Goddess' Shooting Star (Black★Rock Shooter X Persona 4)

This is slightly complicated by the fact BRS is Mato, but I think everyone involved would get what I mean.

I skipped most of the thread's discussion in favor of getting caught up ASAP, but from my reading of the update where BRS kicked Mato's ass, she approved of her not using her Persona, but disapproved of Mato saying "I don't want to do this".
So I think the best way to get BRS's full support is to fight without relying on our Persona, or relying on it only when absolutely necessary, while also accepting we really do want to fight.
Understandable, if always a bit irritating when its been discussed already.

The problem with this line of reasoning is it make Mato bend over backwards for BRS.

The way forward in Persona is self-awareness, self-acceptance, and then self-enlightenment. Mato is aware of the Violence her soul wishes to dance to, but how she accepts it is something we're going through. And should not necessarily be a quick thing either anyway. You need to take breaks working through trauma- and that is exactly what she's confronting and working through.

Bending over backwards to meet Rock's demands is... I can't remember the term for that kind of person. That need for attention.

Also, note the three steps I said above relating to Persona (the series)? All of them are "self." Mato needs to want to do this for herself even if Rock flicked the pebble to start the avalanche to refer back to whichever post it was on the last page or two.

Mato is afraid of herself. And that's okay. Learning to let that fear be caution instead of letting it paralyze her will be an undertaking, and that's okay too.

I also said this in the past couple of pages somewhere, but if BRS wants Mato to get over her fear, then BRS should be trying to understand the source of that and how it affects Mato. And if she can't do to her nature, which very well might be possible with how inherent and core Violence is to an Otherself, then just knowing that she doesn't understand, but that there's still a problem there will, hopefully, be enough.

Also, even if Rock dislikes the Persona (and there's a good chance she's biased anyway if she doesn't like her half/reflection of it) then too bad. Its a part of the equation now, if we wanted this to be a story of just Mato and Rock then we shouldn't have shaken her hand-

But we did.

The Persona is there now and its not going anywhere.

@Baughn Moon Halo came on when I started typing this. :V
The power has already been given, it is simply a choice of whether or not to make use of it.
>Get Magic
>Proceed to never use it

>Win Lottery
>Throw the money in the trash

etc.
 
The entirety of my thought process for this vote was "BRS smiled when we dismissed the Persona card and we should probably try to get along with her, plus I'd find it interesting if Mato spooked everyone by being the only one to not use magic Stand powers in a setting where you really need a Stand to fight".

I'm too new to the quest and I haven't done my due diligence and read the whole thread yet, so I'm not trying to make any arguments to sway the vote, or basing my vote on anything but my superficial impressions and ideas.

The comments in response have been very interesting, though!

This statement is very strange to me. A Persona is very explicitely a manifestation of personal power. It all comes from within after all.

Which is, naturally, why it's so dangerous to the user.
I just think getting up close and smashing someone's skull in displays more personal power than using magic to achieve effectively the same result.

But you are absolutely right that a Persona is a very personal form of power. Just not personal in the sense I was thinking of when deciding what to vote.
Understandable, if always a bit irritating when its been discussed already.

The problem with this line of reasoning is it make Mato bend over backwards for BRS.

The way forward in Persona is self-awareness, self-acceptance, and then self-enlightenment. Mato is aware of the Violence her soul wishes to dance to, but how she accepts it is something we're going through. And should not necessarily be a quick thing either anyway. You need to take breaks working through trauma- and that is exactly what she's confronting and working through.

Bending over backwards to meet Rock's demands is... I can't remember the term for that kind of person. That need for attention.

Also, note the three steps I said above relating to Persona (the series)? All of them are "self." Mato needs to want to do this for herself even if Rock flicked the pebble to start the avalanche to refer back to whichever post it was on the last page or two.

Mato is afraid of herself. And that's okay. Learning to let that fear be caution instead of letting it paralyze her will be an undertaking, and that's okay too.

