Which skills do we want for not entering bargains that we shouldn't then, and maybe even getting deserving targets to enter bargains that they shouldn't?
Gravedigger Quest
- Thread starter Renu
- Start date
- Original Fantasy
Which skills do we want for not entering bargains that we shouldn't then, and maybe even getting deserving targets to enter bargains that they shouldn't?
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
[X][Core] Ranger
An agile fighter, adept at any range. Especially adapted to fight in nature. A shield that leaves the hand free provides added protection.
[X][Secondary] Magic
[X][Secondary] Medicine
[X][Secondary] Tactics
[X][Secondary] Deception
Yeah, I like this. Just need to figure out the last secondary. I think Etiquette is best, just given Lirra's stated friendship goal.
An agile fighter, adept at any range. Especially adapted to fight in nature. A shield that leaves the hand free provides added protection.
- Weapons: Bow, dagger, axe, spear.
- Armor: Light, Shield
- Support: Survival, lore, stealth
[X][Secondary] Magic
[X][Secondary] Medicine
[X][Secondary] Tactics
[X][Secondary] Deception
Yeah, I like this. Just need to figure out the last secondary. I think Etiquette is best, just given Lirra's stated friendship goal.
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[X][Core] Ranger
[X][Secondary] Innate
[X][Secondary] Magic
[X][Secondary] Etiquette
[X][Secondary] Medicine
[X][Secondary] Deception
[X][Secondary] Innate
[X][Secondary] Magic
[X][Secondary] Etiquette
[X][Secondary] Medicine
[X][Secondary] Deception
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SolipsistSerpent
Endlessly Devouring
She's the Not-Japanese kid we befriended immediately before fucking up a magical memory thing and scrambling our memories of the previous couple days.
- Location
- St. Petersburg
Hm, pretty much everyone zeroed in on the Ranger and Spellblade classes - likely not a coincidence because I too marked them down before looking at the state of the vote, - and... Commander? Lirra never striked me as a good commander, though, but as a reliable and resourceful independent operator.
Let's list them next to each other.
Gnarker's analysis was good, but I can't for the life of me understand why we'd need proficiency with four different types of weapons instead of a mastery of two, one for melee, and one for ranged. It is unlikely you get to use several of them in a single encounter, and while adding a dagger skill to your roster adds versatility, I don't think it adds enough compared to a separate magic school.
Unlike with weapons there is much less overlap in function when it comes to magic.
I very much want Lirra to take some classes in Tactics, too. If we are angling for a versatile build, be it with several schools of weapons or magic, she absolutely needs to know when it's best to use each to squeeze the most out of them. Even when it concerns group combat, at the very least that would allow her to pick a role she'd be most useful in.
With that said, I lean closer to the Imp. Spellblade build, but I still lament the lack of a single, universal, not magic-reliant ranged weapon.
I know Command goes well with Tactics, but I can't imagine Lirra as a Commander at all, so this would be the first thing on the chopping block. Unfortunately, it's written in the class description.
Why is that, by the way? The Spellblade had "lore, alchemy, medicine" as its support skills, and Imp. Spellblade substitutes them with "tactics, command, medicine"... and then takes "lore, alchemy" as secondary. Wouldn't it make much more sense to keep the Primary attributes intact, and take "tactics, command" as Secondary?
Let's list them next to each other.
[][Core] Spellblade
A fighter adept at magic
A fighter adept at magic
- Weapons: Sword, elemental magic, alteration magic, creation magic
- Armor: Light
- Support: Lore, alchemy, medicine
[ ][Core] Improved Spellblade
A Spear wielder adept at magic and tactics
[ ][Secondary] Lore
[ ][Secondary] Innate
[ ][Secondary] Mind Magic
[ ][Secondary] Alchemy
[ ][Secondary] Deception
A Spear wielder adept at magic and tactics
- Weapons: Spear, elemental magic, alteration magic, creation magic
- Armor: Light, shield
- Support: Tactics, command, medicine
[ ][Secondary] Lore
[ ][Secondary] Innate
[ ][Secondary] Mind Magic
[ ][Secondary] Alchemy
[ ][Secondary] Deception
[][Core] Ranger
An agile fighter, adept at any range. Especially adapted to fight in nature.
An agile fighter, adept at any range. Especially adapted to fight in nature.
