until all my Pokémons were several levels above the next gym and then roll over the opposition with overwhelming power. I can't really do that anymore. @foamy talked about grinding his way to having all LBs unlocked before Junon and one-shotting Bottomswell and, meaning no offense, the very idea makes me die inside. I am already kind of regretting doing some backtracking earlier in this playthrough and incidentally pushing my characters a few levels up in the process because at this stage even the bosses are too easy.
I literally think it's because of Dark Souls, I watched you change in real time as you played that game when you were, what, 21? You were so excited about that AI and the challenge in the gameplay and how it made you think and it was like watching a switch flip in your brain. How you talked about games in general started changing a bit around that time, and it got moreso with Bloodborne and DS3.

Correct me if I'm wrong, of course, it's been years and I couldn't _actually_ see your brain XD
 
Yes, that is absolutely correct.

I just don't enjoy old-school random encounter-based gameplay. Which is not the same thing as saying I don't enjoy Final Fantasy gameplay; when the games are actually serving challenging encounters with interesting mechanics that force me to actually use my toolkit, I enjoy it a lot. But 99% of the game is instead spent deleting the same pointless random encounters, and that's a major reason why I spend most of my Final Fantasy playtime listening to podcasts. There's nothing there, it's just pushing buttons until it's over. The QoL features of the Pixel Remaster have been a huge boon to my experience of the game and I have been missing them since I started FF7. One of the reasons I was looking into emulating the game towards the start was because they have the option to accelerate the game, so dealing with all that stuff would have been a lot faster.

By contrast, while I never went very far into Persona 5, its combination of non-random encounters (enemies are entities on the map that you fight by running into) and complex gameplay where you want to actually care about which abilities you're using on which opponents because of elemental affinities and such made it a lot more fun to play through, as I remember it anyway.

Interestingly though, that's a change from where I was as a child/teenager. Younger me's standard approach to Pokémon gameplay, for instance, was to just grind forever until all my Pokémons were several levels above the next gym and then roll over the opposition with overwhelming power. I can't really do that anymore. @foamy talked about grinding his way to having all LBs unlocked before Junon and one-shotting Bottomswell and, meaning no offense, the very idea makes me die inside. I am already kind of regretting doing some backtracking earlier in this playthrough and incidentally pushing my characters a few levels up in the process because at this stage even the bosses are too easy.

The random encounters are at least more spread out than in previous games, separated by large chunks of pure plot; our last update consisted for the most part of a couple of fights early on where I tested Neo Bahamut, then Jenova-DEATH, then it's nothing but cutscenes for half an hour. This makes the pacing of the gameplay weird. It also means that between these long stretches of plot and the random encounters, FF7 is much, much longer than previous games by a pretty fair margin and is a rather chonky endeavour to play through. If the game's writing wasn't so compelling, I would maybe struggle with finishing this Let's Play! On the other hand, the sheer density of the writing is why every update is over 5,000 words individually and it's taking so much time and things would go faster if the game were less dense, so who knows.
Honestly I think this is an FF7 problem and not an 'old-school random-encounter-based' problem, stemming both from the context of coming off the Pixel Remasters and the consequences of the shift to ATB.

First, the Pixel Remasters have autobattle, as you've mentioned. That massively speeds up the process of random encounters weak enough for you to not try. It's also the fact that the Pixel Remasters are modern games on modern hardware that only have to load sprites. They can be in and out in a flash, whether you're loading a fight with nine dudes or a spell or a summon or whatever the hell, no need to call up 3D models and environments that strained the PS1's hardware so badly that the giant unremovable menu taking up a third of the screen was saving valuable resources to render the other two thirds. FF7 isn't snappy because it can't be snappy, not while outputting what it did at the time it did on the hardware it did - except in the way that really counts, because on original hardware all the menus and UI run at 60fps because hey it turns out high framerates are very responsive and are important for making using menus feel good crazy how that happens, modern devs where menus run at like 25 and still drop inputs if you go too fast.

Second, the ATB system. I do not like the ATB system. I didn't like it when the Pixel Remasters first switched at FF4 and almost beating FF5 still wasn't enough to make me more than Tolerate it. FF7 improves the system by letting you queue up actions before a character's bar fills, but at the end of the day the fundamental irony of ATB that always sticks in my craw is that the Active Time Battle system is a lot more inactive. You gotta wait. For everything. In realtime. Every single fight you start, great or small, unless somebody gets a Pre-emptive Attack off, you just wait. Battle starts and everyone stands there jelking until somebody's bar fills first. And then after that turn happens, you wait a little more for the next bar to fill. And so on. Meanwhile in a pure turnbased RPG you can just... go. You hit buttons for actions, and if it's not your turn the other guy is doing things you probably have to pay attention to. I feel like I'm going insane every time I have to think or talk about this because it's so backwards but it's also so completely obvious that ATB slows down a menu-battler RPG yet nobody really talks about it.

