JainaQuest, giving SV voters control of Jaina in the Warcraft 3 era

[verynew]

1. we need some information about both Captain stats and water elemental stats
2. what can we do with our adept knowledge of ritual magic? can we make empowered ritual to summon water elementals with aid of Priest and Sorcerers to get 21 stronger water elemetal?
3. If that ritual won't take too much time, then we would have 21 stronger troops to serve as our guards and scouts under Heath command and then we can run to our destination

 

[san]

1. we need some information about both Captain stats and water elemental stats
2. what can we do with our adept knowledge of ritual magic? can we make empowered ritual to summon water elementals with aid of Priest and Sorcerers to get 21 stronger water elemetal?
3. If that ritual won't take too much time, then we would have 21 stronger troops to serve as our guards and scouts under Heath command and then we can run to our destination

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1: I am waiting on the Omake before providing the captain stats, (as well as confirmation of what he wants the captain's ability to be whether it is sniping, rapidfire, a grenade, etc.) However he is having trouble sleeping apparently and has promised to have it out in a couple days. As for the water elemental... I honestly forgot about it lol, i will have those stats for you shortly.

2: For now not much Adept level knowledge only lets you use about 50% of the rituals around, none of them extremely powerful. The strongest ritual you can utilize is to stabilize the summon water elemental spell and ensure they can stay on this plane of existence permanently (until they are killed.) Normally they only stick around for 1 hour tops. However the ritual takes a few hours to set up and some fairly expensive ingredients (though the ritual area can be reused) and it takes about 15 minutes to complete per elemental. While you might think this is useful they have a very slow move speed as well, at about 3, making the ritual most suited for when you have a permanent base you want extra defenses for. Other than that your most useful ritual only takes about 30 minutes to complete and summons enough food to feed 200-300 people for a day (exact numbers based on a roll.) Otherwise I basically give you guys carde blanche to design your own rituals, just message me to approve them as they have to be balanced and remember you can't do anything too powerful* yet. *The ritual Antonidas used against Arthas and the scourge when he attacked Dalaran comes to mind for a fairly powerful ritual, Or perhaps the one Archimonde used to destroy Dalaran.

3: Like I said water elementals are too slow to be useful when you need to move around.

Edit: there Water Elementals stats have been added (just remember the brackets indicate stats at higher levels or after upgrades to a unit.)

 

[verynew]

Another question is overall distance from Dalaran, how many days does it take to arrive with normal speed?

 

[san]

Another question is overall distance from Dalaran, how many days does it take to arrive with normal speed?

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3 days according to cannon, don't worry too much about that though I am going to be fairly loose about that since cannon isn't too exact either. The difference will just be going up a level to impossible if you choose to go slow, or down 1 level to very hard if you go very fast. So nothing too insane just 0.5 times difficulty difference from the hard mode of the campaign in either direction. So a difference between 2x-3x difficulty, right now you are at 2.5x difficulty.

Edit: (Remember difficulty is stated based on having the exact same units as you did in the campaign. Right now you have more than the Campaign so it might not actually be any more difficult.)

 

[ComradeDoge]

Omake: Jaina and Alliance Army Tactics and Strategy

Jaina Proudmore, the Daughter of Admiral Proudmoore who rallied the Alliance Navy to Victory in fleet sorties and battles against the Orcs time and time again, had plenty to be...well.. proud about. She was coming into her own as a powerful sorcerer or wizard, whatever you wish to call it..and she had ideas to help the military.

The following is a quick story of her idea. She knew of a forward-thinking Alliance Captain, one David Miguel Cabrera, and traveled to Dalaran in search of him. She found him at Sharpshooter keep. He was the Commandant of Sniper Barracks, the Barracks responsible for the training of Sharpshooters and the conversation went something like this:

Jaina: Ah, there you are, Captain! You must have heard of me. I wanted to introduce myself because I had an idea that could help out our military.

Captain Cabrera: Indeed, my lady. You do me honor. I have an idea or two as well, but let's hear yours out first, shall we?

Jaina: Very well. I know your Sharpshooters are good, but maybe we can make them better. I had the idea of inspecting one of your rifles myself and take it to a Dwarven Blacksmith I trust. May I?

