Grandfather Clock and the Town of Mimics (Mafia)

I'm confused about your confusion. Why wouldn't I? I need to be objective. Failing to do one on myself and my predecessor could be cause for doubt as to the veracity of the quotes I have pulled. It's how I've always operated the info blocks.

Due to the fact that people don't care about what you write about yourself since it is going to be inherently biased, it is literally impossible to be 100% objective about yourself in this type fo game. And people are not going to worry about the veracity of quotes you pull since it is a game where they can just check if a quote has been altered and how.

Since let me be clear, if a group loses due to being tricked by altered quotes, they deserve to lose. So its just a waste of time by distracting you from the actual useful content generally.
 
Due to the fact that people don't care about what you write about yourself since it is going to be inherently biased, it is literally impossible to be 100% objective about yourself in this type fo game. And people are not going to worry about the veracity of quotes you pull since it is a game where they can just check if a quote has been altered and how.
I wasn't referring to altering the quotes themselves. I was referring to the presentation. As I said previously here:
I generally don't post the incomplete ones unless either necessary, or unless requested since I don't want to be accused of trying to lead Town on by giving incomplete information.
Presenting incomplete information, which quoting like this will inevitably be since I have to pull the "important" or "relevant" quotes rather than literally every post made, can be used to push an agenda. I don't make these info-blocks to push an agenda. I do so to help, as I have both when I did it as scum SK and when I've done it as Town. Objectivity is important. If I leave out certain quotes, especially ones connected to my own character, that could push doubt that I have left out other important information that might make myself look better or others worse.

Also, I can very much be objective about myself. That's why I always have you guys define what you want me to look for before I do so. If I have a definition to go through, I just pull whatever falls under that definition for objective standards to abide by. I also generally try to keep subjective statements out of my info-blocks, in favor of merely contextualizing what is being presented. That in itself could fall to human error, of course, but it is entirely negligible at that point.

Like, dude, I have literally run scum-town analyses on myself before using these to help present the overarching arguments from everyone against each individual. When you are just quoting and contextualizing, you can very much be objective. Just don't try to push an opinion and you're good.
 
Presenting incomplete information, which quoting like this will inevitably be since I have to pull the "important" or "relevant" quotes rather than literally every post made, can be used to push an agenda. I don't make these info-blocks to push an agenda. I do so to help, as I have both when I did it as scum SK and when I've done it as Town. Objectivity is important. If I leave out certain quotes, especially ones connected to my own character, that could push doubt that I have left out other important information that might make myself look better or others worse.

Also, I can very much be objective about myself. That's why I always have you guys define what you want me to look for before I do so. If I have a definition to go through, I just pull whatever falls under that definition for objective standards to abide by. I also generally try to keep subjective statements out of my info-blocks, in favor of merely contextualizing what is being presented. That in itself could fall to human error, of course, but it is entirely negligible at that point.

Like, dude, I have literally run scum-town analyses on myself before using these to help present the overarching arguments from everyone against each individual. When you are just quoting and contextualizing, you can very much be objective. Just don't try to push an opinion and you're good.

I disagree with like all of us this but it not worth continuing the argument frankly until the post-game if you want it. It'll just be a distraction otherwise.
 
And speaking of setting the pace, give me your thoughts on the Scia and Pyrros posts I've mentioned, please. It is rather important at this point.

I don't make *too much* of either tbh, and I'm kinda dead in the water right now. I'll try to do a deeper read on the slot going back, but if anything stands out there to me, it's how definitive the Cyri read is. Like, every other read has a lot of hedging, so an oddly confident Cyri read seems weird to me. I've been townreading Cyri as well of course since EoD1, but, it's, how to describe it, more a read I'd characterize more by the absence of any strong scum feelings despite activity than a strong gut "CYRI SEEMS TOWNY" if that makes sense?

Like, I thought I had a decent handle on the game state, but I'm really not sure I know which way's up atm.

Perhaps it's really a bastard game and everyone but me is scum with a fake flip!

