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Mayne with elite, because it would be stupid if all of their flying machines let out the daemons. . .I feel like it once happened and then it was decided that only a few flying units, elite ones, actually are daemon engines.
Forging The Chaos Dwarfs
- Thread starter Dragonofelder
- Start date
- Worldbuilding
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- A Pit Of My Own Making
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I have a couple of answers for where the Dawi Zharr get their food stuffs.
While Zorn Uzkul aka the Great Skull lands are often inhospitable, alternative lore from Kislev suggests they have good growing soil. I've taken this to mean there are rare growing areas, but they shift around due to tectonic activity. The areas around the lakes are the most consistently fertile. There are numerous slave farms growing crops or herding some kind of cattle, that semi-often have to pack up and move to somewhere better
The Dwarfs have a long tradition of farming underground (I believe?) so the Dawi Zharr can still do that. They have large chambers in or under their ziggurats dedicated to industrial scale farming, often boosted in some way. Thought GMOs were bad? How about DMOs.
Trade of course, which probably requires some magical refrigeration for long trips.
Fishing, but probably not in or around the River Ruin.
And finally, yes, they probably eat slaves or other sentient creatures. But not Skaven or fellow Dawi Zharr. That's the law (so of course some break it)
Like both of them, and how the Rune of (The) Bull is the starter rune.
I like the idea of a... deamon-copter? Anyway, all Daemon Engines would require maintenance to ensure they don't break free, but this one could be noted with being especially flighty.
This is a Whirlwind.
Also this and it's twin, The Tenderiser, were designed by Thymbrin Snakebeard, the Sorcerer-Prophet with a snake for a beard.
I'm not sure what level of realism you want. Some level of Suspension of Disbelief is inherent in the project, and I have no problem with that.
With that said, let's talk about society. The aggregate of people living together in a more or less ordered community. The Chaos Dwarves live in a very distinctive environment, and that environment shapes and limits their society.
I like the theme of Hellish Capitalism. I think it makes for an excellent flavor, with the Conclave as an unholy shareholders' meeting. However, there are certain matters that should be considered when we think about the Chaos Dwarves.
They are a society under siege. No matter how many victories they win, no matter how many lands they conquer, the threat never goes away. In fact, their triumphs will only increase the danger.
As currently envisioned, the Chaos Dwarves have a population in the low thousands. If they are ruling a decent-sized empire, then they will have tens of thousands of slaves. Hundreds of thousands. Their entire society depends upon this enormous slave class, and the masters are a small, shrinking percentage of the population. The threat of a slave revolt is very real.
Under these circumstances, any serious internal conflict is a death sentence. Every Chaos Dwarf is a precious resource; no matter how brutal their rulers are, this is not a matter of sentiment. It is a question of mathematics. If the Chaos Dwarves cannot maintain their numbers- if they cannot present a united front- then they will perish.
So what holds them together? What bonds of loyalty bind their society into a cohesive whole? Why is a Chaos Dwarf willing to march to his death unflinching at his officer's command? What drives an engineer to risk his life in the pursuit of excellence?
And the Chaos Dwarves are only the pinnacle of the pyramid. They require an entire caste of slave overseers to manage their slaves. Given the extent of their empire, and the limits of their population, there will be military units with one Chaos Dwarf officer in charge. Or military units without any Chaos Dwarves at all. At this point, we have to question whether some of their slave overseers are simply junior partners that the Chaos Dwarves insist on calling "slaves" because of their ideological commitment to tyranny. If the commander of a distant outpost is technically the property of Warsmith Bazherak, but he only sees Bazherak once a year when the lord comes to demand his tribute, then we're entering the realm of legal fictions.
With that said, let's talk about society. The aggregate of people living together in a more or less ordered community. The Chaos Dwarves live in a very distinctive environment, and that environment shapes and limits their society.
I like the theme of Hellish Capitalism. I think it makes for an excellent flavor, with the Conclave as an unholy shareholders' meeting. However, there are certain matters that should be considered when we think about the Chaos Dwarves.
They are a society under siege. No matter how many victories they win, no matter how many lands they conquer, the threat never goes away. In fact, their triumphs will only increase the danger.
As currently envisioned, the Chaos Dwarves have a population in the low thousands. If they are ruling a decent-sized empire, then they will have tens of thousands of slaves. Hundreds of thousands. Their entire society depends upon this enormous slave class, and the masters are a small, shrinking percentage of the population. The threat of a slave revolt is very real.
