Let's Play Every Final Fantasy Game In Order Of Release [Now Finished: Final Fantasy Tactics]

I am happy. My favourite FF is coming in the LP.

A lot has already been said and even if I have a lot to say about it too (like how to lose your save by using an adaptator...), I will keep it short, so, one personnal funny thing from young me :


I have always saw the Emperor sprite as a dude who has a dog head and a hat.
Let me explain (and thx for the screen) :
The hairs on each side of the head ? The ears of the dog.
The black dot below the mustache ? The truffle.
The white mustache ? The chops.

Even today, I can only see a dog in this sprite. And young me was unable to understand how come this dog head was the emperor of a country who seems to have only humans. I have imagined that he was wearing a mask. But I have no idea why he has to wear a mask. I have think he has something special. But I don't find anything about it. And finally, I have abandoned to find a reason, just tag along by thinking it was a japanese thing. A little weird to have the boss vilain to have a dog face for no reason, but hey, why not ? Who I am to judge ?

So, finally today, I can mourn the emperor dog sprite, and embrace him for who he truly is : a human sprite.

...

Nah, I will keep imagining him with a dog face, it's funnier this way !
 
I was just going to ask why the evil empire had their mind controlled puppet witch dressed in the latest fashions instead of a drab yet intimidating uniform, but now it makes sense. And makes it all the more creepy when you imagine Kefka using her as a life size dress up doll.
Gods, I can't remember if it was just from what we've seen so far, or later stuff too, but
especially when I played through later in life, the impression I got was that it was much worse than just playing dressup, even if you discount the whole "forced to repeatedly commit mass murder" thing. Can't remember if it was just from what we've already seen, or if there was later stuff that did it, though. Stick a pin in that thought, the ladies in particular in FF6 have it pretty rough.
 
I mean, she was under the mind control of someone who dresses like a clown. It's not surprising that she's got some... questionable fashion choices going on.
I was just going to ask why the evil empire had their mind controlled puppet witch dressed in the latest fashions instead of a drab yet intimidating uniform, but now it makes sense. And makes it all the more creepy when you imagine Kefka using her as a life size dress up doll.
Sounds like he needs to make her call him "Puddin'" and they're set...

I'm just joking. Kefka has even less care for minions than Joker does.

Speaking if, has anyone come across any mods where they replace Kefka's laughter with the Joker's (any version)? I know it's basically sacrilege to replace the now-legendary laughter, but I'm fully convinced Kefka is an alternate universe Joker, but without a Batman to take him down.
 
The less creepy alternate explanation is that the clown-like style that Kefka and Terra wear is some kind of imperial wizard regalia.
 
Remember, we know the empire had Terra since she was very young, and the tests with magic infusion that turned Kefka into what he is now could only have started once she was older like 10 and safer to run experiments on. It would be reasonable to think that Kefka could have been a relatively stable individual for a while. He was a general, presumably well adjusted enough to qualify for the position just as Leo and Celes did; maybe even was a sort of guardian for Terra who helped her develop her fashion style. And the use of the slave crown seems to have been relatively recent given the flashback used Terra's adult sprite, not her as a baby or a children. The slave crown of course turned to have scrambled her brain like an egg..

Not canon but there's a neat little fic, Dead Man's Logic (great stuff, go read it, DON'T GO READ IT YET OMI) that has some small tidbits on the relationship the two (might have) had before Kefka went cucco, and that I find both funny and reasonably compatible with canon.

Not sure how much Omicron knows from immersion but all that Kafka and Terra backstory that hasn't come up yet in-game is a spoiler.
 
I know we're all excited to finally get to FF6, but can we maybe avoid derailing into not only full spoilerposts of things that won't come up for another two dozen updates, but also linking post-FF6 fanfics on the subject?

I mean don't get me wrong, there's plenty I want to discuss even just from the first update, I'm suppressing doing a full writeup on Edgar's character and how he compares to Edge as the "Prince that hits on all the ladies" archetype, but as always part of the fun of a blind playthrough is letting Omi form some of his own opinions on the subject and then talking about it.
 
