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[Exalted, ?] Most High

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Pearl calls herself a "monster" because of her BRAINWASHING and all the horrible things she remembers doing not because she's ok with that stuff (her saying we'd be "monsters" together sounded more like an affirmation of loyalty/compansionship to us) and we made that "pact" with the infernals because we at least partially we're trying to turn them and explaining how the Yozi would trample them into the dirt without a care (also because Ayala might likely be our little sisters reincarnation and we can't take the chance she isn't)

As for Moon you DO remember she really loves her heroic stories and such so I think she'd probably be quite a bit disappointed that we'd ally with someone so obviously (at least outwardly) evil and cruel?
 
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Yeah we REALLY need some more Xp especially if we need to flash buy something and if we really need a Sorceror/Necromance we just need to focus more on turning Ayala and Fei to our side plus we can always choose sorcery ourself as well while Lily can give us some raw Charisma and Solar Presence charms (which would probably help us with turning Ayala and Fei).
 
1986ctcel said:
Yeah we REALLY need some more Xp especially if we need to flash buy something and if we really need a Sorceror/Necromance we just need to focus more on turning Ayala and Fei to our side plus we can always choose sorcery ourself as well while Lily can give us some raw Charisma and Solar Presence charms (which would probably help us with turning Ayala and Fei).
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Nonono, if we really need a Sorcerer/Arcane Worker we need to get to E5! Then its time for Optimal Magic from an Optimal Solar.
 
Well that's the thing : the Infernals are nominally supposed to bring out disaster, we didn't see them do anything of the sort, contrary to the guy there. Beside I don't think securing a sort of alliance based on a concern about Nihul safety would open up our friends to the idea that another dubious relation is a good idea. Especially when nothing force us to enter it.
 
1986ctcel said:
Pearl calls herself a "monster" because of her BRAINWASHING and all the horrible things she remembers doing not because she's ok with that stuff (her saying we'd be "monsters" together sounded more like an affirmation of loyalty/compansionship to us) and we made that "pact" with the infernals because we at least partially we're trying to turn them and explaining how the Yozi would trample them into the dirt without a care (also because Ayala might likely be our little sisters reincarnation and we can't take the chance she isn't)
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When asked about Pearl's nature, Rihaku said she was a monster. And the Seeds already understands the simple truth that the Titans are bad for the world, and shares our concerns with its nature. He wants what we want, his methods are just different. If we're willing to try and 'redeem' Fei Ling and Ayala, then I don't see how we can pass up this chance to steer the Seeds towards a better course, considering there's much less that needs to be changed when compared to the Infernals.
1986ctcel said:
As for Moon you DO remember she really loves her heroic stories and such so I think she'd probably be quite a bit disappointed that we'd ally with someone so obviously (at least outwardly) evil and cruel?
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Moon is also very smart, to a degree great enough to see past the common misconceptions that would blind people to the true nature of the Seeds' work.
1986ctcel said:
But Ayala is already on track to being a Solar Circle Sorceror given her own Odyssial-level work ethic which means we can save on Xp.
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I don't think she has that level of work ethic. Nobody does, save for Odyssial and Ambition's wielder.
Aloysius said:
Well that's the thing : the Infernals are nominally supposed to bring out disaster, we didn't see them do anything of the sort, contrary to the guy there. Beside I don't think securing a sort of alliance based on a concern about Nihul safety would open up our friends to the idea that another dubious relation is a good idea. Especially when nothing force us to enter it.
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Nilul was against making any kind of pact with them in the first place, she just wanted us to kill them or flee. The sentiment of the thread was that Solar tier allies were immensely valuable, so we should do this regardless of what she thought.
 
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1986ctcel said:
But Ayala is already on track to being a Solar Circle Sorceror given her own Odyssial-level work ethic which means we can save on Xp.
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Hm, saving on XP is efficient, but Orm raises a good point about Ulyssian's comparative growth rate. Plus, if the Sorcerer is an ally rather than the Optimal One himself, then that means said Optimal One will owe favors for workings or similar.

Also, I like the idea of Ulyssian mastering something that Odyssial never focused on. Granted that's because he was a Focused Machine, but the thematics appeal to me.
 
We'll probably want to pick up some Presence Charms down the road, simply because it's not that big of an investment from a mechanical standpoint. A handful of Charms can make us absurdly capable in one area of focus. Same thing with Sorcery, actually; just buying the initiation Charms isn't that expensive, and we would get a really epic training montage out of jumping from Peerless Beyond Sorcery to Peerless Sorceror.
 
Orm Embar said:
I don't think she has that level of work ethic. Nobody does, save for Odyssial and Ambition's wielder.
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She managed to self-initiate herself into sorcery AND create a talisman of fooling the senses of a 2nd circle Daeva at NINE YEARS OLD and OOC information from the Odyssey shows within a year she was a Solar Circle Sorceror already on track to create SUPER Dragon Bloods
 
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Honestly, this Delegate decsions seems more than a bit weird.
Choosing to Parley already somewhat ran into the issue that it requires Uly to turn his blade against his allies before he has the chance to gain IC information suggesting that Seeds has compatible enough values to even be a proper option for allying.

Parley gets around that by killing the witnesses and leaving open the option to just kill Seeds as well.
Delegate forces Uly into the alliance in order to remove the chance of Seeds allowing someone to escape before Uly actually knows anything about Seeds.

