Okey I'll concede that an anti-trip effect isn't as common with the elite as I thought it would be but that actually flips the argument, if most of our opponents won't have such an effect the only thing getting it to refined would do is up the damage and it would allow us to trip the few who do have the anti-trip effect at rough rather at refined.

At the end of the day, I just don't think it brings more to the table then vanguard prayer when It comes to the tournament.

It being Refined makes it generally harder to spot and smoother as well, which could matter for non-absolute defenses.

That said, upping Vanguard's Prayer to Mastered is absolutely more powerful in general...but it's also vastly more expensive. It is 6 Training to get Faulty Ground to Refined and 27 to get Vanguard's Prayer to Mastered. So the real comparison is not those two, it's Vanguard's Prayer as compared to Faulty Ground and three other things hitting Refined, plus an entirely new thing at Rough, or something like that.

Of those, Vanguard's Prayer is a meaningful but small flat bonus to attacks in general and reduction of per turn costs, while upping a bunch of different stuff adds to your versatility. Which of those is more important is an exercise for the Questers.

You can also potentially raise your Martial Styles and Shapes if what you want is direct combat bonuses. That's likely cheaper in training for a similar bonus, though it won't reduce the Fervour cost of Vanguard's Prayer (it would apply to relevant defenses, though).

The basic idea is to get another way to create an opening for GKB that is different in nature then clever deflection.

I'm aware the benefit is not that big but I think being able to pull something like it when our opponent gotten used to clever deflection is worth it.

But if we can't even get it then I suppose it doesn't really matter.

There are plenty of alternate options for making openings, certainly. Things like disarms, stunning attacks, and so on. Trips you already have pretty well covered, but certainly also qualify. Something like a wounded bird gambit where you fake being vulnerable but don't actually make yourself so is probably doable as well...but sacrifice plays aren't a big part of Eotenslaga. You could do one to protect someone else, but just to win a fight? I dunno about that.
 
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You can also potentially raise your Martial Styles and Shapes if what you want is direct combat bonuses. That's likely cheaper in training for a similar bonus, though it won't reduce the Fervour cost of Vanguard's Prayer (it would apply to relevant defenses, though).
We should have enough training to both up it and get hard fall to 4 (maybe 5 if we get a big training bonus just before the tournament but I doubt it).

That said, upping Vanguard's Prayer to Mastered is absolutely more powerful in general...but it's also vastly more expensive. It is 6 Training to get Faulty Ground to Refined and 27 to get Vanguard's Prayer to Mastered. So the real comparison is not those two, it's Vanguard's Prayer as compared to Faulty Ground and three other things hitting Refined, plus an entirely new thing at Rough, or something like that.
Most -if not all- of our core combat feats and meditations are already refined and while getting more dos increase our versability we only have so much capacity to go around.
 
We should have enough training to both up it and get hard fall to 4 (maybe 5 if we get a big training bonus just before the tournament but I doubt it).


Most -if not all- of our core combat feats and meditations are already refined and while getting more dos increase our versability we only have so much capacity to go around.

It's not like you're being forced to only have your current techniques? I don't understand why you think getting any new tricks will be useless.
 
We should have enough training to both up it and get hard fall to 4 (maybe 5 if we get a big training bonus just before the tournament but I doubt it).

Most -if not all- of our core combat feats and meditations are already refined and while getting more dos increase our versability we only have so much capacity to go around.

As Alectai notes, you can certainly also get new Rotes entirely. Also, this depends on how you define 'core'...your last Combat Plan involved two separate Rotes that are still at Rough.

That said, this is very much shading into judgment call territory, I'm mostly just trying to define the possibility space here.
 
Scheduled vote count started by Alectai on Oct 30, 2024 at 7:00 PM, finished with 58 posts and 12 votes.