Cabrera: Of course. I actually had an idea of making an entire unit entirely. I call it the Rifleman. An armored Sharpshooter with better range and can take a hit or two. I worry about my Sharpshooter potential casualties after all..

(My fellow questers, this is only part 1st of this omake arc. I am a Sergeant of United States Marines and I taught Marines how to shoot. I'll be playing with you guys and I'll be able to help us out in terms of ground/army tactics throughout the quest, at least some as far as our GM allows).

 

[san]

Omake: Jaina and Alliance Army Tactics and Strategy

Jaina Proudmore, the Daughter of Admiral Proudmoore who rallied the Alliance Navy to Victory in fleet sorties and battles against the Orcs time and time again, had plenty to be...well.. proud about. She was coming into her own as a powerful sorcerer or wizard, whatever you wish to call it..and she had ideas to help the military.

The following is a quick story of her idea. She knew of a forward-thinking Alliance Captain, one David Miguel Cabrera, and traveled to Dalaran in search of him. She found him at Sharpshooter keep. He was the Commandant of Sniper Barracks, the Barracks responsible for the training of Sharpshooters and the conversation went something like this:

Jaina: Ah, there you are, Captain! You must have heard of me. I wanted to introduce myself because I had an idea that could help out our military.

Captain Cabrera: Indeed, my lady. You do me honor. I have an idea or two as well, but let's hear yours out first, shall we?

Jaina: Very well. I know your Sharpshooters are good, but maybe we can make them better. I had the idea of inspecting one of your rifles myself and take it to a Dwarven Blacksmith I trust. May I?

Cabrera: Of course. I actually had an idea of making an entire unit entirely. I call it the Rifleman. An armored Sharpshooter with better range and can take a hit or two. I worry about my Sharpshooter potential casualties after all..

(My fellow questers, this is only part 1st of this omake arc. I am a Sergeant of United States Marines and I taught Marines how to shoot. I'll be playing with you guys and I'll be able to help us out in terms of ground/army tactics throughout the quest, at least some as far as our GM allows).

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Perfect, I will have his name changed everywhere i have it shortly. Also given the captain is a sharpshooter I assume you intend for him to have snipe? I am starting on his character sheet now, if i do not hear from you otherwise within the hour that will be his ability.

you just might want to read it over a touch and edit it to fix up a couple of grammar mistakes.

Edit: once you finish 4 more parts to this series (depending on how far the story is.) I will change the captain from a Unique/commander unit into a Hero unit greatly improving his stats and everything else. (if we are not far enough to support more heroes in your army then I will hold his upgrade in reserve until such a time as I can add him in while keeping it balanced.

Also I will add the rifleman unit much later it will have to be at least after you finish with Jaina's normal part in the campaign. (In other words not until AFTER Stratholme happens.)

 

[verynew]

3 days according to cannon, don't worry too much about that though I am going to be fairly loose about that since cannon isn't too exact either. The difference will just be going up a level to impossible if you choose to go slow, or down 1 level to very hard if you go very fast. So nothing too insane just 0.5 times difficulty difference from the hard mode of the campaign in either direction. So a difference between 2x-3x difficulty, right now you are at 2.5x difficulty.

Edit: (Remember difficulty is stated based on having the exact same units as you did in the campaign. Right now you have more than the Campaign so it might not actually be any more difficult.)

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Area around Dalaran should be relatively safe, so we can run that part. Next day should take average speed. On the 3rd way we need to be on guard with scouts and scrying.
In fact I don't remember campaing, but I think that given level of difficulty means a lot of refuges, some of which might be questioned and another part have some training and can be recruited as scouts, guides and stuff.
so my current plan is:

[X] Take the middle ground
-[X]1st day fast pace march, 2nd middle ground (with scouts), 3rd going slowly (with formation and scouts)
[X] Tactics
-[X] Sent scouts around the camp and prepare ambush
-[X] Set captain Heath, 7 sorcerers, 7 footmen as reserve (they must join at right moment)
-[X] Use stripper-sorceress to lure Ogres into ambush.

BTW you described only 5 out 6 ogres.

