Let's Play Every Final Fantasy Game In Order Of Release [Now Finished: Final Fantasy Tactics]

I find the backgrounds a bit cluttered and hard to parse, personally. Like, in this one:
It took me a bit of parsing to realize there was a door back there in the rusty blue thingy full of holes. Which I'm pretty sure is a wall, but there's a curved thing in the upper-left that makes me not be totally sure? Also there's a drainspout that's got a rusty skull pouring out of it.

That's probably just me, though.
 
That's probably just me, though
No, 7 is my favourite FF (yes, yes, it was also the one I first played) and some of those backgrounds are a pain to try and navigate.

Thankfully, there's a button that'll put an arrow over stuff like doors to help with that. Though there's a few hidden items that make use of the cluttered background to hide.
 
No, 7 is my favourite FF (yes, yes, it was also the one I first played) and some of those backgrounds are a pain to try and navigate.

Thankfully, there's a button that'll put an arrow over stuff like doors to help with that. Though there's a few hidden items that make use of the cluttered background to hide.

Ah yes, we're entering the era of "interactive prompts? You will press interact on every piece of slightly discolored background, young man, and you will like it!"
 
Thankfully, there's a button that'll put an arrow over stuff like doors to help with that. Though there's a few hidden items that make use of the cluttered background to hide.
Ah yes, we're entering the era of "interactive prompts? You will press interact on every piece of slightly discolored background, young man, and you will like it!"

It's the only way I ever managed to find my way through Cosmo Canyon.
 
Yeah, it really would be better if the places where something was present that could be interacted with were marked somehow - perhaps only when you were close enough to actually press the button, to preserve immersion.

Anyway, adding the full summary of the length of the various playthroughs for future reference, and so that it'll be easier to see how much longer than any of the preceding titles FFVII is, eventually.

FF - 7 threadmarks (no double update ones) - 18,2 k words
FF II - 12 threadmarks (5 double update ones) - 27,9 k words
FF III - 16 threadmarks (9 double update ones) - 44,8 k words
FF IV - 20 threadmarks (5 double update ones) - 69 k words
FF V - 30 threadmarks (12 double update ones) - 110 k words
FF VI - 26 threadmarks (5 double update ones) - 140,5 k words

Interesting that the "minimum of 5 double updates" has been maintained once again.

I did want to mention that I agree that Final Fantasy VI is a crazy ambitious game (emphasis on the crazy here) full of so much incredible stuff that it's hard to keep track, and that Kefka is the superior villain from what the first six games have to offer, even if it's annoying that half of his biggest moments happen because the writers say so rather than due to any serious development. There are great things in FFVI, they just aren't able to stand together - it's an example where the individual parts are superior to the whole, I think.

With that aside, it's time for my traditional transitional question between games!

The generational leap that came with the release of the Playstation, the advent of 3D, and the game that defined a generation of RPG and spawned its own entire franchise of spinoffs.

Final Fantasy VII.

So, what do you know about Final Fantasy VII? I imagine there's at least one or two big spoilers you've already been exposed to, but considering how many interesting things are there in Final Fantasy VII that are often not talked about (overshadowed by the big spoilers, often), I'm very curious to hear how much of this one have you been spoiled about. And it'd likely help people keep from spoiling things that they think have already been spoiled, but actually haven't been - which I suspect will be an even bigger problem than it was for Final Fantasy VI.

Yeah, the recent remake of FF7 isn't a remake, it's a whole AU of FF7
I maintain my opinion that the Final Fantasy 7 Remake is actually a sequel to the original Final Fantasy VII; the game is incomprehensible if you haven't played the original, and its narrative, while complete, is unsatisfying if you don't have the original to build off of.

Consider the difference with a true spin-off, like Dirge Of Cerberus; that's a bad game, but you don't need to have played Final Fantasy VII to understand it, the game is capable of standing on its own. Same with "Final Fantasy VII - Crisis Core"; it's a full game that tells its own complete story and doesn't need knowledge of the original to work (in fact it contradicts it in places, but so lightly that it's easy to overlook), although having said knowledge does (generally) improve it, making it an exceptionally good prequel.

Final Fantasy 7 Remake doesn't work as an independent game any more than "The Empire Strikes Back" works as an independent film. It is a complete story, mostly, with its own plot, but it's a plot that only fully makes sense with the previous installment in mind, making it a sequel. Probably the second-best sequel in the series, even (at least in my opinion, only FFX-2 is better in that special category), but a sequel nevertheless.
 