  • [X] Plan Forewarned is Forearmed
    -[X] [Focus Action] Investigate Holman. Why does he hate us? Is he the only one? Start carrying around pocket sand to counter his eye if necessary.
    -[X] [Secondary Action] Ask our teacher and our family for advice about dealing with our anger.
    -[X] [Secondary Action] Train with Gilbert
    -[X] [Chancellery] Red-Black Lightning
    -[X] Training and Zeal (28 Training, 42 Zeal)
    –[X] Spend 6 Training to get Through Their Eyes to Refined
    –[X] Spend 6 Training to get Francisca Toss to Refined.
    –[X] Spend 3 Training to learn a Feat to easily recover our weapon through Web Shape. This should function by always having threads attached to our weapons while they're on our person, so we can use those threads to immediately pull it back towards us. The focus should be on quick recovery of the weapon/tool, not on using it as a projectile on its return.
    –[X] Spend 2 Training to get Faulty Ground to 2/6 to Refined.
    --[X] Spend 11 training on Clever Deflection (putting it to 27/27 to Mastery).
    --[X] spend 16 Zeal on Combat 5
    --[X] spend 8 Zeal on Diplomacy 4
    --[X] spend 8 Zeal on Tactics 4
    --[X] spend 4 Zeal on Precision 3
    [X] Plan Forewarned is Forearmed but Forarmed is Forwarnd
    -[X] [Focus Action] Investigate Holman. Why does he hate us? Is he the only one? Start carrying around pocket sand to counter his eye if necessary.
    -[X] [Secondary Action] Ask our teacher and our family for advice about dealing with our anger.
    -[X] [Secondary Action] Train with Gilbert
    -[X] [Chancellery] Red-Black Lightning
    -[X] Training and Zeal (28 Training, 42 Zeal)
    –[X] Spend 14 Training to get vanguards prayer at 14/27 to mastered.
    –[X] Spend 3 Training to learn a Feat to easily recover our weapon through Web Shape. This should function by always having threads attached to our weapons while they're on our person, so we can use those threads to immediately pull it back towards us. The focus should be on quick recovery of the weapon/tool, not on using it as a projectile on its return.
    --[X] Spend 11 training on Clever Deflection (putting it to 27/27 to Mastery).
    --[X] spend 16 Zeal on Combat 5
    --[X] spend 8 Zeal on Tactics 4
    --[X] spend 4 Zeal on Precision 3
    --[X] save 14 zeal for later.
 
That's 3 successes, decent results all things considered. The character sheet has also been updated to reflect Training and Zeal expenditures.
 
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Well, I am -of course- disappointed that my plan hasnt been chosen but the two plans are close enough that I'm fine with it.

Moving on, assuming our next turn is the same as this (IE 6 months) we'll have another 42 zeal (+6 form this turn) to a total of 48 zeal and 28 training.

Still possible to get combat 6 and tactics 5 but that would leave us with 0 zeal for the tournament (which is fine as that's not life and death battle but still) it might be better to go combat 6 and horsemanship 4 (to give us a chance to get something at the joust) this would be a total of 44 zeal and leave us 4 zeal for the tournament.

As for training ,4 to finish faulty ground, 8 to get hardfall style to 4, 9 to get a hardfall defense mediation and refine it, and that would leave us with 7 I'm not too sure what to do with.
 
Still possible to get combat 6 and tactics 5 but that would leave us with 0 zeal for the tournament (which is fine as that's not life and death battle but still) it might be better to go combat 6 and horsemanship 4 (to give us a chance to get something at the joust) this would be a total of 44 zeal and leave us 4 zeal for the tournament.
As a point of order, and correct me if I'm wrong here, I think it'd be better to get Soma 7 than Combat 6. It costs the same and gives us the same dice bonus AIUI, but we get an extra 20 Fortitude and it lets us safely get Hama 7 without screwing our foundation.
 
Still possible to get combat 6 and tactics 5 but that would leave us with 0 zeal for the tournament
The turn would cycle just before the tournement, so we might get Zeal right at the start of it for the next turn's income and be able to use that.

As a point of order, and correct me if I'm wrong here, I think it'd be better to get Soma 7 than Combat 6. It costs the same and gives us the same dice bonus AIUI, but we get an extra 20 Fortitude and it lets us safely get Hama 7 without screwing our foundation.
Soma gives Ranks as a flat mod to each physical combat roll, Combat Ranks give 2d4 to the roll
 
Moving on, assuming our next turn is the same as this (IE 6 months) we'll have another 42 zeal (+6 form this turn) to a total of 48 zeal and 28 training.

43 Zeal if nothing changes. Remember the extra 1 from the Bead.

As a point of order, and correct me if I'm wrong here, I think it'd be better to get Soma 7 than Combat 6. It costs the same and gives us the same dice bonus AIUI, but we get an extra 20 Fortitude and it lets us safely get Hama 7 without screwing our foundation.

As AeonIlluminate notes, Soma gives a +1 on combat rolls, Combat gives +2d4. Soma gives other stuff, but it's not quite as good for that.
 
The turn would cycle just before the tournement, so we might get Zeal right at the start of it for the next turn's income and be able to use that.
That is... not how things work, we aren't getting once big sum every month but purifying a small amount of zeal every day, we spend it as a sum to ease turn mechanics.