I also said this in the past couple of pages somewhere, but if BRS wants Mato to get over her fear, then BRS should be trying to understand the source of that and how it affects Mato. And if she can't do to her nature, which very well might be possible with how inherent and core Violence is to an Otherself, then just knowing that she doesn't understand, but that there's still a problem there will, hopefully, be enough.

Also, even if Rock dislikes the Persona (and there's a good chance she's biased anyway if she doesn't like her half/reflection of it) then too bad. Its a part of the equation now, if we wanted this to be a story of just Mato and Rock then we shouldn't have shaken her hand-

But we did.

The Persona is there now and its not going anywhere.
This is way more thought than went into my vote.
Still, I honestly appreciate you taking the time to write this out because it helps me understand the quest better.
 
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The entirety of my thought process for this vote was "BRS smiled when we dismissed the Persona card and we should probably try to get along with her
The QM actually poked us a bit on that vote because it wasn't immediately obvious, but fighting is, literally, Otherselves primary language.

That fight was BRS talking to Mato, not their Persona.

Which makes sense. Personas are representations of the masks people wear to deal with the outside world and each other, except Mato and BRS are reflections of each other, probably even outright parts of what was formerly one single person. There shouldn't be any mask between them.

Or, well... hmm... that was the wrong way to put it... They're psychically connected twins, using their Personas on each other means they're trying to hide something/run away/?

Bah. Point being the Mask being between them would not be a thing more often than not.

Also I suspect Otherselves don't naturally have Personas at all, or at least barely ever bother wearing them. Their method of communication is too primal to really hide behind masks.

But that's an opinion/idle thought, don't have much basis for that statement (yet).

So, once more, I find that BRS might have more than a little personal bias against the Persona.

Also definitely one of my weaker posts. rip.
 
Otherselves cannot have personas on their own, but the human self they are attached to can gain that power, and since the otherself and the human self and both the same [Self]...

Well, I am loving the speculation, but at this point I've probably indirectly spoiled at least a few things, so I'm going to limit what I say from here on out, at least for now.

Besides, the vote is closing in eight hours, so soon enough I'll need to be writing again. Last chance to make any changes you want!

Next up: Fight Scene~
 
Building off of this, I'm beginning to rethink my vote. Black Rock Shooter has her own way of doing things, and that's good. That works for her.

But while Mato and BRS are technically the same person, they are sperate and they are different. Rock started as the things Mato didn't want to be, the parts of herself she didn't like. It's too simple to say she's what Mato isn't, but it's not a wholly invalid interpretation. And there are parts of Mato that might be better off in Rock. There is a reason Mato is afraid of her capacity for violence. What Rock wants for Mato isn't always going to be good for Mato. For all that she knows of Mato and her life, the life Rock lives is very, very different.

Plus this is just a fight. This isn't between us and an Otherself. We're not saying anything to this shadow, not making a point or are interested in what it thinks. It's attacking us and we want it dead or gone. Whatever stops it from hurting us and our friends is the right move. And we're on something of a rescue mission, we shouldn't be messing around trying to impress Rock. If we come back into this world to get stronger that'd be aces, but right now someone's in danger.

And as was lightly pointed out, we are taking on an armored knight. While I'm up for smacking around an half inch of steel with a sword and bare fist, Mato's hands probably aren't. On a tactical level, would be wise to check our other options.


[X] Break the card, call your Persona to the fight.
 
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Fair points all around. I'd also admittedly forgotten that the foe was a knight in full armor (somehow). Where BRS had wanted to 'talk' with Mato before, this battle is more decidedly outward. For my little bit of speculation as to how Mato, BRS, and a Persona could coexist and interlock...
I speculated before that Mato's Persona could be BRS with different loadouts based on her (swappable) Arcana. But if Mato isn't a Wild Card, then her Persona could very well be a fusion between the aspects of Mato that she doesn't like (I.E., some amount of BRS), some parts of BRS that didn't help her survive and fight (I.E., some parts of Mato), and some parts of what each of them want to become. Even if the Persona becomes a third voice in the discussion, it's not going to be completely on Mato or BRS' side, in that case.

Anyway, as I have finished convincing myself while writing this...

[X] Break the card, call your Persona to the fight.
 
