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Falling Iron (IM MCU/WORM)

Iron Man's first patrol

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Mechatrill said:
-snip-
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That's the canon explanation, actually.

The real killer, however, according to Wildbow, is maintenance. An example from Wildbow, is the army buying power armour from a tinker. During it's first engagement, a hole is blown into it, and the tinker is unavailable for repairs. Since all the vital internal bits are intact, they patch it up themselves, only now it moves jerkily and overheats.

Then they try oiling the joints to fix the movement problem, and the whole thing dies. They call in the tinker, and it turns out the patch job threw off it's balance, causing parts to overwork and overheat. And the oil they used was the wrong type, and accidentally applied it to the heat vents.
 
JTibbs said:
The argument has slid away from the source, as per your response.
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You said:
JTibbs said:
But essentially you can have one of the following in worm:

1: Tinker tech is reproducible, but the governments just are holding the idiot ball and don't want to spend the money to manufacture it (which with the endbringers around they would be stupid as hell to do)

2: tinker tech blends actual advanced science with magic, essentially embuing parts with special properties that are non replicatable, essentially SPACE MAGIC!!11 so scientists can only replicate SOME of their stuff.
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The argument is that no, those two aren't the only possible explanations at all.

I think (almost) no one is arguing that Tinker tech could be reproduced on the mass scale (i.e. move it past the prototype issue requiring the Tinker him/herself to be present for the manufacture and to run constant patch-up jobs and adjustments all the time to keep it even barely operational)... in a decade or two or three, with the full might of the national (or even world-wide) scientific community behind the reverse-engineering project.

What people are arguing is that

1) Tinker tech is not viable for mass production as it is, because of the maintenance issue

2) Governments are not idiots for not going after the high-level tinker tech and trying to surmount the obstacles lying in the path towards it mass-manufacture and use.

EDIT:
Satori said:
Guys, start a new thread for the tinker discussion alreAdy.
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Agreed. Sorry. I'll stop here, as it isn't productive, or all that related to the thread anymore.
 
For fuck's sake, Worm follows the classical comic and TV series conventions for supertech, it's no more and no less realistic than Iron Man or Stargate where they managed to build a spaceship in a mere four years with less personnel, less budget and less issues than the F-35, F-22, B-2, F-18, F-16. Wildbow didn't want to deal with the impact of supertech on society and handwaved away the issue of its reproduceability.

Now imagine an engineer in the early 19th century, he has the sheer genius of Einstein, Tesla and the business acumen of Steve Jobs and Warren Buffet. By the way, he also has the knowledge of the 10000 best engineers from ARM, Qualcomm, Intel, Apple, Samsung, Hynix, NVIDIA, Asus... it covers everything from semi-conductors, display technology, chemistry, metallurgy to software programming. Is he going to be able to produce an iPhone in ten or even 20 years. Fuck no.

If you even want to be slightly rigorous about it, Tinkers aren't simply using extremely advanced technology from extremely advanced races, there's more to it.

For myself, I simply suspended by disbelief and pretend that it makes sense.
 
So, had a thought about Armsmaster here. Anyone remember his feelings about Dauntless? I'd totally forgot what an early-Worm Armsmaster was like.
 
Darth Artemis said:
Reading the first few chapters... is Tony doped up on morphine or something? He's info-dumping all over the place.
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MCU Tony does this. A lot. "Oh, didn't anyone do the required reading? I took last night to become an expert at wormhole mathematics!"
John At Dawn said:
Tony is not in the best state of mind. Even in MCU canon, the wormhole event really messed him up. The fact that he might not see Pepper or his friends again is only compounding that. But since this is Tony, he is doing everything he can to hide this from others. So he's being as complacent as possible with info on his world so that they won't focus onhim.
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This is so much the problems. Gallant is going to go "OH DAMN HE'S MELTING DOWN INSIDE".
gladiusone said:
When Tony is nervous, he talks. A lot. It distracts people, deflects them, it's a way of manipulating them, making them underestimate him, get them irritated and angry, basically stopping them thinking clearly ... while his mind is going at lightspeed.
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People underestimate those who chatter, because their brains don't usually keep up. Tony's does (for the most part. Sometimes it still gets away from him).
 
hydraulic man said:
There's only one Tinker capable of mass producing the work of other Tinkers. Even then you run into the complexity problem. Here's PARTIAL instructions for keeping a KNIFE sharp.

