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La Chanson de France - Fate/Broken Europa

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Well this is a fun if confusing situation.

All of the three penalty options imposed by Fencer have their own consequences, revealing Saber's true name opens the door for a entity with some degree of reality manipulation being able to get more accurate/specific with the headfuckery aimed at Saber.

Spending a command Seal is ….. potentially really dangerous in this situation, remember the real purpose of Command seals is to make your Servant commit suicide to get maximum power for the Grail and/or override the Servants free will so they perform actions they would refuse to do normally with a side order of super charging the Servants letting them perform impossible feats. We right now do not have control of the narrative , Fencer is literally voting for our conventional next action and the actual choice is what thing goes 'wrong' that's not a combinaction that needs a command seal gone awry in the mix.

The last option is interesting to me, still not a pleasant outcome but these are all penalty options so it shouldn't be, a serious injury is no small thing but choosing to put it on Mademoiselle instead of Saber means that if worst comes to worst our Servant is in better condition to trap us and run. Plus it opens some interesting narrative doors, does Fencer break off attacking Saber to go for the Master or does Sophia pull something big out of her Arsenal.

To me this seems the least bad option and the one that might gain some useful intel while leaving retreat options in place so …..

[X] One of you suffers a serious injury.
-[X] Mademoiselle.
 
[X] Keep pushing. Whatever 'Fencer' has been doing in his fight, he said himself he needs time. Keep pushing as hard as possible before the situation gets worse, and he'll crumble.
[X] One of you suffers a serious injury.
-[X] Mademoiselle.
 
Omicron you madman you've referenced ballad of the white horse again

Chesterton's fence will be the first noble phantasm in the history of the grail war to be unanimously condemned by all competing servants as "not fun to fight", "too spaghetti-ified to fully respond to", and "Jesus Christ come on man stop making me try to fully understand the reason why you exist before I can stab you"
 
[X] Keep pushing. Whatever 'Fencer' has been doing in his fight, he said himself he needs time. Keep pushing as hard as possible before the situation gets worse, and he'll crumble.
[X] One of you suffers a serious injury.
-[X] Mademoiselle.
 
Keeping it onscreen is correct, but also:

have you considered voting like this? might do nothing, but it's fun to potentially fuck with a fourth wall manipulator.
 
[X] One of you suffers a serious injury.
-[X] Mademoiselle.

I was dubious about participating in the second set of options, but I think I second-guessed myself into it.
 
[X] Keep pushing. Whatever 'Fencer' has been doing in his fight, he said himself he needs time. Keep pushing as hard as possible before the situation gets worse, and he'll crumble.
[X] One of you suffers a serious injury.
-[X] Mademoiselle.
 
Hrm. While I do appreciate me some good metafictional bullshit, and fighting fire with fire would seem an appropriate response, there is like a 0% chance we can get away with having our cake and eating it too here. If we want to pull some sort of Weird Voting Trick, we have to commit and risk whatever may come of it. Being rewarded for taking a risk on a clever idea is, perhaps, within the realm of the possible; being rewarded for coming up with a clever idea but hedging so you lose nothing if it fails is not.
 
Wiadi said:
Hrm. While I do appreciate me some good metafictional bullshit, and fighting fire with fire would seem an appropriate response, there is like a 0% chance we can get away with having our cake and eating it too here. If we want to pull some sort of Weird Voting Trick, we have to commit and risk whatever may come of it. Being rewarded for taking a risk on a clever idea is, perhaps, within the realm of the possible; being rewarded for coming up with a clever idea but hedging so you lose nothing if it fails is not.
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That's why I voted for Keep Pushing + Command Seal - I do think that a command seal is the price that most likely to bring us victory if we're pushing as we go, since I feel it's the kind of dramatic, narrative shift that might draw back the eyes of the world. But if I'm wrong about how this guy works, then we've expended a significant resource for no gain, and possibly significant risk.

Like, to assume that Push is the more correct choice, we need to assume that the Man in Red is being honest right here:
Omicron said:
"It was a simple plan, really," the Man in Red says, shaking his head. "We corner you in a tight environment that benefits a defensive style. We play up the mystery to make you worry about our abilities. We introduce organic incentives for you to fight in a slow, safe, defensive manner, so the fight drags on long enough for my power to assert itself."
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I think that assuming the trickster-type asshole is telling you the truth about his powers is an incredibly dangerous assumption. I just also think going along with his surface-level play is an even more dangerous, dumber choice.
 