 

[san]

Area around Dalaran should be relatively safe, so we can run that part. Next day should take average speed. On the 3rd way we need to be on guard with scouts and scrying.
In fact I don't remember campaing, but I think that given level of difficulty means a lot of refuges, some of which might be questioned and another part have some training and can be recruited as scouts, guides and stuff.
so my current plan is:

[X] Take the middle ground
-[X]1st day fast pace march, 2nd middle ground (with scouts), 3rd going slowly (with formation and scouts)
[X] Tactics
-[X] Sent scouts around the camp and prepare ambush
-[X] Set captain Heath, 7 sorcerers, 7 footmen as reserve (they must join at right moment)
-[X] Use stripper-sorceress to lure Ogres into ambush.

BTW you described only 5 out 6 ogres.

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ok I will actually allow the first vote (like i said before i reward intelligent write-ins.)
but your tactics are well.....

1st, there is no camp you are still in transit and nearly at the meeting place and in sight of the Ogres who are in sight of you (you both see each other.) and they are already prepared and ready to kill you while blocking the road.

(going back to edit the chapter to make the battleground more clear was WAY too short on that, to be fair I updated right before going to bed so i was pretty tired.)

2nd) I assume you mean they are holding behind the rest of you? if so allowed,
and 3rd) these are not sorceresses and the specific person stripping beforehand was a dude. (you have maybe 2 female sorcerers with you.)

Edit: and fixed the battlefield description

 

[verynew]

ok I will actually allow the first vote (like i said before i reward intelligent write-ins.)
but your tactics are well.....

1st, there is no camp you are still in transit and nearly at the meeting place and in sight of the Ogres who are in sight of you (you both see each other.) and they are already prepared and ready to kill you while blocking the road.

(going back to edit the chapter to make the battleground more clear was WAY too short on that, to be fair I updated right before going to bed so i was pretty tired.)

2nd) I assume you mean they are holding behind the rest of you? if so allowed,
and 3rd) these are not sorceresses and the specific person stripping beforehand was a dude. (you have maybe 2 female sorcerers with you.)

Edit: and fixed the battlefield description

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About tactics: we are moving in formation and with scouts - we can prepare
About meeting point, is it village or just random point on the road?
Stripper-sorcerer, ! choose you!

 

[san]

About tactics: we are moving in formation and with scouts - we can prepare
About meeting point, is it village or just random point on the road?
Stripper-sorcerer, ! choose you!

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first, tactics: I will allow some preparation then however you're scouts missed the ogres initially until you were too close to avoid them noticing you. (don't ask me how, rolls really fkd you on the scouting, you guys got a 10 which means no matter what its a fail, you only get the extra prep time if either your vote on how to travel goes through, or you were travelling slow the whole time.)

2nd: refer to edited chapter for exact battlefield description, however you are NEAR the meeting point, but still 20-30 minutes of travel at regular speed out.

3rd: the guy was really drunk at the time and it was more meant as a joke lol. (though write some omakes on him yourself and i might allow you to turn him into a Unique unit with those kinds of abilities. Maybe he has some succubus heritage, and gets the ability from that?)

 

[verynew]

How much time it would take ogre lord to reach Jaina's position? And how much time would it take for her troops to reach forest?

 

[san]

How much time it would take ogre lord to reach Jaina's position? And how much time would it take for her troops to reach forest?

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well for the ogre lord that varies, first Jaina would not be on the frontline but rather somewhere in the middle so your troops may slow him down, and 2nd well... you do have a spell called slow? otherwise it depends on the Ogre lords move speed per turn which while I won't give you the exact speed until after the battle, I will say he is faster than your footmen and slower than a Knight. (knights are roughly twice as fast as a footman.) The ogres are just within sight distance with your plan, so about 60 units of distance away based on their size and the fact that the terrain is not the most visible. (mind you this is only with you're tactic of taking it slow at the end or if someone chooses to take it slow the whole time.)

As for reaching the forest, while it is only a mere 15 units of distance in either direction, it halves move speed and I will be forced to roll to determine whether or not you get lost if you try to avoid the ogres by going through there. If you fail then you run the risk of not meeting up with your escort in time possibly causing them to go ahead with the mission on their own, which given the increased risk from your lateness and the lack of increased troops they have, will likely lead to their deaths.

