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Extrication, or: Tricking Fate

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Mostly based on @SynchronizedWritersBlock's plan. Changes bolded.

[x] Plan (Mostly) Galadriel

[x] Politics (1)
[x] Logistics (1)
[x] Haggling (1)

[x] Divination
-[x] Master (3)
[x] Enchantment
-[x] Expert (3.5)
[x] Transmutation
-[x] Master (3.5)
[x] Glamour
-[x] Expert (3)

[x] Life Magic
-[x] Expert (1.5)
[x] Necromancy
-[x] Expert (2.5)

I think we should focus more on Transmutation rather than Glamour, because Transmutation essentially doubles as Curses. We want to dispense justice and have both carrot and stick? Transmutation is the way to go. Instead of Cursing people, which is honestly really dire, we can just transform them into various animals instead. Plus, I'm a little uneasy about investing too much in Glamour. Being able to affect people's minds is typically considered really skeevy. I know it's necessary to be able to do illusion things for this plan, but I don't want us to be too much of an expert at literally changing people's minds. It's way too easy to accuse us of brainwashing our populace then.

Edit to our 'questionable' magic choices so as to better take advantage of our 4 points. For a single rank down in Necromancy, we get expertise in Life Magic, which we can use to power up any other type of magic we have. Plus, Life or Blood Magic means we can pull off noble sacrifices if necessary, using our own blood and pain to power up whatever. Or allowing the Hero a chance to power a significant artifact by contributing some blood.
 
I think we should avoid Necromancy and Life magic, because frankly they're almost universally reviled as evil (in pretty much any story). At least for necromancy, there might be some leeway for bloodmagic, but it's still pretty low.

Curses has been used by goody people at least some of the time.

Important thing is that we don't have to use all our points, and we should also specialize in magical schools instead of picking everything up.
 
But we don't need curses if we have transmutation. And we seriously can't pass up the utility of high necromancy given our haunted castle. Plus, blood magic can be used to power up not just necromancy, but the stuff we're actually expert in, like enchantment, divination, and hopefully transmutation. I'm hoping we can go for a kinda shamanistic vibe where we use the power of self sacrifice to peer beyond the veil and keep the balance between living and dead, between nature and civilisation kinda thing. Mercedes Lackey has written several stories where Blood Magic is not necessarily a bad thing so long as you're willing to bleed yourself.
 
Does anyone remember evil witch tropes where the evil witch cannot be killed / comes back from death?
 
Kai Merah said:
But we don't need curses if we have transmutation. And we seriously can't pass up the utility of high necromancy given our haunted castle. Plus, blood magic can be used to power up not just necromancy, but the stuff we're actually expert in, like enchantment, divination, and hopefully transmutation. I'm hoping we can go for a kinda shamanistic vibe where we use the power of self sacrifice to peer beyond the veil and keep the balance between living and dead, between nature and civilisation kinda thing. Mercedes Lackey has written several stories where Blood Magic is not necessarily a bad thing so long as you're willing to bleed yourself.
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The point isn't the usefulness, the point is that story tropes tend to have those as EVIL!
 
Kai Merah said:
But we don't need curses if we have transmutation. And we seriously can't pass up the utility of high necromancy given our haunted castle. Plus, blood magic can be used to power up not just necromancy, but the stuff we're actually expert in, like enchantment, divination, and hopefully transmutation. I'm hoping we can go for a kinda shamanistic vibe where we use the power of self sacrifice to peer beyond the veil and keep the balance between living and dead, between nature and civilisation kinda thing. Mercedes Lackey has written several stories where Blood Magic is not necessarily a bad thing so long as you're willing to bleed yourself.
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Shard said:
The point isn't the usefulness, the point is that story tropes tend to have those as EVIL!
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What Shard said. If I may quote:

Alivaril said:
Blood Magic. This school of magic feeds off suffering, pain, and death in order to produce raw magical power. Always be sure to wash your hands before and each sacrifice; an awful lot of animals are disease-ridden little pests.
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Blood magic is a bit of a misnomer here. As the actual name (LIFE Magic) suggests, this school feeds off the energies of life, most specifically the painful loss of it. We likely won't be able to just slash our palms to boost our spells. To get any sort of real power increase, we'll need to kill. Not only kill, but kill PAINFULLY. Sure, we might be able to pull a 'cast-from-hitpoints' thing, but we'd probably be talking about rituals of incredible pain where we lose whole years of our life. There are better things we can spend points on than something that will require us to kill others or slowly kill ourself just to boost our already-impressive magic.

