more words comming? wee!!!
*starts smashing the f5 key constantly in the hope of more wordz*
*starts smashing the f5 key constantly in the hope of more wordz*
Hermione learns a thing
- Thread starter mp3.1415player
- Start date
- Location
- The general area. Possibly behind you.
Mua ha ha... 
- Location
- Sydney
Yeah Dumbledores
As for fourth year Dumbledore's eyes had a gleam of triumph following hearing Harry explain how Voldemort took his blood for the resurrection ritual. That suggests he has some plan which going on so he probably did know that Moody was an imposter. Now I doubt canon events were the plan out but I could see Dumbledore having the idea that the blood bond and Voldemort killing HP would allow him to survive. Probably planned to take him out on a Order mission and have Voldemort kill him after the horcruxes were destroyed. Tts just that was interupted by being cursed
First year might have been a trap for Voldemort rather than a test for Harry but its still risks the students so yeah not nice.
As for fourth year Dumbledore's eyes had a gleam of triumph following hearing Harry explain how Voldemort took his blood for the resurrection ritual. That suggests he has some plan which going on so he probably did know that Moody was an imposter. Now I doubt canon events were the plan out but I could see Dumbledore having the idea that the blood bond and Voldemort killing HP would allow him to survive. Probably planned to take him out on a Order mission and have Voldemort kill him after the horcruxes were destroyed. Tts just that was interupted by being cursed
Raelysk
Green coffee dragon
Huh... What if... Hermione did not actually found anything special about magic? What if it's just her doing wizardry thing accordingly to her "understanding" - but actually her faith?.. And magic does things it considers most believable for her via subconsciousness? And parents can cast only because that's what Hermione wants?..
Well, I should stop here, apparently I play Bloodborne with it's "nightmares" and "insight" concepts too much 😅 It might be fun to see some apocrypha omake based on such delusions, but it would be to easy to overstep boundaries, considering that main character is minor.
Well, I should stop here, apparently I play Bloodborne with it's "nightmares" and "insight" concepts too much 😅 It might be fun to see some apocrypha omake based on such delusions, but it would be to easy to overstep boundaries, considering that main character is minor.
- Location
- Bosnia
You're evil... but I don't care as long as we get more wordz 😋Mua ha ha...
- Location
- The general area. Possibly behind you.
I very much doubt it was a trap for Voldemort. It was something that four first year students successfully penetrated with honestly remarkably little effort. It was utterly underwhelming as anything aimed at someone with any real skills, as can be seen that Quirrel was waiting for them when they tried it. He just strolled through...
Possibly the most charitable interpretation is that he's toughening up young Harry... forgetting in his dotage that what would be a short period of character building hardship and adventure for Dumbledore is a lifetime of misery and terror for Harry.
OolongTeaDrinker
Nonbinary Trickster And Tea-Drinker
- Pronouns
- She/They
The real surprise isn't that Voldemort or the trio was able to sneak in, it's that no-one else decided to wander past a Cerberus. I know I would; admittedly, I'm probably not the best measure of sanity, though.
- Location
- Phoenix, AZ, USA
When trying to get a idea on Dumbledore's self image I tried to look up his "golden throne". The best I could find was a blinged up ripoff of a British royal throne. If this is true (and I'm not saying it is true) then this might give us a idea of how Dumbledore views himself and the world.
On a different note it seems to me that all of Dumbledore's plans((?), if there are Dumbledore plans) (if things go the Harry runs out of luck way) have a Harry is dead and Tom is alive part.
On a different note it seems to me that all of Dumbledore's plans((?), if there are Dumbledore plans) (if things go the Harry runs out of luck way) have a Harry is dead and Tom is alive part.
Well, it probably helped that Cerberus was actually pretty effective, aside from one weakness and the one whom knew it having horrible opsec.
That is a very good take on Dumbledore. Really reminds me of one of my favorite Harry Potter fanfic, Harry had developed full on MPD. And the thought that went through Dumbledore's head when he learned that? "Harry can be both the innocent child and the magical weapon as needed. " After which he did a full psychic dive into Harry and chained his 'warrior' personality with spells, and blatantly pulling or supressing that personality at his own whim, NOT HARRY'S.
