Thank you for that rather disturbing image, Skychan. I think I need to go find the brain bleach..Ooh, and little slimes can be trained as exfoliating sponges.
Do you have any idea what could go wrong if a slime-sponge screws up?!?
Halkegenia Online Thread 22 - Kill Sheffield Vol. 2
- Thread starter Triggerhappy
- Start date
Do you have any idea what could go wrong if a slime-sponge screws up?!?
jwolfe_beta
Semi Genre-Savvy Overlord
- Location
- Canada
Shouldn't be a problem is the species/breed used is a pure Detritivore. Worse you'd get is it eats your eyebrows along with the excess oils and dead skin.
Well obviously you are using very well trained slimes. It wasn't meant to be disturbing at all. It's sort of like using
Edit: Thank you Tempest, it's maggots not slugs.
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We do something like that in real life with using maggots to treat necrosis and clean out deep wounds.
revanninja
Lost on the Road of Life
The Issue with the Curbstomp that MANY people are missing is that the Reconquista are basing their Tactics on old out of date material.
We know there are some traitors which most have been removed from the nation but not all, the ones that some how escaped the round up are going to be as belly to the ground as possible so almost no intel is going to be coming in from them.
Since Tristain is not Stupid all the Intel they can be reasonably sure that has been compromised is going to get a reworking and if they have good Intel officers, which from all accounts Mort is, they are going to change it but on the surface make it look like its the same.
Why? Because if Reconquista moves in with the old Intel and sees the same formation as what their spies told them they are going to use that Intel and play right into the Tactics of the Tristain forces.
The Other thing to keep in mind is Defensive wars are a VASTLY different thing then an Offensive war. While Normandy was a success it was one with a nasty bite to it. 156,000 Allied troops were launched at the 50,350 troops of the Germans. Allied Wounded are 10,000 and 4,414 killed while germans suffered losses of 4-9,000.
Now why does this matter? Because Normandy happened after Operation Fortitude which made the Germans think they need to defend the whole of the coastline and made them stretch out too thin.
They were facing 3 to 1 odds with many places in their defense not complete.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normandy_landings
So in Normandy when facing 3 to 1 odds and with incomplete defenses its easy to see what would have happened if those defenses had been complete and the Germans allowed to concentrate their forces properly.
The Issue with Freelia and Sylavian, which I am probably misspelling, is that they are in fact entrenched defensive locations that are being built up as we speak. They are going to be meat grinders for Albion just getting there let alone the street clearing needed to take them as a fort.
From everything we have seen while Albion might be able to hurt the cities they dont have the ability to take it quickly and securely like they need.
They would have to commit too many troops for that then they really should.
Also as others have pointed out before Making Military tactics based on political choices is a BAD idea I cant stress that enough and usually comes around to bite people in tush. Attacking a Fae city is a politically sound idea it will boost morale of troops who have been getting ravaged by them, help show the populace they are "Created Golems", and strike terror in Tristain their new toys are not perfect.
Problem with that is Military its a bad idea most of the Fae cities are too well defended and surrounded by the mobs, Supply lines are too thin, and the ability of counterattacking is too easy.
In the LN which showed a rare ability to get it right, Tarbes was taken After the Tristain Air forces was soundly defeated, mind you it was in a dishonorable way but still, so Albion forces had almost complete control of the Air so them fielding a landing wasnt in danger of Supply line cuts, and they targeted a Farm Village to boot.
So Curbstomp battles are usually a bad idea this is true but in reality they do in fact happen and with all the current factors involved in this that is exactly what is going to happen here.
We know there are some traitors which most have been removed from the nation but not all, the ones that some how escaped the round up are going to be as belly to the ground as possible so almost no intel is going to be coming in from them.
Since Tristain is not Stupid all the Intel they can be reasonably sure that has been compromised is going to get a reworking and if they have good Intel officers, which from all accounts Mort is, they are going to change it but on the surface make it look like its the same.