But we aren't going to just get a big chunk of zeal for the tournament, maybe well get 1 or 2 points if the tournament lasts long enough but I wouldn't relay on it.
 
That is... not how things work, we aren't getting once big sum every month but purifying a small amount of zeal every day, we spend it as a sum to ease turn mechanics.

But we aren't going to just get a big chunk of zeal for the tournament, maybe well get 1 or 2 points if the tournament lasts long enough but I wouldn't relay on it.

This is largely correct, yeah. Whatever Zeal you have leftover from the preceding turn is what you'll have for the tournament.
 
Honestly for Zeal I'd be happy just getting Combat 6 for the tourney and maybe Admin 3 for after since it just costs 4. I'd rather have a reserve than Tactics 5.

Training-wise, what about something like this?
–[] Spend 4 Training to get Faulty Ground to 6/6 to Refined.
–[] Spend 12 Training to get Hordebreaker, Fyrdsman yt Wol and Ground Shape to rank 3
–[] Spend 12 Training to get 2 other techs to Refined.

Assuming 28 training to match the turn just voted on, first we spend 4 to finish refining Faulty ground. That leaves us 24, which I think we should split between further refining and upgrading our base styles/shapes. We know there's a melee and duel categories so getting some cheap upgrades across theboard would be good. I dunno for the last 12; maybe Horde-breaking charge and Pulling the Web? Depends what people prefer.
 
That is... not how things work, we aren't getting once big sum every month but purifying a small amount of zeal every day, we spend it as a sum to ease turn mechanics.

But we aren't going to just get a big chunk of zeal for the tournament, maybe well get 1 or 2 points if the tournament lasts long enough but I wouldn't relay on it.
Yeah, I get that hence the maybe, but still we might get it.

Still possible to get combat 6 and tactics 5 but that would leave us with 0 zeal for the tournament (which is fine as that's not life and death battle but still) it might be better to go combat 6 and horsemanship 4 (to give us a chance to get something at the joust) this would be a total of 44 zeal and leave us 4 zeal for the tournament.
Yeah, it probably is good to only grab a Combat rank or maybe a Soma rank next turn and then have 17 Zeal for the tournament, as I don't think burning like 40 Zeal across the event is gonna be a thing that happens. Absolutely burning 3 to double Rebuke during the Melee event sounds like a brilliant idea, but even then we'd have 14 for the duels and other events and that feels like well enough for it. With your idea to drop some Zeal in Horsemanship to prep for the Joust, I feel that we'd need a horse for that and we lack one, so even if we get lent one for the event we will get stomped by the few guys who have their own ones already.

As for training ,4 to finish faulty ground, 8 to get hardfall style to 4, 9 to get a hardfall defense mediation and refine it, and that would leave us with 7 I'm not too sure what to do with.
That first section seems like a good line-up, then maybe Refine Sweeping Slash for the Melee to get a better AoE option, and then lob the one at something. Maybe towards getting Hordebreaker to 3 then 4 for the Rebuke boost at 4, even if we won't get there in time for the Melee it is something we need to get as the more we are ahead of the curve of where our Rebuke "should" be, the more people we can screw over with it as they will take whatever our Bead and Decade is, translate that into Rebuke, run with that, and then fail as our Rebuke is higher than it should be.
 
Passive Bonus: This style specializes in fighting groups, and allows for defending against two attacks simultaneously. It also adds 1/2 its rating (rounded up) to the Rebuke of those wearing Knightly Armour (before any doubling due to Zeal)
Maybe towards getting Hordebreaker to 3 then 4 for the Rebuke boost at 4
We actually only need to get to rank 3 to increase the Rebuke bonus, with the next increase at 5.
 
Pulling The Web (3 Fervour): Can use the strands of the Hama web to relocate an unattended object weighing 20 pounds or less within its area to another place within said area. This can be done simultaneously with other things, meaning this is not an attack and does not take an action unless moving a large number of objects, and happens relatively quickly. At this level, the amount of control is extremely crude...getting a weapon to hand is possible, but only because of superlative cultivator reflexes, as you're basically tossing items from one place to another. (0/6 Refined)
Holy shit we have telekinesis now. Or at least we will once we train it more.
 
Right, still a bit frazzled from the dogs giving me grief as the only responsible person in the house for the next few weeks, but let's see what I can churn out today.

EDIT: Doot is written and pending edits.
 
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Turn 7 - What was his problem? New
So, what was Holman Waering's problem?