As a further note, Curses and Transmutation are fundamentally different in a few ways. First, Curses are permanent by default. Only the most powerful Transmutations have a long duration. Second, Curses have a built-in escape clause, while Transmutations can only be canceled by other casters. Third, Curses can affect an entire area, while Transmutation is (presumably) limited to single targets.

Or, to give an example:

Transmutation said:
"You have insulted me! I now turn you into a common household object!"
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Curse said:
"You have insulted me! I now turn the occupants of your entire castle into common household objects and you into a terrifying beast until such time as you earn the love of someone pure of heart!"
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Of the two, Curses are far more useful and powerful. Though a bit sketchier than normal Transfiguration, as the above example shows they can be definitely be used by 'good' characters in stories.

Shard said:
I think we should avoid Necromancy and Life magic, because frankly they're almost universally reviled as evil (in pretty much any story). At least for necromancy, there might be some leeway for bloodmagic, but it's still pretty low.

Curses has been used by goody people at least some of the time.

Important thing is that we don't have to use all our points, and we should also specialize in magical schools instead of picking everything up.
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Well, they're all considered evil in one way or another, but those two schools do have the worst PR it's true. Curses have been used by 'good' characters, usually those who bestow secret tests of character and punish the ones who fail.

I also agree that specialization is probably a better idea than trying to grab a little bit of everything.
 
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chocolote12 said:
Except those usually get tricked into having to marry a clever farmer or something? That doesn't sound like a good end.
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Hey! What have you got against farmers? Money and power aren't everything, you know. ;)

SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
[x] Plan Galadriel

[x] Politics (1)
[x] Logistics (1)
[x] Haggling (1)

[x] Divination
-[x] Master (3)
[x] Enchantment
-[x] Expert (3.5)
[x] Transmutation
-[x] Expert (2.5)
[x] Glamour
-[x] Master (4)

[x] Necromancy
-[x] Master (3.5)
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Sync, I love the plan you've laid out, but after hearing Shard's arguements against Necromancy (mostly that it gives us terrible PR) I think I'd like to request we change it to Curses instead. The idea of a Glamour/Curse combo to become the 'mysterious crone' who bestows tests of character and punishes those who fail seems to me to be the best route we could take.

In stories lots of noble kings go into their kingdoms in disguise to reward the just and rebuke the guilty, so we have a proven non-villainous Echo to follow. While the idea of a spirit-talker is a good one, we've already been told the peasantry universally considers Necromancy to be a sign of EVIL(tm)​, so we'll have a much harder time getting that instead of a "Evil Lady of the Dead" Echo.

Switch to Curses and you have my vote.

EDIT: Crap, doublepost. Sorry everyone, my bad.
 
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Each of the 'evil' schools can be easily subverted by the echo; Curses seems like the one for which that's easiest to counter.
 
Vote Tally : Original - Fantasy - Extrication, or: Tricking Fate | Page 7 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.5

[x] Plan Galadriel
[x] Politics (1)
[x] Logistics (1)
[x] Haggling (1)
[x] Divination
-[x] Master (3)
[x] Enchantment
-[x] Expert (3.5)
[x] Transmutation
-[x] Expert (2.5)
[x] Glamour
-[x] Master (4)
[x] Necromancy
-[x] Master (3.5)
No. of Votes: 6
Plan: ◈Galadriel
Kshail
pedanterrific
sainen
Skjadir
SynchronizedWritersBlock
Vebyast

[x] Plan Odd Wisdom
[x] Politics (1)
[x] Logistics (1)
[x] Swordplay (2)
[x] Divination
-[x] Master (3)
[x] Enchantment
-[x] Master (5.5)
[x] Blasting
-[x] Novice (1.5)
[x] Transmutation
-[x] Competent (2)
[x] Necromancy
-[x] Expert (2.5)
[x] Curses
-[x] Novice (1.5)
No. of Votes: 2
Plan: ◈Odd Wisdom
Citino
Malcolm Reynolds