 

[verynew]

well for the ogre lord that varies, first Jaina would not be on the frontline but rather somewhere in the middle so your troops may slow him down, and 2nd well... you do have a spell called slow? otherwise it depends on the Ogre lords move speed per turn which while I won't give you the exact speed until after the battle, I will say he is faster than your footmen and slower than a Knight. (knights are roughly twice as fast as a footman.) The ogres are just within sight distance with your plan, so about 60 units of distance away based on their size and the fact that the terrain is not the most visible. (mind you this is only with you're tactic of taking it slow at the end or if someone chooses to take it slow the whole time.)

As for reaching the forest, while it is only a mere 15 units of distance in either direction, it halves move speed and I will be forced to roll to determine whether or not you get lost if you try to avoid the ogres by going through there. If you fail then you run the risk of not meeting up with your escort in time possibly causing them to go ahead with the mission on their own, which given the increased risk from your lateness and the lack of increased troops they have, will likely lead to their deaths.

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It's perfect! We ambush them in the woods!
Now, how good are those trees? Can they endure weight of a couple of footmen (without shields)?

 

[san]

It's perfect! We ambush them in the woods!
Now, how good are those trees? Can they endure weight of a couple of footmen (without shields)?

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ummmm ok 1st just gonna put this out there..... they already see you lol, you can't ambush them so easily. Now 2nd and far more importantly, have you read some of the mechanics? (specifically the ones on ranged units, where it states they are weaker in the woods?) the ogres lack ranged units so if you try that even if you pull off an ambush you will be at even more of a disadvantage than before.

Also your footmen can't climb in armor its way too heavy, plus your magic users can't climb at all they are too physically weak.

You do realize you are overthinking this right? You have range units they do not, Bam you can hit them before they hit you.... it really is that simple. (mind you you may not KILL them before they get to you, but you should be able to hurt them fairly badly, depending on what you do.)

 

[san]

Alright everyone i just finished adding in the Stats for our new captain, check him out in faction status. I also added a bit to the third vote option on what tactics you can use (just the captain sniping the Ogre Lord.)

 

[verynew]

ummmm ok 1st just gonna put this out there..... they already see you lol, you can't ambush them so easily. Now 2nd and far more importantly, have you read some of the mechanics? (specifically the ones on ranged units, where it states they are weaker in the woods?) the ogres lack ranged units so if you try that even if you pull off an ambush you will be at even more of a disadvantage than before.

Also your footmen can't climb in armor its way too heavy, plus your magic users can't climb at all they are too physically weak.

You do realize you are overthinking this right? You have range units they do not, Bam you can hit them before they hit you.... it really is that simple. (mind you you may not KILL them before they get to you, but you should be able to hurt them fairly badly, depending on what you do.)

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Well it is fun to imagine, it would probably earned +1 to tactics for Jaina.
1. The trick I was going to suggest was to climb the tree and jump on orge from above (blade first)
2. Ogres are stupid, so as soon as they see us fleeing they will attempt to catch us and move from road to grassland losing half of their own speed.
3. We also use slow on them, except their lord, to split him from the rest.
4. We stop at the edge of the forest and kill them one by one with ranged attacks.

 

[san]

Well it is fun to imagine, it would probably earned +1 to tactics for Jaina.
1. The trick I was going to suggest was to climb the tree and jump on orge from above (blade first)
2. Ogres are stupid, so as soon as they see us fleeing they will attempt to catch us and move from road to grassland losing half of their own speed.
3. We also use slow on them, except their lord, to split him from the rest.
4. We stop at the edge of the forest and kill them one by one with ranged attacks.

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everything but the 1st thing is an option, and yes ogres in general are stupid, but both ogre magi and ESPECIALLY ogre lords are fairly intelligent for ogres (an ogre lord is actually smarter than many humans.) so while it COULD work, it will be decided by a roll and if the tactic is seen through you might be in for a bit of pain.

 

[verynew]

everything but the 1st thing is an option, and yes ogres in general are stupid, but both ogre magi and ESPECIALLY ogre lords are fairly intelligent for ogres (an ogre lord is actually smarter than many humans.) so while it COULD work, it will be decided by a roll and if the tactic is seen through you might be in for a bit of pain.