"Damned if I know" Hathwic shrugged, chewing on a stalk of wheat for one reason or another–what purpose could he have for it? "He's definitely a little shit, but it's not like there's none of those, and they're not even all attached to the Waerings for that matter." The stalk of wheat shifts, from one side of his mouth to the other in a way that Audrey was dutifully trying to ignore. "Why are you asking me about it anyway?"

"Because you're a polite and decent young man with good prospects?" Audrey tilted her head, only getting a good-humored scoff from the pessimistic Thane. "But no, it's that Gilbert asked me to remain silent about it, and going to anyone who didn't witness that struggle would have been…"

"Not a great career choice" He nodded at that, chewing a small piece of the stalk out and absently spitting it out to the side, somehow achieving this without losing the entire piece of wheat. "Okay, so, he's a distant nephew to the Ealdorman, he's decently talented and inherited the Arresting Gaze to its full strength, but you know all that, right?"

Audrey gave a quick nod and a hum of acknowledgement–that actually largely dovetailed with her own studies on the matter. Virtually every man, woman, and child alive had inherited some little talent or trick from the deeds of their ancestors, but not everyone would necessarily inherit that talent, or it might not manifest in exactly the same way for everyone. It was why so many dynasties tended to be picky about who got married to whom–to avoid any mutual conflicts that could end up producing a hybrid that was worse than either lineage would handle alone.

Was it the source of her lightning? Probably not, she had witnessed the Giant-Slaying Blow a few times in her youth, and it did produce the same effect no matter who used it, but having it emerge even when the signature technique of the Eotenslaga was not being used? As had been becoming more common in recent days?

An atavism? Or something else. She had more studies to complete on the matter before she could know for certain.
Red-Black Lightning: 3/6 to completion
The point was, that it meant that Holman Waering was mildly important simply by having access to the Arresting Gaze, and would be groomed for high rank. So why is it that he held such a grudge against someone he didn't know? They weren't in competition, and he was in defiance of both the King and the Ealdorman of his own house by provoking a struggle with the young Squires being trained here.

This likely wasn't going to be a problem that would be solved with anger and violence–and Audrey had come to understand that after a time to let her head cool. Likely why Hathwic had intervened–the fight was just a moment away from naked iron being brandished, and no matter who was the victor from that mess, the final results would have been catastrophic. The defiance of an edict of the King would not go unpunished for anyone involved, right or wrong–and while a few bruises and torn gambesons might be excused as just a particularly vigorous sparring match, bloodshed wouldn't be on the same level, even if both sides walked away on their own power.

So what was the deal?

"I don't think it's that he has something to prove…" Gilbert mentioned during one of Audrey's little training sessions–he had seemingly found his courage, and his resolve combined with her tutelage was doing much to help shore up his basics. He already was fearsome when he had a chance to chant his prayers, and her tips and advice were helping him get to the point where he might be able to do so even absent aid! "He acts like someone who was personally affronted, somehow."

He flushed then, hesitating for just a moment–"It's not even that you're just, well…" He gestures towards Audrey. "A girl in a man's business, he was harassing me, yes, but there wasn't that same hate that he seemed to have for you. It was like he was just waiting for a chance to get a shot at you."

Audrey crossed her arms at that, frowning. "I've never met a Waering in my life though, at least before coming here."

"Are you sure though?" Gilbert points out, trying to be helpful. "Not even once? He suggested familiarity with your family, right?"

Audrey opens her mouth to retort–but the earnest desire to know held her tongue for a moment. She closed her mouth, and took a minute to think on it.

Really have a good think on the matter.

Has she ever met Holman Waering? Or really, any Waering in the past?

No, that wasn't the right question.

Has any Eotenslaga met with a Waering in the past generation?

The answer to that was… She didn't know–she wasn't certain, was this some private grudge that had escalated to a feud upon her entire family?

She really needed to have a talk with her family, a letter at least–come to think of it, she hadn't received any letters or missives from them since she had arrived at Warwick. She had been extremely busy, but not even her stipend notice?

Right, she'd be proactive! She'd send them word herself, and just in case…

"Wait, what?"

Crowley, your bonded Companion, had finished his metamorphosis sometime around the turn of the season, when the cold of winter gave way to the storms of early spring. Where once was a largely ordinary hooded crow of ashen and black feathers had bloomed a significantly larger–and dramatically more handsome–bird, with traces of red lightning to match her own as a set of striking streaks. Though still with the lean physique of a Crow, he had grown very well in both intellect and strength, and could now be called a truly worthy companion of one such as Audrey Eotenslaga!