I'm sticking to my guns, I guess. All puns intended.

I want Rock to show up. I'm not trying to have Mato handle everything on her own, or somehow impress her 'sister', or anything of the sort — although I would enjoy it if I could one day remove the scare quotes.

I just feel it would be better if she joins the fight while Mato is synchronised with her and already fighting, instead of Mato asking for help like a… normal teenager. The inside of her soul is an eternal battlefield; it just needs to be aimed outwards. I realise this could become a personality-altering event, and I'm okay with that.

Anyhow. Reiterating:

[X] Raise your sword, fight with your own strength
- [X] And if this brings Rock closer, then it's time to welcome her.
 
Vote closed
Scheduled vote count started by Spectral Waltz on Nov 24, 2021 at 11:50 PM, finished with 66 posts and 28 votes.
 
Brute Force
[X] Raise your sword, fight with your own strength.

A split second passes in an eternity. No one moves, no one breathes.

The horse rears as screaming fills the once-silent hall and you push yourself into motion, an explosive step forwards that makes the ground vanish underfoot in a blur of red. Some part of you is screaming in panic, another laughs wildly as you kick off the ground and shoot upwards, swinging your sword towards the knight's neck only for your arm to jar painfully as the blade skates off the thick plating.

Caught in mid-air, you can only watch as the hulking Shadow begins to retaliate, one mailed fist coming around to swat you down before a barrage of green waves buffets him from behind. Making him stumble just long enough for you to drop to the floor and roll, praying that the horse' hooves don't come down on your head. For a moment, the world becomes a confused blur of red and black, shouts and screams, and then you're forced to a stop by the corridor wall and manage to reorient yourself enough to see the chaos that's erupted in your wake.

Chie is dancing back and forth next to the horse, launching jumping kicks at its flanks to make the beast stumble back bit by bit while the knight's sword stabs down at her in retaliation. On the far side of it, Yu and Yosuke are shadowed by two larger figures, Personas unleashing elemental fury from their outstretched hands. A fireball crashes into the Knight's side and dissipates into nothing on a field of red energy. A gust of wind buffets them a moment later, then a bolt of lightning draws a distorted roar from beneath the knight's helm.

"Hiya-ah!" Chie stumbles back, caught in the shoulder mid-leap as the sword begins to glow a sickly green. "Oh… What the…"

As the Knight pulls back for a second strike, you lunge back in, brute force strength and speed forcing that glowing green blade to one side. Your short sword's steel screams in protest as sparks fly, from the point of contact and Chie ducks back shakily, the veins in her hands starting to darken with a sickly glow. "I-is this poison? Oh no no no-"

"Jiraya! Give me a Dia!" Green sparkles surround Chie, driving back the wrongness but then you have your own concerns to worry about as the Knight's horse rears again, kicking out at you and forcing you to dodge away and stab upwards.

Luck more than skill is what sees your swordpoint slipping past the Horse' armor and into the flesh beneath, making it spasm and scream again. The knight's free hand grasping the reins as it tries to stay on. The red glow that surrounded it fading away as it gets its mount under control.

"Mato! Switch!" Yu's voice makes you look up and the two of you move, slipping around flailing hooves to exchange places, letting the silver-haired boy get to Chie. "Keep it busy!"

"On it! Let's go Jiraya!" Yosuke answers without hesitation as you raise your sword, the lanky yellow form of his Persona reaching down as he does a strange little hop backwards, Planting his feet on one oversized hand. "<Fastball special>!"

Were it not the midst of a fight, you would facepalm at his absolutely atrocious English.

As it is you're too busy chasing after Yosuke as his Persona hurls him at the knight full force. Yosuke screams, seemingly caught-off guard by the suddenness of it all as he just barely manages to turn in mid-air to hit the horse feet first. The mount stumbles, the Knight nearly fumbles his sword, and then you're there trying to sneak another blow past the horse' armor only for your swordpoint to be turned away by the plating.

