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It's Turbin' Time (Library of Ruina Modded/Arknights)

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If Sieghart can't use Exusiai's rifle without causing problems, then that complicates things. Priority number one is preventing Eternal Persistence from eating anyone. Using Third Impact would easily shoot down Eternal Persistence but might draw unwanted attention, while pursuing it would be safer but risks EP escaping.

The real question is whether Sieghart can use Third Impact without Exusiai's rifle. If he can use one of the cardboard pistols, that works but he would have to get closer to actually hit EP. If Mostima and Texas really are that mobile, then this is manageable. I do like the idea of hard-light chains to close the distance between Sieg and EP though.
 
Screw unwanted attention. We're going to kill it first then worry about Some jackass tried to screw us over because of this.
Plus we are for now under the umbrella of the emperor, trust our employer.
 
Does Sieg know how to trigger the art unit in the bullet? Like I don't doubt he can pull the trigger but knowing how to trigger the art unit bullet is another matter.

Edit: Iirc, Guns are consider a type of staff weapon.
 
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...I just had a very stupid idea.
lets use heavys special move. You know, the one where he goes POW HAHA.
Finger gun counts as gun, isn't it?
 
no.
You just aren't trying hard enough.
Here, Wear these holiday gloves and go punch it in the face, then try to shoot it.
 
LucidProp said:
A non-Sankta being able to use a rifle is a big red flag. Arknight's firearms use a completely different tech-base even if the results is the same (Metal object go woosh), and Laterano maintains a monopoly on anything heavier than a pistol.

It's a desperate situation, but Mostima's being watched over by a agent of Laterano, so if Fiammetta sees Sieg using a rifle we're going to have the church sending its goons to kill us.
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It's not really quite that bad. While guns are rare and expensive, they are available to non-Sankta, hell you've got Horn operating what's essentially a bloody cannon as part of her kit, along with W and Meteorite's grenade launchers. Their big limitation is not that the Church rabidly enforces their trade, but the fact that non-Sankta struggle to utilise the complex arts needed to operate one (and affording their maintenance). Laterano is not the only nation with the capability to use man-portable firearms or equivalents as well, aside from the earlier Victorian example, you've also got Iberian handcannons, which are technically pistols, but are frankly anything but.
 
The problem with any plan that relies on borrowing Exusiai's rifle is two-fold.

1st is that we're not sure if Sieg will be able to use it. Terran firearms are a type of wand, you need to know the spell that makes the gun shoot in addition to all the normal procedures that goes with shooting. It's why only Sankta like Exusiai are able to use smallarms heavier than a pistol, since every shot requires a spell. If you're good enough like Exusiai's sister, you can even have a sniper go full auto.

2nd is that assuming Sieg is successful in using it, that draws the ire of Laterano who while not as big as other nations, maintain and protect their monopoly on firearms violently. They're not above sending military assets after people who circumvent this monopoly. The Emperor can protect us since he's well connected, but not even he can get a government to stop, especially when it's suddenly a religious matter.

We have other tools besides the rifle to deal with E.P., so let's take those instead.

SirLagginton said:
It's not really quite that bad. While guns are rare and expensive, they are available to non-Sankta, hell you've got Horn operating what's essentially a bloody cannon as part of her kit, along with W and Meteorite's grenade launchers. Their big limitation is not that the Church rabidly enforces their trade, but the fact that non-Sankta struggle to utilise the complex arts needed to operate one (and affording their maintenance). Laterano is not the only nation with the capability to use man-portable firearms or equivalents as well, aside from the earlier Victorian example, you've also got Iberian handcannons, which are technically pistols, but are frankly anything but.
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Pistols and Grenade Launchers are a-ok by the Church's standards especially since the latter usually use a different firing mechanism (pneumatic like Catapult's, quasi-crossbow like Meteor's) while the former isn't as deadly as rifles, but rifles and SMGs seem to be defended pretty rabidly since Sesa's brother was killed for figuring out a way to make non-Arts based firearms while Andreana regularly gets arrested in Iberia since her sniper is a really convincing fake.

