Halkegenia Online Thread 22 - Kill Sheffield Vol. 2

Also, like I said, I'm trying to think of interesting ways to have this scenario play out beyond just giving the crown back. (Although this is the most direct thing that could be done, I'm keeping it as my go to backup plan for right now, or more my 49% plan versus the 51% plan I'm outlining here.)

One possibility, as you said, is that this was an unprovoked attack on Tristanian Soil. Octavia may not understand that Asuna isn't Titania, but her reconnaissance should have at least told her this was no longer ALfheim. So she was knowingly attacking within the borders of another sovereign territory. Therefore, Octavia has no excuse when she and her forces are defeated and taken prisoner.

In fact, the objective in any punishment here should NOT be to humiliate Octavia, it should be to make her ashamed of her actions. And the best way to do that may be to treat her like the Queen she believes she is and make her face her mistakes AS a proud Queen. Mix that with a little time to sulk in an (Extremely Nice) fishbowl and her own pride should do a lot of the work of punishing her.

So for instance :

- No, Octavia, you may not have your crown back. Not immediately anyways. This is really no different from stripping a captured ruler of her weapons and armor.

- No, Octavia, you attacked this land unprovoked and could have gotten people killed. You also got many of your own subjects killed to sate your pride. You are most definitely in the wrong.

- You will be treated like a Queen and be permitted to be released with your weapons and armor returned, but only after we have examined your intentions at length.

- No, Octavia, 'Titania' may forgive you, but as a Queen invading these lands you must speak with Queen Henrietta to negotiate your release and right your wrongs.

Bonus if Henrietta is willing to go along with this, Treat Octavia like a Queen and negotiate deals so that the people of Tristain can 'fish' within the boundaries of her 'Queendom' in exchange for useful offerings in 'Trade' to her and her sapient subjects.

Also, some sort of defense pact to protect their 'border' if the Reconquista attempt to use the coast as a landing zone. Thus Octavia becomes a complication but not a game changer in the war.

Basically, all of these conditions suck, but as long as they aren't overly exploitative, Octavia can't really refuse, because more than anything she wants to be regarded as a Queen on her own merits, and that's exactly what is being expected of her by her captors. Her help at Freelia could then become an offer to purchase her early release by showing good faith this once (on the order of a month or so ahead of schedule). And bam, done.

I do like the thought of Octavia spending some time with Asuna and coming to think of her as the 'new Titania' (expect some explanation about Oberon casting a spell on her causing memory problems), as a wholly different person than her game story memories. That, and meeting Henrietta.
 
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On the other hand Octavia is a reigning Queen.

Which means she pretty much gets an automatic pass for pretty much any crime she personally commits. Short of actual murder under the laws of the time.

First, she's a self proclaimed and unrecognised queen. Which means that there are no customs governing how she's treated.

Second, if she is considered a queen, this attack is an act of war. And the Geneva Convention is the product of a much later era than Halkegenia is equivalent to. Being held hostage and ransomed for massive concessions is well within the acceptable behaviour in the 17th century.
 
How can Octavia be a queen when she has no country? Also, if she is to be recognized as a foreign queen, then any of her followers that came upon Tristain's shores are illegal immigrants poaching from Tristain's land for any animal they capture or eat.

Her "abyss" has no borders and no recognation.

It's worth noting that the Nyriads currently seem to be getting outright attacked. Remember that the ones in the lake were fleeing from "hunters".

If it comes down to claims of them being illegal than claims that Tristain attacked them first are pretty well backed up.

In any case TH said above that the hostility of Halk waters means that in HaLO the seas are quite available for her to claim as her Domain. Given that she and the other aquatic border guards can back up any claims of authority through sheer power, it does work out in the end.

Honestly, I don't remember if I asked that - I remember pointing out that it basically made all fishing poaching if she claimed all of the sea.

Honestly, though, I can see Octavia being recognized after she has mapped out her territory. You can't have ambiguous territory like that, and right now Octavia has to at least stick to waters around Tristain and further out until other countries recognize her as a soverign. Others aren't as nice as Henrietta and would claim it an act of war - whether they are useless or not.

Also, all citizens of "The Abyss" would have to be removed from Tristain just like how the Fae almost were in the beginning. They are invading their lands after all.

If Octavia gets back into her full body then it won't matter how not nice other country's rulers are. They don't really have any way to stop her claiming the waters and even less actual reason to do so.
 