Why? Because if Reconquista moves in with the old Intel and sees the same formation as what their spies told them they are going to use that Intel and play right into the Tactics of the Tristain forces.
The Other thing to keep in mind is Defensive wars are a VASTLY different thing then an Offensive war. While Normandy was a success it was one with a nasty bite to it. 156,000 Allied troops were launched at the 50,350 troops of the Germans. Allied Wounded are 10,000 and 4,414 killed while germans suffered losses of 4-9,000.
Now why does this matter? Because Normandy happened after Operation Fortitude which made the Germans think they need to defend the whole of the coastline and made them stretch out too thin.
They were facing 3 to 1 odds with many places in their defense not complete.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normandy_landings
So in Normandy when facing 3 to 1 odds and with incomplete defenses its easy to see what would have happened if those defenses had been complete and the Germans allowed to concentrate their forces properly.
The Issue with Freelia and Sylavian, which I am probably misspelling, is that they are in fact entrenched defensive locations that are being built up as we speak. They are going to be meat grinders for Albion just getting there let alone the street clearing needed to take them as a fort.
From everything we have seen while Albion might be able to hurt the cities they dont have the ability to take it quickly and securely like they need.
They would have to commit too many troops for that then they really should.
Also as others have pointed out before Making Military tactics based on political choices is a BAD idea I cant stress that enough and usually comes around to bite people in tush. Attacking a Fae city is a politically sound idea it will boost morale of troops who have been getting ravaged by them, help show the populace they are "Created Golems", and strike terror in Tristain their new toys are not perfect.
Problem with that is Military its a bad idea most of the Fae cities are too well defended and surrounded by the mobs, Supply lines are too thin, and the ability of counterattacking is too easy.
In the LN which showed a rare ability to get it right, Tarbes was taken After the Tristain Air forces was soundly defeated, mind you it was in a dishonorable way but still, so Albion forces had almost complete control of the Air so them fielding a landing wasnt in danger of Supply line cuts, and they targeted a Farm Village to boot.
So Curbstomp battles are usually a bad idea this is true but in reality they do in fact happen and with all the current factors involved in this that is exactly what is going to happen here.
- Location
- The Netherlands
The thing is, both sides are fairly evenly matched, Albion only has a somewhat stronger navy after Dunkirk and Tristain has better ground forces since the Transition, especially on defence with fae 'civilians'. Basically any scenario will end in 'attacker loses... Badly'. Since Albion is attacking in this scenario they'll indeed likely be curbstomped.
End Bringer
Keeping it logical
It's already been stated that Freelia and Sylvain likely won't be lost. But that doesn't mean it won't be a struggle. More than likely Reconquista may get some troops into the first level of Freelia (Mina's Tirath design, remember?) before being pushed out. A bit like the movie, I suppose. Only instead of a wolf-shaped battering ram, a giant air canon instead.
Sylvain will probably be more of a fight, and will require a heavier concentration of Tristan ships and forces to keep the city.
Honestly a smash and grab Reconquista's only chance at success. Fly in and try and level the cities to the ground and then go home to claim victory.
Otherwise the Reconquista fleet will get torn apart trying to take something that they inevitably cannot hold. Seriously trying to fight a vertical mobile force in an urban arena is asking to get wrecked hard.
Otherwise the Reconquista fleet will get torn apart trying to take something that they inevitably cannot hold. Seriously trying to fight a vertical mobile force in an urban arena is asking to get wrecked hard.
- Location
- Oblivion
I am sure the Reconquista army will thank Brimir for the free provisions those mobs represent.
Well that's if the mobs can make it past the Troll's, Orc's, and Ogre's.
Additionally the longer they wait and the more danger Tristian is in. The more those countries can ask for in exchange for their help.
GeshronTyler
Kleiner Giftzwerg
On my tablet, so I can't link- Looking at the map sketch of Halkegenia, Tristain has all that border with Germania to cover. So, instead of just going for Tarbes and Cadenza, perhaps Tau Tona could be threatened. That could be a real prize, with those mines there.