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Good thing about this tactic is that both cases are fine: If Lord don't see it, then he charges alone and dies, but if he does, then he have to loose time with his troops, which is just as good.
But since we now have captain's stats, we can exclude him from equation with sniping.
Now question can Sorcerers use Arcane missles?
Another question is does how does Slow (-50% speed) and Cold attack (-40% speed) stack? Can we slow ogres down to 30% or 10% of their speed? It would be like shooting practice for our captain.

 

[daemonkeeper]

@san What does our troop count look like?

[X] Take the middle ground
-[X]1st day fast pace march, 2nd and 3rd middle ground (with scouts)
-[X] Insist that any group that forms while marching must consist of a minimum of 2 footmen, 1 priest and 1 apprentice.
[X] Tactics
-[X] Talk with the captain if he thinks the below idea is a good one.
-[X]Summon a few (temporary water elements as ranged support and for intimidation factor.
-[X] Everyone advances together in a very obviously defensive formation. You will then try to initiate diplomacy to get the ogres to leave (at extreme range initially, then move closer if things look positive). Things like... "Yes you could kill us but we will take down most of you with us if we fight", "There is plague in the area, do you really want to be in a area with plague?".
--[X] If talking works out then we will warn them about rising undead activity and plague in the area. Staying in a area with such a virulent plague/ undead population would be bad even for ogres, especially as more troops are going to be coming to assist.
--[X] If possible we would like to hire them (if we can afford it). A form of payment could be to try and teach them how to summon food.
--[X] We would be happy to let them leave but we cannot speak for other groups of troops in the area.
-[X] If the attempt to talk fails
--[X] then we take a defensive position while keeping some footmen in reserve in case we need to handle flankers.
--[X] Have the water elements flow through their lines in an attempt to engage their mages and generally disrupt any tactics they may have.
--[X] the priests focus on healing and disrupting any ogre magi buffs.
--[X] the apprentices should be split into 2 groups and are to focus on killing 2 ogres at a time from right to left and left to right respectively. However both groups are to first focus fire on the Ogre Lord, and magi (in that order).
--[X] Jenna should drop a blizzard on the ogre lord (and hopefully the magi) in an effort to disrupt any commands/ spells that they attempt and joining the apprentices when that finishes.
--[X] the captain is to keep his snipes for if any footman looks like he is being overwhelmed and at his own discretion.

The below was my original plan (incomplete)... until I decided that betting on diplomacy and a show of force would be more efficient

[] Take the middle ground
-[]1st day fast pace march, 2nd and 3rd middle ground (with scouts)
-[] Insist that any group that forms while marching must consist of a minimum of 2 footmen, 1 priest and 1 apprentice.
[] Tactics
-[] Talk with the captain if he thinks the below idea is a good one.
-[] Send 2 water elements to scout around the left and right of the group, They are to see if there are more ogres that will enter combat hidden in the forest areas.
-[] Send the Captain + 2/3 footmen and some priests/apprentices in such a way that they look like a fairly (but larger) regular road patrol. They should approach and then loudly get into a mostly defensive formation to attract attention. The captain is then try to initiate diplomacy to get the ogres to leave. Things like... "Yes you could kill us but we will take down most of you with us if we fight", "There is plague in the area, our main focus is making sure sick people do not spread, not fighting".
--[] If talking works out then we will warn them about rising undead activity and plague in the area. Staying in a area with such a virulent plague/ undead population would be bad even for ogres, especially as more troops are going to be coming to assist.
--[] If possible we would like to hire them (if we can afford it). A form of payment could be to try and teach them how to summon food.
--[] Having a green signal flare or something similar to show the situation has been resolved would be nice
-[] If the attempt to talk fails then use a red flare (or something) to show the remaining troops that combat needs to be started. The remaining troops have split up and gone around the edges of the clearing. On combat initiation they wait for the main group to be almost upon the

 

[san]

Good thing about this tactic is that both cases are fine: If Lord don't see it, then he charges alone and dies, but if he does, then he have to loose time with his troops, which is just as good.
But since we now have captain's stats, we can exclude him from equation with sniping.
Now question can Sorcerers use Arcane missles?
Another question is does how does Slow (-50% speed) and Cold attack (-40% speed) stack? Can we slow ogres down to 30% or 10% of their speed? It would be like shooting practice for our captain.