My Tuesdays are busy so I wasn't around much, and Wednesdays are shaping up to be a bit of a mess too, but I'll try to make time in the last few hours of the day to do more.
 
I disagree with like all of us this but it not worth continuing the argument frankly until the post-game if you want it. It'll just be a distraction otherwise.
I mean, I'd be willing to post-game, and it definitely should be post-game if it does happen since people erroneously went from town-reading me to scum-reading me just because I had an opposing opinion on game theory with them in a separate Mafia game. I doubt it would come to much though since I disagree with pretty every single aspect of game theory you've commented on, including ones that I didn't respond to you talking about because of how paranoid you guys get when people oppose you on explicitly NAI meta topics.

I'm also not really that interested in arguing to be honest. I hate arguments on SV because it's always just a bunch of people trying to assert their intellectual superiority instead of merely discussing topics like on my old board - as even the Council has alluded to acknowledging in one of their meetings. I'm more a fan of lighthearted talking and hearing different opinions than trying to prove being "right" over an improvable matter. That's not really something I expect to get from here, and not on these topics with so many points of potential contention.

Anyhow, I'll stop talking about that subject now. Just wanted to make my thoughts clear on the idea of talking after the game.
 
I mean, I'd be willing to post-game, and it definitely should be post-game if it does happen since people erroneously went from town-reading me to scum-reading me just because I had an opposing opinion on game theory with them in a separate Mafia game.
*the grammar is unclear here. I'm saying within the bounds of a separate game, I had made a game theory-related comment and people took that as scum-indicative within that same game
 
Sorry for being so quiet. I've been a bit under the weather.

I'm afraid I have little to offer. My strongest suspicion is still Interstellar hobo, due to the weirdness of the EoD attempt to shift the vote onto me.

I know we aren't killing today, but I would like to have made some progress in solving the game.
 
Currently doing ISO's on all the living players when I can get the time, just checking in to show I am here and I"m catching up

@mesonoxian do you have more to go on or is it simply the weirdness of the EoD?

If I don't get the time to post up my thoughts know that right now I've dropped all my previous reads and am working ground up from what I remember at the time and re-examining everything to see what conclusions I reach and compare it with old notes.

Tomorrow we're in LyLo, which means a single mis-placed town vote is scum win. Don't trust easily and be very cautious with your votes. Examine EVERYTHING. In addition a single non-placed vote is easily scum's win too as Ties trigger a No-Lynch don't forget this.
 
Currently doing ISO's on all the living players when I can get the time, just checking in to show I am here and I"m catching up

@mesonoxian do you have more to go on or is it simply the weirdness of the EoD?

If I don't get the time to post up my thoughts know that right now I've dropped all my previous reads and am working ground up from what I remember at the time and re-examining everything to see what conclusions I reach and compare it with old notes.

Tomorrow we're in LyLo, which means a single mis-placed town vote is scum win. Don't trust easily and be very cautious with your votes. Examine EVERYTHING. In addition a single non-placed vote is easily scum's win too as Ties trigger a No-Lynch don't forget this.
Right now that is all I am going on.
 
Didn't realize what we had another day and actually didn't bother to get on yesterday night to finish my ISO's...that's a big oof from me.

@InterstellarHobo can you give me your current thoughts and suspicions please? I don't believe you've posted at all today and that's not good.

@Pawn Lelouch can you redo your Iso of IH and Shadell for me and tell me what you get from it?
 
@InterstellarHobo please post or we lose to a modkill it seems (unless you're scum, in which case staying silent may be helpful).

@Pawn Lelouch @Cyricubed so, dumb idea or not so dumb idea, but I'm worried about the extent of mid-game fatigue we have going, and my inclination is to try to do something to shake things up. Specifically, I was thinking of asking every player to tell us the best reasons to scumread themselves, but I'm a bit worried on what this might entail.
 
Almost quoted my entire brick of an Iso there...

I wouldn't want anyone to be modkilled at this stage anyway, I've enjoyed the game greatly so far and it'd be bittersweet to see a modkill at this stage.