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tzar1990 said:
I think that assuming the trickster-type asshole is telling you the truth about his powers is an incredibly dangerous assumption. I just also think going along with his surface-level play is an even more dangerous, dumber choice.
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OTOH isn't there a whole thing about faires being unable to lie, and instead just twist the truth? Or is that not in Fate?
 
7th Hex said:
OTOH isn't there a whole thing about faires being unable to lie, and instead just twist the truth? Or is that not in Fate?
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Nothing of the sort has been said either way in Fate. It's also more accurate to say that while the Fair Folk were not capable of lying, they very often did not tell the whole truth. They didn't think the same way that humans did.

As for Fencer( The Red Man) , I think the theory that his Noble Phantasm shifting the eyes of The World away to allow impossible events to occur could very well be what's going on. Such a feat would have a tremendous cost though... which is likely why it's compensated by requiring time to prepared. After all, if the world is to ignore what occurs behind the curtain, it must convinced to look somewhere else
It's also possible that the Fencer's( The Red Man's) thing is actually giving him insight similar to that of Mad's Voice Of Reason in it's mode of reading another person combined with some element of 'writing a story'. By knowing what the actors are to do next, what writer would not be able to guide the course of the plot in some way to their liking?
 
I'm very happy with the reception for this update, and I'm loving the speculation and discussion that's being had. Some of you have made some really insightful points. Keep it up!
 
So I'm reasonably sure he's a Servant, though I don't know who he is specifically. He really seems to me like a Caster, and interacting with the fourth wall feels like something a Servant would do. But I think we know that "Assassin" is Caster, so I really have no idea. If he isn't a Servant, he's a really busted not a Servant.

As for what we should do, I think revealing our true name is the best option here. I mean, we know her true name, and even we don't know her Noble Phantasm. I also don't think there's anything particularly or obviously dangerous in her story, though if there is we should trust him to take advantage. Ultimately, Saber is more of a meteor than a knife in the back, knowing that it's coming doesn't actually do much to save you. A command seal is a limited resource better used to ensure a kill or in an absolute emergency than just to survive, and getting injured is bad for obvious reasons.

[X] Reveal Saber's true name.
 
Darkpiplumon said:
If anyone can think of a dramaturge associated with Faeries and/or being a fencer, please say so. Calderon de la Barca? Don Juan Tenorio? I don't know much about english or french theatre.
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John Milton? The Faeire Queene was one of his best works, and he fits all the poetry so far (no iambic pentameter for Shakespeare). He had more radical political views than Arch aristocratic Sophia might want though
 
7th Hex said:
OTOH isn't there a whole thing about faires being unable to lie, and instead just twist the truth? Or is that not in Fate?
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Fate/Franchise isn't big on fairies. There is one in Waver's side-stories, but she didn't do much beyond welcome a guy to the other side of the world (though, tbh, I only watched the anime, and even then dropped it shortly after the relevant episode, so idk if something more was revealed).

The story that deals with fairies the most is the sixth chapter of KnK, buuuut no actual fairies are present there: just artificial ones made into familiars (they can steal memories) and the guy who went to fairyland for a while, which left him unable to recognize faces (speaking of potential serious injuries) but with an affinity for divine language, with which he could effortlessly command people.

catDreaming said:
They didn't think the same way that humans did.
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There is a fun story about it that goes something like that:

A fairy met a man on the road and asked for hospitality. The man agreed. They went to the man's home, and on the way the man blew over his palms.

"Why are you doing this?" asked the fairy.

"To warm my hands," the man said.

They arrivided at the man's home, and he's made a humble dinner for himself and his guest. As they sat to eat, the man blew over his soup.

"Why are you doing this?" asked the fairy.

"To cool the soup off," the man said.

And then the fairy killed the man because he hated liars.
 
[X] Keep pushing. Whatever 'Fencer' has been doing in his fight, he said himself he needs time. Keep pushing as hard as possible before the situation gets worse, and he'll crumble.