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The only one interpretation I've seen that makes Dumbledore look not... as bad, is that Albus scrambled to lower the difficulty as much as possible when he realized Harry and his friends were going to protect the stone. Which actually makes him look worse considering that to do so, he'd have to have been there at the time. And could have easily claimed (to them) that he came back on a hunch. The 'flew to the ministry on a broomstick' doesn't really hold up with later worldbuilding. But as an 'excuse' as to give an 'opening' for Quirrlemort to make an attempt it does. Enough time to go through it all.
There's also the bit where apparently a Cerberus' weaknesses aren't well enough known that Voldemort didn't know. So not a 'anyone could pass it'. Apparently. I'd imagine that it'd have come up somewhere. But then, the existence of a Basilisk is also mostly unknown by how the books have it. The whole 'Slytherin's Monster' one would think that even rumors would end up sticking a Basilisk in the role. Or, go with an even more 'powerful' fictional version. Like a 'King Basilisk'. Or a special breed 'Slytherin Basilisk'. The part where Harry and his friends end up discovering all the needed information does sort of fit with the earlier books intended for a younger audience than the later ones. With it being easier to handwave away certain aspects in exchange for making it more exciting. Even if it ends up creating problems later on in the implications.
The Mirror of Erised is kind of the only trap that ended up being successful. Given that it was left out while the stone was supposed to be protected isn't really a great look on Dumbledore either. Speaking of, I suppose that means that Hermione could easily end up finding that mirror, grabbing the stone, figuring out how it does what it does, and promptly make a streamlined version of it. Possibly with sending a letter to the Flamel's for their notes on what they were trying to make with it. And if they would take a look at her own attempt at it.
There's also the bit where apparently a Cerberus' weaknesses aren't well enough known that Voldemort didn't know. So not a 'anyone could pass it'. Apparently. I'd imagine that it'd have come up somewhere. But then, the existence of a Basilisk is also mostly unknown by how the books have it. The whole 'Slytherin's Monster' one would think that even rumors would end up sticking a Basilisk in the role. Or, go with an even more 'powerful' fictional version. Like a 'King Basilisk'. Or a special breed 'Slytherin Basilisk'. The part where Harry and his friends end up discovering all the needed information does sort of fit with the earlier books intended for a younger audience than the later ones. With it being easier to handwave away certain aspects in exchange for making it more exciting. Even if it ends up creating problems later on in the implications.
The Mirror of Erised is kind of the only trap that ended up being successful. Given that it was left out while the stone was supposed to be protected isn't really a great look on Dumbledore either. Speaking of, I suppose that means that Hermione could easily end up finding that mirror, grabbing the stone, figuring out how it does what it does, and promptly make a streamlined version of it. Possibly with sending a letter to the Flamel's for their notes on what they were trying to make with it. And if they would take a look at her own attempt at it.
And you don't give the name for said fic?
- Location
- Logan, Queensland, australia
I have always thought that JKR started out writing a traditional western fairy tale/children's bedtime/Dickensian story - like little red riding hood, The once and future King, snow white, the little match girl, Charlie and the chocolate factory etc. - got caught completely flat-footed by its success, tried to expand a caricature based heavily trope dependent formula, that is not designed to be looked at too hard into a GRRM style epic - and failed miserably.Canon Dumbledore is very irritating.
snip
This has been my minor plot-related rant for the day. You may carry on with business now as I finish the next chapter, which I have no doubt will cause even more complaints as such is the way of things
Dumbledore is a Merlin Archetype as Harry is the Arthur/Oliver/Charlie archetype. If you look hard at the Merlin/Arthur story, it isn't pleasant at all for example, especially the manipulations required by Merlin to eventually have Arthur exist and become King of Camelot. Dumbles is small potatoes compared to that.
A lot of people say that JKR is a bad writer, but looking at how heavily the 'good' fanfics have to rework the world to make it work in the epic style, I give her the benefit of the doubt and think it may be more of a case of being trapped by the original format and not being able (or permitted, by publishers protecting the money pump) to break out of the original formula.
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There are a few fics that had the stone actually be a clever fake....
Which still doesn't prevent the everything else being suspect.
