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How would you turn Gate into an even better Story?

Coiler said:
-If the setting can only really support cheap adventure stories, you might as well have it be a more exciting cheap adventure than a "helicopters vs. bandits" boring cheap adventure.
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To be honest, there's nothing in gate that justifies sending Cobra Gunships or Type 62 tanks. Keeping a squadron stationed at the JSDF Camp for emergencies makes sense. But the JSDF guys should mostly be putzing around in Humvees, Armored Cars, and utility choppers.

We should also see a heck of a lot more civilian specialists being either escorted by or embedded in the military units. Linguists, anthropologists, negotiators, etc. Something like Doctors or Engineers without borders providing good will gestures. So on and so forth.

As for the generic fantasy races. If you're going to use them. OWN IT. And deconstruct it.

For instance :

I did a write up on making the Warrior Bunnies actually interesting rather than generic promiscuous bunny girl in a PM a while back and it amounted to them forming there own Empire that was known for being able to recover and remount invasions in a fraction of the time due to how accelerated their biology was. They do everything from breed to mature to aging faster and it all factored into their society being supercharged, violent, and extremely expansionist.

On the other hand their metabolisms also meant they were constantly seeking ways to increase crop yields and put a premium on keeping their territory compact to minimize the border regions they had to man at any one time. The point being, they can regenerate numbers quickly, but cannot sustain as many warriors in total.

It creates an interesting opportunity to show how even aggressive and violent societies are not stupid.
 
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Generalissimo said:
Not-a-Putin is the obvious answer.
Having more Russians can properly counter Japanese/American overexposure.
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There is certainly possibility for introspection via juxtaposition, with the Japanese chaffing under the presence of American, Russian, and Chinese 'observers' and how their presence makes them uncomfortable because it feels like they are getting dictated to when in their own country, and contrast with the fact that they are basically occupying the far side of the gate and doing the same to the people there.

Still, yeah, the big problem is that the gate is so big in terms of global implications that it would be impossible for it to be anything but an international project. So embrace that and all the complications it brings. At least make it a proper orgy of violence rather than a solo wankfest!
 
I'm going to be completely real here, if your idea for making GATE better is 'add foreigners' then it's a bad idea pretty much by default.

Like it's funny to imagine the dudes from Generation Kill taking the place of Itami's recon squad, but it's funny to imagine, you shouldn't actually attempt to execute it. Regardless of what eventuated - and what eventuated was basically a right wing militaristic circle jerk - the JSDF is core to the premise. Like, it's in the title, for God's sake.

Academia Nut said:
Still, yeah, the big problem is that the gate is so big in terms of global implications that it would be impossible for it to be anything but an international project.
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'It's in the middle of our capital city, go away.'
 
Ford Prefect said:
'It's in the middle of our capital city, go away.'
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"Due to violation of treaty commitments with the United States and allegations of war crimes that the Japanese government has thus far been unable to adequately prove false due to not allowing international observers, the UN Security council has passed a resolution enacting trade sanctions of militarily important goods to Japan. The expected effects on Japanese industry are..."

Alternatively

"Would you like it not be your capital anymore?"

Both of those are of course unrealistically far beyond the point where Japan would go "Yeah, actually, you can send some observers over to keep an eye on things but its still our playground" and the rest of the world goes "Yeah, yeah, we're cool with that. Hey, our corporations have special skills for setting up the infrastructure you need over there that would be super useful for you *wink**wink**nudge**nudge*"

Japan not letting anyone in is frankly stupid. One, the attack on them would have their allies lining up to help both for selfless and selfish reasons and them keeping the US out is basically impossible. Two, the implications of the gate are enough that the superpowers would want their piece of the action and would absolutely be willing to stick the global economy on the line to get Japan to back down and let them in. Again, you can also have the juxtaposition of the Japanese rankling over the fact that you have foreigners setting shop in their capital because they aren't strong enough to resist them showing up with the fact that they are setting up shop in Alnus because no one there has the strength to resit them to say something about the allure of hegemonic power and how it is also not nice to have it applied to you.

If the series were smaller, like say a significantly stronger force of monsters emerging through the gate and the focus was on the JSDF fighting back then and there then there would be more to be said about keeping it focused solely there, but the series lets the scope expand beyond that. That it feels the need to address the elephant in the room of "What's the rest of the world doing with regards to this world shaking development?" by taking the least realistic approach that only works to make Japan look strong and the rest of the world look foolish is one of the big things that weighs the series down. It could go with "Japanese politicians are skillfully playing the US, China, and Russia off each other to keep them more interested in interfering with each other than with us" which would be great since it is at least a realistic sort of Japanese chest beating... but it has to go down the tired right-wing "Politicians are stupid and interfere with military operations and so have to be kept out of things and put in their place" stance so having the politicians skillfully politic doesn't really fit into things.