Third thing, random encounters vs overworld enemies. It depends on the specific style of game because they all have their tradeoffs, I simply refuse the notion that random encounters are inherently more primitive or worse design than having enemies roaming around the map you can dodge. Everyone likes to grouse about random encounters, and they would certainly be justified in the likes of FF2 where the devs go "uh choose one of sixteen doors one is progress the other 15 drop you in a box and a random encounter triggers as you try to leave the box, fuck you", but the fact of it is that when there are random encounters set at a certain rate and running from battles isn't guaranteed the devs can be certain that your party will be within a certain range of power after travelling from point A to point B. Therefore they can design the mandatory encounters while assuming a certain minimum and median range of player power. They can also design the environments differently - every single one of FF7's dungeons, with their lavish and memorable prerendered backdrops, would have to be wildly different in a timeline in which all encounters are lil polygonal guys roaming around on top that the devs always had to include enough room for you to rope-a-dope and slip past. Doing this badly, especially in concert with having fights take place on the same map instead of warping you to another dimension, easily leads to bland Anal Bead Level Design where it's nothing but wide combat rooms connected by a chain of small hallways.

Oftentimes RPGs with visible wandering mooks place the onus of grinding on the player in a way I don't like. While playing DQ11 I was often asking myself how much I was supposed to be fighting, as the enemies were usually so easy to slip past outside of particularly narrow dungeons that sneaking to a boss woefully underlevelled to get pasted would in fact be quite easy (which leads to absolute mouthbreathers like Dunkey going 'uh i avoided every fight and then couldn't beat da boss 0/10 bad game'), and if ever you approach the strategy of just killing all the enemies directly in your path then you've effectively returned to random encounters just with extra steps. The grinding is also a particular problem with the likes of Persona, where those games effectively revolve around 'we won't force you to do these fights, we'll just look at you meaningfully from the corner like a sleep paralysis demon because the month's mandatory boss fight is coming and we won't tell you what the target number is, so how strong you get before then is between you and Jesus'.

There's also the concept of rationing resources, which is a valid layer of gameplay to make a player consider when presenting them with the challenge of going A to B in a dungeon. Omi has mentioned being able to simply erase encounters from existence with summons which also cost a whole lot of MP so he can't do it every time - that's a thing the devs wanted him thinking about. Making constant small decisions about how many of your resources to expend over the course of a dungeon crawl with no idea how many fights you still have left over the course of your trip to a destination you also don't know traces right back to the core of the D&D games FF has been inspired by from the very begining. It's the original fighter/mage dichotomy, with martials being able to do good damage for free forever while casters do more varied and impressive things for resources! If all encounters are on the overworld and can all be dodged then that's... just not anything, any more. The question of 'do i have enough to make it' is gone because the answer is always 'yes' because you will never be pressured to expend those resources unless you severely fuck up kiting an enemy or something. You will never have to think about your resources except while constantly nuking everything in your sight, either while pushing mandatory encounters or while stopping to grind because avoiding everything left you underlevelled. Notably this is a strategy layer that Persona very much keeps at the fore because of how heavily the games' combat systems revolve around using MP and how sparse restorative items and refill stations are for how deep you have to push to hit progress, as well as regular door boss encounters on the way through discrete chunks of Tartarus/TV dungeons/Palaces as well as pre-P5 dungeons all being procgen so God gets to decide if enemies are actually dodgeable or not.

Like, there can be a unique catharsis in choosing to expend a resource that is not so easily regained because everything aligns and you judge the situation worthy of it. It's not a turn-based RPG, but I can attest to a great deal of satisfaction in Samurai Remnant whenever I would come across an encounter with a particularly annoying kind of enemy, like a giant fox-demon or a yokai lantern, and just saying "no, die" as I hit the Noble Phantasm button.
 
But, at the same time, Chrono Trigger stands as a counterexaple in that you can do it and do it extremely well.



Another thought: If the random battles are tedious and the bosses are feeling too easy, you could always just run from all the non-boss fights for a while @Omicron :V
 
Making enemies present on the map improves RPGs in every way even if the rest of mechanics stay exactly the same.
Hell, just adding ways to play with the random encounters in a more traditional "get ambushed as you walk around" can do wonders. For example, Cthulhu Saves The World has a mechanic where every dungeon has a limited number of total encounters, and you can go to the menu any time you want to trigger one if you want to grind them out. Or if you don't, iirc the game doesn't really have recovery items and instead restores full HP + a variable amount of MP depending on how fast you cleared the encounter, incentivising figuring out strats to defeat the enemy in a single turn if possible. Also, this gates you from powerleveling too much because after a point you just plain run out of things to fight.