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ok in order

yes your sorcerers can use arcane missiles, as stated you gained the adept upgrades for your sorcerers and priests last turn. This means their HP, mana, DPT and everything is changed from the base version, to the upgraded version on the left side of each bracket to the right of their base stats.

no the speed reducing effects do not stack, and besides you don't have the cold attack, you only have level 1 water elementals, possibly level 2 if you use empower spell when you cast it. The cold attack requires level 3 water elementals at minimum. Also remember the captain can only use snipe 2 times in a row before he runs out of mana even with brilliance aura.

 

[san]

What does our troop count look like?

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your troop count is in your faction status.

but ummm..... just going to put this out there since it is in your knowledge of known kingdoms state of affairs. Ogres are HIGHLY aggressive and while some can be hired as mercenaries, it takes either a LOT of gold that you do not currently have, or you have to beat the living shit out of them to earn their respect, usually by killing some of their members. In character you know if you are LUCKY and pull it off well enough you might be able to convince the other ogres to join you if you kill the lord. After all Ogre leaders tend to be very abusive to their subordinates to keep them in line.

as for your attack plan, with your tactics stat I again have to remind you from what you can see, along with what you know of ogres, they have no ranged attackers, making forcing them to come to you and picking them off as they do a very viable and easy tactic.

 

[ComradeDoge]

Maybe Jaina can challenge duels against their better witch-doctors and shamans..?

I'd omake that actually.

 

[san]

Maybe Jaina can challenge duels against their better witch-doctors and shamans..?

I'd omake that actually.

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i ummm what? just what??????


ummmm dude, what witch-doctors and shaman? there are neither of those things anywhere near here, we are fight OGRES not orcs lol you silly person.

seriously though the chances of you fighting the horde ANYTIME soon is beyond low. (and they are the only ones with either of those things. though if you meant ogre magi, well.... a challenge for them is to hit you on head with giant club that is basically an uprooted tree.

 

[verynew]

[] Talk with the captain if he thinks the below idea is a good one...
[] You will then try to initiate diplomacy to get the ogres to leave. Things like... "Yes you could kill us but we will take down most of you with us if we fight", "There is plague in the area, do you really want to be in a area with plague?"...

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I like your plan, but we need to be more agressive in it.
[X] Take the middle ground (and use it)
-[X] 1st day fast pace march, 2nd middle ground (with scouts), 3rd slow pace (formation and scouts)
-[X] during 2nd and 3rd day walks, talk to priests about their magic, rituals and undead (fast pace march is a bit hard for that)
-[X] before sleep train Empower spell a bit
[X] Tactic: agressive negotiations
-[X] walk to Ogres in defensive formation (12 footmen are vanguard, 5 footmen - cover sides and back, rest in the middle), while demanding negotiations
--[X] any sign of agression must be punished, let captain snipe Lord for 1st offence
---[X] try to take them half dead and offer them life in exchange for service
--[X] cooperation must be rewarded with fancy title
-[X] use water elementals to guard new allies, till you reach meeting point

Key points: knowledge gained from priests should help against undead, ogres could be usefull and military strength should provide serious bonus to diplomaсy

 

[daemonkeeper]

but ummm..... just going to put this out there since it is in your knowledge of known kingdoms state of affairs. Ogres are HIGHLY aggressive and while some can be hired as mercenaries, it takes either a LOT of gold that you do not currently have, or you have to beat the living shit out of them to earn their respect, usually by killing some of their members. In character you know if you are LUCKY and pull it off well enough you might be able to convince the other ogres to join you if you kill the lord. After all Ogre leaders tend to be very abusive to their subordinates to keep them in line.

as for your attack plan, with your tactics stat I again have to remind you from what you can see, along with what you know of ogres, they have no ranged attackers, making forcing them to come to you and picking them off as they do a very viable and easy tactic.

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Morning San. I do not particularly care if the diplomacy fails to hire the ogres. My main goals are to convince the ogres to leave. They are not our current problem.

Furthermore, even if they attack immediately, the tactics of holding a defensive line, keeping a few footmen in reserve, and sniping the ogres with magic is still viable.

I will add a section about both groups of apprentices prioritizing the Ogre Lord and mages if they come into range.