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Gil and Hakuno's Excellent Adventure [Fate CCC/????]

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EnderofWorlds said:
It's canon that since Gilgamesh was created to be the perfect mix of man and god that he transcended both man and god. The gods kinda screwed the pooch on that one there.

And they did try the whole 'make a being to reign him in'; it's name was Enkidu and we all know how that goes. Basically, at that point the gods realized that kinda shot themselves in the foot there and fucked themselves over, and decided that it was safer to not end up making yet another being capable of kicking their asses.
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So....he was the fake that surpassed the original himself?
 
EnderofWorlds said:
It's still a Noble Phantasm, and by word of CCC Gilgamesh has all Noble Phantasms because all heroes are but imitations of him, therefore they had to have gotten their Noble Phantasms from him because they can't be NPs unless they came from Gil and blah blah Plato's Origin of Forms blah blah blah.
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Doesn't he not have Excalibur or Karna's thing?
 
EnderofWorlds said:
It's still a Noble Phantasm, and by word of CCC Gilgamesh has all Noble Phantasms because all heroes are but imitations of him, therefore they had to have gotten their Noble Phantasms from him because they can't be NPs unless they came from Gil and blah blah Plato's Origin of Forms blah blah blah.
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Excali-
And thus ends the Nasu debates, and starts the writing; so sayeth the GM.
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-fuck.


...Now that I read you Amaterasu reply, though, wow.
Best Amaterasu powerlevel I've seen, 10/10, would canonize.
 
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Theunderbolt said:
Is it?

*researches*

.....I-I was just testing to see who would notice!

:oops:
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Honestly, I wouldn't feel too bad about it. It's something that only gets like two lines and no one would really care to look up, since Caliburn is always 'sword not appearing in this story'.

Though I thought the Gate of Babylon only extended to legendary arms and skills, not legendary beasts... learn something new every day, I guess. Now I'm curious as to what the original Hippogriff would even look like.

... Does that mean the Gate of Babylon includes reality marble like Noble Phantasms too?
 
Illusion said:
Doesn't he not have Excalibur or Karna's thing?
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Not sure about Excalibur. AoG might give us some indirect insight with references to it being the "Last Phantasm?" Definitely makes me look forward to AoG's translation. I honestly wouldn't have been surprised if he had it since he had Gram and even Merodach which were precursors to Caliburn. We'll never really know until Nasu spells it out for us.

Gil's not sure if he has Karna's spear and wants to obtain it. To me, this reads like what he said back in the F/Zero Banquet of Kings. He mentioned his treasury exceeded his knowledge. That's how I read the Typemoon wiki entry.

Theunderbolt said:
Is it?

*researches*

.....I-I was just testing to see who would notice!

:oops:
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Pst... Edit it - eliminate the truth... :lol
 
BlackHadou said:
Though I thought the Gate of Babylon only extended to legendary arms and skills, not legendary beasts... learn something new every day, I guess. Now I'm curious as to what the original Hippogriff would even look like.
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Same here. Now I'm imagining Gil having the eggs of phantasmal creatures in GoB... Behold Gilgamesh - the First Pokemon Master.
 
Ok, after this will be the last stuff on the Nasu debates:

A Nation's Virtue said:
So in your verse, Gil has God Hand?
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He has the Noble Phantasm prototype that embodies the concept of God Hand, just like how he has Merodach and Gram which are the conceptual prototypes of Caliburn.

Illusion said:
Doesn't he not have Excalibur or Karna's thing?
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On Karna he says he doesn't know whether or not he has the spear because he can't recognize it, because it apparently wasn't used in his legend. That combined with the multiple times Gil's said that even he doesn't know how much shit he has means that he can have something, but just not realize he has it; hence why he decided to check in the core of the Moon Cell in this quest while you were doing whatever.

Meh said:
Except that it's said right there on the thing I quoted that they did make super tech in Ancient Babylonia thanks to ubersuper AoG Magic.

