Rihaku
The Internet
I mean actually acquiring the sword, which is no small feat!
[Exalted, ?] Most High
- Thread starter Rihaku
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- exalted (white wolf)
I mean actually acquiring the sword, which is no small feat!
It's a bit frustrating to see so many blank votes, when Ice Dragon is actually better for the Usurpation plot as it's been described. Moon is the lynchpin of the plan; if she doesn't survive, we can't put her on the Throne. Since we can only secure so many invitations, our force projection is limited, unless we want to gamble and try sneaking people in, which leaves Luseng undefended and will likely ruin the element of surprise. With that in mind, we have to make the most of the assets available to us. Empowering Moon is more beneficial than bringing a more specialized combat construct, for the purposes of this situation.
Do you guys really want Moon throwing down with elder Dragon-Bloods without the benefit of a perfect defense? Keep in mind that if she falls, this entire coup will have been for nothing, and we'll have to take the throne ourselves, making things... messy, to say the least. There'll be rebellions, the Faith will lose its collective shit at seeing an Anathema on the throne, all that good stuff... Ice Dragon lets Moon survive, contribute materially to the assassination effort, and lets her demonstrate power worthy of Mela reborn right out of the starting gate.
It's a skillset that's fitting for her as a person, too, given the circumstances of her Exaltation and personal history, far more thematically fitting than making a Terminator. Magitech is supposed to be rare in 3E, and I just don't like the idea of spitting out an endless series of combat constructs. It makes them less unique and interesting, no longer the crown jewel of a Direction, but simply one in a series, custom-built for a purpose. The upcoming update feels like it should largely be centered around sacrifice; draining the Pole of Air, sacrificing the old to make way for the new, and even sacrificing Moon to make way for Mela, in a way. Offering up some of Luseng's prosperity on that same altar, in the hopes of making a better future, would make for a better and more interesting story than simply having an addendum saying 'oh, we took bits of Ragmar and made a T1000'.
Remember, Sublime doesn't give her immediate power, it lets her potentially develop custom Solar-tier Charms in a handful of abilities. Only one of these is actually applicable to combat, and that's Thrown. It is a long term boost, and she has to live to actualize its potential. Since she is both important to our plans and to Ulyssian on an emotional level, I would prefer to maximize the odds of her survival, especially since we seem to be embarking on an enormously risky venture.
Also, Endbringer-tier cryokinesis > trout. Just saying. And yes, I dare mock the trout.
Do you guys really want Moon throwing down with elder Dragon-Bloods without the benefit of a perfect defense? Keep in mind that if she falls, this entire coup will have been for nothing, and we'll have to take the throne ourselves, making things... messy, to say the least. There'll be rebellions, the Faith will lose its collective shit at seeing an Anathema on the throne, all that good stuff... Ice Dragon lets Moon survive, contribute materially to the assassination effort, and lets her demonstrate power worthy of Mela reborn right out of the starting gate.
It's a skillset that's fitting for her as a person, too, given the circumstances of her Exaltation and personal history, far more thematically fitting than making a Terminator. Magitech is supposed to be rare in 3E, and I just don't like the idea of spitting out an endless series of combat constructs. It makes them less unique and interesting, no longer the crown jewel of a Direction, but simply one in a series, custom-built for a purpose. The upcoming update feels like it should largely be centered around sacrifice; draining the Pole of Air, sacrificing the old to make way for the new, and even sacrificing Moon to make way for Mela, in a way. Offering up some of Luseng's prosperity on that same altar, in the hopes of making a better future, would make for a better and more interesting story than simply having an addendum saying 'oh, we took bits of Ragmar and made a T1000'.
Remember, Sublime doesn't give her immediate power, it lets her potentially develop custom Solar-tier Charms in a handful of abilities. Only one of these is actually applicable to combat, and that's Thrown. It is a long term boost, and she has to live to actualize its potential. Since she is both important to our plans and to Ulyssian on an emotional level, I would prefer to maximize the odds of her survival, especially since we seem to be embarking on an enormously risky venture.
Also, Endbringer-tier cryokinesis > trout. Just saying. And yes, I dare mock the trout.
