Oh, I wasn't necessarily saying Miyu!Shirou would be antagonistic. Just more that they would fundamentally be unable to truly see eye to eye, at least in the beginning of the Grail War.
Fate/Kaleid Emiya: Oath Under The Snow (Miyuverse Shirou in F/SN Quest)
- Thread starter nicklzh
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Oh, I wasn't necessarily saying Miyu!Shirou would be antagonistic. Just more that they would fundamentally be unable to truly see eye to eye, at least in the beginning of the Grail War.
Aburg7
Just another Gundam(WIng) Pilot
- Location
- A land called Honahlee
not really that curious since her fate in his timeline is similar to the fate ending where she dies a year later without warning, something EMIYA actually feels ashamed about and regrets not being able to save her.
confused and somewhat happy I suspect
It's the path he wished he chose.
Like, no version of FSN Shirou or EMIYA would truly object to Miyu!Shirou's choice, though they may be in opposition.
Fate!Shirou would probably be disappointed and blame it on having never been inspired by Arthuria's dream.
UBW!Shirou would consider it the realist approach, but also believed he could have done better, rather than giving up on the world.
HF!Shirou would brofist as they fight for the same goal.
EMIYA would applaud this worthy goal rather than the impossible one.
meganeshounen
*tips glasses*
- Location
- Far East Asia
For me, Shirou's mentality was something like this:
Fate = "save everyone"
UBW = "save those that you can"
Heaven's Feel = "save your most important person"
So I agree that HF!Shirou would resonate with him the most.
- Location
- Somewhere
Well, one thing to remember is that even HF!Shirou still tried to save the world.
He just decided he'd rather also save Sakura, rather than kill Sakura to minimize casualties.
Still, yeah he'd resonate the most with Miyu!Shiro.
- Location
- Budapest, Hungary
Shirou in VN saves people for the the sake of make himself feel like Kiritsugu, when he saved him from the fire. It was stated in the end of UBW. At the end only the act of saving matters, but in Fate he does not fully realize that. And in HF he decided, that saving the right person is more meaningful for him, than try to save everyone else by sacrificing the person.
Myu!Shirou is the same as HF!Shirou, except he had a safer option to became Pseudo-Servant.
Myu!Shirou is the same as HF!Shirou, except he had a safer option to became Pseudo-Servant.
Thats why I said none of the Shirous will oppose him for his choice, but only where his choice conflicts with theirs.
All of them still wish to save everyone, but UBW Shirou admits that he can and will fail, and HF Shirou admits that some everyones are more important than all everyones.
Miyu!Shirou had made his choice Miyu, then Sakura, then the world.
- Location
- Somewhere
Everyone within their sight.
It's an important distinction.
Their purpose is the act of saving, not the result of saving.
- Location
- The internet
The important thing I'd to ally with Shirou and Saber as soon as practical. Mainly because combining Saber with the Shirou's ability to ape the noble phantasm and fighting styles of The Knights of the Round Table should allow us to trivially steamroll anything short of Gilgamesh.
C4d
Has approximate knowledge of many things.
- Location
- Germany
Ironically Gilgamesh is the servant that would pose nearly no thread to a cooperating duo made out of M!Shirou/Archer and Saber.
UBW with sufficient Prana supply is a hard counter to Gilgamesh, add Saber and Gil would be wrecked unless he immediately pulls out EA and we all know how likely that is. And that is without taking M!Shirous drastically increased combat prowess when compared to UBW!Shirou into account.
- Location
- Budapest, Hungary
Though in serious mode, he would just overwhelm then A rank or better weapons to before the can finish UBW. Also his armor can tank anything sort of Excalibur tier stuff. And when he is opposed by Excalibur he will pull Ea.
- Location
- The internet
True. I'm just saying that M!Shirou with Arondight backing up Saber would completely shred anyone short of Gil and Maybe Beserker Herc. Very few beings can face the King Of Knights and one of her nights, even if said knight is fake. Add in Fate!Shirou in the backline with Fail-Not and litterally only Gil has a prayer.
C4d
Has approximate knowledge of many things.
- Location
- Germany
While inside UBW the weapon spam from the Gate is effectively neutralized because even with a rank down the weapons that can be traced will shoot down the originals from it. That leaves Saber to engage Gil in melee and hes shit at single combat. Simply put if they get him inside UBW and he doesn't open with EA, which he would never do, he won't be able to use it with Saber smacking him around. And M!Shirou knows EA because Angelica used it to defeat him so he would inform Saber about it beforehand.
Saber alone could have defeated every Servant except Gil and possibly Berserker in the 5th war if she had been supplied with sufficient Prana. Together with M!Shirou they would steamroll everything including Gil and Berserker with only Gil even needing UBW.