I do like the thought of Octavia spending some time with Asuna and coming to think of her as the 'new Titania' (expect some explanation about Oberon casting a spell on her causing memory problems), as a wholly different person than her game story memories. That, and meeting Henrietta.

Can we not traumatize Asuna more by having people continually considering her to be Titania?
 
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She is clearly dealing with it, it's being covered pretty clearly by the story. Remember that awesome exchange with the Djinn a while back?

Yea but she was correcting them the whole time, and they are barely sapient.

For something fully sapient like Octavia to just refuse to consider her anything other then Titania would be a pretty big blow. :(
 
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Yea but she was correcting them the whole time, and they are barely sentient.

For something fully sentient like Octavia to just refuse to consider her anything other then Titania would be a pretty big blow. :(

She asked once, the Djinn obliged, and now Solomon calls her Asuna, which means potentially thousands do at this point.

Octavia wouldn't be anymore difficult depending on the explanation for Titania's 'change.'
 
Um, given how okay she seems with the Pixies? It seems unlikely that she would be traumatized by Octavia.

Remember, in the prior scene she freaked out because she was recognized..
 
It's worth noting that the Nyriads currently seem to be getting outright attacked. Remember that the ones in the lake were fleeing from "hunters".

If it comes down to claims of them being illegal than claims that Tristain attacked them first are pretty well backed up.

That's true.

The Fae and Tristianians have also been hunting various mobs continually since the transition. Which could also be construed as an attack on her people.
 
Can we turn Octavia into Aquaman from batman the brave and the bold? Essentially a boisterous and proud blue haired Asuna running around punching people.

The chance of increasing influx of food via Nyraid fish farm trades sounds like a huge boon for Tristainia. How many additional man power could they dedicate to industry and war?
 
The Nyriads aren't part of any treaty or recognized country. They have no rights whatsoever. So, it doesn't matter until they are protected under a law whether they are hunted or not. If the hunters don't own the land or were never given permission by the land owner that's different - then the hunters are illegally poaching. As far as the treaty is concerned, Nyriads are still the equivalent of a Dagger Dog.

Second, the sea around them might be dangerous, but they would still make a claim to it if someone else was coming to claim it. Now with Henrietta's back up, a treaty or Octavia claiming the land could be backed up on the grounds they have no soverignty over it. Something like that would need another's permission.

And, last, Border Bosses are badasses, but they aren't gods. Octavia cannot and will never be able to personally stand against a country's entire army. Stop treating them like Vaer treats Halk mages and elves.
 
And, last, Border Bosses are badasses, but they aren't gods. Octavia cannot and will never be able to personally stand against a country's entire army. Stop treating them like Vaer treats Halk mages and elves.

Except that since the first conception of them that's been exactly how strong they are.

The first concept of Octavia in this thread involved her singlehandedly defeating an elven fleet.
 
Well the other option is to give Octavia back her crown now and save her next appearance for the jotunhim arc. . .
 
Except that since the first conception of them that's been exactly how strong they are.

The first concept of Octavia in this thread involved her singlehandedly defeating an elven fleet.
Then she would be killed for the safety of Halkegenia since she's already shown she will outright attack for petty reasons. No foreign country or ruler in their right mind would give a seriously lethal unstoppable threat something that will turn them into a person of mass destruction with no way to actually control them.

Seriously, think about it. If Superman was that childish and had his powers stripped, would you just give them back with no way to control it?

Octavia went out of her way not to kill anyone this time but what about next time. What proof do you have there won't be a next time? Hell, if Octavia was Joseph, would you give the tiara back if all of the circumstances were the same?
 
More fun with Border Bosses! I had this hilarious idea yesterday when I read about Puppy!Kerberus. Do not take it seriously! Although I would be grateful if someone of Japanese origin would translate for me the name Mother Earth, that Cardinal (Bishop) used here as her alter ego ...

How to ditch your problem Bishop style ...

Bishop-chan was troubled. She understood the necessity of Alfheim's Guardians existence and Kerberus was needed to guard the Main Gate of Jotunheim against the Jotuns - really Prim was a prick, although because he was Sugou's personal project that was no surprise. Bishop-chan wondered why she included him when she created the Jotunheim in the first place.

