How would you turn Gate into an even better Story?

MrLZRS

Good Riddance
Banned
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No Longer here...
So there's this anime most of you probably heard of, it's called "Gate: Thus the JSDF Fought There". It's a story with an Interesting Premise, but full of Wasted Potential because of the Author's Far-Right Ultra nationalistic sentiments.


So I ask you SV: How would you improve this Story? Make it more Tolerable and Believable.

Examples I've seen are:

  • Change the Depiction of Americans into Allies.
  • Make the Gate Incident into an International Concern (Adding Foreign Tourists and Workers into the number of casualties and Foreign Embassies and Missions being attacked by the Empire's Incursion.)
  • Deconstructing the Story itself.
 
I only have a passing knowledge of the series but if I were to write it, this fantasy Empire would look more like something out of WoW or Divinity rather than Roman Legions with a sprinkle of High Fantasy.

Go all in. Give the whole Empire sorcerers with nuke spells, dragons that can beat fighter jets, turn it up to 11 and break the dial off.

Also, less JSDF BEST MILITARY SUCK JAP DICK AMERICA and more XCOM OF HUMANITY VS FANTASY EMPIRE.
 
One really simple thing is culling down the section where they go back to Japan. Retain the bits like the Diet inquiry and Pina's secret meeting, but ditch basically everything else. It's filler, in my opinion, especially because by the end of it, you're left right where you began.

"Tuka isn't all right in the head. Pina needs to negotiate with the Japanese or the Empire is doomed."

The stuff where Japanese SF chew through Spetsnaz, Chinese Spec-Ops, and CIA SOG - unless it comes back later on down the line is pointless masturbation.

Then give the 3rd Recon Team some characterization. Try to spread it across the whole team, not just Itami, and then emphasize how war effects a person. From what I've read, most of the (real-life) JSDF signed up so that they could help out after a natural disaster, not so that they could travel between dimensions and slay dragons. At Alnus they slaughtered almost a hundred-thousand people, that's not something that should be so easily brushed off. Same thing with the Ginza attack, which is basically forgotten as soon as one turns the page. Itami was there. Maybe nobody else in the squad was, but Itami had a front row seat, and that's some heavy baggage to carry.
 
I think there are primarily two major things I would have tried to do with the premise. First, instead of a full-scale invasion of Tokyo with mass civilian casualties and enslavement of naked Japanese girls, I probably would've preferred a much smaller and less catastrophic incident that make a measured response by the Japanese government more justifiable, thus negating what was basically a full-scale counter-invasion by the JSDF. Second, while I don't mind the fact that the empire may continued to be portrayed as a violent and cruel agrarian society, I would not mind a greater emphasis on the modern cast and the Japanese institutions trying to think about the ramifications of humanity's first contact with another civilization, and how the mere existence of our world may influence the fantasy culture, for better or for worse. Or, basically, "If the Prime Directive is broken through no fault of anyone's, how do we proceed from there?" ^_^;
 
I've heard Outbreak Company was a saner take on the subject matter. But I haven't seen it to be sure

Wasn't outbreak company more 'cultural export' than 'LOL I MURDER YOU WITH COBRA GUNSHIPS!!!'?

One thing that would help a lot is to treat the Empire with more respect. No, I don't mean some sort of bullshit morale parity or putting them on an even military footing with magic, I simply mean not acting like they're simpering morons who cannot conceive of things like bathouses, or fast food, or cities of a million+ people.

There were times when Ancient Rome had all of those things and while they might be shocked by the details the concepts shouldn't be leaving them catatonic with how awesome Japan is.
 
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Wasn't outbreak company more 'cultural export' than 'LOL I MURDER YOU WITH COBRA GUNSHIPS!!!'?

One thing that would help a lot is to treat the Empire with more respect. No, I don't mean some sort of bullshit morale parity or putting them on an even military footing with magic, I simply mean not acting like they're simpering morons who cannot conceive of things like bathouses, or fast food, or cities of a million+ people.

There were times when Ancient Rome had all of those things and while they might be shocked by the details the concepts shouldn't be leaving them catatonic with how awesome Japan is.

Well, broad strokes. The soft cultural invasion is, in a way, a lot more insidious than the military adventurism in GATE. Seems to me like there's a little more ambiguity in that core conflict.

But of course, GATE's about smashing down hordes of inferior goons with F-4s and Type 64s, so I digress. Perhaps a more multinational mission would have been more interesting. Soft-hearted PM sends out feelers to neighbors for Great Expedition of much Cultural Sharings and Progress, end up with internal backstabbing and an Alnus populace that have to figure out not 1, but 3 or more cultures within the same army on semi-equal terms. Might have to switch the viewpoint character too.
 