Above you Yosuke screams again, a wordless challenge in his voice as he stabs at the knight in a frenzy. Then he screams higher, pain entering the sound as that sword catches him in the arm even as he finally manages to get one of his daggers into the space between helm and gorget to sink shallowly into whatever flesh is beneath the plate.

Then he's falling and you have no more room to appreciate his accomplishment because you're the only thing that can stop him from hitting his head and that is a lot of blood, "Yu!"

"ORYAAA!" Chie unleashes a battlecry as she and her persona slam into the Knight like a missile just as it's beginning to glow red again, preventing the Shadow from going after Yosuke and giving you another opening to stab his horse, this time slipping by the armor once more with a sense of vicious satisfaction right up until the armored rider retaliates with lightning that strikes both of you and whites out your vision for a moment, forcing you to one knee to keep yourself from falling down. Distantly you can hear Teddie's shrill voice raised in a panicked shout but as the ringing in your ears clears your focus is consumed by the sight of a heavy black blade cleaving down towards your head-!

*CLANG* Your arms moved before your mind even really registered it, swatting the strike aside and lashing upwards at the knight's thigh only for his rising sword to knock your attack high and away before coming around into a horizontal slash aimed back at your neck. You can hear Narukami calling out another Persona in the background and Chie yelling something indistinct at Teddie but all your focus is on this moment. Dancing back from the vicious cut and then darting in once more, sinking your swordpoint into the unprotected back of the Knight's knee before a stab that glows with sickly green light once more narrowly misses you, drawing a line of fire across one cheek that burns with cold, a raw feeling of wrongness as your next attack jars your arms painfully when it bounces off the black plate once more.

"Sensei now! The red shield is going down!"

"Mato get back!"

For a split second you almost refuse, but as the red glow fades, understanding dawns. You dance backwards, one step, two steps, the knight's sword chases you with a vicious thrust that you're forced to deflect. Metal screams, something snaps, and then your vision fills with red and orange flames as the knight's horse rears in the midst of a spontaneous inferno. Tossing wildly as fire dances upon and around it, throwing its rider to the ground to land with a heavy *Thump* that resonates with metal plating.

For a moment, it looks as though it's trying to pick itself back up, but a second fireball finally puts an end to that. The Shadow Knight bursts into that same black fog, leaving behind mangled scraps of armor as its specter burns away in the fading flames.

For a long moment you watch the remains of the battleground. Scorched and trampled carpet, pockmarks where wayward elemental blasts struck the walls, and laying on the floor, a length of battered steel, its edge already blunted.

You look even further down and numbly take in the sight of the hilt still clutched in your hand. The blade snapped off barely two inches above the crossguard.

"Pixie, Dia." Narukami intones quietly, and a rush of warmth across your cheek pulls you from your reverie as the cut there closes with a flash of emerald light. You blink up at him in confusion, what about-

"Hey! That was cool as heck Mato-cha-auh!" Yosuke yelps as Chie punches him in the shoulder, "What the heck Chie I just healed that-OW!"

She punches him again and you sigh in relief. Everyone is a mess even with wounds healed, scorch marks on faces, smudges on clothes, and a tiredness in their eyes. Yet all of them are alive and standing.

[ ] [Yosuke] "It's okay Chie, we're friends right?"
[ ] [Yosuke] Say nothing, let those two do their thing.


"More importantly, what happened to your sword?" Narukami eyes his own Katana, inspecting it cautiously as you shrug. On the one hand, that thing was brand new only to snap like a toothpick as you strove against the knight. On the other hand, you're pretty sure that you were the one that went blade to blade against that monster's strength.

In the end, you simply shrug. "I don't know, it just… Gave."

"You're pretty strong Mato-ch… Mato-san!" Teddie declares with an exaggerated glance at Chie as she cracks her knuckles.

"Maybe Daidara can repair it?" Yosuke offers, a little wide-eyed at how the steel isn't so much bent or warped as just snapped by the force.

"I don't know…" You roll your shoulders a little uncomfortably, it served you well today, but this sword…

It wasn't your sword.

The thought lingers, and you wonder aloud, "do you think he'd do a custom order instead?"

While Yosuke contemplates the question Narukami seems to make up his mind.