And the result of it all is that Seeds arguably profits more from this than we do, which is pretty concerning given how many people are having issues trusting him even OOC, and a kinder fate for the DBs by a metric that is subscribed to by Seeds, but apparently not a large number of readers and possibly not even Uly himself.
After all, if Odyssial really was responsible for how the Lethe and afterlife in general works right now, odds are he and therefor Uly as well does not in fact consider the current nature of death nearly as horrific and infinitely inferior to ghosthood as Seeds does.
Possibly a bit hypocritical give the lengths Ody goes through to prevent his own death, but who cares about that.

It's a good option if you want to forge closer ties with Seeds by giving him some shinies and agreeing with his philosophy, but I can't help but feel that would inevitably come back to bite us when we refuse to follow through with his philosophy at a later date due to moral qualms, at which point we might easily find ourselves regretting giving him the shiny as well.
 
Yeah. Do we really want to go straight into an alliance with him. I'm willing to parley to get info about the other Abyssals and The Gardener but we shouldn't go into an alliance until we see what're others have to offer.

The Shikari don't matter because their basically fucked no matter what option we make but we can potentially turn Void Scar and Sesus Maison and we do have stunts for it.

Also having another Solariod on our side would be a very good benefit. Especially since he's strong in something we don't have.
 
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Diller said:
Yeah. Do we really want to go straight into an alliance with him. I'm willing to parley to get info about the other Abyssals and The Gardener but we shouldn't go into an alliance until we see what're others have to offer.
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Hm, we'd render them unconscious first, and would probably remand them into the Seeds' custody after negotiations. I agree that just handing them over to him first thing is a bit too trusting of an act, considering we just met him.
 
Orm Embar said:
We'll probably want to pick up some Presence Charms down the road, simply because it's not that big of an investment from a mechanical standpoint. A handful of Charms can make us absurdly capable in one area of focus. Same thing with Sorcery, actually; just buying the initiation Charms isn't that expensive, and we would get a really epic training montage out of jumping from Peerless Beyond Sorcery to Peerless Sorceror.
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It's not quite that easy if you don't have the stats for it - you have to buy up the Attributes and Abilities first, which is a lot of XP that can't bypass training time, before you get to the good Charms.
 
After my initial pass-through of votes and arguments, it looks like the total arguments for Vengeance / hostility towards seeds / not allying with seeds are slightly stronger than total arguments for Parley + Delegate / allying with Seeds. This is just my brief first impression, though.
 
So, how do gods work in Creation? I know that jobs can determine power and you can go up and down in tiers over time. I have this thought about Uncle being a really old god...because it's Uncle. Is there an upward limit on Godly Lifespan? I'm probably going to work up an Omake about him doing his job back in the City, and I wanted to trawl the thread for information first.
 
Emerald Oracle said:
So, how do gods work in Creation? I know that jobs can determine power and you can go up and down in tiers over time. I have this thought about Uncle being a really old god...because it's Uncle. Is there an upward limit on Godly Lifespan? I'm probably going to work up an Omake about him doing his job back in the City, and I wanted to trawl the thread for information first.
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Nope, gods are immortal. Plenty of 'em remember the Time of Glory, though their lives were boring and sucked back then (or were too exciting). A lot of gods also have First Age mind sets - referring to a Solar by the bearer of his previous Exaltation, or assuming that a Solar and a Bronzd Faction assassin dueling is just a disagreement between the Chosen of the Sun and his advisor. Of course, gods which regularly interact with Creation are a bit more up to date on this, at least as far as knowing what the Immaculate Philosophy actually is.
 
meianmaru said:
Speaking about this, was there a 3E change so that mortals have always been able to learn Sorcery? No Solars needed later to rewrite the laws to allow that or anything?
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The real difference for this quest is the existence of human Sorcerers before the Primordial War. There was always an odd inconsistency here, though, unless Brigid discovered Sorcery in much the same way that Columbus discovered America.

Where was it ever stated that mortals couldn't use Sorcery before Salina? I don't think that this was actually the case. She just lessened the need for a tutor. The way she wanted to give everyone access to Solar Circle Sorcery was a different issue entirely, and I think the two get conflated.
Jorlem said:
In 3E, mortals can't be Sorcerers. Rather, when one becomes a Sorcerer, one stops being a mortal.
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One of the devs said this, but simply learning Sorcery does not change the way they are still tied to the mortal condition. It's the things that they tend do to themselves afterwards that distinguishes them.
 
Anasurimbor said:
The real difference for this quest is the existence of human Sorcerers before the Primordial War. There was always an odd inconsistency here, though, unless Brigid discovered Sorcery in much the same way that Columbus discovered America.

Where was it ever stated that mortals couldn't use Sorcery before Salina? I don't think that this was actually the case. She just lessened the need for a tutor. The way she wanted to give everyone access to Solar Circle Sorcery was a different issue entirely, and I think the two get conflated.

One of the devs said this, but simply learning Sorcery does not change the way they are still tied to the mortal condition. It's the things that they tend do to themselves afterwards that distinguishes them.
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Hm, I'm actually not clear on whether effects which target mortals would target mortal sorcerers. Presumably any right-thinking sorcerer would quickly self-modify to his : her preferred flavor of augmented individual. But what about before? Certainly they'd be likely to be a heroic mortal in any event, but nonetheless...
 
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