It's telling that even W who does have Sankta rifles in her collection, doesn't use them. Not during her time in Babel and Reunion.
 
LucidProp said:
Pistols and Grenade Launchers are a-ok by the Church's standards especially since the latter usually use a different firing mechanism (pneumatic like Catapult's, quasi-crossbow like Meteor's) while the former isn't as deadly as rifles, but rifles and SMGs seem to be defended pretty rabidly since Sesa's brother was killed for figuring out a way to make non-Arts based firearms while Andreana regularly gets arrested in Iberia since her sniper is a really convincing fake.

It's telling that even W who does have Sankta rifles in her collection, doesn't use them. Not during her time in Babel and Reunion.
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Iberia is a highly religious nation that used to be closely intertwined with the Laterano Church and Sesa's brother was an active threat to the underlying economic processes the way simply owning a gun doesn't qualify as. Irene even gave up her handcannon to Rhodes Engineering to examine, and nobody could make heads nor tails of it. Nobody seemed terribly surprised when Rainbow Six arrived using guns, unusual sure, but not as some grand heresy. There are a bunch of reasons why W wouldn't use guns, including the simple fact that guns are really hard to use.
 
Well. Anyway. Since it seems like the matter regarding guns is pretty weird.

I will wait until the QM declares the final word before assuming anything.

Not that it matters. Since from what I'm hearing, it's likely that Sieg won't be picking one up for a while anyway.
 
SirLagginton said:
Iberia is a highly religious nation that used to be closely intertwined with the Laterano Church and Sesa's brother was an active threat to the underlying economic processes the way simply owning a gun doesn't qualify as. Irene even gave up her handcannon to Rhodes Engineering to examine, and nobody could make heads nor tails of it. Nobody seemed terribly surprised when Rainbow Six arrived using guns, unusual sure, but not as some grand heresy. There are a bunch of reasons why W wouldn't use guns, including the simple fact that guns are really hard to use.
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Iberia is highly religious, but they've severed ties with the Lateran Church and greatly deviated from its teachings due to the latter providing no help when the Great Silence came. They would have no interest in helping Laterano maintain its monopoly on firearms, but Andreana still keeps getting arrested in Iberia regardless.

The Rainbow 6 event didn't have any Sankta in it, and we know their religion is pretty insular, so the people of Sargon naturally don't really care since they're mostly atheists from what we've seen. We know there are fake guns in the black market, ones that fire Arts instead, so they probably figured it's one of those especially since the black market is big in Sargon. When Rhodes Island did get their hands on R6's firearms though, they were pretty surprised and Tachankas files mentioned that any information regarding the work they did to keep R6's weapons functional should be hidden from any of Rhodes Island's Sankta operators which Exusiai qualifies as. There's probably a good reason for that.

Finally, I'd argue that Sieg knowing how to fire a rifle represents the same threat as Sesa's brother did. If he's dedicated enough to know how to do so, then it isn't much of a stretch to say that the Church might think he potentially knows how to make guns that could be used by non-Sankta or have techniques that could be taught to others that would allow them to use Sankta firearms. The Law is only concerned with the continued survival of the Sankta, and their monopoly on the use of massed firearms is key to that. Anything that could potentially circumvent that would be investigated by the Church, and we really don't want them to do so when it might involve having a squad of Apostolic Knights or Executors after us.

But uh, yeah, while this is a very exciting conversation, we're still not really sure if Sieg can even use Exusiai's rifle in the first place so it's a bit moot I think.
 
Sieg will definitely attempt to make [DA HEAVY]'s guns though.

Because to use that dude's gun on the level that he does, you gotta know how to make your own firearms.
 
questioningmeme said:
Sieg will definitely attempt to make [DA HEAVY]'s guns though.

Because to use that dude's gun on the level that he does, you gotta know how to make your own firearms.
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There's tech out there that allows people to use Arts even when they have no talent for it, so we definitely could make a laser rifle if Sieg ever encounters the black market.
 