Under these circumstances, any serious internal conflict is a death sentence. Every Chaos Dwarf is a precious resource; no matter how brutal their rulers are, this is not a matter of sentiment. It is a question of mathematics. If the Chaos Dwarves cannot maintain their numbers- if they cannot present a united front- then they will perish.
So what holds them together? What bonds of loyalty bind their society into a cohesive whole? Why is a Chaos Dwarf willing to march to his death unflinching at his officer's command? What drives an engineer to risk his life in the pursuit of excellence?
And the Chaos Dwarves are only the pinnacle of the pyramid. They require an entire caste of slave overseers to manage their slaves. Given the extent of their empire, and the limits of their population, there will be military units with one Chaos Dwarf officer in charge. Or military units without any Chaos Dwarves at all. At this point, we have to question whether some of their slave overseers are simply junior partners that the Chaos Dwarves insist on calling "slaves" because of their ideological commitment to tyranny. If the commander of a distant outpost is technically the property of Warsmith Bazherak, but he only sees Bazherak once a year when the lord comes to demand his tribute, then we're entering the realm of legal fictions.
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I will say that Chaos Dwarfs are bonded by spite and hate towards their cousins, with Hashut helping to connect with each other.
That's why, I believe, TWWH3 implies that Chorfs squabbling is focused on humiliating an opponent rather than killing them and why the punishment is Reassignment to Antarctica or Infernal Guard duty, not killing. There's just too few of them to waste Dawi-Zharr blood in infighting.
As for what binds them, they're still Dwarfs, with all the stupid determination and clan loyalty that carries with them. They may have replaced blood clans with corporate clans and their determination might be largely turned into spite, but I think it still is carried in their blood.
K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
- Location
- Belgium
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- He
That actually makes a lot of sense. I just disagree with that part.
Imo it's more likely to be at least tens of thousands, if not a couple hundred thousands. A few thousands is àn absurdly small number, barely able to support any kind of military at all.
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Fiendish Thrower:
Made in the mirror of the grudge thrower of their slave-bounded cousins, they created something more. . .fiendish, by trapping several violent daemons in round cages inscribed with runes making sure it is 'stable' enough, that when broken when they hit, it will let out violent daemons who will attack the closest living thing or object if nothing living is next to them. They will dissipate shortly because Dawi Zhar don't want to deal with the cleaning up some violent un-bound daemons! Bah!
Made in the mirror of the grudge thrower of their slave-bounded cousins, they created something more. . .fiendish, by trapping several violent daemons in round cages inscribed with runes making sure it is 'stable' enough, that when broken when they hit, it will let out violent daemons who will attack the closest living thing or object if nothing living is next to them. They will dissipate shortly because Dawi Zhar don't want to deal with the cleaning up some violent un-bound daemons! Bah!
So a pitiless obsession with production numbers, all to fulfill their Grand Destiny of sacking Karaz Ankor and sacrificing every Dawi to Hashut? I can see that.
I'm going with the OP's original idea. I think it works for the Chaos Dwarves as a slaver aristocracy, but YMMV.
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Btw, I presume there will be a faction that will be leaning more towards magic and they would try to make it possible for Dawi Zhar to have magic and not be turned into the stone/basalt because of that. And they could extend to create things that would let them use magic without turning their bodies.
K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
- Location
- Belgium
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- He
I had missed that part. But yeah, I think it's way too low to prevent any kind of slave revolt.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Not necessarily. It depends on how many slaves and how large the Dawi Zharr empire actually is. The Spartiates were outnumbered at least 5:1 by helots. IIRC, it's been suggested that ratio rose to like, 16:1 even in later periods. Low thousands is probably still too small without some kind of trusted underclass (perhaps the Dawi Zharr draw a distinction between 'true' Chaos Dwarfs and those who are unproven, based on age? Would make a nice counterpoint to how the Dwarfs themselves are a gerontocracy) but you can stretch it further than you might think.
The ratio of masters to slaves would be extreme. Haiti only had ten slaves for every free person; the Chaos Dwarves would be substantially worse.
I think it could work if you define "slave" broadly. I could imagine the hobgoblin tribes as auxilaries, trading slaves for dwarf-forged weapons. The Chaos Dwarves insist on calling them slaves because Hashut is the god of tyranny, but in practice the hobgoblins are junior partners, not a conquered people.
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At least with Spartans the slaves were not treated THAT bad, but Dawi Zhar do not treat slaves in the best way. Btw, what about hobgoblins? I doubt they are any different from normal goblins.
K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
- Location
- Belgium
- Pronouns
- He
Aren't they taller than normal gobbos?
