Goddess' Shooting Star (Black★Rock Shooter X Persona 4)

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Menthewarp said:
I'm just picking random choices here, because what we are dealing with here is an unknown-unknown in the format of an alien language magic system, and we need more data to create a working model.

Either we get more data the hard way, or we ask for help.

And don't tell me this isn't a magic system because it's just emotions, that's literally what neuromancy is.
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Um... Was this intended for a different thread?
 
[X] [Lunch] You'll see Narukami and the others after school to go into the TV World again, you can talk then. For now, you'll…
-[x] Go find Kanji, there's still something about him that doesn't make sense and you want to know why.

Kanji's a bro, let's see if we can't get him to crack open a little bit.

[X] [Text] Sure! But uh… it might be a bit dangerous
 
catDreaming said:
Um... Was this intended for a different thread?
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I can see how you could read it that way, it is a bit vague.

Otherselves are literally an all new magic system that appears to share a syntax library with the SMT firmware used to host the Persona application software, but every bit of data thus far provided by an Otherself has been adamant that it's only an illusory allusion to convergent evolution of emotional entities.

Just as persona magic is the reprogramming of the SMT noosphere operating system and daemon codebase libraries to execute the manifestation of egomorphic entities and vice versa, neuromancy is the reprogramming of emotional operating systems to execute the manifestation of fate and vice versa.

The vice versa emphasis is important, as Otherselves are already a system of looping dependencies of the same level as Persona magic and Neuromancy, fundamentally sourcing operating functions from their own codebase libraries sourced from their user, and yet also the otherselves themselves executing version updates upon their own user and other users as well.

We know that the codebase for Otherselves can be damaged or even destroyed by their own user, more fundamentally than by deliberate act of malice by another Otherself, and as such our choices are a mixed selection of "something changed! You don't know what" and "something changed? You don't know why" and "nothing changed. That You Can See.", so currently we are forced to confront analysis paralysis by resorting to praying that we randomly pick the right choices for sheer lack of data as flow of events push us to change.

The biggest takeaway here is that, by her very nature, Black Rock Shooter will not stop us from accidentally destroying, accidentally desyncing, or accidentally crippling her.
Black Rock Shooter may try to warn us, but if that result was we wanted by virtue of our choices, then Black Rock Shooter's nature prevents her from even wanting to deny that want, she fundamentally cannot deny that want by dint of her very reason for existence, especially if it is a want desired in ignorance, from choices made under mistaken premises.
 
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I'm having a hard time parsing that. I think you're saying that Otherselves are superficially similar to Shadows/Persona, but in point of fact we don't know much about them. They could be just as similar as they appear, or they could be fundamentally different in multiple ways. And given what little we've seen, the latter is more likely. So trying to apply Persona logic/magic is going to lead to false conclusions.

Is that correct?
 
Nottheunmaker said:
I'm having a hard time parsing that. I think you're saying that Otherselves are superficially similar to Shadows/Persona, but in point of fact we don't know much about them. They could be just as similar as they appear, or they could be fundamentally different in multiple ways. And given what little we've seen, the latter is more likely. So trying to apply Persona logic/magic is going to lead to false conclusions.

Is that correct?
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Yes! Perfectly! Thank you! 🥰
 
They do, however, exist in the same universe (here). So the same underlying principles should apply, at some level.

This doesn't necessarily mean much. The same underlying principles produce both bicycles and songbirds, and those are known to behave differently in many relevant ways, but when it comes to Shadows and Otherselves... their surface similarity is likely to reflect some level of connection, I feel. If for no other reason than doing otherwise would be mean, when the BRS authors so clearly were Persona fans.
 
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  • Voting
    • Scheduled vote count started by Spectral Waltz on Mar 14, 2022 at 12:53 AM, finished with 30 posts and 19 votes.
    [lunch] [text] Default
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  • Voting
    • Incurred Tension
  • Threadmarks
    • [X] [Lunch] You'll see Narukami and the others after school to go into the TV World again, you can talk then. For now, you'll…
    -[X] Who's that blue-haired boy(?) and why do you keep seeing them eyeing you in the halls?

    [X] [Text] Sure! But uh… it might be a bit dangerous

    -------
    ​
    Thursday, April 21st, 2011 – Yasogami High School – Noon
    ​

    Y. Koutari and M. Kuroi
    • [13:04]
      You have to check with Yomi
      first, she's coming that week
      as well

      [13:04]
      Oh? Maybe I should wait a
      week first then! :p​

      [13:05]
      …

      [13:05]
      I get it I get it, I'll check.