LucidProp said:
There's tech out there that allows people to use Arts even when they have no talent for it, so we definitely could make a laser rifle if Sieg ever encounters the black market.
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Ah no.
I meant actual firearms. [DA HEAVY]'s guns are just standard guns. But Sieghard is capable of using it like [DA HEAVY].

Like, gunpowder type of guns. Given that the Turbulence Office has multiple members who are exclusively gun users, Sieg likely picked up their gun-making skills too.

We might even get to see the [DA HEAVY]'s super concealed carry skill at work eventually. The man can fit 2 massive sniper rifles and a rocket launcher in his back pocket.

Edit: Oi, ye questers. Do make some votes will ya? The current vote is still stagnant.
 
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About guns: the rest of the thread already explained this, but guns on the City are different then guns on Terra. It's not just point and shoot: you need to cast a spell for every individual bullet.
  1. Sieghart does have good gunplay skills (Turbulence Office has no less then three gun specialists) but I don't think they apply here. He'd have no reason to think Exu's rifle is anything but a regular one, though., As he doesn't known how Arts works.
  2. About him making his own guns: I... don't think he does? Gunmaking is a really specialized thing in the City. Turbulence Office just buys their guns from a Workshop like everyone else.
  3. He has a pretty good amount of knowledge on how guns work, but from that to actually crafting them requires quite a bit of a step. Adding to that is the fact that City guns are probably much more advanced (and thus more complex) then regular gunpowder guns.
  4. If the Rainbow Team's guns left Rhodes Island's R&D confused, Emil, Sleepy or Nicole's guns would give them a heart attack. Emil's gun even uses Anti-Blue Ammunition, bullets that pierce through all defenses and make HP gates a joke. That would probably leave Blacksteel drooling and Laterano frothing at the mouth, actually.
 
Alright let's assume heavy equipment operates on Tf2 dynamics I guess
 
thenew said:
About guns: the rest of the thread already explained this, but guns on the City are different then guns on Terra. It's not just point and shoot: you need to cast a spell for every individual bullet
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I'd like to note that the Apostolic Gun-Knights, (the big stick of Laterano's millitary) are heavily armored angels lugging around miniguns.
Their design goes hard
 
Alright, the Persistence's abilities are a bit more freeform than expected. Then again, Distortions already play fast and loose with reality, so we probably should've taken care of the mines earlier.

I expected the Stench of Betray to be pretty circumstantial, but that we need Gambino in specific surprised me. It is still a weakness, jst one that's a bit hard to exploit.

Considering our forgetfulness just nerfed one of our Ranged Combatants, it might be best that we go over the Persistence's known abilities and behaviors again. I know that at least some of us are Library of Ruina players, and thus can't fucking read, but please bear with me as I repeat information we should all already know.

So, Capone distorted into the Eternal Persistence because of his desire to survive and get some fucking food already.

He's looking for more scraps of the Light so that he could finally abandon his physical form and go full Distortion. To do so, he wants to eat people that absorbed bits of the Light from when the portal to the Outskirts flew over them. Presumably, we could chart a path of where that Portal is going by the sorts of people that EP is going after. Sieg doesn't know the portal exists though, so we'll have to take note of that later since Carmen might not talk.

During EP's Urban Nightmare phase, he showed the ability to turn anything he bites/cuts into mouths that he can control. This control is shown mostly by his creating the Maw Zombies and those Maw-Mines he left all over the road.

His next phase had him consume his Zombies (but not the mines) in order to evolve and cross into Star of the City levels of Danger. Eternal Persistence created two bat-like wings intended for speed and swooping and an organic arm canon. We smashed those adaptations to bits, but without a finisher it just evolved again. It used the Maw-Mines we forgot about to hurt Exusiai and distract us while it adapted.

The Mines can't spread, but one of us should still probably kill it. I haven't read anything that points to them being destroyed.

In the current phase, EP has grown new wings, this time designed for stability rather than speed. Without more minions to consume, it's looking for more to eat so that it can heal up and get strong. Currently its running on fumes and can't adapt properly.