I like the idea of trying to overcome his power here. I would imagine this vote winning would represent some measure of heroic willpower or perfectly timed insight trying to overcome whatever skill or noble phantasm is at play here. Note that Fencer says he's "starting to be able to track the point of view shifts". This isn't something he can do perfectly, or else he would have done it from the start of the fight. He's capable of messing up whatever it is he's doing if we surprise him. Also notably, we haven't seen a True Name release of whatever power this is, yet. It might be entirely passive, but my hope would be at least forcing Fencer to invoke it so we get more details.
 
My first instinct to Fourth wall narrative fuckery is "punch the writer in the throat and see what happens".

(this is a joke, please do not inflict bodily harm to the author)
[X] Keep pushing.
 
On the topic of "is this guy actually a Servant?" and "why would she enter the war without one?", it would be pretty amusing if Britain was no longer metaphysically recognized as part of Europe after they broke the ley lines working. Very "you mean there are consequences for our actions?" energy, and it would explain the hypothetical decision to enter the war relying on a fairy as a desperate gamble to reclaim what the British see as theirs by right of being British.

In such a case, the ultimate aim here is probably to claim Mads' Command Seals and gain control over Saber.

(The only issue with the theory as a whole is that Ruler has sanctified this fight, and presumably his powers include actually recognizing who is and isn't a Servant. It's possible that he himself is subverted or plays his own game, though.)
 
illhousen said:
On the topic of "is this guy actually a Servant?" and "why would she enter the war without one?", it would be pretty amusing if Britain was no longer metaphysically recognized as part of Europe after they broke the ley lines working. Very "you mean there are consequences for our actions?" energy, and it would explain the hypothetical decision to enter the war relying on a fairy as a desperate gamble to reclaim what the British see as theirs by right of being British.

In such a case, the ultimate aim here is probably to claim Mads' Command Seals and gain control over Saber.

(The only issue with the theory as a whole is that Ruler has sanctified this fight, and presumably his powers include actually recognizing who is and isn't a Servant. It's possible that he himself is subverted or plays his own game, though.)
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I mean… technically speaking there's no rule against the British entering the war without an actual servant, it's just never done because it's broadly recognized as actual suicide, Ruler could totally formally recognize this challenge whether or not fencer is a servant. Saber is, after all.
 
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[X] Keep pushing. Whatever 'Fencer' has been doing in his fight, he said himself he needs time. Keep pushing as hard as possible before the situation gets worse, and he'll crumble.
[X] One of you suffers a serious injury.
-[X] Mademoiselle.
 
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Long shot guesses:
'Fencer' is Saber of Black. That's consistent with a Ruler showing up.
He has a Skill or passive Noble Phantasm that allows him to observe the most important thing happening in his surroundings, which might make him Christopher Marlowe (author and spy), Jeremy Bentham (developed the idea of the panopticon), or Ian Fleming (subverted German intelligence).
His problem with iron is diabolic rather than fae. This might be a point in favor of Marlowe, author of Faust and alleged magician.

As for the vote:
[X] Keep pushing. Whatever 'Fencer' has been doing in his fight, he said himself he needs time. Keep pushing as hard as possible before the situation gets worse, and he'll crumble.
[X] One of you suffers a serious injury.
-[X] Mademoiselle.
 
Theaxofwar said:
So I'm reasonably sure he's a Servant, though I don't know who he is specifically. He really seems to me like a Caster, and interacting with the fourth wall feels like something a Servant would do. But I think we know that "Assassin" is Caster, so I really have no idea. If he isn't a Servant, he's a really busted not a Servant.

As for what we should do, I think revealing our true name is the best option here. I mean, we know her true name, and even we don't know her Noble Phantasm. I also don't think there's anything particularly or obviously dangerous in her story, though if there is we should trust him to take advantage. Ultimately, Saber is more of a meteor than a knife in the back, knowing that it's coming doesn't actually do much to save you. A command seal is a limited resource better used to ensure a kill or in an absolute emergency than just to survive, and getting injured is bad for obvious reasons.

[X] Reveal Saber's true name.
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Revealing a true name anywhere near something even fae adjacent seems ill advised.

It's not good in general in a grail war due to it giving up valuable information of strengths/weaknesses/likely abilities, but with a fae or fae like maybe servant running around it's way more specifically dangerous.
 
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