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Hermione learns a thing

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Jacen1 said:
The problem with trying to understand the world we live in by looking at Quantum Physics is that Quantum Physics only deals with things on a scale that we cannot exist at, and that ignore the subset of physics that we do interact with in our normal lives.

We do not exist in the near perfect vacuum of the Quantum Universe. We also do not largely exist in the high energy state described by Relativity. We exist, at least 99% of the time, in the subset of reality that is described by Newtonian Physics. We do not experience such speeds as to warrant Einstein's corrections, unless we are astronauts traveling beyond our atmosphere. We are affected only indirectly by Quantum phenonium, and that mostly in the use of transistors. We pretend to understand the larger and smaller Universe our subset of reality exists in, but all we can only use math to describe what our instruments tell us, for we only truly perceive the Universe as Newton described.

The forces that bind our molecules together makes us solid on the level that we can perceive. We are told that we are in fact mostly empty space, but in fact we are made up of the mass that is within that space, and that mass can be measured with a simple scale and acts like it is largely solid from our perspective. The forces that act upon us in ways we can detect are known and measurable, and by those measurements are also predictable based on what effects they impart.

Science is also known as Natural Philosophy, but some philosophies it has spawned have little if anything to do with the natural world that we live in, only the portions that we cannot directly interact with. While several interesting discoveries and developments have come about from delving into those realms, it is important to remember that we exist in the portion of reality where Newton's equations are as accurate as most tools used for measuring the data used to fill those equations in.

Now, all that aside, any predictions for how many of Jerry's co-workers will need medical or psychological assistance in the near future? After all, unlike odd philosophies about the underpinning of existence, what is happening in Oxford in the story is actually relevant to the story, would you not agree?
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I think that's wrong in the way people usually understand the terms. If you use "quantum physics" to mean the human practices and understanding, yeah, I believe we cannot actually apply those at human scales. (Relativity we can, of course, it just is so close to Newtonian results it's usually not worth worrying about.) But if you use quantum physics to refer to the phenomena that are described by the human understanding, those don't cease to apply. They just get outside our current ability to understand and describe. (Of course AFAIK there's still a problem that we can't reconcile quantum and relativistic descriptions?)

Also, the quantum stuff is intensely relevant to our basic makeup on scales that modern humans do interact with fairly frequently. People are made of fancy chemistry, and the components there are at the scale where stuff gets very overtly quantum.
 
Jacen1 said:
Science is also known as Natural Philosophy, but some philosophies it has spawned have little if anything to do with the natural world that we live in, only the portions that we cannot directly interact with. While several interesting discoveries and developments have come about from delving into those realms, it is important to remember that we exist in the portion of reality where Newton's equations are as accurate as most tools used for measuring the data used to fill those equations in.
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Things start getting interesting when you consider optics (which Newton also delved into), magnetism and electricity. Optics edges into quantum effects, and the reason gold is yellow rather than silvery is (from memory) a quantum effect. Magnetism and electricity are both sub-atomic effects, as you need to go beyond atoms-as-indivisible to understand them. Static electricity and lightning - Newtonian mechanics don't get you far with those.

I'm ignoring things like aerodynamics here...

A good number tend to regard electricity as 'magical', then you have radio-activity, which is definitely in the invisible dark magic category for a good number...

Mechanics, OK, wind, water, steam pressure, all observable, OK. Internal combustion... maybe. Other stuff, it's an act-of-faith as to it being 'natural'.
 
mp3.1415player said:
she admitted to herself that they might well have different design goals and thinking of their work as wrong wasn't entirely fair. It was clearly the result of considerable knowledge she didn't herself have, so whoever it was had been doing this for quite a while.
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That is amazingly insightful. And good on not trashing mages to trash mages.

Prediction for the near future. The college is going to have an elective just to see if people can be taught telekinesis and other psionic skills. And if it works for even a quarter of the students, Hermione and family are going to be hired as teachers for a full course. As well as researchers for this new field of science.
 
mp3.1415player said:
OK, here's one for you...

The smallest size anything can be is the Planck length, approximately 1.616 x 10-35​ meters.

The size of a hydrogen atom is about 1.06 x 10-10​ meters.

The Planck length is therefore about 1025​ times smaller than the diameter of a hydrogen atom.

On the other hand, the sun is approximately 1.4 x 109​ meters in diameter, which means it is roughly 1019​ times larger than a hydrogen atom.

There is more than a millionfold difference between the size of the sun and the size of a hydrogen atom than there is between the size of a hydrogen atom and the smallest feature size physics knows about. And almost all of that is just empty space, diffusely filled with the most infinitesimal fragments of anything, all of which ultimately resolves into ephemeral energy flickering in and out of existence in a way that's essentially random.

When you look deep enough, we and everything that exists, only exist on average.

:D

Or something like that. It gets fuzzy all the way down there...
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…welcome to exciting world of quantum foam.
 