[X]Plan Fishing Queen
-[X]Food Preparation
-[X]Cooking
-[X]Logistics
-[X]Politics
-[X]Haggling
-[X]Conjuration
--[X]Master
-[X]Life Magic
--[X]Master
-[X]Curses
--[X]Master
-[X]Necromancy
--[X]Competent
-[X]Divination
--[X]Master
No. of Votes: 1
Plan: ◈Fishing Queen
AbZHz101

[X] Plan Quiet Sorceress
[X] Food Preparation (1)
[X] Cooking (1)
[X] Logistics (1)
[X] Politics (1)
[X] Divination
-[X] Master (3)
[X] Transmutation
-[X] Master (3.5)
[X] Enchantment
-[X] Master (5.5)
[X] Curses
-[X] Master(3.5)
No. of Votes: 1
Plan: ◈Quiet Sorceress
Shard

[X] Plan 'Evil' Artemis
[X] Food Preparation (1)
[X] Cooking (1)
[X] Logistics (1)
[X] Politics (1)
[X] Cleanup (1)
[X] Haggling (1)
[X] Archery (2)
[X] Divination
-[X] Master (3)
[X] Transmutation
-[X] Expert (2.5)
[X] Blasting
-[X] Expert (2.5)
[X] Necromancy
-[X] Novice (1.5)
[X] Curses
-[X] Expert (2.5)
No. of Votes: 1
Plan: ◈'Evil' Artemis
AramilOniasha

[X] Plan Queen of Mysteries, shaman style
[X] Politics (1)
[X] Logistics (1)
[X] Divination
-[X] Master (3)
[X] Enchantment
-[X] Master (5.5)
[X] Life Magic
-[X] Master (2.5)
[X] Necromancy
-[X] Master (3.5)
[X] Curses
-[X] Master (3.5)
No. of Votes: 1
Plan: ◈Queen of Mysteries, shaman style
Erehwon

[X]Plan fae nobility
[X] Transmutation
-[X] Master (3.5)
[X] Glamour
-[X] Master (4)
[X] Enchantment
-[X] Master (5.5)
[X] Curses
-[X] Master (3.5)
[X] Haggling (1)
No. of Votes: 1
Plan: ◈fae nobility
DreamerGhost

[X]Plan Sunandshadow: Master Transmutation and Life Magic
[X] Food Preparation (1)
[X] Cooking (1)
[X] Logistics (1)
[X] Politics (1)
[X] Cleanup (1)
[X] Haggling (1)
[X] Divination
-[X] Expert (2.5)
[X] Transmutation
-[X] Master (3.5)
[X] Blasting
-[X] Expert (2.5)
[X] Life Magic
-[X] Master (2.5)
[X] Conjuration
-[X] Expert (3)
No. of Votes: 1
Plan: ◈Sunandshadow: Master Transmutation and Life Magic
sunandshadow

[x] Plan Do Not Meddle In The Affairs Of Wizards
[x] Politics (1)
[x] Logistics (1)
[x] Haggling (1)
[x] Swordplay (2)
[x] Divination
-[x] Master (3)
[x] Enchantment
-[x] Expert (3.5)
[x] Blasting
-[x] Competent (2)
[x] Glamour
-[x] Competent (2.5)
[x] Necromancy
-[x] Master (3.5)
No. of Votes: 1
Plan: ◈Do Not Meddle In The Affairs Of Wizards
veekie

[X] Plan Wrench Wench of the Seven Hells (Heavens?)
[X] Food Preparation (1)
[X] Cooking (1)
[X] Logistics (1)
[X] Politics (1)
[X] Cleanup (1)
[X] Haggling (1)
[X] Conjuration
-[X] Master (4)
[X] Enchanting
-[X] Master (5.5)
No. of Votes: 1
Plan: ◈Wrench Wench of the Seven Hells (Heavens?)
Space Multiply

[x] Plan (Mostly) Galadriel
[x] Politics (1)
[x] Logistics (1)
[x] Haggling (1)
[x] Divination
-[x] Master (3)
[x] Enchantment
-[x] Expert (3.5)
[x] Transmutation
-[x] Master (3.5)
[x] Glamour
-[x] Expert (3)
[x] Life Magic
-[x] Expert (1.5)
[x] Necromancy
-[x] Expert (2.5)
No. of Votes: 1
Plan: ◈(Mostly) Galadriel
Kai Merah