I did point out, that Germania is probably focused on its own Game of Thrones. Obedience to the Pope may be more lip service than ansthing else, if the regional Lords are responsible for enforcing any such policies.
It wouldn't be the smart thing to do in the long run, but for greedy, land-hungry nobles, the idea of gaining some advantage for themselves out of the chaos of war would just be business as usual- they wouldn't be all that concerned other any "collateral damage".
The key here would be only a limited, one time opportunity for Reconquista- send a detatchment through the airspace of a sympathizing/greedy/ Germanian Noble (no more than two) whose borders are on zhe coast and northern Tristain. Authorities "don't see" any violation of the border, or claim they thought it was smugglers, but failed to catch them. "Consternation" that it was in fact Reconquista. Perhaps the Noble in question has other plans running / is involved in other internal plans to weaken the Emperor's position. All is "fair" in the Game of Thrones.
Could this backfire on this speculative noble? Certainly. But these kinds of shenanigans were played out in various forms in world history in the past
Airspace is simply not fully controllable- detection is pretty much visual contact only, and if ships move at night or in bad weather, good luck seeing anything moving.
If conventional strategic wisdom, and relative lack of resources (i. E. Ships) cause Tristain to post its pickets out to sea, and not along northwest land borders, and Reconquista manages to send a half-dozen/dozen ships through in a somewhat "denial" fashion for the noble in question, those ships could secure beach heads, bombard rear area depots, catch Tristainian air units in vulnerable positions. Time with the "conventional" frontal assault, that Tristain cannot ignore, and there may be few, if any air units in a position to contend Reconquista landings in the north west. Or they might be destroyed in detail.
Now, moonlight mirror will likely allow warning to be sent to central command, but I doubt that more than major flagships will have a moon light mirror specialist- the army, and various government facilities/organs fae and human, will need them as well. Airships have travel time constraints as well- shifting dispositions will in all likelyhood take hours, even half a day, depending on wind and weather.
Meanwhile, Tristainian/Fae ground forces/air mobile units can at least scout out enemy positions and vectors, harry any advancing enemy ground/airmobile troops, and try to get civilians out of the way.
Edit:;didvwant to add that historically, nobles were often deeply in debt, because of their spending money like water, for appearrances sake, and simple fiscal irresponsibility. So, a noble in dire straits because of debt, or being pressured by an agent having bought up those debts (and threatening to call them due) is jot an unlikely scenario at all.
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Dacl73
Hungry Psudodragon
- Location
- Korvosa
It might not be as much as free provisions... also, local Orcs, are already getting picked off by Mobs in high numbers.
Vaer, again, something that was mentioned lo those many threads ago - the mobs aren't something the Reconquista is prepared to deal with. They have new attack patterns, different abilities, some of them use magic, and so on.
Then you get into the problem of what the local Pixies are doing. One Garden managed to nearly wipe out Tarbes in a rather lengthy campaign.
Given the hundreds of Pixies that showed up to join the army at the end of the last arc, I'd say the odds of Pixie intervention is going to be quite high.
Net result - it won't be random, occasional "wildlife incidents," it may very well be an organized campaign lead by Tiny!Strategists and Tiny!Beast Tamers, with the occasional Tamed!Boss Mob thrown against the army where they least expect it.
They won't win the war, but they will cause problems. They might even be problems for everyone involved. An untamed Dagger Dog Matriarch won't differentiate between Tristanian and Reconquista forces..
Edit: It is worth noting that the mobs aren't likely to attack the army - Pixie-led or not. They will prey upon isolated groups or individuals. A lone sentry who strays from their fellows? They'll have a bad night. The scouting team whose luck as run out? Lunch for some lucky boss mob.
The entire army, awake and alert? The mobs will either hide or run.
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Anzer'ke
Anarchism Ho!