- Weapons: Bow, dagger, axe, spear
- Armor: Light
- Support: Survival, lore, stealth
[ ][Core] Ranger +
An agile fighter, adept at any range. Especially adapted to fight in nature. A shield that leaves the hand free provides added protection.
[ ][Secondary] Magic
[ ][Secondary] Alchemy
[ ][Secondary] Medicine
[ ][Secondary] Etiquette? Tactics?
An agile fighter, adept at any range. Especially adapted to fight in nature. A shield that leaves the hand free provides added protection.
- Weapons: Bow, dagger, axe, spear.
- Armor: Light, Shield
- Support: Survival, lore, stealth
[ ][Secondary] Magic
[ ][Secondary] Alchemy
[ ][Secondary] Medicine
[ ][Secondary] Etiquette? Tactics?
Gnarker's analysis was good, but I can't for the life of me understand why we'd need proficiency with four different types of weapons instead of a mastery of two, one for melee, and one for ranged. It is unlikely you get to use several of them in a single encounter, and while adding a dagger skill to your roster adds versatility, I don't think it adds enough compared to a separate magic school.
Unlike with weapons there is much less overlap in function when it comes to magic.
I very much want Lirra to take some classes in Tactics, too. If we are angling for a versatile build, be it with several schools of weapons or magic, she absolutely needs to know when it's best to use each to squeeze the most out of them. Even when it concerns group combat, at the very least that would allow her to pick a role she'd be most useful in.
With that said, I lean closer to the Imp. Spellblade build, but I still lament the lack of a single, universal, not magic-reliant ranged weapon.
I know Command goes well with Tactics, but I can't imagine Lirra as a Commander at all, so this would be the first thing on the chopping block. Unfortunately, it's written in the class description.
Why is that, by the way? The Spellblade had "lore, alchemy, medicine" as its support skills, and Imp. Spellblade substitutes them with "tactics, command, medicine"... and then takes "lore, alchemy" as secondary. Wouldn't it make much more sense to keep the Primary attributes intact, and take "tactics, command" as Secondary?
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Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
Because melee has its own range, and conditions where they are optimal. The spear is the longest weapon, and has the most range, but it's not great for tight corridors and you need both hands available to get the most out of it. If say, you need to hold a torch or have a hand available for magic, the spear can get awkward. The dagger is good when you want to kill quietly, have a hidden weapon, or just something in your off hand if you have a short sword or the like. The ax is mostly a tool I think, but when working in thick forests, swamps or jungles, you'll be glad to have it. Otherwise it's a middling option to the spear and dagger. Longer reach then the dagger, shorter then the spear. As a bonus, it gives Lirra options if she's fighting something that's got a good counter to her spear, like thick armor. Axes are good crushing weapons, though obviously not as good as a hammer or mace. Either way it's a sensible set up.
And it is worth more then more magic, because we'll be working with a support team that's bringing plenty of magic, and as a Sword it's our job to be between them and whatever wants to kill us. I support working on our innate as well as general magic, but let's not go over board.
NaanContributor
Provider of delicious flatbread, and nothing else.
- Location
- Hawaii
[X][Core] Ranger +
[X][Secondary] Innate
[X][Secondary] Magic
[X][Secondary] Medicine
[X][Secondary] Etiquette
[X][Secondary] Deception
Switched Alchemy for Deception, since Alchemy is available for purchase with Echoes, but Deception isn't.
[X][Secondary] Innate
[X][Secondary] Magic
[X][Secondary] Medicine
[X][Secondary] Etiquette
[X][Secondary] Deception
Switched Alchemy for Deception, since Alchemy is available for purchase with Echoes, but Deception isn't.
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Thank you! I try, but of course I have no illusion that my reasoning is flawless.
What nottheunmaker said. There's is no universal melee weapon, they all have different dis-/advantages and use cases. I had considered dropping either the axe or the dagger, if I could just decide which. Lirra's slight build and speed suggests in-fighting as a close-range tactic, getting up to your opponent and into the blindspots of their sight and movement. Knives are best for that, axes less so as they're less agile and need more space to swing (You can actually grip just beneath the head on a bearded axe to use it as ersatz brass knuckles, but this is obviously less effective, especially without a lot of strength to back it up. You can also use it as a grappling aid, but again, strength), not to mention more tiring.
