- Location
- Budapest, Hungary
Pretty sure, that he can not trace sapient, sentiment weapons, who are permanently bounded to a soul.
Fate/Kaleid Emiya: Oath Under The Snow (Miyuverse Shirou in F/SN Quest)
- Thread starter nicklzh
- Start date
- Location
- College Station, Texas
Why not?
- Location
- Budapest, Hungary
Because they are spirits primarily.
Demojay
Yes, let's put an end to this
- Location
- UK
They are still in the form of a sword so he would probably be able to copy everything but the actual sentience.
- Location
- College Station, Texas
So? He probably has plenty of swords with spirits inhabiting them, like Masamune.
NoisyMatchStar
Lord of all that is Purple
- Location
- Pittsburgh
Then it's just an empty sword. And by that logic he would be able to trace any iteration of himself since he is a sword.
Aww, Illya is discovering that she has the inferior Shirou. Ain't it sad?
Actually, she doesn't really hate Shirou. If anything both Angelica and Shirou identify with each other the most out of anyone. Including Kuro.
They're both emotionally stunted elder siblings who are willing to turn against the world in order to make their siblings happy after all, and if anything any hate that Angelica felt for Shirou was prolly amplified due to the subtle influence of the Gil install.
Also, Shirou was totally checking Angelica out when she changed into her 'male virgin killer' clothing.
As the closest thing to kindred spirits that he has, he and Angelica would make a nice couple I think.
Demojay
Yes, let's put an end to this
- Location
- UK
I meant that he would trace the weapon with its powers but without the voice. Either way, he shouldn't have a problem anyway since the only limitations he has in terms of copying swords are:
- Prana costs (he has infinite prana)
- Divine constructs (Most of the blades are explicitly not divine since they are made up of dead human souls)
- Conceptual DRM (Which none of them have either)
Yeah, but he needs to hook up with Luvia for Miyu's sake.Aww, Illya is discovering that she has the inferior Shirou. Ain't it sad?
Actually, she doesn't really hate Shirou. If anything both Angelica and Shirou identify with each other the most out of anyone. Including Kuro.
They're both emotionally stunted elder siblings who are willing to turn against the world in order to make their siblings happy after all, and if anything any hate that Angelica felt for Shirou was prolly amplified due to the subtle influence of the Gil install.
Also, Shirou was totally checking Angelica out when she changed into her 'male virgin killer' clothing.
As the closest thing to kindred spirits that he has, he and Angelica would make a nice couple I think.
NoisyMatchStar
Lord of all that is Purple
- Location
- Pittsburgh
You're making it sound as if the voice and power are different things and not one and the same.
edit: Also I think a human can be considered a divine construct.
edit: Edit: I mean human SOULS can be considered a divine construct.
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I think it would be exceedingly rare for a human to be a Divine Construct. Normally a human like that would just be classified as a demigod.
I could MAYBE see someone like Adam classified as a Divine Construct, as far as humans are concerned.
Non-humans, such as Enkidu, have no problem being Divine Constructs.
Demojay
Yes, let's put an end to this
- Location
- UK
No, because there are explicit Gods in the bleach setting and we were told that the forging process of the swords are made using hollows, so they should be able to be recreated by UBW
NoisyMatchStar
Lord of all that is Purple
- Location
- Pittsburgh
Sorry I meant human SOULS can be a divine construct.
And I'm saying that while Shirou might be able to trace a sword it would be a blank (asauchi) and wouldn't work without the shinigami soul to be within it.
Note that he can UBW weapons MADE by gods and other such things. The definition of Divine Construct is a little fiddly, but I'd say the primary determinant is that the object be empowered or critically dependent upon direct and ongoing divine investment to function would lose those elements(Mjolnir would only be a fine hammer as the dwarves made for Thor, but it won't command the storm), while objects made by only divinely attainable means(e.g. Ea) cannot be scanned at all.
That said, UBW only contains earthly, mundane materials, and can only perform earthly works of forging.
Theres only one human soul in UBW, which is Shirou himself.
The only known means of directly handling modifying a human soul in Nasuverse is the Heaven's Feel.
As such while he could perhaps analyze an asauchi or zanpukto, he could only make himself into one unless he attains Heaven's Feel.
That said, UBW only contains earthly, mundane materials, and can only perform earthly works of forging.