[X] Plan Independent Scholar of Unfortunate Magics and how different beings perceive the world
No. of Votes: 1
Plan: ◈Independent Scholar of Unfortunate Magics and how different beings perceive the world
Novus Ordo Mundi

[X] Plan Blasty Chef
-[X] Food Preparation (1)
-[X] Cooking (1)
-[X] Logistics (1)
-[X] Cleanup (1)
-[X] Archery (2)
-[X] Transmutation
--[X] Competent (2)
-[X] Blasting
--[X] Expert (2.5)
-[X] Enchantment
--[X] Novice (2.5)
-[X] Curses
--[X] Competent (2)
[X] Necromancy
-[X] Competent (2)
No. of Votes: 1
Nathaniel Wolff

[X] Logistics (1)
[X] Divination
-[X] Master (3)
[X] Necromancy
-[X] Master (3.5)
[X] Glamour
-[X] Master (4)
[X] Enchantment
-[X] Master (5.5)
[X] Life Magic
-[X] Competent (1)
No. of Votes: 1
boonerunner

[X] Logistics (1)
[X] Divination
-[X] Master (3)
[X] Glamour
-[X] Master (4)
[X] Enchantment
-[X] Master (5.5)
[X] Necromancy
-[X] Master (3.5)
[X] Cleanup (1)
No. of Votes: 1
NemoMarx

[X] Plan Independent Scholar of Unfortunate Magics and how different beings perceive the world, otherwise known as a Magical Scientist of Psychology and other Mysteries
No. of Votes: 1
Pyro Hawk

[X] Logistics (1)
[X] Politics (1)
[X] Haggling (1)
[X] Divination
-[X] Master (3)
[X] Glamour
-[X] Expert (3)
[X] Transmutation
-[X] Expert (2.5)
[X] Blasting
-[X] Competent (2)
[X] Enchantment
-[X] Novice (2.5)
[X] Necromancy
-[X] Master (3.5)
[X] Food Prep (1)
[X] Cooking (1)
[X] Cleanup(1)
[X] Divination
-[X] Master (3)
[X] Enchantment
-[X] Competent (3)
[X] Transmutation
-[X] Master (3.5)
[X] Blasting
-[X] Master (3.5)
[X] Conjuration
-[X] Master (4)
No. of Votes: 1
Kaelor

[x] Plan Odd Wisdom
[x] Politics (1)
[x] Logistics (1)
[x] Swordplay (2)
[x] Divination
-[x] Master (3)
[x] Enchantment
-[x] Master (5.5)
[x] Blasting
-[x] Novice (1.5)
[x] Transmutation
-[x] Competent (2)
[x] Necromancy
-[x] Expert (2.5)
[x] Curses
-[x] Novice (1.5)
[x] Haggling (1)
[x] Divination
-[x] Master (3)
[x] Enchantment
-[x] Master (5.5)
[x] Blasting
-[x] Competent (2)
[x] Transmutation
-[x] Competent (2)
[x] Necromancy
-[x] Master (3.5)
[x] Life Magic
-[x] Competent (1)
No. of Votes: 1
giodan

[X] Divination
-[x] Master (3)
[X] Curses
-[x] Master (3.5)
No. of Votes: 1
fictionfan

[X] Plan Blasty Chef
-[X] Food Preparation (1)
-[X] Cooking (1)
-[X] Logistics (1)
-[X] Cleanup (1)
-[X] Archery (2)
-[X] Transmutation
--[X] Competent (2)
-[X] Blasting
--[X] Expert (2.5)
-[X] Enchantment
--[X] Novice (2.5)
-[X] Curses
--[X] Competent (2)
No. of Votes: 0
Plan: ◈Blasty Chef

[X] Plan Mal
[X] Politics (1)
[X] Logistics (1)
[X] Divination
-[X] Master (3)
[X] Glamour
-[X] Master (4)
[X] Transmutation
-[X] Master (3.5)
[X] Blasting
-[X] Master (3.5)
[X] Necromancy
-[X] Master (3.5)
No. of Votes: 0
Plan: ◈Mal