'Probably because I was bored and it seemed as a good idea,' she thought. Now she was staring down on another 'good idea'. Cardinal could spawn fully grown Kerberus, but that would not be 'balanced'. So she created entire <<Dungeon>>, like her Fae referred to the funny if dangerous areas full of monsters, traps and treasures (Bishop always made sure books were included). This one she placed in Jotunheim near one of her last Shoots there. She named it <<Lost Temple of Lord Fenriss>>. It was an 'interesting' place all right! That the Jotuns Ice Giants quickly learned not to approach it spoke volumes about it.

Before the Transition there were only handful of Mobs like Kerberus. Bishop knew about two others beside the Kerberus - Orthos, the Hound of Iceland Caves and one-headed gigantic ice breathing helhound named Garm. But Cardinal has so many unused cool concepts! So she used one of them to ensure there will be always new Kerberus, Orthos or Gram available when the originals get themselves killed. Hence new category of Mobs called Hellhounds or Elemental hounds. These beasts were larger than the Ancient Swordwolfs (the largest aboveground canines so far) and able to use magic in the forms of Elemental Breath Attacks - Poisonous Acid for Earth, Lightningbolt for Wind, Firebreath for Fire naturally and Hailstorm for Water. Their abilities turn up after their birth randomly and in some cases they would not even have them, instead they will gain other bonuses, thanks to forever shifting and mutating region in their genetics that will give nightmares to geneticists with how it worked. (Bishop blamed her library colleagues - she was drunk when she created the Hellhounds). The rarest of the mutations was Kerberus - three-headed hound able to use three elements at once. Thanks to Cardinal's will, there always was only one of him and he would be reborn in the kennels under the Fenriss Temple.

(flashback)

Bishop with her entourage of dozen Worldtree Guardians appeared in a flash of green light from the Shoot near the Temple. She would rather spend her day in Library cataloguing Galian poetry books she bought but she get a Word about new Arch Guardian being born, so here she was.

The Temple was home of fanatical Cu Sidhe sect worshipping the Power of Wolfs. The zealots were not only worshipping the God of all Wolfs, but they were also rather competent breeders of Swordwolfs, Ancient Wolfs, Pitthounds and ... Hellhounds. They were also at least partially able to master their Beast Transformations by using the Shoots ambient magic to calm their beasts. In exchange they worshipped Cardinal in her Mother Earth alias along the God Fenriss, and not only guarded the Shoot (in the everlasting winter there are no Pixies in Jotunheim to do so), but also had to give her new Kerberus, whenever he will be reborn here.

Approaching the Temple Bishop spotted the lesser canine Mobs immediately. Packs of Snow Wolfs and Daggerdogs were gravitating to the Temple, because the worshippers of Fenriss would always give them something to eat and in Jotunheim hunger was main problem for everyone. But even the hungriest beasts let Bishop and her guards in peace - her powerful magical aura, that she for once didn't conceal, warned them off. Bishop didn't need her Guardians for safety, she took them with her as a token of her status as Avatar of the Mother. They were hers soldiers and no one but her could command them.

The pair of large Cu Sidhe, that guarded the main entrance, took one look of the Guardians, one sniff of Bishop's power and let them in with humble bow. She didn't spare them one look while she hurried inside cursing noiselessly. She forgot, how windy and chilly Jotunheim weather is. Inside she was greeted by a high priestess - large feral looking but intelligent Sidhe female. Her tribal tattoos and many scars, as well as the Minotaur's pelt she wore, attested to her martial abilities. That the rest of the high clergy of the Temple were all her daughters was another proof of her power - strong parents always bred strongest children. That her daughters didn't managed to succeeded her yet was another proof. Bishop was actually proud of her - she was one of hers favourite creations based on a rejected concept.

"Greetings, Mother," the priestess bowed to Bishop. "We are expecting you. Your Guardian is old enough to not need the mother's milk and would be ready to eat meat soon. It's always a shame that such fine specimen as your old Guardian died, but it is interesting to see new one to be born."

"My blessing to you, my child," Bishop smiled slightly, "thank you for helping me." She then let the priestess to lead her to her new dog. The puppy was adorable thing, still small enough for Bishop to cuddle with, its three heads yapping at her and its still blue eyes blinking sleepily. "So kawai!" Bishop squealed like schoolgirl to priestess's astonishment. Bishop let the Cu Sidhe pack the puppy in a weatherproof crate with its favourite toy - stuffed troll head - and declining politely the offered snack (Bishop isn't exactly fond of raw meat), she got back to the library without any incident.