Final Fantasy 7 Remake doesn't work as an independent game any more than "The Empire Strikes Back" works as an independent film. It is a complete story, mostly, with its own plot, but it's a plot that only fully makes sense with the previous installment in mind, making it a sequel. Probably the second-best sequel in the series, even (at least in my opinion, only FFX-2 is better in that special category), but a sequel nevertheless.
I disagree somewhat, as I think the game hits too many of the same plot points. It works best if you know about the original, and some of the side material, but haven't really played the original game itself.

It's definitely a sequel though. The first game needs to have happened for half the things in the remake to make any sense.
 
Probably the second-best sequel in the series, even (at least in my opinion, only FFX-2 is better in that special category), but a sequel nevertheless.
Or the best, if you live with your parents, in which case its probably best to avoid FFX-2 altogether to avoid awkward questions. It has its virtues, but it also has 'virtues' better suited to QQ (massage minigame, I'm looking at you in particular but not exclusively).
 
So, what do you know about Final Fantasy VII? I imagine there's at least one or two big spoilers you've already been exposed to, but considering how many interesting things are there in Final Fantasy VII that are often not talked about (overshadowed by the big spoilers, often), I'm very curious to hear how much of this one have you been spoiled about. And it'd likely help people keep from spoiling things that they think have already been spoiled, but actually haven't been - which I suspect will be an even bigger problem than it was for Final Fantasy VI.
Keeping in mind some of these I may have heard years ago and be in error or mixing up some stuff...

Shinra is an evil corporation that is mining Mako, which is a magical oil metaphor but is also literally the lifestream of the planet.
Cloud, the main character, thinks he is an ex-SOLDIER (a super-soldier program) but is in actually a grunt who got implanted with the memories of his dead best friend for reasons.
Aerith, the girl selling flowers, is actually the last Ancient, which are a race of magical beings from long ago who are relevant to the plot somehow.
We start the game working for an ecoterrorist group called Avalanche, the leader of which is Barett, which also includes a number of extras dressed in green who all die when Shinra causes a disaster to blame us. Other party members include Tifa, a bar owner in the slums, Yuffie, a materia thief, Red XIII, a cat/dog(?), Vincent, who is a vampire, and a weird cat.
Sephiroth, the main antagonist, started out as a fairly chill guy for a corporate super-soldier and he and Cloud even palled around, until he discovered that his mom is from space and being used for experiments by Shinra's evil scientist, at which point he loses it; this somehow ends in him deciding to destroy the world for reasons I'm not clear on.

There is some additional smattering of stuff I couldn't possibly recite in full, like knowing there's a place called Wutai or that there is a casino called the Golden Saucer.

Mechanically, character advancement is done mostly through the materia system, in which you slot magic rocks into your gear and as you fight, you gain points which unlock that rock's powers for that character, so you have one character who has 100 points on that one Fire Materia and so can cast Firaga. The game also introduces Limit Breaks, which are special moves that deal extra damage you unlock after taking enough damage. There is otherwise no class/job system.
With all that said, I'm going to use a technique I've mastered over many years which is "convince myself that I have misheard, misunderstood, or don't know the context of the things that I do know so I can think of them as unreliable misinformation and approach the text with as close to a blank slate of expectations as is possible," in order to try and treat the game as much as is possible on its own terms as it was released in 1997 rather than as part of an established sub-franchise with its own spinoffs, expanded universe, and extra material.
 
I think I still vastly prefer FFV over FFVI, having seen both complete LPs.

I think my issue is that I just don't care about FFVI's characters. I played halfway through the game and I was into the characters, but seeing that none of them go anywhere just made me totally lose interest.

FFVI's characters feel like cool ideas that don't get fully explored.

Bartz, Faris, Lenna, and Galuf are my buds and I love them. I'd really rather take a very good, well made kid's cartoon about kids going on an adventure with some serious themes (Gravity Falls, for example) over a giant, overly complicated, fundamentally incomplete mess of genius.

I just feel like a crazy person, since everyone loves FFVI and FFV is basically forgotten.

FFV was hobbled by only being released widely in the US long after the PS1 generation was sucking the oxygen out of the room. It doesn't get the same nostalgia factor IV and VI get for that generation of gamers. Which is sad because it was a worthy game in the series and I enjoyed it.

I still place FFVI over it though, but it's my generation's great opus, and in retrospect FFVII wouldn't have quite the same appeal to me (though it did wow me at first, as it did the rest of us).

Edit P.S.: Omi, FFVI actually introduced Limit Breaks, but they're random moves that only trigger when a character is in critical HP status, so few knew this (I didn't for a long time). FFVII would make them a greater part of the gameplay mechanics.