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Dur'id the Druid said:
good on not trashing mages to trash mages.
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I imagine that the trashing of the Wizarding community has more to do with the fact that they clearly did not incorporate the scientific method into their academia in the same way that the non-magical academic/scientific community incorporated the empiricisim and reproducability, which naturally leads to some batshit insane psuedo-science. That's the Watsonian explanation, of course, but the Doylist explanation is because Jo Rowling was bad at math and didn't care to understand scientific methodology and it shows.
 
tenchifew said:
…welcome to exciting world of quantum foam.
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Things get more interesting when you look at theories that try describing things at that scale using the likes of perturbations, persistent resonant defects in space-time, self-sustaining patterns, and orbifolds. Things get even more interesting when those patterns start making use of higher dimensional axis even in and possibly more so in cases of compactified dimensions.
Do note that this doesn't just include String theories.
My personal favorite is one that claims that there is an infinite number of dimensions which due to instability collapses into localized infinite webs made of a finite number of dimensions such as 11D multiverses.
 
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Criminalpidgeon said:
.....hoooly shiiiiit this just got deep as fu~uck! Again how did a joke turn into all this!?
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Because we went to far in attempting to maintain enough attention to the thread to convince MP3 to continue their story, and no one paid attention to how far they were going with the joke. So now we have MP3 distracted from writing by participating in the joke and deliberately making things even more convoluted with each "date point" they throw out there to see where we, the readers/commenters go with it. Good news, some of our spaghetti at the wall speculation will likely make it into the story. Bad news, with each new chortle we drag from MP3, it's that much longer before we get the next update while they "play" with us.
 
Prof.MoreRight said:
Things get more interesting when you look at theories that try describing things at that scale using the likes of perturbations, persistent resonant defects in space-time, self-sustaining patterns, and orbifolds. Things get even more interesting when those patterns start making use of higher dimensional axis even in and possibly more so in cases of compactified dimensions.
Do note that this doesn't just include String theories.
My personal favorite is one that claims that there is an infinite number of dimensions which due to instability collapses into localized infinite webs made of a finite number of dimensions such as 11.
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Once upon a time I actually was deep enough in the subject to read and understand most of the books on the topic and some chosen papers. Lately I wanted to reread something of it vaguely related to my work… and was absolutely stumped.
Now I am trying to decide if investing enough time to relearn it is actually worth my time.
Reading Mangoni's "Fundamentals of Physics" a book which starts explaining physics with theoretical physics approach, first chapter being wave function and second schrödinger equation was something I wanted to read and would be a great stepping stone…
 
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One thing that will be a challenge to get across in the next chapter is just how awesome and exciting this will be for scientists.

Picture Jerry as a kid who has gotten underwear and hand-me-downs for Christmas every year.
The phone call he got is like seeing a rectangular gift with his name on it under the tree. Interest piqued, but not actually hopeful yet.
Then Michael grabbing the pen is peeling back that wrapper to see LEGO on the box.

What is coming next is the realization that it isn't just a box of Lego for a present. It is a LIFETIME SUPPLY of it. And Hermione has already put together a life size Yoda out of the green bricks for him.
 
mp3.1415player said:
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They're here as well. Can't avoid them. Oh well
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Don't worry! It's only atto* lizards. Surely if they're that small they can't cause any problems? :)

* atto is likely not small enough, but I can't be bothered to look for the right prefix :)
 
Chances for Purebloods to push for Hermione or her parents to be sent to Azkaban?

We already know that people get sent to Azkaban for breaking the statute of secrecy, and that Hagrid was sent to Azkaban because Fudge is easily influenced by Lucius Malfoy.
 
WCSII said:
Because we went to far in attempting to maintain enough attention to the thread to convince MP3 to continue their story, and no one paid attention to how far they were going with the joke. So now we have MP3 distracted from writing by participating in the joke and deliberately making things even more convoluted with each "date point" they throw out there to see where we, the readers/commenters go with it. Good news, some of our spaghetti at the wall speculation will likely make it into the story. Bad news, with each new chortle we drag from MP3, it's that much longer before we get the next update while they "play" with us.
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In other words, we should Stop Discussing Quantum Physics and Focus on the Story so our esteemed author can get back to writing context appropriate wordz...

Light said:
Chances for Purebloods to push for Hermione or her parents to be sent to Azkaban?

We already know that people get sent to Azkaban for breaking the statute of secrecy, and that Hagrid was sent to Azkaban because Fudge is easily influenced by Lucius Malfoy.
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Wizards are sent to Azkaban. Muggles are not. Having a pair of prominent Muggle Healers vanish like that would endanger the statute more then it would protect it.

Besides, does the Ministry have jurisdiction over Muggles, and if not what may the consequences of violating that jurisdiction be? For all we know, doing this sort of thing may break the agreements that keep the Muggle government from just announcing the magical world's existence
 
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Light said:
Chances for Purebloods to push for Hermione or her parents to be sent to Azkaban?