[X] Plan Baba Yaga
[X] Food Preparation (1)
[X] Cooking (1)
[X] Haggling (1)
[X] Divination
-[X] Master (3)
[X] Transmutation
-[X] Master (3.5)
[X] Enchantment
-[X] Expert (3.5)
[X] Necromancy
-[X] Master (3.5)
[X] Curses
-[X] Master (3.5)
No. of Votes: 0
Plan: ◈Baba Yaga

[X] Plan Necro
[X] Cooking (1)
[X] Logistics (1)
[X] Politics (1)
[X] Cleanup (1)
[X] Enchantment
-[X] Master (5.5)
[X] Divination
-[X] Master (3.0)
[X] Blasting
-[X] Master (3.5)
[X] Necromancy
-[X] Master (3.5)
No. of Votes: 0
Plan: ◈Necro

[X] Plan Independent Scholar of Unfortunate Magics and how different beings perceive the world, otherwise known as a Magical Scientist of Psychology and other Mysteries
[X] Food Preparation (1)
[X] Cooking (1)
[X] Logistics (1)
[X] Politics (1)
[X] Cleanup (1)
[X] Archery (2)
[X] Glamour
-[X] Expert (3)
[X] Life Magic
-[X] Master (2.5)
[X] Necromancy
-[X] Master (3.5)
[X] Conjuration
-[X] Master (4)
No. of Votes: 0
Plan: ◈『i』Independent Scholar of Unfortunate Magics and how different beings perceive the world, otherwise known as a Magical Scientist of Psychology and other Mysteries『/i』

Total No. of Voters: 25
 
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Part 1: Evil Plotting
  • Threadmarks
    • [x] Plan Galadriel
    [x] Politics (1)
    [x] Logistics (1)
    [x] Haggling (1)
    [x] Divination
    -[x] Master (3)
    [x] Enchantment
    -[x] Expert (3.5)
    [x] Transmutation
    -[x] Expert (2.5)
    [x] Glamour
    -[x] Master (4)
    [x] Necromancy
    -[x] Master (3.5)

    Once upon a time...

    Nope.

    You toss the offending book at the opposite wall, scowling at it and crossing your arms. When that little annoyance had popped up by your bedside table while you had no memory of putting it there, you'd assumed that it was given to you by one of the resident ghosts. Apparently not; they know better than to bother you with trivial nonsense when you're going through a tough patch.

    The Echo is getting less and less subtle as time goes on. Recently, you've started to feel the urge to try and resurrect your dead aunt despite knowing how futile it would be. Knowing her, she's probably taking full advantage of the "no pain" part of the afterlife to get monstrously drunk without ever needing to suffer from a hangover. Lucky old hag.

    The messages you've been receiving have gotten increasingly annoying. Some of them even demanded a reply of some sort instead of accepting the lack of answer as what it really is: an outright rejection. Still, Echoes rarely control every aspect of their participants, and a few of them have gotten rather insulting. As you seem to have been given the role of an evil sorceress, this provides a wonderful opportunity for you to change which Echo you're dealing with. Being the primary antagonist instead of a minor character gives you quite a bit of leverage, should you choose to exercise it.

    Still, what to do? The traditional response to such insults would be to head over and curse either the senders or their first-born children, but you never really devoted very much time toward learning how to curse people. Plus, you're not even sure that would really work. It might discharge some of the expectation surrounding you, but those who curse wrongdoers tend to be mere messengers instead of the focus of a story.

    Perhaps you could raise deceased loved ones and have them harass those who insulted you? If you just sicced them with little or no instruction, you'd run into the earlier problem of being a messenger, but if you had them report back periodically...

    Actually, you don't know what would happen if you tried that. You'd be pitting multiple strong Echoes against one another while still remaining within their boundaries. Perhaps your victim would learn lessons of respect while going on a quest to free their loved ones from you? Of course, you'll need to figure out some precise method of making sure you don't die at the very end of the Echo; freed spirits tend to be a bit vengeful, and if an Echo is backing them up, they become disproportionately powerful and dangerous.

    Finding some nearby kingdom with an unmarried ruler? With the right use of glamour, you could set yourself up as an adviser, evil spouse, or something else appropriately diabolical. As long as you act appropriately evil for the duration, you're about 80% sure the Echo will leave your mind more-or-less alone. The trick would be to find an Echo which lets you merely escape with your diabolical plans "foiled" instead of outright killing you.