As for FFX-2 discussion... for me it always holds a special place because "OMG an actual sequel to one of the entries!" But I don't deny the game was a lot of fanservice and cheesecake save some shining moments of actual character. But to stay spoilerfree I won't say more.
 
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The game also introduces Limit Breaks, which are special moves that deal extra damage you unlock after taking enough damage. There is otherwise no class/job system.
Fun fact that I already got Ninja'd on but feel like talking about anyways: It was mentioned briefly before during the FFVI playthrough, but FFVI is actually the first game in the series to have limit breaks.

It's just that the likelyhood of ever seeing a limit break in FFVI is ludicrously low, because instead of being tied to anything like a bar that increases on damage dealt/taken, it occurs entirely at random only when selecting the attack command, in the critical/low health status, and the battle has already lasted longer than about 25 seconds (presumably meant to IDK keep you from using intentional limit spamming strats).

But hey, since we're done with FFVI now, that means I can just post a video!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyH3XdtGUNY
 
Or the best, if you live with your parents, in which case its probably best to avoid FFX-2 altogether to avoid awkward questions.
I mean, back when it came out (which was... 20 years ago...) I played the game together with my mom, and we didn't find anything objectionable in it; if anything, we had fun with the approach the game took to fashion. And besides, it isn't like FF7R is without its own "raunchy" elements, is it?

convince myself that I have misheard, misunderstood, or don't know the context of the things that I do know so I can think of them as unreliable misinformation
That indeed seems like the best approach, yes. I am a bit surprised at the sheer amount of information there, but there's still plenty which you didn't mention, and I think at least a couple surprises, so I'll be looking forwards to those. Plus, experiencing the game is always different from having heard from it, like the FFVI issue with knowing in advance that Kefka's destroys the world proved.
 
I mean, back when it came out (which was... 20 years ago...) I played the game together with my mom, and we didn't find anything objectionable in it; if anything, we had fun with the approach the game took to fashion. And besides, it isn't like FF7R is without its own "raunchy" elements, is it?
My guy, if you were able to sit there in a room with your mother playing the massage minigame where a woman dressed in approximately ten square inches of clothing massages another woman to jack her satisfaction meter up while the latter woman cries out "Ooooh, so nice~", I think you might have a bit of a different relationship with your mother than the rest of us.
 
@Tempera: I'm sorry to hear that; being unable to play videogames with family members feels like a sad situation to me, but I suppose to each their own.

As for the massage minigame in FFX-2:

Leblanc is dressed like that the whole game, if we weren't shocked by then we'd hardly become shocked at that point. And the minigame itself is really not that suggestive (certainly not compared to the Honey Inn section in both original Final Fantasy VII and even more so the Remake with its enhanced graphics) it's mostly just noises. I didn't find anything erotic in it, and my mom was mostly annoyed with how hard it was to get a perfect score rather than anything else.
And setting that aside, I want you consider that you're trying imply very unpleasant things about myself and my family; do you realize how rude and offensive it is to suggest such things, especially when I did nothing to deserve that, and that the accusation is completely groundless. It's a very vulgar thing to think about somebody else you don't even know, and I suggest you reconsider the way you talk with people if a comment like "me and my mom played videogames together 20 years ago and didn't think this one game was all that raunchy" puts that kind of thoughts into your head. It's incredibly offensive.
 
And setting that aside, I want you consider that you're trying imply very unpleasant things about myself and my family; do you realize how rude and offensive it is to suggest such things, especially when I did nothing to deserve that, and that the accusation is completely groundless. It's a very vulgar thing to think about somebody else you don't even know, and I suggest you reconsider the way you talk with people if a comment like "me and my mom played videogames together 20 years ago and didn't think this one game was all that raunchy" puts that kind of thoughts into your head. It's incredibly offensive.
I can absolutely apologize and take the L. It was intended as a humorous-if-crude comment on the actually quite risque nature of the scene, but there's jokes I can make with friends and there's things I can post towards strangers who don't know me. That caused offense, and understandably so, and for that I do offer an apology.

In turn, please never condescend to me again about the way I talk with people. That's very offensive to me, and I do not appreciate it.

That's all; I'll dip from the thread now, enjoy the rest of the LP. Please don't worry about a response if you'd thought about making one while reading this, it's not worth derailing the thread further.

Minor edit: That may have sounded more hostile than intended; I just don't want to drag personal issues out longer when they're not the topic or focus of the thread.
 
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I've been going back through this thread to catch up on the earlier LPs, and this screenshot and caption from FF2 got me thinking:



I love this fucked up design. Look at their faces! Their helmets! They're cartoon characters.