      But Mato, stay safe okay?

      I haven't heard much about
      what's going on out there
      but I know it's bad.​

      [13:06]
      I'll do my best


    You stow your phone and look up, then blink as your eyes meet a deeper stare. Intense and laser-focused, as though attempting to dissect you in that instant before their gaze breaks from your own. Turning their head away to hurry past you as they give a hurried little half-bow and a muttered 'excuse me'.

    "Is something wrong?"

    The question is out of your mouth before you can think to stop it, your mind accelerating. That feeling of being watched is familiar to you, something about this… Boy? They pause, looking back at you, the sense of being analyzed is diminished, but there's still something about them that makes you swear you've seen them before. Your focus drifts slightly, a boy's uniform, a voice that sounds like it's slightly more affected than natural though..? Like how Yomi tries to sound more mature sometimes.

    "Ah? Sorry, it's nothing important, I didn't mean to stare." Your eye itches slightly but you push that to the back of your mind, trying to find the thread. You've seen them before, you know they've been around…

    "You're in first year like me right? Class… 3?" You take a shot in the dark and offer an introduction with a little bow, "Class 2, Kuroi Mato."

    "I arrived in Inaba recently actually and thus have not been assigned a classroom, but I will be transferring in soon." They hesitate for a split second before answering and then bowing in return. Shirogane Naoto. A pleasure to make your acquaintance Kuroi-san."

    You know you've heard that name before, right at the tip of your tongue-!"

    "Shi-ro-ga-ne…" You murmur the syllables back to yourself before it clicks, "like the Detective Prince?"

    The boy (you're more sure of their gender now) outright stumbles at that, their composure dropping for a single instant before they recover and nod hurriedly. "Yes, like that. Please excuse me."

    They turn on their heel and pace quickly for the stairs as the realization hits you, "not 'like the Detective Prince', that is the Detective Prince."

    'Prince'?

    "Yes?"     Black Rock Shooter's query catches you off guard, but your other self refuses to elaborate. Merely humming as her presence goes quiet again

    You're pretty sure it's them anyways, but while you're still assembling the pieces Naoto is already hurrying down the stairs. The thought of chasing after them is there but pieces of the conversation linger in your mind. He just arrived, transferring in. What would bring someone like him to Inaba?

    And to that question, there is only one immediate answer. The Murders.

    It sounds silly, far too coincidental, but at the same time it all fits with what you know…

    Then you realize that lunchtime is still ticking away, and have to hurry to find somewhere to eat. Questions still lingering in your mind.

    =======
    ​
    Thursday, April 21st, 2011 – Yasogami High School – After School
    ​
    The meeting spot is the same place as last time but the atmosphere today is different. Narukami greets you fairly normally as you approach but Chie is quiet and wary while Yosuke fidgets. Yesterday… You only saw flashes of what happened but you know there was a fight. Both your Other Self and the Black Knights, a chaotic melee.

    "I… Sorry about not coming to help you Yesterday."

    Narukami's eyes meet yours consideringly, Yosuke shifts awkwardly. You take a deep breath and muster your courage.

    "I fell asleep the moment I got home, had some strange dreams, you were all fighting, and there were a lot of those Knights…" You trail off, already feeling stupid as the silence deepens but refusing to look away. "…it was mostly just… Flashes, little snippets, but… It looked bad."

    "Did you see your-. The Other you?" Not trusting your voice, you nod. You didn't see her, not really, but you know whose perspective you watched from. Finally Narukami breaks eye contact, looking around and then giving a deep sigh.

    "Let's go to Daidara's first, I'm not sure we should talk about this out in the open here."


    =======
    ​
    Daidara's
    ​

    "Wooaahhh… Hey Gramps, why'd you never make me something this coo-oo…" Yosuke trails off as the old Blacksmith fixes him with a look that makes your hands tremble even without being directed at you.

    The walk over here had been tense and quiet, leaving you feeling even more isolated from the group as you approached the shop. Yosuke's excitability as you drew the weapon the Blacksmith made for you made you want to cringe as always but at the moment it was preferable to Chie's open wariness or the evaluating look in Narukami's eyes.