How many times does TH have to spell out that the native monsters got stomped by the new ones? This has been said multiple times by now.
End Bringer
Keeping it logical
Yeah, I'm sure those mobs stuffed with their scouts and other soldiers will be nice and fat for eating.
Considering the areas where they'd heading into cleared out whole Orc tribes and put their heads on pikes as a warning, I doubt they'll have a problem with anything other than mages or whole companies that are heavily armed.
Romalia's already in the fight, just not to a great degree. If Reconquista is pushed back at Tarbes just like in cannon, I don't see them needing Germanian help, till retaking Albion. And by then, it will probably be in the form of giving Germania preference in steel and Windstone trade, and Henreitta, Wales, and Vitorrio sponsoring the Emperor for the legitimacy he was seeking for the marriage.
revanninja
Lost on the Road of Life
I do have to agree with much of the above except for one thing.
There is ZERO reasons for Tristain to give concessions to any nation.
They arent losing the war its as simple as that.
You only give concession if you are losing and need them to come in and clear out your nation for you which hasnt happened.
Not even in the LN where Concessions given the other nations didnt join up until AFTER tarbes when Tristain showed it can bloody the Mighty Albion's nose.
Germania would join up simply because they can damage and sieze Albion forces and add them to their own. They would want a piece of the Land as well but Henrietta wouldnt allow that to happen since Wales is still alive and thus the rightful King of Albion.
Gallia is going to swoop in at the last minute because it makes the most sense for them and their reward is good will.
Romalia has so much egg in their face they CANT ask for anything because if the issue with louise gets out things will get nasty for them big time since they had no right to do that at all.
If ANY nation tried to force concessions out of Tristain they would be kicked out simply because Tristain doesnt need it.
Much Smarter to lend add and then set up Trade agreements for War Time Material like Steel in Germania's case then after the war settle those Agreements into official long term trade.
Vaer has shown not a single concrete reason why those Concessions would be forced.
There is ZERO reasons for Tristain to give concessions to any nation.
They arent losing the war its as simple as that.
You only give concession if you are losing and need them to come in and clear out your nation for you which hasnt happened.
Not even in the LN where Concessions given the other nations didnt join up until AFTER tarbes when Tristain showed it can bloody the Mighty Albion's nose.
Germania would join up simply because they can damage and sieze Albion forces and add them to their own. They would want a piece of the Land as well but Henrietta wouldnt allow that to happen since Wales is still alive and thus the rightful King of Albion.
Gallia is going to swoop in at the last minute because it makes the most sense for them and their reward is good will.
Romalia has so much egg in their face they CANT ask for anything because if the issue with louise gets out things will get nasty for them big time since they had no right to do that at all.
If ANY nation tried to force concessions out of Tristain they would be kicked out simply because Tristain doesnt need it.
Much Smarter to lend add and then set up Trade agreements for War Time Material like Steel in Germania's case then after the war settle those Agreements into official long term trade.
Vaer has shown not a single concrete reason why those Concessions would be forced.
- Location
- Oblivion
The Cu Sidhe would probably object to being considered "just Mobs".
Trolls/Ogre's are 15-20 feet tall, magically tough skinned, intelligent, complex tool using, and capable of crushing solid bronze golems with their bare hands.
Meaning that things that could reliably put them down going to be at "incinerate armored human and his horse with a single attack" levels.
That's not to say that they won't get killed, because they will. But I feel you are woefully underestimating the threat levels of various Halk creatures.
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Concessions could be "encouraged" because the war is going to be happening inside Tristain's borders. The troops raiding for food? They are stealing what keeps the citizenry of Tristain fed. The looting and pillaging? That's the lives and livelihood of Tristanian citizens that will be destroyed.
Alternatively, those two countries could counter-invade to support Tristain. ("Look at us! We are the heroes! We protected you! Don't you feel warm and fuzzy when you think about us?")
That said, there are also other "fringe benefits" to the war from the Germanian / Romalian perspective.