From the Quest interface, we know that EP has 3 traits, only one of which is revealed: Its inability to protect against Gambino and its desire to kill him and plug this weakness. If we're going for the Gambino route, we should make sure to protect him since EP can still attack.

The other traits are Unaccountably Peckish and Marsh-Mired In Dreams of Sustenance.

Unaccountably Peckish is the priority to figure out, since probably covers its growth aspect. It's a secret that tastes of hunger, and while that might be referring to its need for food to grow and its ability to recruit more people, as we might expect from it's quote:

thenew said:
It's the only way our family can survive. You need to go there, and set up a branch. The families are snooping around our operations, and we're tight for space. We need to expand, Capone. It's all about growth. We need more.
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It might also be covering the fact that Eternal Persistence isn't a real Distortion yet. It needs more Light, mostly from people unlucky enough to get scraps of it from the portal to the Library.

(We probably should've voted for this once, and I would've suggested it if I was a bit more discerning. A reminder I, too, am a Library of Ruina player and thus am illiterate)

Marsh-Mired In Dreams of Sustenance is a secret that tastes of water, which is strange since nothing EP or Capone has done relates to water in any way. Except possibly in the 'Blood is thicker than-' sense.

...actually, that might fit. Considering the quote:

thenew said:
Kill the traitors, and you will be accepted as one of us. Kill the traitors, and you shall come of age. I believe that you- who I have placed my trust on, can achieve this. I trust you, my son.
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So this secret concerns Capino killing a traitor to be welcomed into the Siracusan Mafia. How would that concern The Eternal Persistence though? It's not Capone anymore, as it said. It's only desire is survival. How do 'family' and 'water' fit in with 'survival'?

I theorized that Marsh-Mired concerned the mental attacks and its minion-creating powers. Does that mean that its minions inevitably contribute to EP's survival? That might fit with the way it was using the zombies as food.

Its kinda concerning.


But that's pretty much everything.

Our objectives should be:
- Kill Eternal Persistence
- Don't let it feed.
- Take care of that mine it left behind, no one's shot at it yet.
- Figure out what the fuck those other two secrets are.

We can't afford to let it go very far, so grounding it is in our best interests. After that, we might be able to kill it provided we don't get eaten. Gambino might be able to kill it if he's around, but just starving EP seems to work well in preventing regen or adaptations. I'd say we should go for the unga bunga strat and just hit it until it dies. Preferably while keeping an eye on those Maw Mines.

Plan: Starve the Hunger seems like our best bet. Though we should probably add a bit of Plan: Hail Mary to get the kill.
 
You got it boss.

[X] Plan: Hungry Hungry Mary
-[X] Inform the others that you're about to do something that'll probably knock you out.
--[X] Damn the consequences of Fairy and go all-out in chasing after E.P. Jump after it from street to rooftop, and rooftop to the sky, and use those chains of hard light to slam E.P. back to the ground where everyone can wail on it to finish the creature off.
-[X] Get any people with ranged weapons who are in fighting shape and aren't already preoccupied to focus on it and try to knock it down in a hail of gunfire with Mostima slowing it down to prevent it from getting too far. Anyone without a ranged weapon should deal with any maw-zombies it has already created or may end up creating.
--[X] Exusiai, if she can still fight, and the Emperor should focus on popping its acid cannons and restricting its movement, while Mostima should continue slowing it down to help us catch up.
-[X] Evacuate as many people as you can, the closer they are to the Eternal Persistence the greater of a priority they are. Prevent it from obtaining more biomass.
-[X] While evacuating search the area for any sign of Gambino
--[X] Try to convince Gambino to help you out as best you can, and try appealing to his pride. However, if that doesn't work use of force is necessary, either that or "accidentally" leading the Eternal Persistence towards him.
---[X] If Gambino cannot be found, look around for any sturdy rope, chains, or wire and attempt to lasso onto it, and ground it so that it cannot escape
-[X] If the Eternal Persistence somehow escapes attempt to regroup and form a plan to hunt it down before it can gain too much biomass.
 
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