    The sword is long, longer than you expected really while its hand-and-a-half hilt has a slight flare at the pommel to counterbalance the weight. Forged with a very slight curve to its blade, the metal taken from the TV world alloyed with the steel gives it a dark and glossy look

    Interesting…

    It's not perfectly familiar and you knew that from the moment you drew it. While you can't discern exactly how it's wrong, this sword in your hands is subtly different from the sword you remember-

    "A sword alone won' be enough."

    The Old Blacksmith's eyes meet your own and your question dies in your throat.

    "Whatever you're facing, a sword won't win the battle on its own." He repeats himself.

    Your eye aches and itches as you struggle for words.

    "Even… Even so," you manage to force out a reply after a long moment. "Thank you."

    His head tilts slightly, but you simply sheathe the sword and make your way towards the counter to pay the other half of the labor cost, ignoring the whispering that breaks out behind you.

    "The heck was that about?"

    "I don't know, but it looked personal."

    "You think it has to do with… Y'know…"

    Narukami shushes Yosuke and you hand over the money, bowing again to the old man as he bows in return before turning around and moving towards the door only to stop as you catch yourself.

    "Uhm… Yosuke… Would you mind if I put this in your bag until we get inside?"

    In spite of everything, the tension is easing bit by bit and while the walk down to Junes is quiet, the silence lacks the oppressive quality that hounded your little group thus far.

    "Rock…"

    Yeah?

    "Why     did you fight?" There's a sense in the back of your mind that your Other Self is somehow distracted, but the question brings her back to the fore for a moment. The attention from that place at the back of your mind returning to you as she considers her answer.

    …I didn't want to see them get hurt.

    "Woah!"

    "Hup!"

    You stumbled at Rock's words, and the sudden sensation of a forearm bracing you and a hand on your shoulder both trying to keep you from tripping outright pull you out of the contemplative headspace.

    "Ah…" You search for words and find none, falling back on an apology. "Sorry, lost in thought."

    "S'alright." Yosuke declares casually, while Narukami simply lets his arm fall and turns away, looking up at the storefront.

    "We're here."

    =======
    ​
    Yukiko's Castle – 6th Floor
    ​


    Where three days ago you traveled softly and cautiously through the lower levels of the castle today you moved at a brisk pace, fighting your way past the Shadows that barred your way and up the levels one by one.

    "Is it just me or does this place make no sense…" For the moment you and Yosuke were leading, the latter griping as you make your way up the steps to the next floor. "I mean, The castle wasn't this tall outside was it?"

    You shrug, peering around the corner warily. You've seen no sign of Black Rock Shooter around but you can feel a sort of presence from her lingering at the edges of perception, enough to make you wonder what she's up to, an uncertainty that swiftly turns to worry the longer it persists.

    Fortunately, there is no Other You around the corner. Unfortunately, there are a pair of Black-Armored Knights astride their horses. Seemingly more and more common as you ascend the floors.

    "Is something wrong guys?!"

    You can't help but jump as Teddie's voice sounds far too loudly and Yosuke whips around, shushing them. "The knights respawned!"

    "Re-what? You mean they're back?" Chie's voice goes from confusion to alarm as she picks up on his meaning.

    "But the one on the last floor didn't." Narukami creeps up and peers around the corner himself to confirm before settling back, hand going to his chin thoughtfully, "interesting… We haven't seen the other Mato either though…"

    Teddie shivers visibly, "other Mato is scary…"

    "I… Guys, focus." To your surprise, Chie is the one who cuts of the tangent before it can get under way. "We're here to rescue Yukiko remember? So let's figure out how we're gonna get past these guys and reach the next floor!"

    You take a deep breath, and nod. The same matchup as shattered your borrowed sword. You can't help but feel excited at the chance to test yourself against the same enemy with the new blade. The previous fights showed that it's clearly a better weapon to you, suited in a way the last one wasn't, but this is a chance to really put that to the test.

    "The obvious answer would be to split up two and two while Teddie supports us, but…" Narukami looks to you and takes a breath. "With that sword… Do you think you can keep one of the knights distracted for say… Ninety seconds?"

    "Alone?" The prospect is terrifying and tantalizing all at once.

    "We'll surround the other one and bring it down quickly. All you need to do is keep one knight's focus for that long. Do you think you can do it?" You hesitate, you have faith that this time you won't lose your weapon but their strength and power is…

    [ ] You'll do it. You'll keep the second Knight busy while the others bring the first one down.
    [ ] No, ninety seconds is practically forever in a fight and you don't know if you can hold out that long. Split two-and-two instead.
    -[ ] With Yosuke
    -[ ] With Chie
    -[ ] With Narukami

    A/N: This both does and does not feel rushed when I read it back to myself, not sure what to do about it honestly, so I'm just posting in the interests of moving things forward...
     