Less ridiculous japanese Nationalism and more self awareness about cultural differences?
 
Well, broad strokes. The soft cultural invasion is, in a way, a lot more insidious than the military adventurism in GATE. Seems to me like there's a little more ambiguity in that core conflict.
In a way, I suppose. Comedic silliness aside, it's about them introducing concepts like equal rights and mass education to a medieval society, which sounds pretty good in theory but is, I'm sure, never quite that simple in real life. On the other hand, the show does outright reject brute force imperialism, so that's good. I thought it felt a bit like it was speaking out against Japanese ultranationalism, although I don't know how much of that was intentional.
 
With the new season out, I was sort of thinking about how a lot of the strong parts of the series have to do with the people on the far side of the gate attempting to deal with something that they are only just starting to realize is an outside context problem. Like how the emperor is continuing to use the gate in a push for centralization, to wipe out the armies of his vassals and sweep away the senate as a political body with teeth, not actually recognizing the actual danger because he still thinks he's playing by the old rules.

That's really neat when you think about it actually. In another reality he could have gone down in history as his people's Louis XIV, regarded as a centralizer who broke the backs of corrupt nobles to install more modern institutions in their place. You can have all of these people acting like actual people with agendas and intelligence, all clashing with the fact that they are up against a force that can utterly steamroll them.

I've also sort of batted about the idea that for something like this, a big military confrontation should be seen of as a failure state the protagonists should be desperately trying to prevent. Why? Because as long as they can keep it down to a plausibly deniable 'policing action' Japan can remain in primary control of the gate and only have to invite in token international observers. If they actually get into any sort of serious slugging fest, even if they win that means that the international community is going to step in and Japan gets demoted from sole controller of the gate to senior partner or even secondary partner. If the US, Russia, and China want in, there is nothing that Japan can do to really stop them, the international pressure that can applied is simply too great. So long as everything remains at a dull roar and the most they have to do is occasionally defend a village or town from bandits Japan can act more or less in its own interests without losing military control to America/the UN and can thus set down the deepest economic ties for the long run.

This also lets you excise the Diet bit about the gross and predictable "left wing career politician tries to micromanage the military and they just don't know what it's like down there" trope. Make them getting summoned back to the Diet be more about how "No, seriously, we have this under control we don't need backup" and at least then the other nation's involvement can go down to them trying to get a more accurate picture of what is going on, and them being less stupid about it by actually sending in hit squads of their own people. Again, all America has to do is to make sure that the people from the other side of the gate are extended an invitation to the UN in New York and they get what they want, no need for violence.

Also, by having Japan not want this to go to all out war, you can get scenes with the ambassadors basically eventually breaking it down into terms the people from the empire understand by saying "Look, we don't want this to be an actual war because then our liege nation steps in and we don't want that." The relationship between the US and Japan is obviously more complex and subtle than that, but it gets across the concept and would produce a suitably horrified reaction from the generals and senators they would be telling it to. Could also be useful for telling them "Look, don't start shit, it ended badly for us"

But then again none of that would feed into the ultranationalism and JAPAN STRONK of the author, so yeah, unlikely in the least.
 
I would have liked if they had actually based the fantasy world on D&D...and all the absolute mindfuckery that D&D brings with their ability to warp the very fabric of the universe. Then this ultra-modern military (ooh-Rah!) comes charging in and some wizard goes "Fuck this" and reverses the gravity, turns invisible, Vastly Alters the Landscape, etc, and the military has to adapt to the fact they can't steamroll the place.
 
I would have liked if they had actually based the fantasy world on D&D...and all the absolute mindfuckery that D&D brings with their ability to warp the very fabric of the universe. Then this ultra-modern military (ooh-Rah!) comes charging in and some wizard goes "Fuck this" and reverses the gravity, turns invisible, Vastly Alters the Landscape, etc, and the military has to adapt to the fact they can't steamroll the place.

Actually, in any other series the modern soldiers would be mooks to the guys with swords and tanks, so its kind of refreshing that the modern world has capacities that the magical one doesn't. It would be nice for there to be either some semblance of balance or for it to be less about how one side can curbstomp the other and more about these two alien cultures trying to maneuver around each other, a variety of individuals all pursuing their own agendas and disturbing a delicate situation.
 
I would have liked if they had actually based the fantasy world on D&D...and all the absolute mindfuckery that D&D brings with their ability to warp the very fabric of the universe. Then this ultra-modern military (ooh-Rah!) comes charging in and some wizard goes "Fuck this" and reverses the gravity, turns invisible, Vastly Alters the Landscape, etc, and the military has to adapt to the fact they can't steamroll the place.

