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Hell is other angels

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I like this family. I think I'm starting to lean towards Team Aiko.

But hey, Taziel can't be that evil if Inari didn't raise any objections to her, aside from letting Aiko know. Which is quite reasonable. Then again, higher end god... he might have orange and blue morality. Maybe he could ask Inari if Taziels going to fuck you over? I mean, trust but verify right?
Oh hey, play his cards right, he might be able to swing working for Inari directly. That sounds like a much better (and probably safer) option then working for being jerked around by the PTB.
 
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Daimonin said:
Maybe he could ask Inari if Taziels going to fuck you over?
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I had an idea for what he could ask for along these lines but went a slightly different direction. Namely, asking him to seal away, or destroy, the coin in the event of his death. That lets him keep his promise to take her up again while still ensuring that she doesn't get a chance to corrupt someone else later.
 
Crazael said:
I had an idea for what he could ask for along these lines but went a slightly different direction. Namely, asking him to seal away, or destroy, the coin in the event of his death. That lets him keep his promise to take her up again while still ensuring that she doesn't get a chance to corrupt someone else later.
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That would be a TERRIBLE idea. Taz can read his mind, so she'd know he asked that if he picks her back up. I don't know about you, but if I knew someone was going to fuck me over that hard, I would not be happy. At all. And Taz is more than capable of making his life a living hell.
 
And that's disregarding the fact that if she is indeed as evil as some here seem to be assuming, destroying the coin would be the worst thing to do, because it would only free her to act however she may.
 
mmm... you don't ask Inari to seal Taz away when Daiel dies... you ask him to look after her. Or use his best judgement. That way, if Taz isn't that bad, she has an out. And if she is, well.
 
Vox De Harlequin said:
And that's disregarding the fact that if she is indeed as evil as some here seem to be assuming, destroying the coin would be the worst thing to do, because it would only free her to act however she may.
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This has been discussed to death. The Fallen are not in the coins, merely restricted from acting independently. The coins are the only conduit for their influence they can use without suffering angelic retribution. A mortal must willingly act as their agent. In extreme cases, however, Fallen have been known to pay the consequences and act independently (i.e. Harry's suicide after Lashiel whispered into his ear).

Second, the coins cannot be destroyed. It's the same way you cannot extinguish the sun with a bucket of water. Sure, if get a bucket the size of the solar system you could do it, but that feat is so far beyond your capacity that it does not bare considering. Even if you gained enough power to destroy the coins, you probably wouldn't be able to use it for that purpose because in the Dresden Files all power begets obligation.
 
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I was about to tell you that this story wasn't as interesting (for me) as some ofmthe others are... Then you posted that last update or two and I am cheerfulky awaiting the rest. :)
 
Interregnum said:
This has been discussed to death. The Fallen are not in the coins, merely restricted from acting independently. The coins are the only conduit for their influence they can use without suffering angelic retribution. A mortal must willingly act as their agent. In extreme cases, however, Fallen have been known to pay the consequences and act independently (i.e. Harry's suicide after Lashiel whispered into his ear).
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Ah, no. While that was a Fallen, it was not one of the Fallen bound by the coins. There's a lot more than thirty Fallen Angels in total, and IIRC it's the ones who aren't in the coins that are more tightly bound. Those like Lasciel and Anduriel can at least do anything they please once they have a host; those who are 'free' can only engage in the tit-for-tat that lets Uriel and company balance the scales.
 
Really? No boon to ensure he's harder to kill? No request for a shield or armor that can stand up to supernatural force? No desire for a weapon that can cut into even the hardest demon hide? Sigh.

When a minor god says you have a wish, get something useful! You can even phrase it in a way like, "Well, I wouldn't mind a sword that could help me protect your daughter from things like that, or even worse, in the future."

You're not very munchkin here, Hiver! :p
 
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Crazael said:
I had an idea for what he could ask for along these lines but went a slightly different direction. Namely, asking him to seal away, or destroy, the coin in the event of his death. That lets him keep his promise to take her up again while still ensuring that she doesn't get a chance to corrupt someone else later.
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your idea is like saying, the breaks of my car stopped working while going down the freeway but I was able to pull over safely, now I'm going to update my life insurance and get back in the car to drive it again without having it fixed. But if I die of a heart attack while walking down the street don't let anyone else use my car because it's dangerous.

if he takes up the coin again he is acknowledging that she is not out to corrupt him. which means that the mechanic looked it over said there was no problem and it is now safe to drive.
 
Tiroth said:
Ah, no. While that was a Fallen, it was not one of the Fallen bound by the coins. There's a lot more than thirty Fallen Angels in total, and IIRC it's the ones who aren't in the coins that are more tightly bound. Those like Lasciel and Anduriel can at least do anything they please once they have a host; those who are 'free' can only engage in the tit-for-tat that lets Uriel and company balance the scales.
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I addressed this exact point earlier in this thread:
Interregnum said:
Q: Are we ever going to find out which of the Fallen said those seven words to Harry?