We know that the Empire did three magic infusions, creating Kefka, Celes, and Leo. Kefka was was infused with a lot of magic as an adult, which broke his mind. Leo was infused with a small amount of magic, which left him sane, but much weaker. Celes was infused as a child with a lot of magic, presumably with the thought that a kid's brain could handle it. The infusions can't have been much sooner than fifteen years ago because Celes was explicitly a response to Kefka being a nutcase and Leo being weak, and she was infused as a young child. She and Terra are both 18, remember.

Sorry about the wall of spoilers boss, I just need something to let off steam or I'll vibrate to the centre of the Earth in excitement.
 
Will try not to spoil things too badly, though I will make one piece of advice about Figaro - when you get back there, make sure you have Edgar with you when you get to the shops.
If memory serves you'll get a discount on stuff (after a little arguing between the King and his subjects about how they can't charge him, he's the King, and he shoots back that they've got families to feed, so shut up and take his money).

It also shows that Edgar has a clearly defined moral code. Sure, that little girl may have been told that of course he'll marry her when she's older but it's much more in line with indulging a crush with a verbal statement that will never come to pass.

So much good stuff to come!
'Bring Edgar to the shops' isn't a spoiler, but I feel like when you start listing out dialogue and what it means for the characters, that definitely is.
 
All the comments about missable stuff and my own current experiences with some stuff from the next couple of hours make me think that the 'Make sure to bring X to Y to not miss Z!'-thinking might be inappropriate for this game. Experiencing everything seems like it would require always having a walk-through open while doing tons of backtracking. Just not worrying about it seems a lot more fun.

Which also makes sense on a meta level. With the early games I can totally see stuff like 'The Devs did not consider you would just walk past X, which is not mandatory, but the only source of exposition about Y. That missing context is why you are now so confused about Z in the main story', but we are now at the 6th part. At this point Square had worked within the genre for almost a decade and likely had employees who were introduced to the franchise as players. Optional stuff at this point is deliberate and the """real FF6 experience""" consists of stumbling upon whatever chunk of it during regular gameplay, not of trying to 'experience them all'.
 
Is it just me, or does this map look an awful lot like the FFV world map?
I don't know if it's just you, but to me they look completely different. FFV has a smaller central sea around which four continents are arranged in a diamond, with the large ones being in the southern left and northern right corners, while those in the other two corners are smaller and more acting as connectors for the two main ones, and then a tiny island chain/strip of land further to the southern right corner, while FFVI has a massive continent in the top left corner, then a long vertical continent taking up two thirds of the right side of the map with a istmus connection to it, and then there's a third, smaller southern continent. The map it does reminds me of? FFVIII. Mark another tack in the "FFVIII is intended as FFVI's successor" column.
...this was such a titanic spoiler. Why not let the let's play proceed to those discoveries naturally, instead of anticipating them? What's the point?

Indeed, I'm not sure if any other FInal Fantasy in the thread so far has achieved the same amount of spoilers as FFVI did in just one update... which is very weird, as I feel like this game in particular loses a lot of its impact if things are revealed before they happen. So, the people who like FFVI would be making it a worse experience intentionally here, which leaves me puzzled.

Anyway, I said in the past of the thread that FFVI can't be remade into a 3D remake because it'd lose a lot of what makes it so good, because it is an ultimately 2D experience and some of its best passages would not translate to a 3D game, especially one in the modern style, regardless of the amount of reworking it would undergo. So, now I need to prove it, which I'll be doing by commenting on sections of the game as they come up in the let's play and explain why they'd either lose all of their impact or be straight up impossible to adapt in a 3D game.

I want to point out beforehand, however, that this isn't a dismissal of 3D itself - FFIX is the best game in the series and it is 3D; I'm saying that FFVI specifically is one of those cases (like Cats) where the story is already in the perfect medium to express itself (2D pixels) and moving to another medium would only make it less pleasant to experience.