Even if it's a fake, that doesn't make it better. That still means there's a baited trap for the Dark Lord there. It makes it even worse, actually. Since now it's pointlessly endangering children. There's no reason for it to be at Hogwarts specifically, or even rumors that it is there. Unless there's some way to narrow down it being in a certain general area (like say narrowed down to the size of Hogwart's campus). But in that case, how did the Flamel's hide it away for as long as they did? Grindlewald might easily have sought it out himself, given the various benefits. Plus he would have had the Elder Wand on his side. So having it be able to be narrowed down at all doesn't seem too likely to be the case, just by how long it would have been in existence.
And actually now that I think about it, how did Voldemort know the prior location was in the vault? And why not set up a mirror trap there. Huh. Is there a fic that has something like that? Offhand I can vaguely recall a few that had the Goblins having more effective security. Or a time travel/SI bit where, knowing that it was going to happen that day, either mess with things to set off the alarms, or get the goblins to increase security. But I'm not sure about there being a 'Quirrel/Voldemort get caught in the vault because of staring into the mirror of Erised'.
- Location
- Phoenix, AZ, USA
Or it could be that Dumbledore plan to get his Catspaw back worked despite Harry's interference and damned luck. Remember Dumbledore did not intervene with Gellert Grindelwald until Gellert was losing and the result of that intervening was not Gellert turned over to the authorities but hiding Gellert in Gellert's own secret stronghold/prison. Anyone know how Dumbledore knew about and got control of Gellert's secret stronghold/prison?
If you look at the Harry Potter story from front to back as Dumbledore using people like Gellert, Tom and all as part of Dumbledore's master plan. Then you have a wonderful black comedy where Dumbledore keeps trying to set Harry up to die only for dumb luck to save Harry every time.
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- She/They
I mean, she's quite blatantly ripping off the boarding-school adventure stories of her own childhood, and tacking magic on. The first book, especially, has such strong Boy's Own/Ransome vibes that it's pretty painfully obvious. It gets darker and more traditionally in line with a hero's journey as it goes, but only so much can be done without stretching the premise beyond the breaking point - and the lack of critical thinking about her own worldbuilding is the thing that lots of fanfiction has, in one respect or another, been trying to resolve and reconcile in the years since.
Or he realized how much Voldemort fucked up by using this ritual, because that was the exact reason that made it possible for Harry to survive, and is happy that there is now a way out for him. Which would indicate that he is actually pretty quick on the uptake and cares for Harry's survival, if you aren't inclined to read all the books with the worst possible interpretation of him in mind. And he ordered Snape to kill him long in advance of his own death, which is part of his plan to deny Voldemort the Hallow he controlled and end the bloody reign of the death stick.
It worked perfectly though. Quirrel was alone with the mirror, with no way to get to the stone because he didn't fulfill the requirements needed to get it. If Harry wouldn't have joined him, that would have been it. Voldemort ( or any other potential thief ) was stopped by sheer ingenuity and not raw power or lethality, which is pretty awe inspiring.
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The Prophecy is kind of the crux of EVERYTHING. It set everything in motion, as that led to the fateful night, and it also likely informed everything that happened since, considering no matter what, Harry was going to be a target because of the nature of the prophesy.
- Location
- Wisconsin
I always favored the viewpoint that Dumbledore was trying to get Harry killed to resolve the Prophecy. That somehow the Prophecy would keep reworking events until one of the two offed the other, clearing the path for anyone else to finish things off. Dumbledore just figured a 50+ year old experienced dark lord should be able to kill a mostly untrained kid. Instead, after 1981 Dumbledore is left with a living Harry, and a disembodied but living Tom too.
But it really raises questions of why build the whole panel of death traps. Yeah, those weren't Dumbledore's traps, but he's in charge of the circus...
- Location
- On a speck of dust, floating through the void.
If he's quick on the uptake, you would think he would not send children back to the dorms when the last known location of the troll is in the dungeon and as he very well know, two of the dorms are in the dungeon
Because the mirror isn't perfect. If you manage to get anyone else with you who doesn't desire the stone to use it, it can be retrieved. Snape's potion was the biggest hindrance to it, the smallest bottle and only enough in it to get one person through - here Voldemort was too good of a wizard to rely on it and made his way through without it sadly. The rest is probably mostly delay so that Dumbledore can respond to anyone attempting the heist. And honestly, the most deadly thing there is Fluffy, wo didn't eat our heroes after having the chance but is a pretty good guardian. Trolls are only XXXX-class beasts, which means a single skilled wizard should be able to handle them.