A: You've probably gotten all the answers you're gonna get as far as that goes, as far as which Fallen said that. I mean, I'm not saying that Lasciel lied about everything but she could've. Or it could have been one of the others. But Lasciel was the one with the axe to grind.
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Skokie Interview | Galleywampus


Technically it could have been someone other than Lasciel, but Jim effectively confirmed that all of the Fallen can act independent of their coin if they so choose.
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Word of Jim is that it could be any of the Fallen, but Lashiel was both capable and had the motivation to do so. Keep in mind that the Fallen explicitly reference the thirty fallen angels who, together with their mortal hosts, constitute the Order of the Blackened Denarius. Neither the characters nor author have once refereed to all the other fallen angels that theoretically exist as "the Fallen." For those fallen angels who are not linked to a coin, fallen is an adjective rather than a noun.

The Fallen being 'trapped' inside their coin is fanon. They are limited to the coin to preserve the free will of mortals. The act of willingly keeping the coin on one's person is to willingly put one's self under the influence of a Fallen. Is it fair that some of the Fallen coherence their hosts into making that choice through torture and deception? No, but life is not fair. Sometimes there are no good choices, but that does not mean you do not have a choice. That is why Uriel only acts when the Fallen reach beyond their mortal conduit to influence mortals they would not otherwise been able to reach. He acts to preserve free will, so mortals may choose to do the right thing of their own accord.
 
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Can the Fallen go full Cartesian Demon?

Hiver said:
Do you have any idea how crazy that is? Unless the god thinks you will cause more chaos than his favored priest in the future, there is a great chance this will not turn out like you want.
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Was there any doubt Janus would eventually get his due?

Is Janus satisfied yet? Nothing too overt has happened yet, but if he has the same senses as the balance demons to know things are not going as planned, just watching fate tangle might be enough.
 
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    • I inspected the locked box in my hand before turning the key and opening it, looking down at the blackened silver coin sitting in the middle of it.

    The overlapping triangle symbol in the middle was smooth and shiny.

    Taziel. She was in there, waiting for me to pick it back up. A fallen angel. One of the most corrupting things in all existence that I know of.

    But ... she trusted me to pick her back up.

    Was I really that far along already? So deep under her power that even without her shadow in my head, I could be counted on to pick her back up?

    Or was it simply that I wanted what she could give me?

    When that Mo'o attacked, I asked her for help. Then I tried to summon the coin. Hellfire. None of it worked and I was left with...

    What was I really left with? Myself. My memories ... the memories of the Hell Walker. But I was still just human.

    The question was simple really.

    Would I pick her up again? Even as I looked at the coin sitting there, I didn't know. Were I the one that wanted to pick it up or...

    I drummed my fingers on my leg as I looked at it.

    Aiko was off taking a walk in the forest, feeding on the natural energies or something or the other. She seemed a bit surprised about the entire fallen angel thing, but it didn't seem to bother her too much. There was still the dinner with her parents later.

    One a thousand year old fox spirit and the other one the god of rice. That would be... fun. And with fun I mean terrifying. One was able to rip my soul out of my nostrils with a idle thought and the other was a god.

    Then again, scary really had it's goalposts shifted since I appeared on this world.

    ...Nope, dinner with a god and what might as well be a goddess after somehow getting involved with their daughter was still scary as hell.

    But right now, none of that mattered.

    What mattered was the coin sitting on the velvet in this little box.

    Taziel.

    If I picked it up again... it would be of my own free will. No accident. Permanently. I would be inviting her back in to poke around in my head, twisting my soul. Joining Hells Angels... not just one of the main groups.

    If she told the truth, she were against Anduriel and the rest of the Denarians.

    If she told the truth.

    If.

    If.

    If.

    That was the real word in the entire thing, wasn't it. Could I trust Taziel? I didn't know. There was no way for me TO know. I didn't trust my own mind in the matter.

    I thought the fact that she trusted me to pick her up again was a good sign in her favor. The fact that she was part of the forces of hell was a bad one against her.

    A major one. Hell Walker knew what happened when you tried to control demons and the forces of hell. I had... He had seen it again and again. And each time people died. Thousands of people.

    Taking a deep breath, I closed the box again and locked it. I had some time left.

    I needed a walk and clear my head. Shaking my head, I walked over and put the coin box in the wall safe before I pulled on a t-shirt and headed out of the hotel into the warm sun. What the fuck was I going to do?

    One check on the wall map and I were on my way towards one of the outer areas of the place, paths deep into the surrounding forest and towards one of the villages nearby.

    I started jogging in that direction.

    Taziel. Could she be trusted? Yes. Were she telling the truth? Most likely.

    Did she want to corrupt my soul and turn me into a monster? Most likely if she had not already. I was different from when I picked her up.

    Then again, maybe that was close to a year of demon hunting and having a few thousand years of Doom Slayer shoved into my skull. Actually, that was most likely was my doing, not hers.

    Damn it.

    Maybe I should have told Inari that he could take the coin and hide it where no one will ever be able to find it. Maybe I still could, he did say he owed me a favor.

    Leave her locked away in black nothingness for...

    Forever was a really long time. Even if she was kill the orphan, eat the kittens evil ... she wouldn't deserve that. No-one would. I didn't know if I could really trust Inari with it either.

    What the hell am I supposed to do here?

    A sharp pain slammed into my back at my right shoulder and I stumbled, looking down at it in surprise.

    A crossbow bolt was poking out of it.



    AN// Big thanks to Winged_One for betaing this section.
     
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    • ...why does everyone seem to think that it's the fucking Slayer? Why would they even want to assassinate him?
     
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