All fights become turn based. :V
 
You Know, This story would be a lot better if this story doesn't have "Nippon Banzai!" Bullshit and the Political Climate of earth isn't Retarded. Just My Two Cents.

In Fact I have Seen Three FanFics that did the Examples I listed in my First Post:
 
I know this is going to sound a mite hypocritical coming from me, the guy who ostracized all the Japanese characters from my attempt at this, but has anyone seen a Gate fanfiction where they don't add a whole bunch of people from another country/media?

For example, all of the fics that MrLZRS presented add a strong US military presence. So is that alright, to dilute the Japanese military circle-jerking by introducing US military circle-jerking?
 
I'd make the JSSDF members into cute girls who cater to a wide variety of otaku fetishes. I would also turn the things they fight into monstergirls. Tentacles would probably be involved at some point.

What do I win? :V
 
You Know I'll be honest with you. One of the reasons I kinda like Gate is because it's a Curb-Stomp Battle. But the Nippon Banzai! elements reminds me of the time my Country was Occupied by Imperial Japan. I don't want to be reminded of their mistakes, since We're Friends along with the Americans and the Spaniards.

Sorry, I'm rambling.
 
I will add this one line to GATE:

A Japanese commander tries to give an inspirational speech to a bunch of Asian-allied soldiers: Philippines, Indonesia, Korea, Malaysia, China, Taiwan, Vietnam, whatever, and he succeeds, before trying to be all cool and ends with:

"Asia for Asians!"

Aaaand the coalition falls apart.
 
- The fantasy world is less diet DnD/Final Fantasy, more Dark Souls. It's a dangerous world full of terrifying monsters, inhuman races, and powerful sorcery

- Rather than a generic Empire/Kingdom, magic is central to government. Usually in the form of a magocracy or a puppet government run in the background by megalomaniacal sorcerers.

- The relationship between Earth and the other world is coloured by a vague sense of mutually assured destruction. Sure, soldier to soldier, army to army Earth stomps all over the fantasy world. But sorcerers are a different matter and can burn cities to the ground before you snipe them in the head, higher power monsters can be brought down by conventional military through WW1 style attrition, magical plagues would be able to wipe out half the planet. Both sides of the gate are perfectly capable of ending civilization in the other, albeit at likely cost to themselves.

- The idea of "modern" is challenged. Sure our technology is better than the shit most peasants and knights have. But the ivory tower mages can accomplish things we can't even dream of and sometimes deign to share their miracles with the masses.

The inequalities in their society are stark but are driven by magic. Gender, race, and religion can be wiped away in favour of the completely random chance of being able to touch magic. Things are worse in a lot of ways, better in fewer ways, but mostly just different.

- The biggest fear on the part of Earth is the longevity inherent with magic. Technology has an expiration date, anything we create will eventually decay into inert junk. But powerful enough mages can live for millennia, and a magic sword forged ten thousand years ago will be just as shiny when you dig it out of the ground.

This means that should Earth's civilization fall, we run the risk of being dominated by some undead sorcerer king who just woke up in his tomb while the last gun falls apart and the last helicopter rusts into nothing. Our D in MAD is far more devastating than theirs.

So basically, the idea that modern armies can totally stomp all over a fantasy world is technically right, but at the same time very, very wrong.
 
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When the Gate opens, the prime-minister of Japan sees an opportunity. He formally annexes the people on the other side of the Gate and tells them he will let them keep some independence if they help him get reelected.

But a team of crack Japanese journalists find out about the plan and investigate. They eventually find the tapes of the cover-up and the prime-minister is forced to resign in an event known as GATEgate.
 
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Make it like-for lack of a better example, Indiana Jones.

Officially, it would be a period of peace. The Empire got the hint and immediately returned the living captives and paid the reparations. The JSDF still gets the area around Alnus as its own. Oh, there's still tension, but outright fighting is prevented by the Empire's knowledge that it can't win and the Japanese government's knowledge that an imperial collapse will be worse.

Now, there's research and study going on, and enter one equivalent of Indy, along with the cast of sidekicks from both sides of the gate. They hear about a secret MacGuffin...
_ _ _

Why do I like this idea?

-I think it can preserve the form of Gate the most. Most odds-eveners quickly turn it into "in name only" fics. So this is a way of sidestepping the dilemma of "The canon story's most unimaginative fantasy" and "so different you might as well make an original magic-tech fic".
-The military balance is rendered irrelevant-all the opponents have to be is threatening to a few skilled but ordinary humans.
-If the setting can only really support cheap adventure stories, you might as well have it be a more exciting cheap adventure than a "helicopters vs. bandits" boring cheap adventure.
 
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