(end of flashback)

And that was the problem.

Dog.

In Library.

Teething Dog.

In Library full of chewable books.

Teething dog with three heads in Library full of chewable books.

Not to mention her colleagues, who would be naturally rather curious about the new library's accessory. Three-headed dog is rather strange pet for a simple librarian after all.

So Bishop was thinking about how to solve her dilemma and what poor sucker, er blessed soul she could bestow the honour to foster the young Guardian into adulthood. 'Huh,' she blinked turning her eyes to the three-part dog collar on her table she let her Pixies retrieve from the dead Kerberus, 'why not Him? That should teach Him not to cheat again!' She was smiling wickedly, when she summoned new Worldtree Guardians.

***

In Kirigaya's Arrun residence Kirito blinked sleepily at an unusual sight. He thought first that he was still dreaming when he opened the door in answer to the insistent knocking. There was a large crate with something growling inside, smaller lead chest, unusual dog collar lying on the crate consisting from three dog collars connected with silver chains and three Worldtree Guardians. "Are you Kirito Kyrigaya?" one of the white featureless constructs asked politely. When Kirito dumbly nodded, he (it?) took from somewhere delivery note, large sealed envelope and inked pen presenting them to the shocked Spriggan. "We have an urgent delivery for you, sir. Would you be so kind to sign it hear..and hear? This copy is for you ... Thank you good sir for using Worldtree Delivery Service. Good day to you and give our regards to Lady Asuna and young Lady Yui." The Guardians then turned into sawdust before Kirito's bewildered eyes. The Spriggan skimmed his copy of the delivery note : "Twelve windstones of highest quality to cover the expenses, one last hit drop Kerberus Dog Collar, one express note and ... What? The? Hell? One living Kerberus puppy?" Kirito tore the envelope open and read:

"Dear Slayer of Kerberus the Arch Guardian,

Because you forgot to collect your Praise for your rather unimpressive victory (you Cheater!) above the old Guardian, we send it to you with our blessing (unfortunately) and we have humble request to you. Because you killed the old Guardian and because Lady Asuna is our proxy for Queen Titania, we would like for you to look after our new Guardian for at least a year or two. When we deemed him old enough, we will send someone to take him out of your hands. Until then we want you to do your best. We count on you!
The windstones should cover your expenses, the rest is yours to do with, what you want.

Sincerely,

The Cardinal-sama, the Spirit Guardian of Yggdrasil, Mother of Pixies, Guardian of Alfheim, Jotunheim and Nilfheim, Administrator of Balance, Silent Watcher, The One, Flame of Djins, Source of Magic, Whisperer, The Guardian of Dreams, The Observer, The Memory of Worlds, The Game Master, The Mother Earth and the Goddess of Light and Darkness.

PS: If you don't take good care of my puppy, I make sure, that you wouldn't be able to taste Lady Asuma's wonderful sandwiches ever again! So beware, you Cheater!"

"Ones again. What the Hell?" Kirito tried to make sense of the strange delivery.

The End. Not betaed. Probably not a canon.;)
 
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Then she would be killed for the safety of Halkegenia since she's already shown she will outright attack for petty reasons. No foreign country or ruler in their right mind would give a seriously lethal unstoppable threat something that will turn them into a person of mass destruction with no way to actually control them.

Seriously, think about it. If Superman was that childish and had his powers stripped, would you just give them back with no way to control it?

Octavia went out of her way not to kill anyone this time but what about next time. What proof do you have there won't be a next time? Hell, if Octavia was Joseph, would you give the tiara back if all of the circumstances were the same?

There are nine Border Guards. Given the lack of any rampages thus far I'd wager that they tend to stick to their duties for the most part.

Seriously though, why are you not reacting to Solomon this way? He's equally uncontrolled and we know that Djinn are still hostile in certain areas. Why not just attack everything that they cannot control directly?
Probably because that kind of policy just makes you an endless parade of enemies.

If Octavia was Joseph but all the circumstances were the same then Joseph would be identical to Octavia and thus not Joseph.
Your question makes no sense.

Can the Elf navy get out of the water?

I'm very confused by this question. Given it was portrayed as an actual navy in water borne boats...no?

I fail to see what difference it makes in any case.
 