And let's start from the very beginning: the into sequence! It is a genuinely impressive piece of visual storytelling and a fitting opening to a grand saga - for a 2D videogame. It was astounding in its days and it still works very well now, but that's specifically in the framework of 2D simulating 3D. In modern 3D, however, a group walking through the snow like this would be pedestrian; 3D can obviously make impressive visual stuff of its own, but not in the contest of "walking to a not-especially-visually-interesting-town through the snow". And in fact, in 3D games which have long walking sequences in the style of this opening, it's often quite boring - the exact opposite of what you'd want at the start of a game like this and, most important to my point, something where the process of adapting the game to 3D would rob it of what made the original impressive. So, this means that any 3D adaptation would need to rework this, which would be pretty hard, since by definition Narshe is a small town at the edge of the world, and thus should not be visually impressive enough to justify a proper introduction. Either way, something of the original spirit would be lost here.

Next is the fight in the caves against Narshe's soldiers with the three moogle groups, with the visual labyrinth from above and the team switching to stop the multiple encroaching teams. Already the ability to switch between multiple teams is something that a lot of modern games have problems due to their obstinate need to force an action-type combat style where it doesn't belong, but in addition to it, the element of moving between groups to stop the enemies from reaching Terra also requires a certain visual approach that doesn't really fit with the "behind the shoulder" camera angle that all modern game seems unwilling to abandon even when they'd work better without it. The best way I can think of to adapt this would be to have an annoying minimap on a corner of the screen that shows the progress of the various enemy teams so that the player can see the progress there and switch the team they're controlling as needed, but it feels like that would not carry the same amount of urgency as the 2D approach of seeing the entire cave system at once does. And also like something that'd be very engine intensive. Anyway, I'll say that it's not inconceivable that this sequence could be adapted in a way that doesn't make it a pain to play through or too complex to run, but it does seems like another perfect showcase of how FFVI is ideally structured to take advantage of a 2D environment, which would not at all be easy to transposed to a 3D one.

Following up to that, we have the sand-submersible castle (submariner, even? of which Edgar is a beloved son?), which is pretty much presented to us as a cutscene, so would be translated to 3D into a video of some sort. This is not technically difficult to do, but I do wonder if an FMV would be able to capture the comedic bit of Kefka being left behind properly when it has to do the work without the benefit of sprites. How did Kefka not get dragged down alongside the castle? How did he survive? Can those questions be answered in a way that it's both visually credible and visually funny? I imagine it'd be possible, but I did wanted to point out that the 2D spritework is excellent to keep such questions away from the viewer's mind - something that a 3D adaptation would need to work harder to achieve, I feel.

And lastly, the mid-battle interruption with Locke and Edgar discussing Terra's magic power after she cast a spell mid-battle. This is the kind of thing that truly can only work in the context of FFVI as it is structured: since battles go by turns, they can be stopped for a quick aside, the sprites allow for a lot of emotions and facial expressions to be conveyed in a way that would require big close-ups when using 3D models, and the whole thing is a throwaway thing that the players can miss and a way in which the game is directly reacting to the player's actions, proving to the players that they have a certain level of agency, small as it may be. All of that would not work in a action-based 3D combat style that would, one suppose based on previous evidence, be the way a "3D remake" would be handled; interrupting the flow of action like that would require a cutscene in an action-based RPG, thus requiring an highly scripted encounter, which is a lot of extra work that would not be justifiable for something meant to be missable content. And making it mandatory detracts from the spirit of the thing, since it would force a player to use Terra magic, robbing them of freedom. Something which happens quite frequently in modern games, I might add.

So, that's that for now - a list of things that a "3D remake" of FFVI would have a very, very hard time translating accurately. I have more to come, especially when we see more of some characters' abilities, but I'll keep them for when the let's play gets there. My hope is that, by the time the game is over, I'll have provided a comprehensive enough argument for why FFVI is only as good as it is insomuch as it is taking full advantage of being a 2D game, and that translating it to 3D would completely rob it of many of the things that make it memorable. 3D is not always better, modern remakes are not always better, and FFVI is as perfect a case study for this as it would be possible to pick; I would never want to see a FFVI 3D remake.