Like, even Stargate had the Americans in the story bringing in the Russians and Chinese eventually because the implications to the rest of the world were too much for them to keep the rest of the countries out forever without risking a war they couldn't afford. The other countries didn't really come up much until Atlantis where it was a fully international expedition, but the show at least acknowledged that they had an interest in the situation. Hell, you can keep it as low as "There's a bunch of UN observers at base camp and we've been given licenses for US military hardware. Seems they're willing to sell us weapons but don't want to put their own people on the line. Still, gonna be a whole lot of new factory jobs, going to make the voters real happy on that. Keep the observers happy but keep them from getting their noses in things." Boom, international implications addressed, don't have to add anyone non-Japanese in unless you want to have political shenanigans, and you can remind people of Japan's strong industrial advantages while also subtly putting down the rest of the world for not wanting to get their hands dirty directly. You can even do things like having a CIA op fuck up during negotiations with the Empire add unnecessary complications and be able to have Japan chide America in a way that the rest of the world goes "Yeah, can totally see that happening, fucking Yanks" instead of the whole "Only America uses black soldiers!" thing.

I think the big thing is that its so much more interesting when people are being intelligent but don't have all the information so their fuckups are realistic and there can be some narrative heft to things. People see all of this potential and how it is being squandered on lame "Japan STRONK" shit. It's the frustration of "You're good but you can be better!"
 
Ford Prefect said:
Stopped reading here.

Actually, I lie, I laughed, because your attitude is exactly the same as the strawman real world villains that Yanai wrote into his novel. Way to prove him right lol
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Realistically, while any sort of military action is cartoon villain grade bullcrap, soft power probably would be brought to bare to coax Japan into sharring. If only in the exploration of the magical world. Which would amount to what? A couple of symbolic platoons and some slots in the civilian diplomatic effort.

And no, we have an entire Virgin planet so our economy is immune fuck you guys LOL!

Is not a valid argument for Japan to make.

That said, as you say, adding foreigners doesnt actually fix GATEs underlying problems.
 
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Not so serious idea:

I don't really know too much about the world of Gate, but I had posted this in Crazy Crossovers and decided that I might as well crosspost it here, now that I know that this thread exists.

Gate: Thus the Saints Fought Here

Saint's Row/Gate: Thus the JSDF Fought Here.

Instead of Ginza, the gate happens to open up in the independent city state of Steelport, home of the Saints. (Post-vengeance ending of Saint's Row 3)

In addition to the obvious merits of the cross such as "The Boss going to town on a roman legion like army, throwing their bodies left and right with a dildo bat while his homies do drive by shootings on the army's flanks", having the Gate be centered in Steelport even adds a few complications to the plot that should prevent it from being a retread of canon, or even adds a few justifications for canon events.
  • There is a much better excuse for the United States to not have any say in the way the portal is run, namely, they tried to fuck with the city once and lost two carriers doing so, one of which could fly. Also, public/international opinion of them is likely to be low, because they pretty much tried to level of their own cities.
  • The US has a much better excuse to engage in acts of dickery against the owners of the portal, namely, that the Saints blew up two of their carriers and also conquered a city.
  • Logistics. The Saints are probably having difficulties with things like feeding an entire city, and hey, look at all that verdant farmland just on the other side of the portal that the US can't possibly attempt to embargo! Plenty of excuse for an aggressive campaign, not that the Saint's really needed an excuse. And then, of course, the Empire starts up a scorched Earth campaign, so things are likely to get more than a bit ugly.
  • The Boss jacking a wyvern by leaping onto it from a helicopter. A helicopter would probably be more effective, but... wyverns.
  • Apparently, the capitol of the Empire has a fairly large and prominent red light district. That seems like it could probably be turned purple.
  • The Boss's unique approach to diplomacy.
  • An entirely new market for the Saint's merchandising.

More seriously: I kind of like the idea of most of the magic world's militaries being largely helpless, and the story possibly starting with something of a curbstomp (lots of drama potential from the people with PTSD from killing so many people, but then, that might not be genre appropriate), only to be interrupted by a a bunch of wizards going "Oi, what's all this then?" and participating in the fight.

They don't need to be all that good in a conventional, stand up fight, but, when forced into the role, they might be really good at sneaky guerrilla warfare stuff.

Possibly have the Earth-siders actually need to consult with natives of the land to figure out what they would consider to be common sense countermeasures.

Have both sides be forced to adapt to outside context problems militarily, and possibly economically as well (mass production v transmutation/teleportation/infinite energy from golem turbines/some other magical thing that would cause a huge economic upset over in the real world).

The point is: wizards.
 
I'm just there for the curbstomp. Oh, the glorious curbstomp! AHAHAHAHAHA! YES! MORE! MORE! ALL THE BEAUTIFUL CARNAGE! *Hysterical laughter*

*cough* Didn't meant to do that but anyway, I'm just here to see the massacre of the Old World by HELL YEAH! MORE DAKKKA FOR YOU! FOR YOU! AND YOU TOO! like I always do in Shogun 2 Total War: Fall of the Samurai by pitting cannons and gattling guns against Ashigaru...

Wow, looking back at this post makes me think I'm a sociopath. I should refrain from watching Gate's massacres battles from now.
 