I just...don't think that's a good idea. Like D1 meme level there. I can't be too much of a hypocrite but I'm suprised to have not seen more people poking other people.
 
@mesonoxian if you have time today please give me your thoughts on Pyrros and Pawn. I don't think you've touched on them much since their swap in if memory serves correctly.
@PyrrosWarrior you've stated an objective based look through of Hobo and Pawn, but what of your opinion on them? Does something stand out as off or do they seem town to you? If something does seem off can you provide a point of reference for the train of thought?
 
Didn't realize what we had another day and actually didn't bother to get on yesterday night to finish my ISO's...that's a big oof from me.

@InterstellarHobo can you give me your current thoughts and suspicions please? I don't believe you've posted at all today and that's not good.

@Pawn Lelouch can you redo your Iso of IH and Shadell for me and tell me what you get from it?
@InterstellarHobo please post or we lose to a modkill it seems (unless you're scum, in which case staying silent may be helpful).

@Pawn Lelouch @Cyricubed so, dumb idea or not so dumb idea, but I'm worried about the extent of mid-game fatigue we have going, and my inclination is to try to do something to shake things up. Specifically, I was thinking of asking every player to tell us the best reasons to scumread themselves, but I'm a bit worried on what this might entail.
Sorry, been too busy to care about this lately.

Reads are basically unchanged, save that meso is now a weaker scumread than QT.

QT/Pawn I think is most likely scum. Mostly from dodging pushes while still QT, early posts as pawn rub me wrong.
Meso I still think is scum. My reasoning before did not rely on Yun being scum, I see the same contradiction either way. It no longer serves an obvious scum purpose though, so my scumread is no longer confident.
I haven't done due diligence on either Cyric or Pyrros.
Shadell I still think is town from early iso.

[x] No Lynch
 
@Pawn Lelouch can you redo your Iso of IH and Shadell for me and tell me what you get from it?

IH is still my primary town read today. IH had been scum reading Meso consistently so the EOD wagon makes even more sense and I do think it was a correct idea within the context of that EOD gamestate.
General impression of Yun is someone feeling highly pressured, and arguing poorly/in bad faith to try to avert it.
This impression is pretty strong right now.
I think I'm more inclined to vote elsewhere today.
This is the only post that is slightly off to me. But even then, this could pretty easily be a case of just reading Yun well, rather than having TMI to give insight onto them.

For Shadell I dislike a lot of her early stuff regarding Zaelix, namely bits like saying he is a bad hit and yet keeping the vote up. And then jumping in on him as the least bad vote, which on Day 1 is frankly a mindset for a vote that hits town way above rand and I'm not sure that she believes that honestly? (Noting to myself in general, TRing Pyrros/Meso, SRing IH/Cyri here)

Personally disagree with Shadell's interpretations regarding GTH stuff, since it is very useful as a way to get a proper idea of where the thread is at, and a better view of the gamestate, where having that out in the open is useful for reads like the Zaelix one and for organizing town. But tbh this section is NAI, since this is the type of thing she's been against in other games. This is more of a personal comment/opinion.

That's kinda it tbh? The points Shadell makes are overall agreeable but don't make me feel super strong in either direction. And at this point I'm just going to ignore the done too much to be scum due to advancing the gamestate enough to be actively detrimental read. On read back there's less here than I thought and while I'm not scum reading her, that first section isn't enough for that, I'm not sure I can town read her with this gamestate being a rough look for all 3 of us by this point. So null.

And I have a kind of recent read of Pyrros town from null. Namely, look at his recent posts. They aren't good in terms of content but that doesn't matter. What I like here is his mindset and how vehemently he defended his views + the reasoning for it. I think that as scum he doesn't go on an impassioned section on why he's right in terms of how he's doing it and theory rather than just saying something minor and/or deflecting. Its something that could easily be received poorly in his position as the most null player in the game from most views, which is something he or a scum mate would recognize.