We already know that people get sent to Azkaban for breaking the statute of secrecy, and that Hagrid was sent to Azkaban because Fudge is easily influenced by Lucius Malfoy.
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Seems like a question we have no footing to sensibly analyze until we have some clue what Hermione's intersection with the Wizarding world is going to be.

I mean, one way this story would go is nobody tells them. And they don't find out that Hermione broke their entire world for several more years, because why would they pay attention to Muggle parapsychology considering they don't pay attention to Muggle anything else?
 
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Gone, Sir.
  • Apocrypha
    • Light said:
    Chances for Purebloods to push for Hermione or her parents to be sent to Azkaban?

    We already know that people get sent to Azkaban for breaking the statute of secrecy, and that Hagrid was sent to Azkaban because Fudge is easily influenced by Lucius Malfoy.
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    Entirely non canon, but I couldn't resist because I'm in a funny mood tonight... :D​

    "We have a minor... problem... Minister."

    "What is it now, Bones?"

    "It's about the Grangers."

    "Those magic-stealing Muggle fools? They're in Azkaban where they belong. We should have given them the Veil."

    "Well..."

    "Come on, spit it out, woman! What happened? Their weak Muggle constitution wasn't enough to keep them alive already? Excellent, that solves that pr..."

    "Azkaban is gone."

    "..."

    "..."

    "Gone?"

    "Yes. Gone."

    "What do you mean, 'gone?'"

    "I mean gone, Minister. Disappeared. Vanished. No longer in existence. Utterly erased from the fabric of reality like a snowflake in a..."

    "Enough! I know what gone means!"

    "Then why did you...?"

    "What I fail to understand is the application of the word in conjunction with Azkaban."

    "All right, let me see if I can explain more clearly, sir. Hmm. Ah, yes. Azkaban is gone."

    "..."

    "What do you mean, g...?"

    "I MEAN AZKABAN IS GONE, MINISTER! THERE'S A DIRTY GREAT HOLE IN THE SEABED WHERE IT WAS, BUT THE ENTIRE ISLAND, BUILDINGS AND ALL, IS COMPLETELY MISSING! AZKABAN IS GONE!!"

    "Oh."

    "Yes. Oh."

    "What about the Dementors?"

    "Gone, Minister."

    "The Death Eaters?"

    "Gone, Minister."

    "That little boat?"

    "Also gone, Minister."

    "What about all the Aurors on site?"

    "Ah. There we have good news. They're all safely down in the cells. Along with all the short term prisoners from Azkaban. There is, however, a problem."

    "A problem?"

    "Yes. We can't get them out. There's some sort of shield spell we can't remove surrounding the entire cell block. We can get food and water in through a small hole, but nothing we tried can break the shield. No one has any idea how to get rid of it."

    "Um... I see. And the Grangers?"

    "We determined they went home, fed the neighbor's cat, then went on holiday to France. We can't find their house."

    "Oh."

    "..."

    "What's that in your hand, Bones?"

    "A note."

    "A note? From whom?"

    "The Grangers. It was taped to my door this morning."

    "What does it say?"

    "'Next time we'll be quite miffed and will deal with the problem permanently. Love and kisses, The Granger Family.' Minister."

    "..."

    "I believe I have an appointment that I'm missing. I'll leave this minor problem in your capable hands, Director Bones. Let me know when it's been dealt with."

    "Of course, Minister."

    "You unutterable pillock."
     
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  • Apocrypha
    • Jacen1 said:
    Wizards are sent to Azkaban. Muggles are not. Having a pair of prominent Muggle Healers vanish like that would endanger the statute more then it would protect it.

    Besides, does the Ministry have jurisdiction over Muggles, and if not what may the consequences of violating that jurisdiction be? For all we know, doing this sort of thing may break the agreements that keep the Muggle government from just announcing the magical world's existence
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    They could just claim that Hermione's parents are obviously not muggles, obviously trying to pull a trick to get away with breaking the statute of secrecy.

    Also, it's not like Wizardkind quite cares about muggle politics, they've canonically walked all over major muggle politicians without a care.

    Finally, Fudge goes against that on multiple levels, defaming Harry when Voldemort is back and letting Harry go for accidentally breaking the Statute of Secrecy in the third book.

    mp3.1415player said:
    Entirely non canon, but I couldn't resist because I'm in a funny mood tonight... :D
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    The author noticed me!

    Yeah...Azkaban should be destroyed for so many reasons.
     
    That does make me wonder if Dementors are entirely constructs. Hermione sees them, sees a horribly twisted HOP, or something like it, and decides to fix it. And, I dunno, eliminates the Despair aura/chill, the 'Dementor's kiss' working.

    "Who stuck this refrigerator onto a mobile platform? That's just inefficient. Did they want the refrigerator to guard what it was keeping cold? It's much more energy efficient to separate the two. And you can manage it without all these ethical violations that don't seem to even have a point, other than to make the whole thing stable."
     
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