Reveen said:
If you're not being cruel when you're telling a story about modern soldiers slaughtering thousands of Medieval conscripts, then you ain't being honest.
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They're not even conscripts, they're peasant levies! Farmers who sign up for a month plus of work before needing to go back to their families and ensure that they don't die from starvation!

But hey, peasant exploding because of modern artillery is totally cool guys. :cool:
 
As it stands, the right wing military circle jerk isn't the only problem GATE has. The story increasingly loses focus around the time Itami and friends rescue Tuka and fight the fire dragon for the first time. The final episode of the last anime really demonstrates it, when huge amounts of the episode are spent following completely random people around, and it continues with the new season. I like Kurokawa's non-judgmental clinic in the slums but like, why is that taking up screen time? And so on.
 
"We killed everyone at Alnus."

"Then we killed everyone who didn't die at Alnus, at Italica. Oh, and we found a young woman who happens to be the Emperor's daughter and she wants to negotiate."

*MISSION ACCOMPLISHED*​
 
Depends on how close, I would have to make it.

If I wanted to, I would make Gate take post nuclear fall. Where you have some hyper technologically vault, some random raiders, and tribes running for clean air and water. It would be interesting to see a duel story, where you have the fantasy world people thinking they opens a portal to hell. What with the nuclear radiation rapidly killing people who cross in, the land is arid and the water is sour.

Also there are heavily mutated people pouring out the other side with strange weapons that are seeking to burn the land and take it for themselves.

On the other side, you have someone seeking a home fleeing the nuclear wastes. If that makes sense?

If I had to make it super close, I would probably make it a Neo colonialism story about exploitation of an tech inferior people.
 
Ford Prefect said:
I'm going to be completely real here, if your idea for making GATE better is 'add foreigners' then it's a bad idea pretty much by default.

Like it's funny to imagine the dudes from Generation Kill taking the place of Itami's recon squad, but it's funny to imagine, you shouldn't actually attempt to execute it. Regardless of what eventuated - and what eventuated was basically a right wing militaristic circle jerk - the JSDF is core to the premise. Like, it's in the title, for God's sake.



'It's in the middle of our capital city, go away.'
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Then the premise is dumb. As is japan.
 
Giving this thread a second look, I am beginning to think that the existence of stories like Gate actually highlights an issue about storytelling in regards to the status of the state from which these stories are coming from.

If Gate was taking place in the U.S., then audiences probably wouldn't bat an eye at other countries unsuccessfully pressuring the U.S. to open the Gate to international observers. This would be understandable given the fact that, in real life, the U.S. - while not a hegemon anymore (if it ever was, even during the years immediately after the Cold War) - is the dominant power on the planet, and while its actions (such as denying the Gate to international observers) have consequences, so do any ill-conceived attempts by other states to pressure the U.S. into doing what it doesn't want to do (such as sending black ops teams to retrieve the "guests" from the fantasy world). Other states can - perhaps with some more difficulty - also justify this conceit; Chinese movies that deal with international politics are also increasingly taking on the conceit that while the U.S. might make noises during an international incident, it is ultimately just inconsequential flavor text, and Chinese affairs are ultimately Chinese affairs.

Japan is in a somewhat unique spot in the sense that is not exactly a very strong state, but has a disproportionate amount of cultural sway in terms of its international media exports. Despite its large but struggling economy, Japan is right next to two major powers (China and Russia), and is often considered to have been the junior partner in its relationship with the United States since World War II. This is also complicated by the fact that Japan was an imperial belligerent during World War II, and some of the historical disputes have not yet been resolved, leading to any move perceived to be rightist to incur calls of "glorifying Japan's imperialism" from some of its neighbors.

It is not uncommon for authors to portray their own states as strong - certainly not "stronger than everyone else" (as was basically the case in Mahouka), but at least strong enough to safeguard their own core interests (as Gate wants to depict Japan) - even if such states are not actually very strong in real life. Clearly, there comes a point where one goes too far, where one goes into nationalistic territory - such as, say, the part where Japanese special forces run circles around the CIA SOG, the Russian Spetsnaz, and Chinese special forces - but in this discussion, we also see disapproval towards the idea that the engagement of the fantasy world is a Japan-led effort without international involvement. I think the question, then, is whether or not certain authors are expected to sacrifice their stories before the altar of political realities. Must Yanai Takumi be decried for writing Gate: Thus the JSDF Fought There because he happens to be Japanese, while a hypothetical American military fantasy author writing Gate: Ooh-rah would get a pass for the fortune of being born in the U.S.? Are authors not allowed to write stories where their own countries go it alone because they aren't "strong" in real life? ^_^;
 
Kei said:
Must Yanai Takumi be decried as unrealistic for writing Gate: Thus the JSDF Fought There because he happens to be Japanese, while a hypothetical American military fantasy author writing Gate: Ooh-rah would get a pass for the fortune of being born in the U.S.? ^_^;
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Yes. Because that's how you get Tom Kratman. Do you want Tom Kratman?

Edit : Actually I take that back. Tom Kratman considers his homeland to be too weak.
 
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