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I'm very confused by this question. Given it was portrayed as an actual navy in water borne boats...no?

I fail to see what difference it makes in any case.
If they cannot get out of the water then they are sitting ducks since Octavia can attack from under them and sink there ships quite easily unless there ships have very strong wards to prevent that also unless they can target her with there magics which would be very difficult then they are helpless to her attacks.

If they had the ability to leave the water as in via boat that can also serve as an airship ala Grandship from Bravely Default then they would not be able to escape her.
 
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The difference is that Octavia has already attacked Tristainian knights and citizens, and while not with lethal force, there was an intent to do harm should they resist. And, for petty, childish reasons.

Second, is that Octavia is claiming herself to be a foreign queen. Thus any attack Octavia does can be proclaimed as an act of war. The battle shows that she is capable of thought on the same level as a human as well.

These are huge differences - as of yet, Solomon has yet to make a sway either way. He has not made an enemy of anyone yet, and while the Djinn might be Solomon, Solomon is not the Djinn.

As for Joseph, the question is basically, "would you in good conscious return a dangerous weapon to a foreign power when they lack the maturity and possible sanity to properly use it in a responsible manner after they just attacked your people?"
 
Second, is that Octavia is claiming herself to be a foreign queen. Thus any attack Octavia does can be proclaimed as an act of war. The battle shows that she is capable of thought on the same level as a human as well.

Hence why defusing her this way is so effective. If she's going to run her mouth and call herself a Queen, fine, she'll have to take her lumps as a Queen as well, including confinement as a prisoner until time that her captors see fit to release her.
 
The difference is that Octavia has already attacked Tristainian knights and citizens, and while not with lethal force, there was an intent to do harm should they resist. And, for petty, childish reasons.

Second, is that Octavia is claiming herself to be a foreign queen. Thus any attack Octavia does can be proclaimed as an act of war. The battle shows that she is capable of thought on the same level as a human as well.

These are huge differences - as of yet, Solomon has yet to make a sway either way. He has not made an enemy of anyone yet, and while the Djinn might be Solomon, Solomon is not the Djinn.

As for Joseph, the question is basically, "would you in good conscious return a dangerous weapon to a foreign power when they lack the maturity and possible sanity to properly use it in a responsible manner after they just attacked your people?"

Where does she show intent to do harm if they resist? Again, she had her mobs die rather than risk harming anyone.

So Octavia is a full foreign queen but her people aren't recognised as being her citizens and thus the attacks on them don't matter. You keep shifting the goalposts here.

No Solomon is indeed the Djinn. He's just a lot of Djinn all at once. he is kinda in charge of them all, hence all the Djinn bosses doing what he wished.

That question is loaded all over the place.
 
I'm very confused by this question. Given it was portrayed as an actual navy in water borne boats...no?

I fail to see what difference it makes in any case.

Then they're screwed. As the whole point of TH's concept is that the Border Bosses are immensely powerful but that power is limited by their environment (or draws most of their power from it as the case seems to be). Though I thought that particular scene it was Asuna in Beast Transformation and is only for a limited time as established.

Which is why I've said for Reconquista's assault Octavia won't be quite that affective against airships that can put distance between her and them. Won't be the case for the Elf navy.

And let's be honest, who doesn't like the thought of the Elves getting their ass kicked in at least one theater of war?
 
Then they're screwed. As the whole point of TH's concept is that the Border Bosses are immensely powerful but that power is limited by their environment (or draws most of their power from it as the case seems to be). Though I thought that particular scene it was Asuna in Beast Transformation and is only for a limited time as established.

Which is why I've said for Reconquista's assault Octavia won't be quite that affective against airships that can put distance between her and them. Won't be the case for the Elf navy.

And let's be honest, who doesn't like the thought of the Elves getting their ass kicked in at least one theater of war?

I agree, however it just seems pointless to me to have Octavia in the battle for Freelia. We've already seen Octavia here, having her take some time off screen allows for her return to be all awesome and stuff. It hits the Shounen trope right on the head.

On the other hand her hanging around for Freelia just means that we get our Octavia quotient used up in a fight where she cannot really be used to her full potential because the fight has to focus on other things. I feel that Freelia is a better start to the war if it is a fight between Tristain and Reconquista, without the sudden intervention of a character that, if you aren't reading the thread, basically just came out of no where. Not to mention that Octavia doesn't really fit into the War-Arc.
 
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