Oh sure, he was a little lazy sometimes, and enjoyed pampering maybe a little more than was proper, but his command over the elements of the firmament were impressive when he could be roused to work, and anyway, he was a very pretty bird who complimented her extremely well, a loyal companion here to go on his first mission!

"You can't seriously be… Audrey! I've never been where you live! Okay, let's say I'm willing to take a trip across the Kingdom anyway–which I'm not, because that's a good way of becoming lunch for something." He gesticulated aggressively with one of his wings, a puff of static and the scent of ozone filling the space between them. "I'd get lost halfway along the way! You can't seriously expect me to just go 'Oh hey, his mind is based on my mind so he'll obviously know', that's not how this works!"

Audrey smugly puffed herself up. "Actually, I don't need you to go that far!" She says, her Storm Crow companion seeming to freeze. "I just want you to follow it for a little while, there's something I want to check out."

The bird squints at her, looking for a barb in it–some secret hint of extra work. But Audrey's face was utterly without guile. "Just down the river a bit? In and out?"

"And we'll get the good steak when you're back, yes." Audrey nodded, because deeds must be matched with suitable rewards!

"Hrm…" He squints, and scratches at his post with his feet. "Well, if it's only going that far, I suppose I can accommodate you–you're going to be watching?"

Audrey grinned, showing just a trace of teeth. "Of course I am–everything might be perfectly fine, but if they're not… I'll very much want to know what the problem is.

"Right! Right!" Crowley bobbed his head. "So, how are we going to do this then?

0~0~0

The plan–such as it is–was simple. Audrey would hand a letter to the man at the docks who handles the post, who makes sure missives are passed along the line through the King's–rather well designed at this point–logistical network.

Meanwhile, Crowley would conceal himself in a bank of fog, shadowing the mailman, and her letter–which she had sealed with a lock of her own hair just to make sure it was shiny enough to catch the cunning Corvid's eye at all times, just to make sure her mail was actually getting where it should be. All the while, Audrey marveled at the gaze from on high–the sheer ease of gathering information with a dedicated Companion able to witness the lay of the land and the people within it from above.

Absolutely fantastic, utterly perfect! And her hunch was correct to boot, as the mailman–taking a moment to glance about and ensure there were none on the ship to notice–stuffed her missive into a poorly wrought glass bottle, and dropped it over the side of the river.

Did he just dispose of her mail?

No, there were easier, more subtle ways of doing that. Crowley wanted to call the job a good one at that point, now that the mystery was solved–but she cautioned a little patience.

And sure enough, not long afterwards, one of Holman's subordinates slipped in through the woods and fished the bottle out from the riverbank.



Well

That answers why she hasn't heard from her family since getting here.

The little gobshite's paid off the mailman to intercept her letters!

Is that why she hasn't gotten her stipend yet? She hasn't received the note of recognition? He shouldn't be able to claim it without her signet, but if she doesn't know to go to claim her coin… Argh!

She needs resources now to build her inner Temple! She needs to resolve this feud soon if she hopes to continue at this pace!

(Discovered that Holman Warwick is intercepting Audrey's mail, use this information as you will)

0~0~0

Audrey's continued efforts at going to mass as often as possible have paid off, granting her +1 Grace a bit earlier than she would have gained it otherwise. Reinald, as part of training her for the tournament, notes that while her own plans on the matter cover most of the areas he would think are useful, physical contests other than combat are possible, and her wrestling abilities are currently rudimentary at best, likely well below those of many of her peers, most notably including no dedicated ability to either gain control of or escape a grapple.

With that in mind, she must now plan for her next six months of training and activities, her last before the tournament:

[ ] Example Plan
-[ ] [Focus Action] Insert Action Choice Here
-[ ] [Secondary Action] Insert Action Choice Here
-[ ] [Secondary Action] Insert Action Choice Here
-[X] [Chancellery] Pick Red-Black Lightning
-[ ] Training and Zeal (30 Training, 52 Zeal)
–[ ] Spend 30 Training on whatever you desire (15 at most may be spent on Feats and Shapes)
–[ ] Spend 0-52 Zeal on ???


AN: Only mildly edited! So you get the full stream of thought from me instead of the cleaned and hand-tidied mess, can you spot the differences?
 
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For the record, Reinald's advice in the last bit is not intended to supersede plans already made completely or anything, it's just the stuff that seemed...notably absent from every plan thus far made. Like...you all almost died because someone was better at grappling and have not even tried to get better at it in the least way. Your new Armour Trait makes being grappled a bit harder, but doesn't improve your odds within them much at all.

And your Athleticism and Horsemanship are both below average for your cultivation level at this point, which seemed worth bringing up.
 
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