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Windlass
A Windy Lass
- Location
- Wherever the wind is blowing
Holy wall of text, Batman.Orm Embar" said:
Aaaaanyway, it just occurred to me that we can't make a T1000 out of bits of Ragmar. Because there are no bits of Ragmar. Literally none. We killed him so hard his skin follicles exploded in golden light.
There are no mechanical penalties, I know that. I'm just arguing from the standpoint of someone trying to preserve the feel of the setting. It's an inherently subjective thing, although 3E is trying to shy away from magitech in favor of retaining the legendary feel of the setting.
The same pretext used to justify her reincarnation will also serve to explain away her powers over ice; she's here because of the climate problems (this is literally true, in an ironic sort of way), so naturally she gave herself powers to combat global warming. The jig isn't up on Mela, not by any means, because there is no jig. That's the beauty of the gambit; the best lies are just carefully presented truths. She is Mela, as truly as anyone can be, beyond even Anys. Literally by existing, she impresses the immaculate fact that she is Mela on the minds of any and all witnesses.
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- Location
- Fabulously Rainbow Ireland
Don't care, besides she'll have US and the consort AND the facewrecker to protect her, plus I WANT to mass produce more constructs to both crush our enemies/rule our territories AND eventually use to create a super-powerful primordial daughteru so we can have adorable family scenes along with father-daughter(s) bonding time smashing our enemies together.
As I pointed out, she will have the potential to develop these things. Sublime is a long-term development plan, and the plan requires immediate action. As for us protecting her, the surest protection is possessing a Perfect Defense of her own. That, and having enough power to negate the need for such overbearing ministrations. Ulyssian and whatever construct he brings are going to be very busy dealing with the assembled House Heads and their retinue. There may not be time for that; we need all the power we can get, and every ounce of surprise we can eke out of the situation.
Oh, and if Vitaris is correct, we can't even make the so-called facewrecker, because Ragmar is not in any state to be used as Working components.
- Location
- Fabulously Rainbow Ireland
Dude have you SEEN us lately? Do you really think we can't blenderize some bitches before they can even BEGIN to harm one hair on Moon's head? We can just pull that EVERYTHING IS SWORD trick we did to annihilate that Raksha army as a first strike and begin mopping up the rest and again WHY do you think we'd have Moon with us there instead of safe back in Luseng/on the boat where we can just teleport back to grab her when we need "Mela"?
You're severely underestimating Mnemon if you think she hasn't prepared countermeasures for the possible fallout of having a desperate Solar backed into a corner. These men and women are the Blood of the Dragon, not some hobgoblin horde. Do not make the mistake of believing Ulyssian to be invincible, merely because we've been lucky in the past. This isn't a duel or an Immaculate trial, they will outnumber us to an enormous degree and be fighting for their lives, their families, and the soul of the greatest nation in all the world on prepared ground. If they get even a whiff of treachery (like, say, by trying to sneak in assassins or Mnemon detecting the existence of a Trojan construct), we may well be up shit creek without a paddle.
... Because she needs to take the Throne. That is, literally, the purpose of this coup. We want to put her on the Throne, so she has to be there to sit on the damned thing. The teleportation has a cap of Essence X 10 miles, so that won't work, and a smooth transition of authority is necessary to avoid widespread anarchy. Also, because it's kind of traditional to ascend to the seat over the corpses of the other aspirants, and honestly? We might need her help, if she goes Ice Dragon.
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Rihaku
The Internet
If you guys are truly sufficiently paranoid, it may be unwise for any but Ulyssian himself to go to the meeting, as no one else is as resistant to obscure forms of attack as he is. Only he has the Sable Scales and their environmental / poison / disease defenses, plus the Psyche defense of Ambition and Phoenix Renewal Tactic. Of course, the Celestine is the second most resistant, being made as she is of pure jade.
Considering how this does smell of a potential trap set up by Anys who you did mention could potentially try to poison us and now has access to all of Hell's exotic shit...
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That just means that we should instead seduce his sister to the Solar side, and elevate her to being a nigh ageless super fire Dragonblood.