Or there's Wild Arms 3, where you get a meter that's effectively "Screw that random battle I'm in the middle of something" that you can spend out of, and can upgrade as the game goes on until you can completely negate weaker encounters if you want to.

Second, the ATB system. I do not like the ATB system.
Dont worry, I'm pretty sure dumping on the ATB system is a time honored tradition among Final Fantasy fans, I can distinctly remember seeing many shitposts and criticisms about itnback in the day before Final Fantasy started getting experimental with it again.

FFX best battle system in the series, btw, perfect blend of turn based "everyone chooses something then IDK hope you go first" and "what if turns but also speed and stuff matters?

...actually come to think of it FFT operates on a similar great wavelength with it's combat system. When did Tactics release again, so we can slot it inbetween other FF games in the LP based on release date?
 
Hell, just adding ways to play with the random encounters in a more traditional "get ambushed as you walk around" can do wonders. For example, Cthulhu Saves The World has a mechanic where every dungeon has a limited number of total encounters, and you can go to the menu any time you want to trigger one if you want to grind them out. Or if you don't, iirc the game doesn't really have recovery items and instead restores full HP + a variable amount of MP depending on how fast you cleared the encounter, incentivising figuring out strats to defeat the enemy in a single turn if possible. Also, this gates you from powerleveling too much because after a point you just plain run out of things to fight.

Or there's Wild Arms 3, where you get a meter that's effectively "Screw that random battle I'm in the middle of something" that you can spend out of, and can upgrade as the game goes on until you can completely negate weaker encounters if you want to.


Dont worry, I'm pretty sure dumping on the ATB system is a time honored tradition among Final Fantasy fans, I can distinctly remember seeing many shitposts and criticisms about itnback in the day before Final Fantasy started getting experimental with it again.

FFX best battle system in the series, btw, perfect blend of turn based "everyone chooses something then IDK hope you go first" and "what if turns but also speed and stuff matters?

...actually come to think of it FFT operates on a similar great wavelength with it's combat system. When did Tactics release again, so we can slot it inbetween other FF games in the LP based on release date?
After 7 and before 8. 7 in January 1997, Tactics in June 1997, 8 in February 1999.

1998 was non-FF titles not relevant to the thread, most notably Parasite Eve and Xenogears
 
This part of the story reminds me a fair bit of Xenoblade Chronicles 1, and that's all I'm gonna say for fear of spoiling people.
 
This is a bit late but I don't know about the other games but I know the final fantasy x / final fantasy X2 remaster for the PlayStation and steam has the quality of life features
 
In fact, the Switch port of FFVII has the QoL features.

Not auto-battle as such, but battle speed (up to x3, if I recall), the ability to effectively auto-battle by having the game accept the player holding down the Confirm button for standard "Fight" input, and options for full HP, MP, and Limit Bar all the time.
 
options for full HP, MP, and Limit Bar all the time.
I feel like "enabling cheats" isn't a quality of life feature, it's, well, enabling cheats. There's not really any point in playing a game whose main challenge is "don't get killed" if you make yourself invincible, or in playing a game which includes carefully balancing resources as part of the difficulty if you give yourself infinite resources. Or, at least, that's how I feel about it.
 
I feel like "enabling cheats" isn't a quality of life feature, it's, well, enabling cheats. There's not really any point in playing a game whose main challenge is "don't get killed" if you make yourself invincible, or in playing a game which includes carefully balancing resources as part of the difficulty if you give yourself infinite resources. Or, at least, that's how I feel about it.
Eh, from the sound of it FFVII's challenge is pretty anemic anyway, so removing the busywork to focus on the story (and minigames, so...make that "some of the busywork") doesn't exactly seem like it'd be depriving you of the core experience or anything.
 
Eh, from the sound of it FFVII's challenge is pretty anemic anyway, so removing the busywork to focus on the story (and minigames, so...make that "some of the busywork") doesn't exactly seem like it'd be depriving you of the core experience or anything.

I found the challenge level with most FFs to be on the low end with a very very high end challenge doing the superbosses (which i dont usually do)
 
I feel like "enabling cheats" isn't a quality of life feature, it's, well, enabling cheats. There's not really any point in playing a game whose main challenge is "don't get killed" if you make yourself invincible, or in playing a game which includes carefully balancing resources as part of the difficulty if you give yourself infinite resources. Or, at least, that's how I feel about it.
Are you really going to say farming trash mob random encounters for EXP, Gil (for new equipment), and the millions of AP required to master the various Materia in the game is "the main challenge"?
 