Also, unrelated to the analysis:

They are, huh, two characters named Biggs and Wedge who go everywhere together, that's basically it. I think they're also usually soldiers?
As usual in Final Fantasy games (and mentioned above by others), if something seems strangely out of place, there's a 50% chance it'll be a Star Wars reference. I imagine that giving the name of two rebel spaceship pilots to two imperial mech-suit pilots was the game's attempt to be subtle about it, which worked pretty well in its favor, apparently. And the Star Wars references getting subtler instead of blatant might be progress?
 
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Anyways, to move on from the whole spoilers conversation, here's some (hopefully) non-spoiler character analysis of what we've got so far, because that's fun too. Indeed, entirely mechanical discussion, kind of like how fun it was to talk about each individual class as they came up in FFV.

So first things first? Terra! Now at first glance, it seems pretty clearly like Terra is leaning towards a classic mage archetype, right? Lower physical stats and higher magical stats than Locke and Edgar, and of course the plot itself already revolves around the fact that she has Magic as her unique character command. However, for whatever reason, maybe that Imperial Magitech Training shoved in her brain, Terra has a much wider equipment selection than you'd expect from the classic girl mage. Instead of just something like robes, staves, and maybe light armor, Terra can slap on actually good combat equipment like heavy swords and armor or flails. This helps to keep her somewhat competitive with more physically oriented characters like Locke and Edgar, while of course still being able to go "Let's set people on fire with my MIND".

And speaking of more physically oriented characters, we have Locke, our classic Thief. As ever steal is... moderately useful? Most of the time you'll just be nabbing potions and stuff, but there's the occasional boss or enemy with a useful rare drop. And while his physical stats don't match up with Edgar, he's still a tad stronger than Terra and at least has good weapon selection like she does (though not as good of armor classes). At this point in the game though, he's probably best off spending most of his time looting enemies rather than attacking because our last early party member is...

Edgar, and oh boy that Tool command. Even outside of it Edgar has a classic physical bruiser equipment set and stats since he can use heavy armor, swords, and spears (which incidentally makes him a good recipient for one of the relics mentioned in the beginner school, the dragoon boots), but Tool? Every tool is "buy one, use it forever", though really all you need at this point is his starting Auto-Crossbow to go "so anyways I started blasting" and do 200 odd damage to every enemy on every turn. In fact, between Terra having magic and Locke being a stealbot? It's almost worth sticking the entire current party in the back row for the added defense and just spamming that crossbow.

So, that's that for now - a list of things that a "3D remake" of FFVI would have a very, very hard time translating accurately. I have more to come, especially when we see more of some characters' abilities, but I'll keep them for when the let's play gets there. My hope is that, by the time the game is over, I'll have provided a comprehensive enough argument for why FFVI is only as good as it is insomuch as it is taking full advantage of being a 2D game, and that translating it to 3D would completely rob it of many of the things that make it memorable. 3D is not always better, modern remakes are not always better, and FFVI is as perfect a case study for this as it would be possible to pick; I would never want to see a FFVI 3D remake.
Gonna be honest, while on one hand I totally get your worries, and some of these points do make sense, at the same time it kind of feels like you're stretching things to find a reason why literally every scene can never ever possibly be remade well? In particular, the focus on "it's all action RPG now can't have turn based shit" really just feels like potshots at the FFVII Remake. Which, fair if you really don't like the gameplay changes there, but at the same time if we did have an FFVI remake I always pictured something more along the lines of FFIII/FFIV and the DS Remakes, which were fairly loyal in having similar gameplay systems (although FFIV did a lot of combat rebalancing and had some extra bits going on with the augments).

Like you mention the Narshe Cave fight with the moogles, and that would still totally work in the style of those two remakes? 3D Models but with a similar overhead view to what we have in FFVI already is basically what they do in the first place and would translate just fine.
 
"it's all action RPG now can't have turn based shit" really just feels like potshots at the FFVII Remake.
I was having that problem long before the FFVII Remake was a thing (although it didn't help matters); I started having that problem when FFXII first came up. That said, I am by all means willing to be proven wrong - what is the latest high-profile video game release with a turn-based combat system which wasn't a tactical game (ie, Final Fantasy Tactics, Disgaea and similar) to come out? I might have missed it.