So I basically am town reading IH and Pyrros, where I think that scum are within Meso/Shadell/you as of yet. I uh, just am having a lot of issues with actually muddling out who the two are in this scenario, which is a concern. But this is where I'm at now.

@Pawn Lelouch @Cyricubed so, dumb idea or not so dumb idea, but I'm worried about the extent of mid-game fatigue we have going, and my inclination is to try to do something to shake things up. Specifically, I was thinking of asking every player to tell us the best reasons to scumread themselves, but I'm a bit worried on what this might entail.

Dumb idea for the same type of reasons that I said Pyrros doing posts about himself were dumb. Just a waste of time that won't give actionable info.
 
Just posting to make not of it:

Day ended 55 Minutes ago as of D4 start post. Plz No post past this point.
 
Day Four Ends
Day Four Ends

Grandfather Clock seemed quite vexed, so the story goes, when the crowd decided to exile nobody today. Still, he harumphed and was forced to admit he had to follow this by the rules he had set himself.

Nobody was exiled to the dungeon today.

Night four begins. Night four ends in 48 hours at
 
Day Five Start
Day Five Start

Another day, another missing mimic. A smashed open chest is the only sign found of the missing mimic.

@Pawn Lelouch, Jeremy the Chest Mimic, has been [Smashed and killed].

The mimics feel tense and concerned, and the day begins slowly and in suspense.

Day five has begun. Day five ends in 72 hours at . I*may* extend the day to adjust end times due to the massively delayed start here, but no guarantees yet.
 
First things first, town must be essentially unanimous today. If we vote 4 bodies on the person voted, then they can vote self-preservation. If scum, that person only has 1 more who can swap to save them (and if town, we lose anyway =( ), but if town splits 1/2 (or 1/1/1), scum can and will steal the vote at the last minute. So it's absolutely vital that we end the day on a consensus everyone agrees with here.



Quick, so Pawn and Nictis are very clear NK targets as both are very strong, well-known players. Shalmoa was a solid neutral kill, being TR pretty widely (with Pawn as the notable exception.) Zaea, however, is a newer player who wasn't likely seen as a core threat to scum, and who was being fairly widely scumread. We've been back and forth over the NK there a few times, but we know 7 players aren't scum now. Based on this, and the Zaea kill as a bit of a standout among the night-kills, who do people think would have really stood to gain cover from murdering Zaea instead of a more prominent/townread player?
 
I*may* extend the day to adjust end times due to the massively delayed start here, but no guarantees yet.

I don't think this'd help town much actually. I feel like we've been suffering a lot of burnout with the D3 extension and the relative lack of hard information for town to go on. A potentially delayed day with 5 people risks a lot of people deferring their posting until later and then leaving D5 as a bunch of crickets and town needs to be pulling out the stops and building momentum to actually solve this right now.
 
I don't think this'd help town much actually. I feel like we've been suffering a lot of burnout with the D3 extension and the relative lack of hard information for town to go on. A potentially delayed day with 5 people risks a lot of people deferring their posting until later and then leaving D5 as a bunch of crickets and town needs to be pulling out the stops and building momentum to actually solve this right now.
Consequences of rushing out a day start when I realize I'm late.

All right, I'm going to ask that people, in their role PMs, vote as to whether I should leave day length as is, or reduce it by like 5~ hours to get back to a more similar start time tk what we had. There was talk about reducing day length anyways.

Please keep your opinions on this in the role PM for the simple reason I don't want people trying to divine alignments off that. I'll be able to act on the collective opinions regardless.
 
Distancing from the flip? Althought frankly I don't think distancing would be a strong tactic to choose here but that's a wine debate on playstyle in this situation. On review it feels forced. I understand the secondary wagon logic however I don't think we ever had a solid case on anybody else. A lot of my suspicion on you was tied to Yun flipping scum, which means pushing for you would have been bad reversed logic. Shalmoa had some stated suspicions but nothing solid either.
Could you break this down a bit for me. I can't tell if you were saying you thought the secondary wagon was forced, or that reading it as suspicious is forced?
 
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