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The Hobgoblins are a distinctive sub-species of steppe-dwelling Goblins who are found only within the lands of the Far East, in the rolling, untamed plains of the Eastern Steppes, where lies the domains of the great Hobgobla-Khan and his Hobgoblin Empire, the greatest Greenskin empire in the Known World.
The Hobgoblin race are considered traitors by all of their Greenskin cousins, including other Goblins, not because of their unbelievably treacherous nature, but by their specific betrayal of the Greenskin slave uprising that almost overthrow the rule of the Dawi-Zharr in their capital city of Zharr-Naggrund. This betrayal of their entire race and their inability to even trust each other has ensured that the Hobgoblins have become utterly enthralled to the brutal protection and patronage of the Chaos Dwarfs, making them in many ways the perfect slaves.
Though they are despised by their kin, the Hobgoblins are nonetheless the scourge of the steppes; feared, hated and powerful in almost equal measure. Hobgoblins are widely abhorred for their cruelty, wickedness and their appalling standards of hygiene. Few Imperial scholars would be perverse enough to note the important differences between an ordinary Goblin and a Hobgoblin, and the truth is that the two sub-species are really quite similar.
Anatomy:
Physically the Hobgoblins are slightly taller than other Goblins, almost as tall as a man, yet they still walk with a stooped posture. They have a smaller nose than other Goblins, needle-like teeth and a perpetual sneer.
Their red eyes are sly and shifty and almost all Hobgoblins have a distinct bony hump on their back, further emphasizing their slovenly slouch. This bony plate most likely evolved due to a single, defining characteristic of the race. Hobgoblins are infamously conniving and treacherous beyond those of any creature living in the mortal world today, and so having additional biological protection from a backstab was most likely an early adaption for survival.
Wait...so they basically have naturally grown bone plates on their backs?! That is cool!
K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
- Location
- Belgium
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- He
Even more treacherous than the Skavens? That's quite the feat. I wonder why the rats never developed such bony shoulders.
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Because we are talking about greenskin, and we know about their 40k equilivants (I fucked up that word for sure).
- Location
- A Pit Of My Own Making
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Any idea of a name?
Also forgot to mention, was thinking about giving the Dwai Zharr Helldrakks - which are just Helldrakes from 40K, large dragon-sized Daemon-Engines. They'd be few in number though
This touches on a few things that I've thought about, but some of it is new to me, so thank you.
It's against the Laws of the Conclave to for a Dawi Zharr to kill another. For any reason. I've already shown there as exceptions, such as being so hated no one says anything, but those are pretty rare. Everyone is bound by this law, from the highest to the lowest.
Sorcerer-Prophets assassinating each other is somewhat common. But if they were caught doing it, there was enough proof to accuse them, and the Conclave voted for it, they'd be sacrificed to Hashut.
If two no-bodies fought each other and one died, the killer would get exiled, not killed. Granted, exile can be worse than death, but there is still a chance of it being rescinded for some reason.
I'll admit I'm a bit unsure about the Dawi population, if people agree "low thousands" is too low I'll change it.
Moving on to Hobgoblins, they occupy the middle-men position between the Dawi Zharr and their legions of slaves. A Dawi Zharr would be the Overseer, but the Hobgoblins would be carrying the whips and keeping them inline.
But the Hobgoblins are still slaves, they just don't have to wear collars. When they betrayed the rest of their race, and their GODS basically, they were in so much trouble only working for the Dawi Zharr would keep them safe. Now, there are the free Khanates in the North-East, but most of them have links back to the Dawi Zharr.
Oooh, fun stuff. Kinda like a lesser Hellcannon.
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Except there is almost no possibility of it exploding in your face...with daemons of Slannesh especially.
War Machines & Deamon-Engines
- Location
- A Pit Of My Own Making
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- He/Him
The Dawi Zharr are famous and infamous both for their war machines, matched only by the Skaven in their number, variety and level of destruction. Unlike the Skaven Warplock engineers, Daemonsmith Sorcerers ensure their creations do not regularly fall apart; not only do they hold themselves to higher standards, many war machines include bound daemons, and if those break free their first target will likely be the one that imprisoned them.
War Machines
- Magma Cannon - The Magma Cannon is a fiendish weapon first conceived of for use against the ravening Trolls and other monsters that thrive in the Dark Lands, for it is something of a cross between a field artillery piece and a furnace. It is designed to spew molten metal and fire upon its victim, horrifically burning them to death. Commonly modified by their user, some use pressurised steam-boilers to jet gouts of burning sulphur, caustic tar or pyretic acids, while others incorporate sorcerously-bound volcanic glass shells, in which molten lava drawn from the deep earth slumbers until its shell is shattered.