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    • [X] You'll do it. You'll keep the second Knight busy while the others bring the first one down.

    Our not being here last night might have delayed things, and risked the person they're rescuing. Even if Black Rock Shooter did help. We'll make sure the Knight's held for 90 seconds.
     
    [X] You'll do it. You'll keep the second Knight busy while the others bring the first one down.

    90 seconds in a fight is a big ask, no question there. But Mato is rested, has her new sword, and has a persona she hasn't used yet. She can do it.
     
    Spectral Waltz said:
    "A sword alone won' be enough."

    The Old Blacksmith's eyes meet your own and your question dies in your throat.

    "Whatever you're facing, a sword won't win the battle on its own." He repeats himself.
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    This line feels ominous. Especially considering the current vote. The question is if he meant the sword alone won't be enough, and we also need the help of our friends and comrades to win, or if he meant it won't be enough and we also need a big-ass gun.
    ...Or he could mean both. Both is probably the answer.

    [X] No, ninety seconds is practically forever in a fight and you don't know if you can hold out that long. Split two-and-two instead.
    -[X] With Chie
     
    From what I vaguely remember on a wiki crawl, the Blacksmith isn't normal. He might not even be human. So there's definitely some weight to his words.

    I'm coming around to going two on one each. We do still have the actual kidnapping victim to save, and we'll probably have a better shot there if we aren't half dead. Those knights were no joke, BRS clowning on them not withstanding.

    [X] No, ninety seconds is practically forever in a fight and you don't know if you can hold out that long. Split two-and-two instead.
    -[X] With Yosuke

    Yosuke is our best bet. We've interacted with him the most and we've been paired up at the front for this dungeon crawl. We can work together. That leaves Narukami with Chie, which is also good. Powerful generalist and a support type, if I remember correctly.
     
    [X] No, ninety seconds is practically forever in a fight and you don't know if you can hold out that long. Split two-and-two instead.
    -[X] With Yosuke

    Splitting up two and two seems advisable. We've interacted with Yosuke the most.
     
    [X] No, ninety seconds is practically forever in a fight and you don't know if you can hold out that long. Split two-and-two instead.
    -[X] With Yosuke
     
    [X] No, ninety seconds is practically forever in a fight and you don't know if you can hold out that long. Split two-and-two instead.
    -[X] With Yosuke
     
    [X] No, ninety seconds is practically forever in a fight and you don't know if you can hold out that long. Split two-and-two instead.
    -[X] With Yosuke
     
    Can... can any two of the others take down one of these on their own? I feel that's an important question. Since they asked us to do this, I suspect they can't; or they think there's a good chance they can't.

    I think there's also a good chance we can't stall one for ninety seconds. Like Mato says, ninety seconds is an eternity. It would be difficult to just stall it, and not kill it, in that much time — if we aren't already losing that fight. However- Mato is good at losing fights. More concretely, she's very, very hard to kill in this place. I'm not sure why that is true, when the others aren't so hardened, but she's nearly as difficult to truly break as Black Rock Shooter herself.

    Probably a matter of whatever trick of Nyarly's led to Shooter existing in the first place.

    ...ahem. I feel like, even if she fails, it's still going to be the most interesting option. I don't think it's the safest one, or the most likely to suceed — at least at not getting us hurt — though perhaps it's the one most likely to have us rescue Yukiko, and it's been long enough that her situation is starting to get risky. We do not, in fact, only need to stall this one knight. We need to defeat both.

    Anyway, I think it's a good idea to vote based on what you'll find most interesting. In my case, that's this.

    [X] You'll do it. You'll keep the second Knight busy while the others bring the first one down.
     
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    [X] You'll do it. You'll keep the second Knight busy while the others bring the first one down.
     
    [X] No, ninety seconds is practically forever in a fight and you don't know if you can hold out that long. Split two-and-two instead.
    -[X] With Yosuke
     
    Baughn said:
    Can... can any two of the others take down one of these on their own? I feel that's an important question. Since they asked us to do this, I suspect they can't; or they think there's a good chance they can't.
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    This isn't just a matter of injury and survival, it's also a race against the clock.
     
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