On the other hand, ideally we'd need a non-steel knife on account of Lirra's iron allergy and the associated uneasiness with weapons made from it, so hafted weapons would be better. There's also the fact that outside of niche scenarios such as infighting or seeking out chinks in plate armor, the dagger is just not a very good weapon, you don't have reach and it's too short to really parry.
So the axe is fudamentally a better weapon, particularly when paired with a shield to improve your defense, but it's unsuited for Lirra's fighting style. The dagger is better suited, but has glaring flaws. Neither is perfect, but they both fulfill different roles which we'll want filled, so the best solution I can see for now really is to learn them both, even if it's a bit wasteful. The only compromise I can think of might be a short sword maybe? Still doesn't solve all the problems of the dagger though.
This is mostly a short-to-mid-term choice however. Due to the nature of Echoes and the cheap prices for the initial levels, we'll likely pick up some proficiency with almost all weapons in the log run. We can still change our weapon choices later on with only moderate issue.
Agreed. Lore also deserves a mention, at least if I'm interpreting Chloe perk from back in the initiation forest right, in that it's a prerequisite of Tactics. You can't plan around your enemy if you don't know them.
Depending on the armor (plate armor specifically), the dagger may actually be a better option against it than the axe. Worth noting of course that it's perfectly possible to fit a warhammer-head onto the back of an axe.
That's almost assuredly an oversight. Better consideration is which type of Echoes they fall under. But yes, I'm most likely changing my fifth vote slot to something in that vein, pending GM reply.
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- Location
- St. Petersburg
Oh, I thought Lore non-negotiable as it is present on all of the character plans. It's an innate skill for both Ranger and Spellblade, and even Imp Spellblade leaves it (though switching it to a secondary role).
I did think that's what you were getting at, admittedly. Spear, sword and shield were classics for a reason, be it hoplites or legionaries. Although it makes us more... shall we say, generic?
I kinda like the concept of the Ranger more, even though I think its skillset might be a bit lacking in the magical department.
[x][Core] Ranger +
[x][Secondary] Innate
[x][Secondary] Magic
[x][Secondary] Medicine
[x][Secondary] Tactics
[x][Secondary] Deception
Dropped Alchemy from the list - we'd have to rely on our friends to stock us up on potions, - but retained Medicine for emergencies in the field. Help is in short supply in the wilderness.
Added Deception - it should fit with the class, if only to cover our tracks or learn how to track that which others want hidden. It also goes well with Tactics, since it doesn't require outright lying to trick a foe into a desired line of thinking and get favorable terms of engagement.
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Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
My only complaint is that the ranger uses light armor, which just isn't enough of a safety net for a front line fighter. I'd be much happier with medium, and wouldn't be apposed to heavy if Lirra's problem with iron wasn't such a concern.
- Location
- St. Petersburg
Leather - or studded leather - armor is standard issue for rangers, though. What counts as a medium armor? Chainmail? Breastplate?
I put a lot more stock in stealth, ambush and hit-and-run than in being a frontline fighter, what with the summary of our strong and weak points we were given. A shield is already enough of a compromise with mobility.
Hm, now that I think about it, Skirmisher doesn't sound so bad either...
I put a lot more stock in stealth, ambush and hit-and-run than in being a frontline fighter, what with the summary of our strong and weak points we were given. A shield is already enough of a compromise with mobility.
Hm, now that I think about it, Skirmisher doesn't sound so bad either...
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Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
Stealth and ambush are all well and good, but are much harder to achieve when you're on the offensive, and you never know when you'll be ambushed yourself. And again, Lirra will be putting her squishy body between monsters and her friends. She needs to be able to take some hits. In an ideal world she'd always strike first and kill in a single blow, but this places is clearly far less welcoming then that. And these monsters are nasty. It's better to have wiggle room for when things go wrong.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Happy new year, everyone!
I added the description of Deception in the story post:
[][Secondary] Deception
I added the description of Deception in the story post:
[][Secondary] Deception
- An introductory class aimed at students coming from Emoulin. It attempts to teach them that it is, in fact, possible to say things that aren't actually true.
Or maybe she's just a jerk.
It will be by things in []. The secondary will be weighed, so by line.
It's mostly up to the players, but Innate covers your Fae things. Etiquette could help, I guess.