- The Fae are an amazing resource of ideas and ingenuity. With Tristain suddenly unsafe, where will they go? It might be possible for the other nations to "scoop up" some of that Fae knowledge for themselves.
- Airships run on Windstones. There's going to be a great deal of loss during the invasion on both the Reconquista and the Tristanian sides. That means salvage will be available. Will salvaged Windstones work as well as perfectly formed / crafted ones? Probably not. Are they still useful and valuable? Yes.
Vaer, TH has gone on record - the author of this work, the only person whose word matters, and said that the Alfheim critters are wiping out the Halkegenian mobs. The Alfheim critters are the better predators.You are saying that I am woefully underestimating the threat levels of the Halkegenian creatures? You are doing that in regards to the Alfheim mobs.
The Alfheim mobs are dangerous because:
- They are designed to be hunted by Fae Player Characters - the equivalent of Triangle class mages and super-fae-ly-strong warriors.
- They are going to be led by Pixies. Insert Tiny!Generals and Tiny!Captains here.
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revanninja
Lost on the Road of Life
The Issue with that it is not in Tristain's borders its going to be in Albions from everything TH has said.
Albion will TRY to make it Tristain's but they are going to be Soundly defeated and forced back.
Also those "Reasons"? Are just looting and Pillaging and not a good reason for Concessions to be given like oh you can only buy Our steel and the like.
Plus from the sounds of the Mob Patrols that will be kept to a Min.
Seriously Tristain needs to be in MUCH worse shape for Concessions to be given.
Also the Fae are unlikely to go anywhere for awhile.
Too many unknowns in other Countries vs Tristain who has gone WELL above normal to make them home.
Will there be some? Sure but not a large amount of them a few here or there and many of them will be like Ephi who arent welcome in Fae Society for whatever reason.
Airships are a given.
But yeah from everything TH has written so far Tristain isnt going to stand for an Invasion and will kick them out in short order.
And you need the situation to be a LARGE amount of Land Captured for those things to even remotely come true.
So far one city on the border that is a poor choice defensively and was more an orderly retreat then a route isnt going to create that situation.
Nations have Minor Invasions like this all the time and it doesnt force that issue at all. You need them to be in the Capital or near it for those to become needed.
End Bringer
Keeping it logical
And their's an entire category of plant type mobs that can probably paralyze and ingest them.
And you generally downplay all of the Fae and the rest of ALFheim.
Yeah, Halk creatures may be more dangerous and powerful than some mobs. But not all of them, and likely not just the ones at Boss level.
GeshronTyler
Kleiner Giftzwerg
I dispute that waitijg until next spring would necessarily be the smarter strategic move for Reconquista. Yes, it would allow them to gather more resources, and more importantly, more intelligence.
Set against that- the "mob" of Albion is becoming restive, Reconquista needs some grand dramatic military successes to prove to the people (and some nobles) that Cromwellmdoes in fact mean to carry out his grand vision, and not just be "the new king, much likemthe old king".
Henrietta is busily consolidating power, and the Fae are integrating more into the fabric of society (and their innovations) every day. Next spring will see Tristain all the stronger, in qll likely hood.
The longer things drag on, the more The Pope, and other Brimiric nations might come to an accord to "do something" about the toppling of the Founder approved ruling house of Albion. True, Albion, controllling Halkegenia's strategic windstone supplies make things tricky, but Albion isn't entirely self-sufficient. Enough concern over the effects of embargoes or blockades might get a counter-revolution going.
A series of heavy raids and forcing decisive battles would serve Reconquista better, that I believe to be the case, but sooner than later, not in Spring
Unfortunately for the more talented and objective strategic thinkers on the side of Reconquista, it appears that nothing less than a full invasion will satisfy them.
Set against that- the "mob" of Albion is becoming restive, Reconquista needs some grand dramatic military successes to prove to the people (and some nobles) that Cromwellmdoes in fact mean to carry out his grand vision, and not just be "the new king, much likemthe old king".