FFIII/FFIV and the DS Remakes
In the context of the discussion, that's not what we're talking about here - the comments that prompted me to say "FFVI is a quintessential 2D experience that would suffer greatly if translated to 3D" was in the context of somebody saying "it'd be cool to have a high-quality 3D remake of Final Fantasy VI", and the DC remakes aren't really that, are they? Here, I hunted down the quote to provide context:

FF5 and FF6 are intimidating as all hell for 3D Remakes for surprisingly similar reasons. Namely character sprites. FF5 as ALOT of sprites for so few characters, and because of the expanded job system every job has to have animations for every jobs abilities. FF6 on the other hand just plain has a lot of characters and some even have multiple sprites.
I'm not entirely sure I want a 3-D remake of VI? I was a definite no on it for a long time because I sort of assumed any project like that would be a lazy port, but I'm more open to the idea now seeing what the VII remake was. Something like that I'd be down for.
Also sign me up as a person who would be extremely skeptical about the prospect of transitioning FFVI to 3d. That game is so fundamentally a 2d experience, I would consider it a part of its structure and an inherent element of what makes it so good, something where replacing it wouldn't just require impossible amounts of work, but actively require actively re-visualizing entire stretches of the game to find a way to make them work at all, let alone to the level of quality FFVI has.

So the progress of it all went "well, they did 3D remakes for FFIII and FFIV", "those weren't all that good, but maybe something with the visual of FFVII Remake might be interesting", and I then said "no, that'd actually be even worse". Which I'm now out to prove, meaning that I'm specifically comparing to a remake in the action-heavy hyperrealistic 3D graphics that FFVII got. Telling me "other 3D might work better" is fair, but it's both missing part of the point, and also applies to only some of the criticism, not all of it.

Also, for the record, I expressed dissatisfaction with the FFIII 3D version back when the thread was on that game - I didn't do the same with the FFIV version only because I haven't played it, but from what I've seen of it online, I would not be approving of that one either. So, you know, I'm skeptical that any kind of remake would work at all, but in FFVI's case especially, that takes a backseat to my opinion that the game only works in 2D.
 
I was having that problem long before the FFVII Remake was a thing (although it didn't help matters); I started having that problem when FFXII first came up. That said, I am by all means willing to be proven wrong - what is the latest high-profile video game release with a turn-based combat system which wasn't a tactical game (ie, Final Fantasy Tactics, Disgaea and similar) to come out? I might have missed it.
Persona 5 Royal, easily.
 
Persona 5, Dragon Quest XI, Etrian Odyssey Nexus, Etrian Odyssey Remasters of 1-3 are coming out in a month and a half, Live a Live Remaster (borderline since combat is in a grid, but still), and that's just Japanese games off the top of my head, there's probably more if you hop into the western market.

You're not wrong that I only addressed aome of your criticism, but really that's because I also agreed with some of it? Like the intro walk to Narshe, that's not really something you can make have that same "holy shit" factor in 3D because yes, we're well past it being impressive to do whether with in-engine 3D models or just a cutscene. It's just some of the rest that feels like it's doomsaying to a degree, going "well obviously a 3D remake can never be as good so now I have to find reasons it wouldn't in every single section."

That said it's also 6am where I am, so if I get into more detail to actually order my thoughts it'll be after I get some sleep and aren't stuck on mobile.
 
I was having that problem long before the FFVII Remake was a thing (although it didn't help matters); I started having that problem when FFXII first came up. That said, I am by all means willing to be proven wrong - what is the latest high-profile video game release with a turn-based combat system which wasn't a tactical game (ie, Final Fantasy Tactics, Disgaea and similar) to come out? I might have missed it.
Really depends on your definition of 'high-profile'. The genre never really died due to the DS and 3DS and with to the oddity of the Switch all those series are now once again on a console. Octopath 2 was in February, for example, and is a huge, stellar game despite the unusual aesthetic.
 
So the progress of it all went "well, they did 3D remakes for FFIII and FFIV", "those weren't all that good, but maybe something with the visual of FFVII Remake might be interesting", and I then said "no, that'd actually be even worse".

For the record, what I was trying to say was that the level of effort the VII remake had put into it was starting to convince me that VI could be done well, not that I wanted that exact look and feel.
 
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