But, anyway, like I said and posted, things are contradictory, just go with the one you pick.
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It's not contradictory at all; ancient Babylonian magitech matched modern tech, he hoarded all of that shit, so when he ascended to the Throne of Heroes his Noble Phantasm became the embodiment of holding the 'Instruments of Hope' or whatever and retroactively added prototypes of humanity's achievements into it just like it does with the Noble Phantasms of every hero who came after him.
When Kiara gets indignant and asks him if he's capable of moving faster than light, Gil calls her an idiot, and that she should have known he'd have ships of light among his treasures. Then rants for a while about how just because he likes the classics doesn't mean he doesn't keep up with recent developments, and that if there's a technique that sends somebody to the edges of space then there will be a Noble Phantasm corresponding to it, because his what his vault really holds is the prototype of all human knowledge.

Basically, he has FTL starships because humans will at some point develop FTL starships. Or at least, are capable of it.
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From the same guy who translated the thing you posted. Basically, it's the same sort of conceptual fuckery that lets Lancelot grab something and turn it into his NP that he has mastery with as if he trained with it all his life, despite the actual thing the NP is based on is just him grabbing a tree branch and kicking some motherfucker's ass with it. So even though ancient Babylon magitech = modern day tech, there are still things that have yet to be conceived, yet will still be in GoB because humanity will eventually come up with and create them.

BlackHadou said:
Though I thought the Gate of Babylon only extended to legendary arms and skills, not legendary beasts... learn something new every day, I guess. Now I'm curious as to what the original Hippogriff would even look like.

... Does that mean the Gate of Babylon includes reality marble like Noble Phantasms too?
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It won't necessarily have the hippogriff or a beast itself inside, it'll just have a prototype equivalent that'll have similar abilities compared to the hippogriff. Likewise with things like skill/feat based NPs and RM NPs.

...Though I suppose he could have legendary beasts in there too since he has the exponential meat that creates more of itself the more it's eaten.
 
EnderofWorlds said:
From the same guy who translated the thing you posted. Basically, it's the same sort of conceptual fuckery that lets Lancelot grab something and turn it into his NP that he has mastery with as if he trained with it all his life, despite the actual thing the NP is based on is just him grabbing a tree branch and kicking some motherfucker's ass with it. So even though ancient Babylon magitech = modern day tech, there are still things that have yet to be conceived, yet will still be in GoB because humanity will eventually come up with and create them.
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Question on how your handling that. So does Gilgamesh always have said thing in the GoB or does it appear retroactively after its invented in the current age?
 
BlackHadou said:
Question on how your handling that. So does Gilgamesh always have said thing in the GoB or does it appear retroactively after its invented in the current age?
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He'll always have it in the Gate despite it not having been concieved of until much later, because he conceptually has 'the origin of mankind's wisdom'.

Basically, GoB is Akasha-lite: Humanity Edition.
 
EnderofWorlds said:
It won't necessarily have the hippogriff or a beast itself inside, it'll just have a prototype equivalent that'll have similar abilities compared to the hippogriff. Likewise with things like skill/feat based NPs and RM NPs.

...Though I suppose he could have legendary beasts in there too since he has the exponential meat that creates more of itself the more it's eaten.
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Pokeballs I tell you. Wait, if he did have those legendary beasts inside, wouldn't that make GoB one big pokeball?

Sorry, I'm having a crack moment.
 
BlackHadou said:
Well they would be the original, and perfect version of said drink, right? The jug probably is enchanted, too.

... Well, we'll probably find out. They'll probably go drinking after their fight, anyway.
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Yeah. After I wrote that post that same thought came to me. GoB is starting to feel like a mystical vendor that pops out the original template on Gil's call.
 
Wizard_Marshall said:
Yeah. After I wrote that post that same thought came to me. GoB is starting to feel like a mystical vendor that pops out the original template on Gil's call.
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Eh... I was thinking it was more like Castlevania myself, takes whatever form it sees fit, but you got it much better, I think.

Pity it only has Noble Phantasms and not skills. I wonder what form the prototype of Tsubame Gaeshi would have taken.

Anyway, one more question. Can Gilgamesh use the chains of heaven while Enkidu is summoned, given the implication that Enkidu is the chains?
 
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