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In The Grim Darkness Of The 41st Millennium, Nobody Beats G.I. Joe!

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sun tzu said:
I'd say it started even earlier than that, when he decided to unify the galaxy through military conquest.
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Right after the Age of Strife where Warpstorms are everywhere and cut off a lot of planets from communications and space travel, splintering the DAOT-era humanity into scattered remnants of their former selves.

And that's when Big E started taking over Terra with the Thunder Warriors and also eliminated them discreetly when their usefulness is over to replace them with Space Marines and Custodes.

Along with Primarchs as well until they got taken and sent across the galaxy to various planets they grew up in by Chaos Gods through Erda, the perpetual woman who take personal issue of Big E and His methods.
 
I really like how you're playing the imperium straight (and not the parody it was in earlier versions before the fans started taking it seriously), yet not having the neo-fascist religious fanaticism of the Imperium whitewashed as "necessary for the survival of mankind."

I am reminded of the Druz Doctrine from the Xeelee Sequence:

"I have a vision of a Galaxy overrun by mankind from Core to Rim. Of four hundred billion stars each enslaved to the rhythms of Earth's day, Earth's year. I have a vision of a trillion planets pulsing to the beat of a human heart.

And I have a vision of a child. Who will grow up knowing neither family nor comfort. Who will not be distracted by the illusion of a long life. Who will know nothing but honor and duty. Who will die joyously for the sake of mankind.

That is a hero. And I will never know her name.

Always remember: a brief life burns brightly.
 
namar13766 said:
I really like how you're playing the imperium straight (and not the parody it was in earlier versions before the fans started taking it seriously), yet not having the neo-fascist religious fanaticism of the Imperium whitewashed as "necessary for the survival of mankind."
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Thanks, I always feel uncomfortable with WH40K stories that try to portray the Imperium as justified or even good.*
(Ciaphas Cain gets away with being less grimdark, but that's a different thing altogether.)

*It's one of the reasons I gave up on The Weaver Option, but love A Song Of Peace.

I am reminded of the Druz Doctrine from the Xeelee Sequence:

"I have a vision of a Galaxy overrun by mankind from Core to Rim. Of four hundred billion stars each enslaved to the rhythms of Earth's day, Earth's year. I have a vision of a trillion planets pulsing to the beat of a human heart.

And I have a vision of a child. Who will grow up knowing neither family nor comfort. Who will not be distracted by the illusion of a long life. Who will know nothing but honor and duty. Who will die joyously for the sake of mankind.

That is a hero. And I will never know her name.

Always remember: a brief life burns brightly.
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I haven't read the Xeelee books, but... yeah. The death-cultish glorification of a short, brutal life of military courage and devotion is a classic fascist beat.
 
sun tzu said:
It's one of the reasons I gave up on The Weaver Option
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Is one of those said reasons about Lady General Taylor wasn't screwed over by the Vandires and their allies who were High Lords of Terra including the Assassinorum and Mechanicus seeing her as a massive threat to their current status quo that needs to be eliminated no matter the cost?
 
sun tzu said:
I mean because the Imperial Guard is, canonically, the muscle of a horrifically, stupidly fascistic dystopia that relies on human wave tactics, has an entire class of political officers who are expected to shoot soldiers who retreat, and glorifies small-mindedness and ignorance.
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I know people like Kubrik Chenkov existed and the Imperial Guards units like the Death Krops used it...alot of times but I thought the idea that the Imperial Guard always used human wave tactics was a bit of a meme?
 
zezia said:
I know people like Kubrik Chenkov existed and the Imperial Guards units like the Death Krops used it...alot of times but I thought the idea that the Imperial Guard always used human wave tactics was a bit of a meme?
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When it comes to elite regiments yeah it is a bit of a meme. But for average regiments it is a legitimate tactic to them.
 
sun tzu said:
Ciaphas Cain gets away with being less grimdark, but that's a different thing altogether.
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To be fair, it's far from impossible (if unlikely) for an individual like Cain to exist in the Imperium*. Granted the reasons for his behavior can be debatable since Cain is very much an Unreliable Narrator and noted by Amberly (who can be varying degrees of Unreliable herself) to more often than not, lie about various things. Is he a kind-hearted dirty coward with (very) enlightened self-interest as he claims to be, or a genuine hero with an inferiority complex? Nobody knows.

*Said people just need to have the right amount of self-preservation and self-awareness while in a position to use said traits.
sun tzu said:
gave up on The Weaver Option
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I admit I lost interest in that fic due to how it portrayed the Emperor apparently having 4D chess-ed everything and as time went on; any time Taylor or her subordinates/allies git involved in anything, their opponents immediately take a few kilos of stupid pills. Less noticeable with the Orks, but when she seemingly effortlessly outplays Necron generals that could curb-stomp veteran space marine forces etc (along with various Eldar)? The eyes start rolling.
sun tzu said:
A Song Of Peace.
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Going to actually get around to reading that at some point.
 
On paper, The Weaver Option should be something I love - a fix-fic crossing Worm with 40K!

Except...