- Dreadquake Mortars - the largest and most effective of all the mighty siege weapons deployed by the Chaos Dwarfs, capable of rending the earth and smashing through layered stone fortifications as if they were kindling. The Dreadquake's deadly projectiles are fired by steam pressure generated by a boiler and contained within a pressure vessel – conventional gunpowder being far too dangerous given the volatility of the Dreadquake's unique and powerful shells. As a consequence it takes quite a while for the machine to generate enough steam to fire a single shot – limiting its potential in battle. It is common for one or even two to be pulled by Iron Daemons.
- Earthshaker Cannon - A massive cannon that fires a heavy shell filled with high explosive which first burrows deep into the ground before exploding and creating deadly shockwaves. Nearby enemies not killed by the initial explosion are flung, stunned, to the ground.
- Whirlwind & Tenderiser - A two wheeled cart with a large number of spikes and scythes with rotating blades on the front driven by a cog system linked to the axle. The Tenderiser is a variant using three vast hammers rather than blades. They need to be pushed by some beast of burden, or in a pinch some strong slaves.
- Swivel Gun - A portable breech-loading light cannon, normally is used to fire a brutal blasts of shrapnel, its mechanism meaning that a second charge can be loaded even as the first one is being aimed and fired. The breech block can be loaded with anything likley to be lethal to the enemy including iron scrap, lead, pebbles, chains, stones and coins. Most often found on fortress walls or Dawi Zharr ships, but can be carried into battle by weapon teams.
- Fiendish Thrower - Made in mirror of the Grudge Thrower of their slave-bounded cousins, they created something more... fiendish, by trapping several violent daemons into round cages inscribed with runes making sure it is 'stable' enough, that when broken when they hit, it will let out violent daemons who will attack the closest living thing or object. By design they will dissipate shortly, so the Dawi Zhar don't have to deal with loose daemons.
Daemon-Engines
- Iron Daemon- One of the latest Daemon Engines designed - barely two centuries old - the Iron Deamon is a mighty, smoke-belching powerhouse that fires blasts of shrapnel against enemy forces or crushes fortifications while towing heavily-armed steam carriages. The boilers that power these machines are cunningly designed so that they can also be used to work pressure-fed weapons such as cannonades and wall-breakers.
- Skullcracker - A common refit of the Iron Daemon, the Skullcracker has been modified to crush fortifications and walls. Mounted on the front and linked directly to the main boiler, the grinding arcane-mechanical conglomeration of iron hammers, hacking blades and brutal picks pulverise and shred anything in front of the machine.
- Hellcannon - a massive construct of metal that growls and shakes with daemonic sentience. In battle, these arcane engines heave crackling blasts of raw energy that soar through the air into their targets, liquefying anything they touch and sending the survivors insane with fear. Such is the Hellcannon's bloodlust that it must be chained to the ground to stop it rampaging towards enemy lines. Even these precautions often prove inadequate, as there is little that can stay a Hellcannon's lust for destruction. For ammunition, the Dawi Zharr shovel the bodies of their enemies into the Hellcannon's dire-furnace. Flesh runs like wax as the Daemon-machine's hearth feasts on body and bone. Soon, only the souls of its victims are left, harnessed in the Hellcannon's gullet as crackling bolts of energy that are fired towards the enemy in powerful spasms of malice.
- Deathshrieker Rocket Launcher - one of the most diabolic and destructive weapons ever created, for bound within its munitions are howling, malevolent fire-spirits harvested from the cinders of Hashut's sacrificial altars, and it is the hellish shrieking of these spirits when loosed that gives the weapon its name. The packed, multiple warheads of the Deathshrieker detonate in the air above the battlefield in a storm of fire – fire which has its own terrible hunger for life. Screaming, fanged tendrils of flame plunge downwards, actively seeking out victims. The tormented spirits are far from discerning as to whose flesh they burn, and the Chaos Dwarfs must be cautious in its use, lest their own suffer from such a wrathful weapon.
- Firebringers - Similar to an Ankorite Gryobomber, these rotorcraft are powered by a daemon bound within. Thanks to this, the machine can out perform it's rivals in speed and flight-distance while carrying heavier armour. Swooping above the battlefield like a burning comet, Firebringers can unleash steams of sorcerous fire or volleys of small Deathshrieker rockets. Firebringers are volatile machines, and prone to ignoring the commands of their pilots. They require near-constant maintenance and reapplication of it's bindings, least the trapped daemon breaks free.
- Steam Constructs - Creations of the Sorcerer-Prophet Firfith Bronzebeard, these bronze machines are powered primarily through steam. Although Firfith has created a sizable number, especially of Spider Engineers and Steam Guards, they have thus far remained either within his personal tower or as part of his retinue.