- Location
- The internet
EMIYA would have a good chance of stopping her if he got serious about trying to kill her. Sniping her with Clarent from across town is a pretty good counter. But, yeah, that was my general point. Ally with Shirou, get Saber, proceed to steamroll.
reborn214
Deep in thought
- Location
- California
Eh, Fate Shirou kind of sucks as a master.
With him providing the energy, Saber has a lot of trouble fighting people like Hercules. Especially in Fate route, Emiya Archer had to do a self sacrifice to buy time for a mana exchange. Miyu Shirou probably can't perform much better than Emiya, so it follows that the result is the same as Fate route if we take those actions.
- Location
- The internet
Part of the issue is the hastily done contract, as well as the fact that he isn't even using his magic circuits properly. Plus, we have caster. Point her at the problem and tell her to fix it and Saber will be at full power in relatively short order even if we have to use rule breaker and then have F!Shirou redo the contract properly.
- Location
- Budapest, Hungary
If the are alive before manifesting UBW.
It is 8 line aria, Gil has time to kill Shirou/Archer before they can finish the casting, even with Rho Aias up. And Gil can disrupt UBW with Ea.
burningclaw2
The Power of the Tomato!
Please stop any powerlevel arguments before you possibly accidentally kill the qm's muse, please.
nicklzh
Plan? What plan?
- Location
- Malaysia
If I had to rank Canon masters excluding Caster, it is as follows... (current time)
In terms of prana provision:
1. Illya
2. Miyu!Shirou
3. Rin Tohsaka / Sakura Matou (conditional)
4. Kirei Kotomine
5. Shirou
6. Shinji
In terms of combat:
1. Miyu!Shirou
2. Kirei Kotomine
3. Illya
4. Rin Tohsaka
5. Shirou
6. Shinji
7. Sakura
Note, Miyu!Shirou includes nigh-infinite prana so his rank in the first list would shoot down to under Rin and above Kirei without it.
In terms of Servants, Miyu!Shirou would pretty much be Archer, worse at sniping but better at spamming the active abilities of NP's like True Nine Lives: The Shooting Hundred Heads. So he's on the low ranks without Medea support.
In terms of prana provision:
1. Illya
2. Miyu!Shirou
3. Rin Tohsaka / Sakura Matou (conditional)
4. Kirei Kotomine
5. Shirou
6. Shinji
In terms of combat:
1. Miyu!Shirou
2. Kirei Kotomine
3. Illya
4. Rin Tohsaka
5. Shirou
6. Shinji
7. Sakura
Note, Miyu!Shirou includes nigh-infinite prana so his rank in the first list would shoot down to under Rin and above Kirei without it.
In terms of Servants, Miyu!Shirou would pretty much be Archer, worse at sniping but better at spamming the active abilities of NP's like True Nine Lives: The Shooting Hundred Heads. So he's on the low ranks without Medea support.
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- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Luckily, we do have that lovely Ancient Greek buffing support, so we should outclass Archer pretty heavily at melee range, and be of a comparable class to Saber and Lancer while buffed.
I'm wondering if there's any utility to actively pretending to be the Servant while Medea pretends to be the Master (as opposed to merely fulfilling that effective role but not concealing it from our enemies).
It's a cute idea that stands a good chance of throwing people off, but Medea Classic got beaten up in CQC by a modern Mage herself, and the Lily version is even worse at fighting, so it's not like we'd be tricking them into thinking she's a squishy target when she isn't - she really is squishy.
I guess it might throw off some more esoteric effects that come into play, like what Medea Classic pulled on Saber? The Assassin that ends up being summoned is a wildcard in that respect too.
I'm wondering if there's any utility to actively pretending to be the Servant while Medea pretends to be the Master (as opposed to merely fulfilling that effective role but not concealing it from our enemies).
It's a cute idea that stands a good chance of throwing people off, but Medea Classic got beaten up in CQC by a modern Mage herself, and the Lily version is even worse at fighting, so it's not like we'd be tricking them into thinking she's a squishy target when she isn't - she really is squishy.
I guess it might throw off some more esoteric effects that come into play, like what Medea Classic pulled on Saber? The Assassin that ends up being summoned is a wildcard in that respect too.
burningclaw2
The Power of the Tomato!
I'm guessing Kuzuki is on Shinji's level in terms of prana.
nicklzh
Plan? What plan?
- Location
- Malaysia
Kuzuki is a tiny step above Shinji as he has some proficiency in Breathing and Walking. Not to the level of Magecraft, but its better than Shinji.
Shirou also has the breathing exercise down, but not the walking part.
People that are born with this trait end up with greater mysteries than most thaumurturgy without even knowing it.
- Location
- Somewhere
... Why do you want us to get Nerfed!Saber? She doesn't even have Excalibur!