Are you really going to say farming trash mob random encounters for EXP, Gil (for new equipment), and the millions of AP required to master the various Materia in the game is "the main challenge"?
I think Egleris was referring more to the "Full HP, MP, and Limit bar" then the autobattle.

Mind, I loved using cheats, had the game genie and game shark when I was younger and enjoyed the hell out of them. People enjoy games in different ways.
 
I think Egleris was referring more to the "Full HP, MP, and Limit bar" then the autobattle.
Yes, that was my point - hence why I only quoted that section.

Mind, I loved using cheats, had the game genie and game shark when I was younger and enjoyed the hell out of them. People enjoy games in different ways.
That's.... fair; I won't say I've never used cheats, that'd be false. However, I think it would be fair to say that using cheats means playing a different game than the standard version, not unlike applying a mod to the game.

A Tomb Raider game played with all the weapons and unlimited ammo might still be challenging since you still have to tackle the (often deadly) platforming sections, and perhaps more fun (in that you're using the grenade launcher to explode every single enemy you come across), but not having to ration munitions or to look for places from where you can fire on the enemy with the low-power weapons that have more ammo without them being able to kill you because you just annihilate every enemy is a very different play experience than the game is supposed to offer.
 
Fun story: When I was a kid, video game magazines did a lot of neat promotional stuff, like coming packaged with demo discs... Or with pre-loaded memory cards; I beat Metal Gear Solid way younger than I should have been playing it thanks to one of these cards coming with completed game saves for the infinite ammo bandana and the invisibility suit, making the game infinitely easier on my poor child brain who barely understood the concept of 'stealth.' Good times.
 
Honestly, there's nothing wrong with having cheats or broken saves in a single player game? I get the argument that at that point you aren't actually engaging with the game's mechanics... but at least FFVII is from a series that also totes itself on its story, not just its gameplay. As long as someone doesn't do the infinitely silly "Oh the game was really easy once I turned on infinite health mode, everyone who can't beat it just needs to Git Gud" in online discussions I'm not going to care all that much.

And of course there's also a difference between QoL things like autobattle and speeding fights up, and cheats like giving the entire party unlimited Limit, HP, and MP.
 
I think it would be fair to say that using cheats means playing a different game than the standard version, not unlike applying a mod to the game.
I'm kind of an "Upgrade Complete" guy. I played RTSs to build my way through the various infrastructure and unit trees (When I first played Starcraft, my little brain couldn't quite handle not being able to put all the additional structures on the same Terran command center) with the occasional "Oh yeah, I'm supposed to be fighting someone."

Of course playing Simsomethings I'd build up just to wreck everything.
 
I think Egleris was referring more to the "Full HP, MP, and Limit bar" then the autobattle.
Yes, that was my point - hence why I only quoted that section.
Yeah and that's the part I was saying was relevant to farming trash mobs so you can kill them off as quick as possible when you're thrust into yet another random battle barely five steps after the last battle (and you can disable it at any point when you're done grinding) :V

Since unlike FF9's port it doesn't have a "cheat" to skip the AP grind once you acquire the relevant materia.
 
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Yeah and that's the part I was saying was relevant to farming trash mobs so you can kill them off as quick as possible when you're thrust into yet another random battle barely five steps after the last battle (and you can disable it at any point when you're done grinding) :V

Since unlike FF9's port it doesn't have a "cheat" to skip the AP grind once you acquire the relevant materia.

Fun fact: One of the prizes at the Battle Square is a materia that increases enemy encounter rate.

It also penalizes the Luck stat of whomever has it equipped.
 
Yeah and that's the part I was saying was relevant to farming trash mobs so you can kill them off as quick as possible when you're thrust into yet another random battle barely five steps after the last battle (and you can disable it at any point when you're done grinding)
That's not a quality of life upgrade you're talking about, at all. If you're grinding, then you're grinding, and the amount of encounters you have to face is not a fault of the game (which the "avoid encounters" discussion was about), it's your own fault. If you don't want to grind, then don't, and if you want to cheat, then cheating the grinding or cheating the boss battle (so, fighting the boss battle with everything maximized) is not in any way qualitatively different.

Omicron complaint was about being forced to fight when not wanting to, and the boredom of the encounters, which you (you here being the developer/mod creator) fix by crafting better encounters, or by automating the parts of the fight which can be - ideally both. Cheats do neither.

I feel like there must be some miscommunication going on here, between what I mean and what you mean, because I think this being my position was clear from my last post, and it's fine if you disagree, but it feels like you think I've not understood what you were saying, which I'm pretty sure I did.
 
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Settle down folks. We all know the debate around cheat codes/easy mode/content skipping/exploits is as easy and as simple as developing gameplay systems that are 100% engaging and accessible all the time and will never get tedious, and that appeal to everyone everywhere, all the time, forever.

Duh.
 
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