Then she can tell him that the real Hessiah is totes cool with Uly.
Funny comments aside, I'd prefer we do workings to boost Ulyssians general/non combat/social prowess and try for a diplomatic solution, but it doesn't look like its worth the argument with the rest of the threads direction.
- Location
- USA
so, are you referring to the theory that depleting the pole would break the sword... or just a general reference to its long years of disuse?
Well, we had an option for that now, we just chose not to
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Yes. /Wildbow
- Location
- The end of all things
While this is a reasonably clever idea, it also has a decent chance of backfiring horribly. Samea is an experienced and well-connected Solar Sorcerer. She will immediately recognize the unnaturalness of events and inquire after details either through her connections to the Elemental Court of Air or by sending an appropriate Second Circle Demon, construct, or even herself to investigate. Recognizing the events as the result of Solar Circle Sorcery would not exactly be hard, for there is precious little else that can do such a thing. It also cuts the list of suspects to a very short one, of which Ulyssian is by far the most likely.
In the original plan, PoTC would be used to minimize the negative effects across the north. Here, it would be used to accentuate some in an effort to distract the Bull. This might work, but it might also enrage the Bull, making him resolve to stop Ulyssian both for revenge and for the good of Creation.
The Bull may decide to stop Ulyssian before he does something even more reckless; to stop Ulyssian even at the cost of allowing his own people to suffer. I'm not sure he'd be wrong to do so. I think people are underestimating how bad this will look. I may have joked about draining the other four poles, but it is the logical next step. Why stop at one Immaculate Dragon when you could have all five? Even if the Bull doesn't act now, he's unlikely to forgive or to forget.
Needless to say, this could be really bad if we are otherwise occupied at the time, perhaps with attempting to control the Realm. In the worst case scenario, we have to deal of the Bull's invasion being backed by indirect or even direct support from powerful Elemental Lords seeking revenge.
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- Location
- Southern Virginia
If the Bull wants to act against the Prophecy and eat the penalties, while allowing the Fae to eat his Icewalker population base, so be it. It will make it a lot easier to stomp him into the ground when we have control of the Realm. I think you're drastically overestimating the cohesion and dutifulness of the Elemental courts, too, especially since Elementals of opposing alignments would be all too happy to see the Air Elementals fucked up.
- Location
- The end of all things
Oh, in some ways it's as much of an opportunity as a problem. It just depends on how much you care about Luseng and how much risk you're willing to take. There is also the the possibility that they respond to escalation with further escalation before they return home. The Bull's circle is likely perfectly capable of wiping Luseng from the map personally if Ulyssian isn't there. Normally there would be no reason to, but given sufficient provocation...
The Fire Elementals will have no problems with us, true, but they're not going to actively help us or anything. The Air Elemental courts are anything but united, but I could see the Bull cajoling a number of them to his side with promises of revenge, succor through these dark times, and jade. There is much jade in Luseng.
The Fire Elementals will have no problems with us, true, but they're not going to actively help us or anything. The Air Elemental courts are anything but united, but I could see the Bull cajoling a number of them to his side with promises of revenge, succor through these dark times, and jade. There is much jade in Luseng.
- Location
- USA
Nobody said he would, they said that he would have an axe to grind against us if we do that. Yes he will go away right now, but we can forget about amicable working with him, or anyone from his circle. Not to mention whatever political damage he might do with the knowledge we were behind the whole thing
- Location
- USA
1. People were betting that ragmar was tolerated as useful rather than actually liked. unleashed the fae on my lands is a bit more than that.
2. There is still the matter of the rest of the solaroid circle
3. There is still the political issues he can cause us. "this dude killed my lunar spy" just doesn't hold the same oomph of an accusation as "this dude disabled one of the 5 pillars of creation"
Meh, we can take them
How is he going to prove it and who will believe him? To most people he's a famous Anathema.
- Location
- USA
we would prefer not to kill them
People have been arguing that his sorcerer would be able to link it to us, and the realm is not the only ones out there, there are many independent-ish celestials running around and it makes us look bad to them all, not to mention heaven itself.
I'd quite like to kill them, actually.