EternalObserver
eYe Gaze baCk
- Location
- The Void
[X][Core] Improved Spellblade
[X][Secondary] Lore
[X][Secondary] Innate
[X][Secondary] Deception
[X][Secondary] Medicine
[X][Secondary] Etiquette
[X][Secondary] Lore
[X][Secondary] Innate
[X][Secondary] Deception
[X][Secondary] Medicine
[X][Secondary] Etiquette
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Yeah, alright. Switched.
[x][Core] Ranger +
[x][Secondary] Innate
[x][Secondary] Magic
[x][Secondary] Medicine
[x][Secondary] Tactics
[x][Secondary] Deception
Honestly, I'd be more happy with medium armor too. But what would that be made of? Chainmail I'd assume, and that's not any better than steel plate. If just holding a steel dagger through thick leather gloves is enough to have Lirra constantly on edge, then I don't exactly want to find out what sort of near-panic attack being trapped in an almost skintight steel prison is going to cause her. Bronze would be an alternative, but is also pretty heavy.
Add the fact that she's still pretty slight and weak and doesn't yet really have the endurance to add that kind of weight.
So until the latter changes, and we can get some kind of drake-scale armor or something, I think we're stuck with light armor. We'll trade up eventually.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
If you want to look at things armor-wise, the quest setting looks late 16th century-ish, with some anachronic (Endercross is straight up cyberpunk-ing things up, while Emoulin still is more on the medieval side) things.
As there are early guns and such, heavy armor is falling into disuse, as you can see with the fact that only one class uses it.
Now, of course you can make it work old school as we see with Melkorka's runic armor but yeah.
As there are early guns and such, heavy armor is falling into disuse, as you can see with the fact that only one class uses it.
Now, of course you can make it work old school as we see with Melkorka's runic armor but yeah.
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- Location
- Attached to a wall
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X][Core] Spellblade
[X][Secondary] Innate
[X][Secondary] Magic
[X][Secondary] Riding
[X][Secondary] Etiquette
[X][Secondary] Survival
I hope this will go good with riding beasts will go good with Beloved Child of the Forest and Child of the Wyld We can move faster than anyone through the forests and we might take up a unconventional mount.
[X][Secondary] Innate
[X][Secondary] Magic
[X][Secondary] Riding
[X][Secondary] Etiquette
[X][Secondary] Survival
I hope this will go good with riding beasts will go good with Beloved Child of the Forest and Child of the Wyld We can move faster than anyone through the forests and we might take up a unconventional mount.
- Location
- The state of Paranoia
I think that Command will help Lirra be more assertive, which I think will be good for her character development. Imagine if Lirra was brave enough to just go up and ask Furuta who she is, and what kind of hilarious shenanigans would ensue.
Edit:
Now that I look at it, I put alchemy as a secondary. It's to make up for not having it in the core. So it shouldn't be a problem if the secondaries are counted as part of the same vote, which is implied by the fact that having a secondary that overlaps with the primary is useless. (Edit: apparently I'm wrong on that. I hope that secondaries which overlap with the winning core aren't counted)
edit 2:
I see you noticed that. Yeah, now that you mention it that would make sense too. At the time I was thinking that command would be better to focus on, due to character growth and helping us shape battles more effectively. Lore was deemed secondary because if we can consistently get Chloe on our team (which I've posted ideas for how to do during previous votes) she can feed us Lore knowledge.
Edit 3:
Hmmm. For some reason, Ranger and Ranger + votes seem to be counting as the same. I was wondering where all the Ranger + votes were. Not sure how to fix this other than counting those votes by hand.
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- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X][Core] Ranger
[X][Secondary] Lore
[X][Secondary] Innate
[X][Secondary] Magic
[X][Secondary] Deception
[X][Secondary] Etiquette
[X][Secondary] Lore
[X][Secondary] Innate
[X][Secondary] Magic
[X][Secondary] Deception
[X][Secondary] Etiquette
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Currently winning:
Core: ranger
Secondaries: Magic, deception, innate, etiquette and medicine
The vote will still be up for a few days because I'll travel soon.
Core: ranger
Secondaries: Magic, deception, innate, etiquette and medicine
The vote will still be up for a few days because I'll travel soon.
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
We're assuming it'd be iron or steel mail, or something of that nature. Changelings have been a thing for a long time in this world, there has to be alternatives they can use. We just haven't looked into them yet.
It's not immediately pressing, I'm happy with our list as it stands, but we should take some time to look into this. Again, it's her job as a sword to guard her friends and to be in the thick of the fighting.