It's not actually a crossover with Worm. It has a bunch of characters who share the names and superpowers of Worm characters, but act and think like they're native to the Imperium. My first warning was when "Taylor" started mentally referring to Eldars as "knife-ears"... then, not that much later, when a guardsman was discouraged, the speech she gave him about why they shouldn't give up was about how the Emperor never gave up.

Then there's the whole "The Emperor is a 4D-chess-playing super mastermind always ten steps ahead of everyone else". This is the moron who made a big plan for fighting four incredibly powerful, future-seeing Warp entities, and didn't account for them messing with his plan.

There's how the Imperium are treated as "absolutely the good guys you should be rooting for", with the general impression that other than some corrupt aristocrats the Imperium was just swell.

And there's how none of Weaver's victories felt earned. At all.

So, yeah. At some point I just gave up on it.

A Song Of Peace is pretty cool, though.

Jormungandrulstr said:
Sunt is that you?
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'Tis I.
 
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sun tzu said:
On paper, The Weaver Option should be something I love - a fix-fic crossing Worm with 40K!

Except...

It's not actually a crossover with Worm. It has a bunch of characters who share the names and superpowers of Worm characters, but act and think like they're native to the Imperium. My first warning was when "Taylor" started mentally referring to Eldars as "knife-ears"... then, not that much later, when a guardsman was discouraged, the speech she gave him about why they shouldn't give up was about how the Emperor never gave up.

Then there's the whole "The Emperor is a 4D-chess-playing super mastermind always ten steps ahead of everyone else". This is the moron who made a big plan for fighting four incredibly powerful, future-seeing Warp entities, and didn't account for them messing with his plan.

There's how the Imperium are treated as "absolutely the good guys you should be rooting for", with the general impression that other than some corrupt aristocrats the Imperium was just swell.

And there's how none of Weaver's victories felt earned. At all.

So, yeah. At some point I just gave up on it.
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Oh yeah that's absolutely all true, politically it's awful I still enjoy it though. Even if I'm constantly rolling my eyes.
 
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Stormseed said:
I read somewhere that those books were written as a big middle finger to the whole fascist-overtone HFY stories so common in that genre.
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Like I said, I haven't read them, so I couldn't tell you...
...but if you want to read some military sci-fi that feels like a middle finger to the infestation of fascist-overtone mil-sci-fi stories out there, then I do recommend the The Lost Fleet series (written by an actual ex-military man), which has little patience for Hard Men Making Hard Decisions While Hard.
 
sun tzu said:
Hard Men Making Hard Decisions While Hard.
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Though the fun thing is that even in the Imperium there are factions that violently disagree with that idea. The Salamanders and Lamenters are two prime examples.
Sacrifice civilians etc in order to achieve a 'more important goal' while they are anywhere nearby? Pray you already have your last will and testament already set up because you are not going to have time to fill it out afterward.
 
sun tzu said:
Before the XIIIth Black Crusade.
But less than a century before. Like, couple decades or something.
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This feels really weird with characters refering the runious powers left and right. I had always thought that post-War Of The Beast and prior to Era Indomitus that the policy of both the inquisition and the grey knights was to purge almost anyone not vital for military command who witnessed chaotic thingies or spoke about such openly?

Am I off?
 
As I understand it, that was the Policy.

Good luck enforcing that perfectly in a nation the size of most of the Milky Way Galaxy.
 
16 characters said:
inquisition and the grey knights was to purge almost anyone not vital for military command who witnessed chaotic thingies or spoke about such openly
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There was an incident of the Space Wolves taking personal issue at the Inquisition and Grey Knights when they protect the surviving Guardsmen and civilians from being purged after fighting off a Chaos attack on Planet Armageddon.

Inquisition and Grey Knights got humiliated by the sons of Leman Russ.
 
Warmachine375 said:
There was an incident of the Space Wolves taking personal issue at the Inquisition and Grey Knights when they protect the surviving Guardsmen and civilians from being purged after fighting off a Chaos attack on Planet Armageddon.

Inquisition and Grey Knights got humiliated by the sons of Leman Russ.
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Yes I know of The Months Of Shame, but I was under the impression it was Bobby G who got the Grey Knights to actually change policy in zones not involving the sons of Russ.

Am I off? The area this story takes place in certainly not someplace the space wolves are in..or maybe that they have ever even visited for that matter.


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ScyBlade said:
As I understand it, that was the Policy.

Good luck enforcing that perfectly in a nation the size of most of the Milky Way Galaxy.
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This makes more sense. Thank you.
 
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ScyBlade said:
As I understand it, that was the Policy.

Good luck enforcing that perfectly in a nation the size of most of the Milky Way Galaxy.
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This makes more sense. Thank you.
Warmachine375 said:
True, there are other human civilizations like the Interex, for example, that managed to survive the Age of Strife, rebuilt themselves, and thrived. The Imperium just took issue with that and intended for all of humanity under its banner, one way or another.
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Hell there are STILL the leagues of Vottan even if they don't consider themselves human anymore, it will sadly probably be a while before the Joes meet them. Which is a shame because like the T'au, while still being assholes they are notably less so than the corpse worshipping imperials.
 
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