Henrietta is busily consolidating power, and the Fae are integrating more into the fabric of society (and their innovations) every day. Next spring will see Tristain all the stronger, in qll likely hood.
The longer things drag on, the more The Pope, and other Brimiric nations might come to an accord to "do something" about the toppling of the Founder approved ruling house of Albion. True, Albion, controllling Halkegenia's strategic windstone supplies make things tricky, but Albion isn't entirely self-sufficient. Enough concern over the effects of embargoes or blockades might get a counter-revolution going.
A series of heavy raids and forcing decisive battles would serve Reconquista better, that I believe to be the case, but sooner than later, not in Spring
Unfortunately for the more talented and objective strategic thinkers on the side of Reconquista, it appears that nothing less than a full invasion will satisfy them.
- Location
- Oblivion
You probably don't want to use salvaged Wind Stones, they could unstable or damaged.
I won't discount the possibility.
However going by magical durability of Minotaur skin as an example of such. (TSS) Actually injecting a paralyzing agent into their bodies will be difficultly. And any magical stun effects would probably be temporary and of short duration since that's almost always how it works in games.
That depends on how you compare the creatures.
If you have say a Troll vs a High Level Boss then yea the Troll is probably going to die. (Complex Tool using so can't be 100% sure there.)
But if you have say an Adult Rhyme Dragon or Ancient Manticore well I would pit them against a high level boss any day of the week.
Of course the Adult Rhyme Dragon or Ancient Manticore would be beaten by a Raid Boss.
And the Raid Boss could probably be beaten by the Elves/Winged People.
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Vaer, the problem with your view on Halk mobs is that yes they are a threat... to humans.
For Faeries, these Halk mobs are at best big game to hunt. Hell killing a dragon was a requirement for entry into Mort's guild before the Transition. When one of the more dangerous mobs in Halk is at best a worth foe in ALO, you have a good scale to judge from.
For Faeries, these Halk mobs are at best big game to hunt. Hell killing a dragon was a requirement for entry into Mort's guild before the Transition. When one of the more dangerous mobs in Halk is at best a worth foe in ALO, you have a good scale to judge from.
Can you use one Windstone to recharge another? Or "facet" a damaged Windstone to create lesser Windstones that you could use?
(Real life example of faceting - diamonds are often resized when they are cut. Cracks or intrusions into the diamond are removed. This can result in one "large," rough diamond ending up as many "small" or "tiny" but "perfect" diamonds.)
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Dacl73
Hungry Psudodragon
- Location
- Korvosa
That, I agree with... Hit and fade strikes, to weaken and sow fear in Tristain and the Fae, weakening their resolve. But, a full invasion, shouldn't happen until Spring. However, those who know this, are not the ones in charge.
Here, is what I see happening, on each field of battle.
Freelia: Having already been discribed as a Sandstone Island Minas Tirith. In addition, it has Cannons that are more accuret and longer range then Reconquista's, and has Fae Dragon Riders, means a Siege on Freelia is nothing less then futile at this point. I see a Massive route for Reconquista's forces, if not a complete and total loss of all ships and men.
Sylvain: Will be a Bloody battle, as it isn't as heavily defended, but, the flight advantage and speed of the Sylphs means that most likely, Reconquista will end up having their airships get captured there. Maybe not all of them, but somewhere between a quarter to half of the Airships captured.
Cadenza: Organized retreat of the Fae forces, with harriers leaving the Reconquista forces off guard, and the area so well trapped that trying to hold it will end up costing them more men then the Sylvain battle.
- Location
- Oblivion
They are a threat to Mages not Humans.
To reiterate a previous mention, the skin on a Minotaur is so tough that a Triangle class mages spells can't penetrate it. (TSS)
TBH no clue.
But you would probably need an Elf or another Ancient Magic user to do the first.
I don't see any problem with the second though given they are mined and then cut into their current form.
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