"One way or another we're heading back for today. Hopefully that Shadow isn't one of the reforming ones." The silver-haired boy jerks his thumb at the remains. "If it is then we can hit it with fire from the start, should make things go a bit faster."

"Wait, already?" The words are out of your mouth before you can stop them. It makes sense on an intellectual level, you're down a weapon, there's a bone-deep tiredness in your body that's really starting to sink in now that the combat is over and done with, and the others don't look like they're doing much better. "But what about Amagi-san?"

Chie flushes and looks down, the other two shuffle uncomfortably. "I mean... She's in danger isn't she? Shouldn't we keep going?"

"We don't actually know how much further we have to go." Narukami opines reasonably.

"Y-yeah, and we won't do any good to her if we're d... Dead..." Chie adds. "I don't like... No, I really hate having to do this, but... We need to rest too. We'll be back in here tomorrow right?"

No one dares to deny that statement, and you suppose... While you don't like it either, you can understand. If Chie is willing to stop, then you should be too, right? Even if it feels wrong...

"Oh right! Before we go!" Yosuke breaks the mood as he hurries over to the remains, picking up the shards of black metal the knight left behind and generating an oddly familiar clinking sound. You take a couple steps closer, craning your neck to get a better look, and tilt your head at the sight of what's underneath.

Coins?

"Don't forget the loot!"

-------

Making your way back to the entrance proved unexpectedly easy, with Narukami holding up what honestly looked like a talisman from the local shrine and carefully enunciating what sounded like English as he tore it in two. Light flooding out to swallow the group and leave you just inside the castle gates when it cleared.

"Time to go home… You ready Teddie?"

"Uh-huh! Come back soon everyone!"

Everyone looks to Narukami and he thinks about it for a moment. "We'll probably be back tomorrow, maybe the day after. We can't just leave Yukiko trapped in there after all."

"You better!"

"Roger that partner." Yosuke turns to you, "hopefully we'll be back early enough that Daidara won't have closed up yet."

"Alrighty then! See every-bear-dy tomorrow!" The white rectangle opens, and the group step through one after another, vanishing from the TV-world back into reality. Last in the line, the thought comes to you as you step towards the portal.

Did we have fun today~?

[ ] [Mato] "Fun? We almost died!"
[ ] [Mato] "I don't know about you…"
[ ] [Mato] "No, that was terrifying."
[ ] [Mato] "…Yeah… I guess we kinda did…"
 
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[x] [Yosuke] "It's okay Chie, we're friends right?"
[x] [Mato] "…Yeah… I guess we kinda did…"


Yeah but tempted anyway
 
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[X] [Yosuke] Say nothing, let those two do their thing.
[X] [Mato] "Fun? We almost died!"
[X] [Mato] "Yeah! Bruised, Tired, and with more questions than when I started! So much fun!!"


I'm going to go with this. After all to Mato, there would still be a difference between a 'friendly' brawl and a fight for her life.
 
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[X] [Yosuke] Say nothing, let those two do their thing.
[X] [Mato] "I don't know about you…"
[X] [Mato] "Yeah! Bruised, Tired, and with more questions than when I started! So much fun!!"


Sarcastic Mato for the win.
 
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[x] [Yosuke] "It's okay Chie, we're friends right?"
[x] [Mato] "…Yeah… I guess we kinda did…"
 
[X] [Yosuke] "It's okay Chie, we're friends right?"
[X] [Mato] "I don't know about you..."


I don't know a lot about Chie and Yosuke's relationship honestly, and what I know about Chie comes from another Persona quest entirely. So... This seems like a way to get a start on seeing what it's like.
 
[X] [Yosuke] "It's okay Chie, we're friends right?"
[X] [Mato] "…Yeah… I guess we kinda did…"


I was going to go with one of the normal options, but reading through them they're all on a similar level of disagreement with just different phrasing. They're just treading water. If we want progress, invisitext is the way to go.

And of course we're friends with Yosuke, how couldn't you be friends with Yosuke? Anyone willing to do a Fastball Special is someone you want to be friends with.
 
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