The stuff is just too advanced for modern maintenance procedures that are routine for normal care for wear and tear. Just imagine a librarian from the 1800s being instructed in computer repair.
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Oh, and that tinker? Not a parahuman, but a seed AI that triggered.
 
arthurh3535 said:
Limited Seed AI. Can't operate at full speed and can't replicate itself.
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Can't create any type of A.I., actually. Or even be in more than one place at once (use two teleoperated suits at once). She's really, really limited. Which is very sad.
 
arthurh3535 said:
People underestimate those who chatter, because their brains don't usually keep up. Tony's does (for the most part. Sometimes it still gets away from him).
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Yeah, and people tend to tune out people who chatter too. When dealing with Tony that's a deadly mistake because he was just telling you about how he's going to kill you with the box of scraps you gave him but you weren't paying attention to him and within a week you're going to be dying a fiery death as your ammo dump explodes around you and creates a fireball big enough to be seen from orbit and thank you for not listening to the chatterbox you caught earlier on.
Yog said:
Can't create any type of A.I., actually. Or even be in more than one place at once (use two teleoperated suits at once). She's really, really limited. Which is very sad.
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Wait until Tony gets his hands on her source code...
 
OMAKE!
Note: I can't really write Worm-verse folks yet, so have adventures in Tony attempting meaningful conversation. (And I'm not going to mainline it in a handful of sessions. I learned my lesson with that catching up on Welcome to Night Vale.)

The room was dark, except for some wire-frame models on a screen, status lights on Moron and Nimwit and a desk lamp turned to spotlight a boardgame set up on the work bench. Taylor didn't recognize it.

"Taylor, we need to talk about 'buying me time,'" said Tony Stark, "And some about the last person who did. Sit down."

She sat. Tony picked up the dice cup. His hands and face visible in the light, the rest swallowed by shadows and memories.

"Backgammon's an old game. I learned it from a man name Yinsen..."
 
Dragon is a seed AI? I figured her for a high end AGI. She strikes me as being less capable than Nomic, she just has really good peripherals and secondary programs.
 
Satori said:
Dragon is a seed AI? I figured her for a high end AGI. She strikes me as being less capable than Nomic, she just has really good peripherals and secondary programs.
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She's a crippled Seed AI. Her owner could have her create or help shape new AIs (and did before he died, IIRC).
 
warlock7 said:
i think Tony will totally be reminded of Yinsen by Taylor and her actions both in his rescue, and her attempt to help him VS dragonslayers...
and that him having such a talk is too likely to happen to be considered omake.
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Well I can't write canon. It's not my story.
 
I can't see Tony doing that. Now Taylor might force him to play a boardgame at JARVIS's suggestion.
 
BF110C4 said:
Or his trigger could actually be a problem for him, like a tinker power that mess up his normal skills in engineering and sciences.
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I vote for the ability to control bubbles, it goes with the administration shard, is practically useless, and allows people to nickname him Bubbles which would be amusing.
 
Doesn't sound like anything helpful to the story to me. I mean, the idea behind this fic seems to be to put tony stark into Worms verse and watch how he changes/effects things, and now you want to disable the bits that make him important?
 
Happerry said:
Doesn't sound like anything helpful to the story to me. I mean, the idea behind this fic seems to be to put tony stark into Worms verse and watch how he changes/effects things, and now you want to disable the bits that make him important?
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No, we are noting that someone in a really bad headspace has the potential to trigger if they get a shard. Both things have to happen.

Tony is in a worse headspace than IM3, he just hasn't fallen apart yet. So he's got a fairly high chance to trigger. He might not, of course. May not have a shard to connect to. So he could just be subject to total panic attacks and he doesn't have his anchor.
 
Ryune said:
Honestly... If Tony was going to trigger at any point in the fic it would have been the moment Taylor ran out to buy him time. Think about it. The entire situation was flashback city with the added trauma of "She's just a kid" and "She saved my life and I get her killed not even a month after meeting her." Any other time would likely require her or someone he likes just as much in the hands of the S9 or something while Tony watches them take them apart or something equally traumatic.
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Or that he needs to save the Wards and/or Skitter and he's too busy having a panic attack.

Tony's a fucking mess.
 
arthurh3535 said:
Tony's a fucking mess.
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Tony is always a mess. The three fundamental states of an Iron Man story are, in order: Being Tony Stark is awesome, OK maybe that part sucks, Being Iron Man is awesome-also I am Tony Stark at the same time.
Right now we are working our way from state one to state two, as far as any outside observers can tell.
 
Ryune said:
Honestly... If Tony was going to trigger at any point in the fic it would have been the moment Taylor ran out to buy him time. Think about it. The entire situation was flashback city with the added trauma of "She's just a kid" and "She saved my life and I get her killed not even a month after meeting her." Any other time would likely require her or someone he likes just as much in the hands of the S9 or something while Tony watches them take them apart or something equally traumatic.
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And Flashbacks of the man who went out to slow down people who were coming to kill him while he put on his suit.
 
arthurh3535 said:
No, we are noting that someone in a really bad headspace has the potential to trigger if they get a shard. Both things have to happen.

Tony is in a worse headspace than IM3, he just hasn't fallen apart yet. So he's got a fairly high chance to trigger. He might not, of course. May not have a shard to connect to. So he could just be subject to total panic attacks and he doesn't have his anchor.
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Yes, but giving him a Tinker Shard just to mess up his ability to pass on his tech, as was suggested directly above my post and which is what I was responding to, doesn't sound like anything that would make the story better to me.
 
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