- Spider Engineers - About the size of a dog, these arachnid-shaped machines are primarily used to perform repairs on Firfith's tower and machines. At their disposal are a number of small tools, which can equally be used to attack intruders. The Sorcerer-Prophet has used daemons to link these machines together, forming a single "Hive" Mind - they share information between themselves, and also with a primary control hub, from where Deamonsmiths maintain and watch over the system
- Steam Guards - These machines replaced Firfith's guards after they failed to stop a Skaven assassin from wounding him. They are c capable of switching between two forms. The first is a fast moving sphere, that traverses the Sorcerer Prophet's tower is specially made ducts, allowing them to reach intruders quickly. The sphere unfolds to reveal the main body of the Guard - a spindly humanoid about the size of a human. They are armed with a short blade arm, and a steam powered crossbow.
- Steam Centurions - the largest of Firfith's constructs, about the size of a troll and with strength to match. Few in number, each are bound to him and rarely leave his side. They are the Sorcerer-Prophet's greatest success so far, for he claims they are sentient - able to speak intelligently and learn. The source of this ability is the sizable chunk of warpstone at the heart of each Centurion. However Firfith's rivals, among them Khazak The Fireforged, claim that this intelligence is some trick, some act on Firfith's part - or that his machines are simply possessed by deamons. The Sorcerer-Prophet rejects theses claims, and ensures the Centruions receive maintenance regularly, both of their internal systems and the daemonic bindings.
K'daai Constructs
Impossible fusions of daemonic energy and fiery elementals, K'daai are bound within bodies of brass and iron. Only the greatest Sorcerer-Prophets can afford to create even one of these beings, for not only does it take a great deal of skill but resources too. To stand closer to a lesser one is like standing next to a roaring furnace, one that hates you with every fiber of it's immaterial being.- Fireborn - Shaped like hulking humanoids held aloft by lava, Fireborn are utilised as shock troopers, assaulting the enemies' line where are weakest and breaking through, causing havoc with their heavy maces.
- Destroyer - Far larger than the K'daai Fireborn, K'daai Destroyers are massive constructs created in the form of mighty warriors or iron beasts, such as gargantuan monstrous bulls and other nightmarish creatures, awakened by mass blood sacrifice and let loose upon the enemy.
- Fireforged - An evolved and more refined Fireborn, first created by Khazak The Fireforged. With a more enclosed body it is tougher, but the added weight causes it to move slower. Fireforged can launch streams of fire from their "mouths", as well as from their clawed hands.
- Troll Hunter - A bipedal K'daai, with it's fiery essence contained within thick armour, making it tougher but slower. Designed by Khazak The Fireforged primarily for hunting Trolls, as well as other large monsters with regeneration, one of the Hunter's arms is replaced with a cannon capable of launching the K'daai's own burning body as a weapon, splashing acorss the target like molten magma. Of course, extensive use can cause fatigue, as the metal body becomes emptier.
- Guardian - A bipedal K'daai in the shape of a Dawi Zharr warrior, with it's fiery essence contained within thick armour, making it tougher but slower. Made as a counter to the Steam Centurions designed by Khazak's rival, Firfith Bronzebeard, the Guardians are used by Khazak as his bodyguards and to guard his holdings. They can speak, but in truth only repeat phrases taught to them by their creator.
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This is definitely too little for the whole race. With such a meager amount of the titular population, their state, given its size, simply will not be able to function and will collapse at the first serious threat. And this is not to mention that if these figures are correct, they are doomed to extinction. Just take all the dangers they face, add in the influence of chaos and their rate of reproduction as a long-lived race, and you will understand how bad things are. And with the declared number of their population, I do not see how they can expand, not to mention the retention of existing conquests.
- Location
- A Pit Of My Own Making
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- He/Him
Iron Deamons - the trains - are confusing to me because they're called Daemon-Engines, but I can't work out where the daemon is in them. Not in the engine, because they need to be fed coal. Is it just the whole engine?
K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
- Location
- Belgium
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- He
Maybe ´´Firebringers''? Given that they would be equipped with rockets, that name would be fitting.
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Mate...did you seriously (kinda) double posted?
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Perhaps? Or perhaps it's the boiler? Daemons nothing allows them to cut materials corners, which is why they have trains? Or maybe it replaces the crew.
That aside I feel like there should be lots of innovation for the CD. Capitalists to the max means lots of semi tested highly dangerous systems, as every smith, sorcerer and clerk seeks a way to outdo their rivals.