Wait, cartoony pirates whose artstyle looks different from everyone else, and the game's being reviewed by a Frenchman? I can't help but get Les Mondes Engloutis (a.k.a Spartakus and the Sun Beneath the Sea) vibes from this
 
Keeping in mind some of these I may have heard years ago and be in error or mixing up some stuff...

Shinra is an evil corporation that is mining Mako, which is a magical oil metaphor but is also literally the lifestream of the planet.
Cloud, the main character, thinks he is an ex-SOLDIER (a super-soldier program) but is in actually a grunt who got implanted with the memories of his dead best friend for reasons.
Aerith, the girl selling flowers, is actually the last Ancient, which are a race of magical beings from long ago who are relevant to the plot somehow.
We start the game working for an ecoterrorist group called Avalanche, the leader of which is Barett, which also includes a number of extras dressed in green who all die when Shinra causes a disaster to blame us. Other party members include Tifa, a bar owner in the slums, Yuffie, a materia thief, Red XIII, a cat/dog(?), Vincent, who is a vampire, and a weird cat.
Sephiroth, the main antagonist, started out as a fairly chill guy for a corporate super-soldier and he and Cloud even palled around, until he discovered that his mom is from space and being used for experiments by Shinra's evil scientist, at which point he loses it; this somehow ends in him deciding to destroy the world for reasons I'm not clear on.

There is some additional smattering of stuff I couldn't possibly recite in full, like knowing there's a place called Wutai or that there is a casino called the Golden Saucer.

Mechanically, character advancement is done mostly through the materia system, in which you slot magic rocks into your gear and as you fight, you gain points which unlock that rock's powers for that character, so you have one character who has 100 points on that one Fire Materia and so can cast Firaga. The game also introduces Limit Breaks, which are special moves that deal extra damage you unlock after taking enough damage. There is otherwise no class/job system.
With all that said, I'm going to use a technique I've mastered over many years which is "convince myself that I have misheard, misunderstood, or don't know the context of the things that I do know so I can think of them as unreliable misinformation and approach the text with as close to a blank slate of expectations as is possible," in order to try and treat the game as much as is possible on its own terms as it was released in 1997 rather than as part of an established sub-franchise with its own spinoffs, expanded universe, and extra material.

FF7 is funny because despite having never played it I know like way too much because it has a bunch big fanworks like an Abridged by the same crew as Dragon Ball and the stuff done by Tim Rogers that I just consumed and enjoyed without any context.
 
Final Fantasy 7 Remake doesn't work as an independent game any more than "The Empire Strikes Back" works as an independent film. It is a complete story, mostly, with its own plot, but it's a plot that only fully makes sense with the previous installment in mind, making it a sequel. Probably the second-best sequel in the series, even (at least in my opinion, only FFX-2 is better in that special category), but a sequel nevertheless.

Honestly I'd say FF7R is both a sequel and a remake in the exact same way Pathologic 2 is both and neither; the same stage, the same beats, some old actors reprising their roles and some new ones making their debut, but a whole new production of the play, with a much higher special effects budget this time and the opportunity to futz with the script a little. FFVI has the theatre metaphor coming from inside the house already but I think it works well in a metatexual sense for the way FF7R is in conversation with it's predecessor and the audience here.

(Though as you point out, it does assume said audience already knows the rough outline of it; I'd say the game was enough of a cultural phenomenon this is self-confidence, as opposed to hubris. Confession time: I first encountered FF7R knowing nothing about the original apart from the first few scenes or so from the Abridged series mentioned above; it still parsed fairly well to me, although parts of the end didn't make sense until I saw an LP of KHII and was like 'oh'.)

I'm kind of hoping a term for this sort of rendition catches on because I have a premonition we're going to be seeing a lot more of it happening in the future, where old games get not just remade to be as faithful as possible, but retold. Others here have pointed out FFVI would do really well with this treatment and I absolutely agree.
 
Well, with FF7 Remake there's the additional issue of the Whispers and fucking with the timeline/introducing new events. It's like Rebuild of Evangelion where it's almost like everyone's souls got reincarnated and vaguely get that they've done this before. Especially Aerith, who seems to have explicit foreknowledge of the plot. It is absolutely not the "real" Final Fantasy VII just told in a new way with edits and higher production values, it's a sequel wearing the skin of a retelling.
 
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Given that the FF7 Remake is functionally a weird AU/sequel/thing to FF7, I think that's enough discussion of it in this thread, unless it's to talk about Jessie, who is my wife btw
 
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