They should be fine with the prefects even if they encounter the troll. They aren't that dangerous. And the dungeons are pretty big, so the chance to encounter the troll is probably minimal. The entrance to them is right by the Great Hall, so they weren't meaningfully getting closer to them by going in the direction of their common room. And if this is actually a breach of castle security by a dark wizards you want the children out of the way in case shit starts going down.
His character largely makes sense when you consider his history and the context of his decisions. A few things to keep in mind:
- Dumbledore is terrified of his own power, because he had almost become a tyrant, and only his sister's death stopped him. He then got to watch what happened to his friend (and lover?) who didn't stop.
- Dumbledore does not live in an indifferent universe. He lives in a universe in which a selfless sacrifice under the right circumstances can create inviolable protection that stops even the unstoppable, where drinking unicorn blood creates an indelible curse, where prophecies are given and fulfilled leading to highly improbable sequences of events such as the one that had given Harry the sacrificial protection in the first place, and where there is evidence of souls and of an afterlife that is degraded for those who damage their souls sufficiently.
- Sacrificial protection, sustained as long as Harry lives under the same roof as his aunt with her freely given consent or until Harry turns 17 (adulthood in the wizarding world), is the closest thing to inviolable protection that can exist in the wizarding world, at least that we know of. Not even Fidelius can be more secure. Remember that even after Dumbledore died, and even after Vodemort used Harry's blood in his restoration, Voldemort still did not dare attack 4 Privet Drive and only attacked when Harry left 4 Privet Drive without intending to return. The only successful attack on 4 Privet Drive was by Dementors sent by Umbridge, and she wasn't acting on Voldemort's behalf.
Dumbledore does not slay the Death Eaters at the Ministry, and in general he is merciful towards his foes with the exception of Voldemort. This is because against all others, he is so overwhelmingly powerful that he can incapacitate them without harming them. This means that any harm he causes would be by definition gratuitous and stain his soul. (Contrary to popular fanon, the rest of the Order fights to kill all the time.) Similarly, he is eager to grant second chances, because he is aware of his own flaws and feels that if he had been given a second chance despite his monstrous intentions, others deserve one too.
His fear of his own power makes him biased towards inaction, and is also why he never sought the position of Minister of Magic even though it was his for the taking. Instead, he limits himself to moderating deliberative bodies (Chief Warlock, Supreme Mugwump) and educating (Headmaster of Hogwarts).
In an universe with souls and an afterlife, dying later but with one's soul damaged may well be worse than dying sooner, and so he would rather give Draco a chance for redemption, even if it risks innocent lives. This view is monstrous in an indifferent universe but, again, Potterverse is not an indifferent universe, and Dumbledore has experienced this first hand many times over.
Lastly, let's not forget that when Dumbledore learned that Harry was a horcrux for Voldemort, he was faced with an impossible problem: the only way to slay Voldemort was to kill Harry. If he can be blamed for something, it's prioritising Harry's life too highly, risking (and, ultimately, sacrificing) too many good people---including himself---to give Harry a chance of surviving. Although he could not have planned out every step of the exact sequence of events that had ultimately led to Voldemort's ultimate demise and Harry's survival in DH, he had done everything he could to make it possible, and then trusted others, as well as the universe---again, not an indifferent one---to do the rest.
The early traps (starting with the cerebrus) were meant to keep students out but were never meant to stop a skilled adult wizard or witch on the level of a Hogwarts professor, to say nothing of Voldemort.
The ultimate obstacle was the Mirror of Erised, and it was a very effective one: it would only give the stone to someone who simultaneously knew enough about the stone to be able to desire to get it and didn't want it to be used by anyone. So, Dumbledore could remove it, but neither Voldemort nor any of his agents could. In fact, very few people could.
For example, if it were Ron in there, he'd think about his hand-me-down robes and second-hand wand and the money the Stone could bring, and get locked out. Hermione would think about all the good she could do with all that gold, and how her grandma (and many others) could use a dose of Elixir of Life, and also get locked out. Only Harry was simultaneously financially secure, without any people in his life close to death from old age or disease, and focused on immediate wants and needs rather than the big picture, so he could remove the stone---unfortunately.
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