Theres only one human soul in UBW, which is Shirou himself.
The only known means of directly handling modifying a human soul in Nasuverse is the Heaven's Feel.
As such while he could perhaps analyze an asauchi or zanpukto, he could only make himself into one unless he attains Heaven's Feel.
No its not. Zouken moved his soul into his familiars/worms and Roa can control his own process of reincarnation.
Heaven's Feel is the ability to allow a soul to exist without a vessel indefinitely, without suffering any form of long term degradation and without being recognized by Gaia as an unnatural existence.
Which I included. Your own soul is easy
- Location
- Somewhere
UBW can theoretically recreate any blade as long as Shirou can conceptualize it's creation.
It can't recreate Excalibur, because as a Last Phantasm created by the planet, the process of creation is something that can't be understood by humans.
It can't recreate Ea, because it is a weapon that carries the concept 'can only be wielded by Gilgamesh', and thus it actively prevents Shirou from scanning it.
If Shirou tried recreating a blade with a soul, he'd only be able to create an 'Image' of it, as the process of creating souls is something he can't understand.
Similarly, he can't copy himself because he's neither a sword nor can he understand how his soul is created.
It can't recreate Excalibur, because as a Last Phantasm created by the planet, the process of creation is something that can't be understood by humans.
It can't recreate Ea, because it is a weapon that carries the concept 'can only be wielded by Gilgamesh', and thus it actively prevents Shirou from scanning it.
If Shirou tried recreating a blade with a soul, he'd only be able to create an 'Image' of it, as the process of creating souls is something he can't understand.
Similarly, he can't copy himself because he's neither a sword nor can he understand how his soul is created.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Continuing this argument is utterly pointless, since the way that Bleach and Fate treat souls is very deeply different, to the point that it would be up to authorial fiat to decide how things work in any hypothetical crossover.
That said, even having acknowledged the futility of this discussion, I'll still can't resist my pedantry instincts. So I'd just like to point out that zanpakuto aren't Noble Phantasms - they don't have any conceptual power linked to their intrinsic history as stored in the collective memories of humanity. As such, even if Shirou could Trace one, it would just operate as a copy of the existing zanpakuto. And last I checked? Physically picking up someone else's zanpakuto doesn't let you use it.
That said, even having acknowledged the futility of this discussion, I'll still can't resist my pedantry instincts. So I'd just like to point out that zanpakuto aren't Noble Phantasms - they don't have any conceptual power linked to their intrinsic history as stored in the collective memories of humanity. As such, even if Shirou could Trace one, it would just operate as a copy of the existing zanpakuto. And last I checked? Physically picking up someone else's zanpakuto doesn't let you use it.
- Location
- College Station, Texas
Considering the fact that Zanpakuto ARE forged (and we see this in the later parts of the manga), Shirou is pretty much able to use them like he was their owner.
- Location
- Somewhere
The Mooncell-verse is an exception, as it's digital nature somehow* makes it possible to trace Excalibur.
Outside of it, the best Shirou/Archer can do is create Image Excalibur, as seen at the end of HF and when Archer threatened Artoria in UBW.
*I got no clue how.
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- Location
- College Station, Texas
Prisma Illya?
Excalibur is made out of the hopes of humanity.
Technically UBW does contain some of the hopes of humanity?
- Location
- Somewhere
Prisma Ilya has been declared not canon, because there's a long list of shit that doesn't fly by Nasu laws, and it's creator had enough of fans going "That doesn't work like that!".
At any rate, Ilya somehow used 'An Advanced Exploit' to replicate Excalibur against Saber Alter. It may and may not have involved the Kaleidoscope.
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A quiet field of blades stabbed like graves contains the hopes of humanity.
There's something hilarious about that image.
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How did you think all those swords got there? Someone carried them with hope, but wound up with only a field of broken dreams.A quiet field of blades stabbed like graves contains the hopes of humanity.
There's something hilarious about that image.
Actually, even in the Moon Cell, it's only Excalibur Image, not a proper copy of Excalibur. And he can only do it while UBW is fully deployed.
It's also unclear whether or not Archer was bluffing when he said that to Arturia. And if he wasn't bluffing, then it would be a suicide attack on his part.
Einzbern Wishcraft + infinite supply of magical energy = hax