    Aggressive territory expansion? You're positive the related Echoes would be big enough to free you upon completion and using undead would make sure nobody was killed in the conflict, only injured and inconvenienced. In all likelihood, your neighbors would unite to take you down. As usual, the tricky part would be to make sure you survive the final act.

    Fighting your background? While it usually applies to children of demons and the like, perhaps not wanting to deal with an Echo as an evil sorceress would be enough. If you could make it stick, you'd probably feel urges to "fight" things you'd never wanted to do before, but at least you'd have a low chance of death. Probably. You might have the bad luck of attracting one with "death=redemption."


    [] Look into the backgrounds of all the people who insulted you.
    -[] If any of them have deceased loved ones, turn them into ghosts and task them with harassing their erring friend/lover/family member/etc.
    --[] Explain your predicament to them and ask for their help. The Echo might force them to forget, but perhaps you could remind them every time they come back?
    --[] Make sure their temporary forms are durable and difficult to exorcise. That would be a rather anticlimactic end which would leave you right back where you started.

    [] Research those ruling near your own little domain.
    -[] Using divination.
    -[] Ask for volunteers from the castle ghosts, then task any who step forward with spying on nearby rulers.

    [] Begin the long process of raising an undead horde...
    -[] ...Then attack your strongest neighbor.
    -[] ...Then attack the weakest of the nations adjacent to your territory.
    -[] Then sit back and wait.

    [] Appoint a regent to keep the place intact in your absence, then temporarily cut ties with your home.
    -[] Start searching for an appropriate area practically begging for a hero. While you can't fill that role right now, perhaps you could attach yourself to the party of one.
    --[] Just use divination to look for an appropriate hero instead of searching on foot or via ghostly scouts.
    --[] Use glamour to make yourself look like a man. You don't want to have an Echo mess with your love life.

    [] Write-in


    Most IRL cultural (folk?) tales are Echoes, but not all Echoes were IRL folk tales.
     
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  • Threadmarks
    • Alivaril said:
    The traditional response to such insults would be to head over and curse either the senders or their first-born children, but you never really devoted very much time toward learning how to curse people. Plus, you're not even sure that would really work. It might discharge some of the expectation surrounding you, but those who curse wrongdoers tend to be mere messengers instead of the focus of a story.
    Click to expand...
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    My first thought here is Maleficent. Are we not trying to dodge the evil sorceress role?
     
    [X] Appoint a regent to keep the place intact in your absence, then temporarily cut ties with your home.
    -[X] Start searching for an appropriate area practically begging for a hero. While you can't fill that role right now, perhaps you could attach yourself to the party of one.

    Fuck this shit; we are out.
     
    [x] Wait, that's not right. Hauntings? Undead armies? "Necromancy" is an industrial technology and a way to help the vitally challenged, not a weapon.
    [x] Express your doubts to the princess.
     
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    [X] Appoint a regent to keep the place intact in your absence, then temporarily cut ties with your home.
    -[X] Start searching for an appropriate area practically begging for a hero. While you can't fill that role right now, perhaps you could attach yourself to the party of one.
     
    I see that the mental effects of this Echo have already kicked in hard. This character is already 75% of the way to being the villain, contrasting dramatically with her intro blurb.
     
    [X] Appoint a regent to keep the place intact in your absence, then temporarily cut ties with your home.
    -[X] Start searching for an appropriate area practically begging for a hero. While you can't fill that role right now, perhaps you could attach yourself to the party of one.
     
    [X] Look into the backgrounds of all the people who insulted you.
    -[X] If any of them have deceased loved ones, turn them into ghosts and task them with annoying thier erring friend/lover/family member/etc.
    --[X] Explain your predicament to them and ask for their help. The Echo might force them to forget, but perhaps you could remind them every time they come back?
    --[X] Make sure their temporary forms are durable and difficult to exorcise. That would be a rather anticlimactic end which would leave you right back where you started.

    [X] Research those ruling near your own little domain.
    -[X] Ask for volunteers from the castle ghosts, then task any who step forward with being diplomats with the neighboring rulers.

    For those who want to leave, remember Iris currently lacks any sort of skill to survive on her own outside the castle. She cannot cook, clean, hunt or do anything that is involved in taking care of herself other than haggling.

    @Alivaril Does she even have a name?
     
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